672 réponses à ce sujet

[mauro2222]

Heavensrun wrote...

(sigh)  The collectors fly.  Using wings.  Wings require a medium to push against.  There's no reason to think there was no atmosphere.  There was certainly artificial gravity, as evidenced by the piles of bodies that stuck firmly to the ground.

The Reaper had atmosphere, the researchers inside had been living there, you go in through an airlock in the first place.

And in Legions loyalty mission, you can SEE the atmosphere.  (ironically, in that locale there -isn't- gravity, but the atmosphere is evident, particularly when you get to the window where you look out at the geth mainframe, and things fade out into the distance.  If there was no atmosphere in the station, you would be able to see all the way to the other side of the station.  Not to mention the fact that the geth mainframes would -cook- if they didn't have a heat transfer medium to carry heat away from the circuits.

There is no reason to assume that -any- of those situations involved being in vacuum, and the fact that your squadmates run around those environments without space suits is a good reason to assume that they -didn't-.

There's no evidence

I don't remember the Geth having the ability to fly or float around...

[Ryzaki]

Cthulhu42 wrote...
Yes, I remember Grunt's comment on that mission... "stings a bit". Well, Grunt, maybe if you covered up your arms you wouldn't have that problem.

He said that? *facepalms*

krossbow wrote...

Makes about as much sense as anything
else Okeer talked about. For the life of me i still cannot fathom how
Grunt was supposed to save the krogan.

I thought he was supposed to be the template for a super soldier or some crap. I dunno.

KnightofPhoenix wrote...
Yes. Didn't he say that the galaxy will learn to fear the bicep? [smilie]../../../images/forum/emoticons/grin.png[/smilie]

I'd sacrifice myself for that cause.

[smilie]../../../images/forum/emoticons/lol.png[/smilie]

I'm not sure about sacrifice but it does sound like a good cause.

[Heavensrun]

Ryzaki wrote...

Sepewrath wrote...

edit: ^It wouldn't matter what you wearing if you been sterilized.

How so? No saracasm I'm curious. It's possible to remove all the bacteria from human skin/eardrums and such? Not harmful to us but they might be harmful to the quarians (and are if Shep's threat to take of his/her helmet and breath all over their nice clean ship is any indication).

Actually, the issue of the Quarian ship is a valid one, I'll admit.  I typically always took garrus, so non-issue there, but I do think that particular mission should limit your character choices to people who wear an enclosed suit.

[Ryzaki]

ediskrad327 wrote...

[felipejiraya]

Damn, I''m back from dinner and this thread is almost at 20 pages.

Go play something.

[Iakus]

Heavensrun wrote...

iakus wrote...

1) Garrus, Wrex, Tali, and Liara were not Alliance personel.  But wore full helmets whenever Shepard did.

2) Any number of "fast and loose" merc groups, pirates, and other less than law-abiding types have no problem whatsoever with wearing sealed helmets.

3) Because the first game established these things exist.  I never said I wanted realistic.  I've been saying I want consistency.  All three games have humanoid aliens, FTL, kinetic barriers.  But Mass Effect 1 also established that helmets were still needed in hostil enviroments.

I don't blame Jade Empire for being Jade Empire.  I blame Mass Effect for trying to be Jade Empire when it was already Mass Efefct.

1)  They agreed to be on Shep's crew, so that implies that they would still be subject to whatever rules shepard saw fit to enforce on them.

2)  Fair enough, though these groups also have stormtrooper syndrome, in that generally intended to be generic in the first place.

3)  ME1 established that Shep's crew -wore- helmets in hostile environments.  That isn't the same thing.

Jade Empire)  I...What?  What does Jade Empire have to do with anything?

1) And Shepard  decided "I died once, If it's good enough for me, it's good enough for my crew"" in 2 &3?

2) Helmets don't have to be generic.

