672 réponses à ce sujet

[Sowtaaw]

its called consistency mr priestly why in me1 everyone need a full live suport suit to land on hostile eviroment worlds and in me2 the out nowhere its not long required. to me is just stupid way of ignore what has been presented in me1. ppl are right to **** about the masks.

[eyesofastorm]

daftPirate wrote...

eyesofastorm wrote...

daftPirate wrote...

Not being big into science myself, I can't say for sure, but Legion says the station has neither air nor gravity. How far separated are air and atmosphere?

Atmosphere is probably classified as a collection of gases trapped by a planet's gravity.  I'm not 100% on it, but you might be able to have atmoshpere without having air that is breathable, but you wouldn't be able to have air that is breathable if you don't have an atmosphere.  

I see. So these gases (not breathable air) would work for keeping Geth mainframes from burning up?

Breathable air for humans would require something like 20% oxygen I think.  Combustion requires oxygen.  If by burning up you mean combustion and not simply overheating, then you could have gases (containing no oxygen) that would allow for a cooling effect by convection without allowing anything to literally burn.  I have no idea why you are asking though.  Perhaps I should be following the convo closer.  

[Iakus]

Il Divo wrote...

I'm leaning towards "It's not a big deal" side. What will make or break ME3 for me is the overall quality of the writing and gameplay, not whether or not I can see Liara's face when in a vacuum.  

By itself, it's not "make or break" but to me it's another sign that it's a good thing ME3 is the end of the trilogy.  Because really, I think Bioware just stopped caring about the ME universe if allergen masks are "good enough"

Those masks aren't "creative" to me.  "Creative" is working within set confines to create a workable solution.  These breath masks are just a way of saying "screw the logic MOAR AWESUM!".  It ignores ME1 entirely. Which I've long had the suspicion was the point anyway.

Of course, in ME2, no one who wore one of those masks left the ship if they had to wear one of those.  Heck, I would have dumped Liara back on the Normandy fro that last LOTSB mission if I could have.   So those masks are pretty much entirely wasted on me.

In fact, when I (eventually) get ME3, I'll probably have to make a list of who has an allergen filter and who has a real helmet and select my team appropriately.  I'd like to at least pretend I'm playing a science fiction rpg and not Jade Empire in Space.

[Iakus]

Sowtaaw wrote...

its called consistency mr priestly why in me1 everyone need a full live suport suit to land on hostile eviroment worlds and in me2 the out nowhere its not long required. to me is just stupid way of ignore what has been presented in me1. ppl are right to **** about the masks.

This.

Make the rules.  Then abide by them.

[goofyomnivore]

I don't understand how some people in this thread were very adamant about giving Ashley armor but are dubbing breathing masks as artistic freedom.

Modifié par strive, 28 décembre 2011 - 11:33 .

[Ramus Quaritch]

iakus wrote...

Il Divo wrote...

I'm leaning towards "It's not a big deal" side. What will make or break ME3 for me is the overall quality of the writing and gameplay, not whether or not I can see Liara's face when in a vacuum.  

By itself, it's not "make or break" but to me it's another sign that it's a good thing ME3 is the end of the trilogy.  Because really, I think Bioware just stopped caring about the ME universe if allergen masks are "good enough"

Those masks aren't "creative" to me.  "Creative" is working within set confines to create a workable solution.  These breath masks are just a way of saying "screw the logic MOAR AWESUM!".  It ignores ME1 entirely. Which I've long had the suspicion was the point anyway.

Of course, in ME2, no one who wore one of those masks left the ship if they had to wear one of those.  Heck, I would have dumped Liara back on the Normandy fro that last LOTSB mission if I could have.   So those masks are pretty much entirely wasted on me.

In fact, when I (eventually) get ME3, I'll probably have to make a list of who has an allergen filter and who has a real helmet and select my team appropriately.  I'd like to at least pretend I'm playing a science fiction rpg and not Jade Empire in Space.

This.

[Praetor Knight]

Well, since this topic is here, I'd love to have s different design for the character's hazard gear, and what about helmets that still show their faces?

I mean Joker used one at the beginning of ME2.

Modifié par Praetor Shepard, 28 décembre 2011 - 11:46 .

[Ryzaki]

I hate the breathing masks because it's not consistent.

