134 réponses à ce sujet

[Plaguemaster]

No combat system, dialogue, travel, magic or other aspects overhaul.

None of these aspects were overhauled in DA2 either. The changes made were paltry at best.

[Plaintiff]

Plaguemaster wrote...

No combat system, dialogue, travel, magic or other aspects overhaul.

None of these aspects were overhauled in DA2 either. The changes made were paltry at best.

Yes, if I were you, I would also cover my face in shame.

[batlin]

Plaintiff wrote...

Examples?

Rags to riches? Any GTA game, Slumdog Millionaire, the Great Gatsby, Memoirs of a Geisha, Harvest Moon, Fresh Prince of Bel-Air....

Framed narrative? Stand By Me, The Usual Suspects, Titanic, Fight Club, One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest, Don Quixote, Final Fantasy 10, Heavy Rain...

Episodic? Half Life, Tales of Monkey Island, Bone, Back to the Future: The Game...

Need more?

Modifié par batlin, 20 mars 2012 - 01:56 .

[Plaintiff]

batlin wrote...

Plaintiff wrote...

Examples?

Rags to riches? Any GTA game, Slumdog Millionaire, the Great Gatsby, Memoirs of a Geisha, Harvest Moon, Fresh Prince of Bel-Air....

Framed narrative? Stand By Me, The Usual Suspects, Titanic, Fight Club, One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest, Don Quixote, Final Fantasy 10, Heavy Rain...

Episodic? Half Life, Tales of Monkey Island, Bone, Back to the Future: The Game...

Need more?

You misunderstand. I need examples of all three of those elements combined in a single story. I thought that was what you were talking about.

If that's not what you meant, then your initial statement is just even more meaningless, like some jerk sitting at the back of a cinema shouting "OH YEAH, LIKE I'VE NEVER SEEN A MOVIE BEFORE".

If you're going to work by such incredibly broad parameters, then nothing can ever be innovative. I might as well say that Harry Potter is a rip-off of Lord of the Rings because they both have items that need to be destroyed in order to defeat a great evil, and they're both book series.

Modifié par Plaintiff, 20 mars 2012 - 02:17 .

[batlin]

Plaintiff wrote...

You misunderstand. I need examples of all three of those elements combined in a single story. I thought that was what you were talking about.

Ah. Well in that case, Citizen Kane, Slumdog Millionaire, and The Dresden Files. That's all i can think of off the top of my head.

If that's not what you meant, then your initial statement is just even more meaningless, like some jerk sitting at the back of a cinema shouting "OH YEAH, LIKE I'VE NEVER SEEN A MOVIE BEFORE".

If you're going to work by such incredibly broad parameters, then nothing can ever be innovative. I might as well say that Harry Potter is a rip-off of Lord of the Rings because they both have items that need to be destroyed in order to defeat a great evil, and they're both book series.

Bullcrap. Dragon Age 2 did nothing new even by your standards. No one is saying that Dragon Age 2 ripped off Citizen Kane, but that doesn't mean that what Dragon Age 2 did is innovative in the least. And there are plenty of examples of actual innovative video games. Mario 64 innovated 3D platforming. 3D platforming simply did not exist in any playable form before it. Same with Doom and FPSes. Portal's wormholes. Final fantasy for plot-driven RPGs. these games are examples of games with fundamental features that had not been seen before, hence why they are innovative. Name one funamental aspect of in Dragon Age 2 that had not already been done.

[Plaintiff]

batlin wrote...

Plaintiff wrote...

You misunderstand. I need examples of all three of those elements combined in a single story. I thought that was what you were talking about.

Ah. Well in that case, Citizen Kane, Slumdog Millionaire, and The Dresden Files. That's all i can think of off the top of my head.

But none of those are videogames, so one could, if they were so inclined, make the argument that DA2 was an innovative videogame. I am not making that argument, however. What I said was that DA2 departs from the standard formula of fantasy stories.

Bullcrap. Dragon Age 2 did nothing new even by your standards.

I never said it had. My posts in this thread have been defending change and "innovation" as a mostly positive force in the gaming industry. Not once did I make a judgement on DA2 either way. Go back through my posts in this thread and show me where I called DA2 "innovative". I actually explicilty stated in an earlier post that the changes made between DA2 and DA:O are superficial at best.

Dragon Age 2 ripped off Citizen Kane, but that doesn't mean that what Dragon Age 2 did is innovative in the least. And there are plenty of examples of actual innovative video games. Mario 64 innovated 3D platforming. 3D platforming simply did not exist in any playable form before it. Same with Doom and FPSes. Portal's wormholes. Final fantasy for plot-driven RPGs. these games are examples of games with fundamental features that had not been seen before, hence why they are innovative. Name one funamental aspect of in Dragon Age 2 that had not already been done.

Something can have been done before and still be "innovative" in its application or in its combination with other things. Televisions and fridges already existed for decades, but combining the two appliances was an innovation.

Modifié par Plaintiff, 21 mars 2012 - 10:42 .

[Wulfram]

spagbolkid wrote...

They through all this out of the window for political intrigue.

Origins had far more political intrigue than DA2.

Actually, DA2 really could have done with some decent politicing like we had at the landsmeet in Origins.  All Hawke really got to do was a few throw away quests if they support the mages at the start of act 3.

[cephasjames]

Cultist wrote...

Deus Ex 3 - developers repeated their previous game success by refining Deus Ex 2 and avoiding radical changes. Result - huge financial success.
Portal 2, Dead Space 2, New Vegas, Starcraft 2, Skyrim. All fared perfectly. And of course - Dragon Age: Origins, successing BG2.
The point of this is not to forbid or prevent innovation, but DO NOT FIX WHAT IS NOT BROKEN!
Beta of Diablo 3 is the best example of this - they removed all that annoyed playersin D2 and improved all the other aspects.
Refine it, remove worst aspects, empathise the best. And players will be happy. They'll buy and praise the game.

Just wanted to comment on New Vegas. Fallout 3, which is what New Vegas is, is a completely different game from Fallout 1 & 2, both of which were successful games. Which goes to show that change is not bad, it just needs to be done well.

[LeBurns]

When I read the OP I thought to myself that he should have been saying this months ago. Then I checked the date and realized he did.

My flat response is in my sig. For me DAO worked. By the numbers and rewards, it worked. Change everything to bring in some more console and CoD players? Not the best idea BioWarEA has had.

[Wulfram]

Fallout 1 and 2 were a decade old when Fallout 3 came out.  That's a different situation to making a continuation to an existing series

Skyrim is a good example of a successful revamp.  They did in fact change a lot, but they managed to leave the things that people actually played the game for intact.

Modifié par Wulfram, 21 mars 2012 - 02:32 .