3) Yes, because apparantly assari tissue can now withstand toxic atmospheres and be exposed to hurracane force storms without damage.  This apparantly happened sometime between ME and ME2

Jade Empire didn't use armor mechanics of any kind.  the characters, including the Spirit monk just wore clothes.  Sometimes rather gaudy outfits into battle.  I thought nothing of it,  because, hey, this is Jade Empire, it's how things work.

Mass Effect worked differently.  It had armor.  People wore helmets in nasty atmospheres, toxic enviroments, and such.  ME2 went the route of Jade Empire.  Not so much armor as costumes, and allergen filters for helmets.

I take issue wit hthis because, as I said, this is not Jade Empire.  Rules on how this universe worked were established in the first game.  They've lasrgely been thrown out the window, seemingly for the sake of "awesome"

[CARL_DF90]

Estelindis wrote...

Chris Priestly wrote...

We like the breathing masks as evident by them returning. Terror doesn't, which is fine, but they aren't going to change. There are elements in ME that are not 100% science. These are done because teh team likes the way they look or work in ME. While not 100% good science, we feel they make for good game.

So... deal with it.

The issue Terror raised has little to do with like and dislike.  You make it sound like this is a purely subjective issue.  Really, however, it's a matter of internal consistency and credibility.  Are those things you dislike?

As a side-point, Chris, you have many excellent qualities, but simply saying "deal with it" does not, to my mind, embody the kind of dialogue I assume Bioware hoped for when creating this community.  It's rude, it's abrupt, and it doesn't contribute positively to the discussion.  It's more likely to simply irritate people.  If you had said that, for Bioware, aesthetics were more important than maintaining some kind of science within your science fiction, then that at least would have explained why you think Terror should simply "deal with it."  Saying "I like X and you like Y" really isn't enough; why Bioware prefers one to the other is the real question.  Of course, in your second post, you did explain a bit, but it's hardly surprising that people reacted with annoyance to your first glib utterance.

Excellent points made here. *sighs* It saddens me greatly to see things like this happen on the forums. It is true that the op and the way he expressed the issue was immature and rude, but so was your first response Chris. I do realise that you guys over there at Bioware are working your tails off to finish ME3 in time for launch. I am one of those people who truly DOES appreciate the work you and your co-workers put into it. You're probably working long hours and are working with short fuses. I get it. I've worked some long hours myself having worked shift work for 5+ years. I've had 16 to 18 hour days so I know all about that. I also understand that this forum has seen quite a few knuckleheads and idiots and dealing with them can be trying at times. What I don't understand is why you would hurt your own standing and credibility by handling it the way you did. It was not the mark of someone who should be a professional. As it stands a LOT of respect that myself and others had for you went down a few a points. Perhaps the messenger made you lose sight of the message, which surprisingly enough did have a few valid points. But honestly Chris you did yourself no favors by acting like the people that got under your skin.

Modifié par CARL_DF90, 29 décembre 2011 - 02:16 .

[KnightofPhoenix]

jreezy wrote...

krossbow wrote...

Makes about as much sense as anything else Okeer talked about. For the life of me i still cannot fathom how Grunt was supposed to save the krogan.

Simple explanation: He wasn't

He was supposed to save them from imperfect mediocrity and the supposed fallacy that numbers matter.

[Heavensrun]

Biotic Sage wrote...

Heavensrun wrote...

Biotic Sage wrote...
Chris has the responsibility as a professional to take a higher road than Terror.  You are completely correct.

This I'm gonna say BS on.  If a customer is disruptive, you are under no obligation to be accomodating to them.  Besides that, Chris -did- take a higher road than Terror.  Terror all but explicitly said the devs are idiots for continuing on a stylistic direction he/she didn't agree with.  All Chris said was "Deal with it".  He didn't cast aspersions at Terror's intelligence or competance, which most certainly can -not- be said in return.

Contrary to popular opinion, the customer is -not- always right, nor is it always advantageous to pretend that they are.

Just because there is an even lower road to take, doesn't mean he took the high road.

The phrase used before was "higher road than Terror", so I stand by my point.  ;p

[Ryzaki]

@iakus: Not to mention JE at least tried to explain the outfits by the culture. Revealing and ornate flowing clothing were signs of status and skill. The SM and companions dressed like that because it was how they said they were skilled fighters.

RoC was canonized and it made sense in the setting.

Modifié par Ryzaki, 29 décembre 2011 - 02:14 .

[Heavensrun]

mauro2222 wrote...

Heavensrun wrote...

(sigh)  The collectors fly.  Using wings.  Wings require a medium to push against.  There's no reason to think there was no atmosphere.  There was certainly artificial gravity, as evidenced by the piles of bodies that stuck firmly to the ground.

The Reaper had atmosphere, the researchers inside had been living there, you go in through an airlock in the first place.

And in Legions loyalty mission, you can SEE the atmosphere.  (ironically, in that locale there -isn't- gravity, but the atmosphere is evident, particularly when you get to the window where you look out at the geth mainframe, and things fade out into the distance.  If there was no atmosphere in the station, you would be able to see all the way to the other side of the station.  Not to mention the fact that the geth mainframes would -cook- if they didn't have a heat transfer medium to carry heat away from the circuits.

There is no reason to assume that -any- of those situations involved being in vacuum, and the fact that your squadmates run around those environments without space suits is a good reason to assume that they -didn't-.

There's no evidence

I don't remember the Geth having the ability to fly or float around...

. . . So?

[Alex Arterius]

Hilarious. So funny to think that one of the most controversial threads on BSN is over... breathing masks... i mean who would have seen this coming? :L

You just can't make this stuff up...

[krossbow]

breaking news for mass effect 3:


In keeping with the new art direction of the series, Volus no longer need their pressure suits: Only breathing masks.

[Nashiktal]

mauro2222 wrote...

Heavensrun wrote...

(sigh)  The collectors fly.  Using wings.  Wings require a medium to push against.  There's no reason to think there was no atmosphere.  There was certainly artificial gravity, as evidenced by the piles of bodies that stuck firmly to the ground.

The Reaper had atmosphere, the researchers inside had been living there, you go in through an airlock in the first place.

And in Legions loyalty mission, you can SEE the atmosphere.  (ironically, in that locale there -isn't- gravity, but the atmosphere is evident, particularly when you get to the window where you look out at the geth mainframe, and things fade out into the distance.  If there was no atmosphere in the station, you would be able to see all the way to the other side of the station.  Not to mention the fact that the geth mainframes would -cook- if they didn't have a heat transfer medium to carry heat away from the circuits.

There is no reason to assume that -any- of those situations involved being in vacuum, and the fact that your squadmates run around those environments without space suits is a good reason to assume that they -didn't-.

There's no evidence

I don't remember the Geth having the ability to fly or float around...

No gravity doesn't mean no atmopshere.

However the reaper ship DID have a vacuume, after you shut down the ME core and jumped to the normandy. Through a browndwarfs radiation, extreme temperature, and various gasses at that.

[100k]

jreezy wrote...

krossbow wrote...

Makes about as much sense as anything else Okeer talked about. For the life of me i still cannot fathom how Grunt was supposed to save the krogan.

Simple explanation: He wasn't

A correction would be that Grunt was supposed to "redefine" the krogan ideal as a race. Rather than returning the krogan to their mass numbers, he's a side stepped route by being "perfect". 

Wrex would still give him a spanking, but I think Grunt's pretty cool.

[KnightofPhoenix]

krossbow wrote...

breaking news for mass effect 3:


In keeping with the new art direction of the series, Volus no longer need their pressure suits: Only breathing masks.

I always knew that the volus had Cool in them.

Give me a dancing Elcor and we are golden.

[Heavensrun]

felipejiraya wrote...

Damn, I''m back from dinner and this thread is almost at 20 pages.

Go play something.

I am!  I'm playing on this thread!  Discussions are fun!

[Bluko]

ODST 5723 wrote...

No one has to convince you Bluko. At the end of the day, if the masks are in the masks are in. You're either forced to begrudgingly accept it or decide that it's a game-breaker for you.

You're right no one has to. But  if they did offer a good explaination I can't really complain then can I? Has the meaning of communication been lost or what? Is this not the purpose of having forum? Look I explained earlier I don't hate breathing masks. I just hate breathing masks being my only option, which I'm very afraid they will be.

And yes this is a game breaker for me. My number one issue with ME2 was the stupid outfits that I was suppose to accept as being combat/space worthy. I get that Mass Effect is Fiction, hence all rules need not apply. But this is stooping to a level of dumb I cannot accept. There's not even any good made-up explanation for it.

Even in pure fantasy you have to explain how something works on some level.

Modifié par Bluko, 29 décembre 2011 - 02:18 .

[Ryzaki]

Alex Arterius wrote...

Hilarious. So funny to think that one of the most controversial threads on BSN is over... breathing masks... i mean who would have seen this coming? :L

You just can't make this stuff up...

You haven't been here long have you? 

There's plenty of subjects that would get this many responses in about the same amount of time.

[nitefyre410]

Nashiktal wrote...

nitefyre410 wrote...

Estelindis wrote...

naledgeborn wrote...

Rule of Cool is your why, Estelindis

I am aware of the rule, but for me it's far better when a designer doesn't make me choose between coolness and making sense.  Why not have both? 

Because sometimes what is cool does not always make the best of sense and if it did make sense it would  not be cool.

Its cool because it makes no sense..

Like my favoriate...

punching  a black hole... it so absurded  its cool for fact that there is no way it can happen but  the Author that audacity to say... "Physics bah I care not for this foolishness."  and just does and then pulls off  your sitting  wide in shock that it just happened.

*Rewind*

Did that...

Yep... Just punched a black hole.

Which works just fine in a work that takes refuge in audacity but can be quite jarring to a series that started out mostly serious.

 


Your  missing the point my good fellow or lady


the point is that most are taking this  TOO seriously... really ....  If  Scifi fantasy does something not 100 %  it not  end of all things nor does it  lose any of its value,  Star Trek, Star Wars, hell even 2001: A Space Odessy  are all really out  there in some sense and still are taken seriously beside some of the WTF  moments.

Seriousness of  Mass Effect.... "Giant Talking Robotic Space Squids" hell bent on Galactic  extinction after taking a 50,000 year power nap one has to wonder.

Mass Effect is really not as a heavy as people make it out to be and that does not means its bad, its still great and still posses some  great debating questions  like Legion and Mordins Loyality missions... So does the existence of the breathing mask make those to loyality missions  lose any of there meaning... nope not at all.. 


 Thats like Saying the mere extistence of Tim Tebow as an NFL  Starting QB makes everything that  Rodgers and Drew Bress done this less valid.  


So in the is just relax... man enjoy the ride.


and the rebuttle I hear coming is....

"I can't because the Breathing Mask"

Modifié par nitefyre410, 29 décembre 2011 - 02:19 .

[krossbow]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

jreezy wrote...

krossbow wrote...

Makes about as much sense as anything else Okeer talked about. For the life of me i still cannot fathom how Grunt was supposed to save the krogan.

Simple explanation: He wasn't

He was supposed to save them from imperfect mediocrity and the supposed fallacy that numbers matter.

I still don't see how he thought this would work. If he was hoping that Grunt would Galvanize the Krogans into toughening up, he was delusional. Krogans aren't the type to be awed easily, and most would just try to kill grunt to show how awesome they were.


I get his plan, i just don't get how he thought it was a GOOD plan. Its like the step three profit problem.

[Nashiktal]

nitefyre410 wrote...

Nashiktal wrote...

nitefyre410 wrote...

Estelindis wrote...

naledgeborn wrote...

Rule of Cool is your why, Estelindis

I am aware of the rule, but for me it's far better when a designer doesn't make me choose between coolness and making sense.  Why not have both? 

Because sometimes what is cool does not always make the best of sense and if it did make sense it would  not be cool.

Its cool because it makes no sense..

Like my favoriate...

punching  a black hole... it so absurded  its cool for fact that there is no way it can happen but  the Author that audacity to say... "Physics bah I care not for this foolishness."  and just does and then pulls off  your sitting  wide in shock that it just happened.

*Rewind*

Did that...

Yep... Just punched a black hole.

Which works just fine in a work that takes refuge in audacity but can be quite jarring to a series that started out mostly serious.

 


Your  missing the point my good fellow or lady


the point is that most are taking this  TOO seriously... really ....  If  Scifi fantasy does something not 100 %  it not  end of all things nor does it  lose any of its value,  Star Trek, Star Wars, hell even 2001: A Space Odessy  are all really out  there in some sense and still are taken seriously beside some of the WTF  moments.

Seriousness of  Mass Effect.... "Giant Talking Robotic Space Squids" hell bent on Galactic  extinction after taking a 50,000 year power nap.  

Mass Effect is really not as a heavy as people make it out to be and that does not means its bad, its still great and still posses some  great debating questions  like Legion and Mordins Loyality missions... So does the existence of the breathing mask make those to loyality missions  lose any of there meaning... nope not at all.. 


 Thats like Saying the mere extistence of Tim Tebow as an NFL  Starting QB makes everything that  Rodgers and Drew Bress done this less valid.  


So in the is just relax... man enjoy the ride.


and the rebuttle I hear coming is....

"I can't because the Breathing Mask"

No the rebuttle is the MST3k MANTRA. In particular this quote.

"On the other hand, somebody who hopes to promote a movie can't insist
it's "just a movie" and critics should "just relax" while also expecting
they take seriously any aesop, speculation, spectacle, or anything else
of potential value from it. Anyone who expects another to be selective
of a work in exactly their prescribed way is insulting the intelligence
of the audience. This isn't about critical appraisal, but what is
necessary to tell a story. When criticism targets those things that were
simply unexplained, that's when you bring up Bellisario's Maxim.


At the same time however, one should be careful that they do not go too far and use this to justify saying that The Complainer Is Always Wrong.
Yes, there's no point in getting excessively worked up and nitpicky
about something that, at the end of the day, is just a work of fiction.
But using it as a way of brushing off any and all forms of criticism is
an equally dangerous attitude to have, and in creators can be a possible
sign of a Small Name, Big Ego at work.
"

There is a thin line between the mantra and the maxim here.

[ODST 5723]

Ryzaki wrote...

Not to mention...isn't one of the N7 quests on a planet with an acidic environment? I really have to wonder why anyone would expose skin in that scenario.

Simple concept.  They didn't.  The visuals simply don't match up with the reality of the situation in the same way that slapping two Frictionless X's on a Spectre Master Gear AR X doesn't actually create a weapon that produces no heat.

That's what most people seem to be missing.  If they see it, it had to have happened.  I can disassociate from that fairly well considering how common that's become in gameplay. 

In Halo, a plasma bolt would melt armor and incinerate flesh.  Does it do that visually and are those weapons the most effect against flesh?  No.  But that's how it is in the lore.   MC's armor changes between 2 and 3.  It's reflected visually but it really doesn't need to be explained because it's the same armor.

In Gears of War, there's plenty of exposed skin taking everything from acid to fire, yet it's not reflected in gameplay.  Does that mean that Marcus Fenix took a ton a lot of rounds in the exposed portions of his body in the game because you got lit up on screen?  No. In fact, he likely didn't get touched at all.

In Skyrim, I can fight a dragon while I'm naked or wearing various types of armor.  I can wear Fur Armor yet not be set on fire instantly when it's breathing fire right on me.  I don't recieve any burns or extra scars, yet I get hacked up all the time.  So is that visual evidence of the reality of the situation?  No.

If you can accept that you didn't fight more Collectors on the base or that there was more than one Cruiser... or that what was reflected visually in the Battle of the Citadel doesn't tell the whole story then this should be an easy concept to accept here as well.