Shep is FORCED into full helmet (FORCED) in hostile environments (Making me take off my sentry visor in favor of it). Meanwhile Miranda and Jack can just throw on breather masks? WTF?

[Heavensrun]

Mazder wrote...

Heavensrun wrote...

(sigh)  The collectors fly.  Using wings.  Wings require a medium to push against.  There's no reason to think there was no atmosphere.  There was certainly artificial gravity, as evidenced by the piles of bodies that stuck firmly to the ground.

The Reaper had atmosphere, the researchers inside had been living there, you go in through an airlock in the first place.

And in Legions loyalty mission, you can SEE the atmosphere.  (ironically, in that locale there -isn't- gravity, but the atmosphere is evident, particularly when you get to the window where you look out at the geth mainframe, and things fade out into the distance.  If there was no atmosphere in the station, you would be able to see all the way to the other side of the station.  Not to mention the fact that the geth mainframes would -cook- if they didn't have a heat transfer medium to carry heat away from the circuits.

There is no reason to assume that -any- of those situations involved being in vacuum, and the fact that your squadmates run around those environments without space suits is a good reason to assume that they -didn't-.

There's no evidence

Huh.  Weird that my post cut off like that.    (ahem)  "There's no evidence that those areas were vacuum, and the squadmates themselves are evidence that they were not.  If you dispense with the preconcieved notion that those areas were vacuum, then there is no reason to believe that they were.

Well with the Collector ship example we didn't see any live collectors until the power was restored and atmospher may have been reintroduced then.
Also with that there would be speculation as to where the collectors were during this time, possibly in one room with atmosphere.

Except that there's no reason to assume, in the first place, that there isn't atmosphere.  There was artificial gravity from the very start, so obviously "dead" doesn't mean "all systems including gravity and life support are shut down".  And repressurizing a chamber the size of that central storage area would either be a very slow process, or a very violent one.  Believe me, we would have noticed.

Also with the Geth ship example as to the atmosphere restricting view that is most likely a game issue unable to render that amount rather than there actually being atmoshpere.
Mind you why would a robot need any air?

You just asked a question that I already answered.  Radiative heat transfer is slow.  One of the best ways to ensure that your processors don't overheat is to blow air over them to carry the heat away, so that you get conduction.  And there are, in both ME and ME2, very large areas with an extremely large range of view, and even if there weren't, there are ways to fake it that would have been perfectly convincing.  No, the fact that the station fogs out in the distance is a deliberate choice on the part of the developers.  That station is pressurized.  There's no reason to think it isn't.

[Cyberstrike nTo]

Terror_K wrote...

Chris Priestly wrote...

Why not? We like the breathing masks as evident by them returning. Terror doesn't, which is fine, but they aren't going to change. There are elements in ME that are not 100% science. These are done because teh team likes the way they look or work in ME. While not 100% good science, we feel they make for good game.

So... deal with it.

But it doesn't add to the gameplay at all. It doesn't even impact on it. It's purely aesthetic, and a completely juvenile and pathetic one at that that spits in the face of sensibility just for the sake of... I don't even know what!

Frankly I don't give a rat's ass if they use breathing masks or if the Normandy was powered by a giant hamster running in a giant wheel. I hate fans who ruin sci-fi franchies by demanding it being "real" or obey stupid rules that don't really matter to most fans.

My advice is: that if you don't like it then don't play Mass Effect 3 and STFU about it.

[Mazder]

strive wrote...

I don't understand how some people in this thread were very adamant about giving Ashley armor but are dubbing breathing masks as artistic freedom.

Because her character in ME1 and her brief stint in ME2 was wearing full armour.
It's an equal part of her character as her family of her religious beliefs, they set it up as such in ME1 and then initially showed in the initial trailers that they had thrown her previous thoughts out of the window.

I am glad they have also shown her with armour on but they should have showed her with armour in the beginning of the ME3 trailers.

Also artistic freedom can be done without hurling stuff out of the window, as Sowtaaw said, it's more about consistency and logic than a jab at artistic freedom or anything.

I myself would have preferred some sort of gasmask thing instead of the little "hospital breather" we currently have.

Modifié par Mazder, 28 décembre 2011 - 11:38 .

[nitefyre410]

LTiberious wrote...

eyesofastorm wrote...

Chris Priestly wrote...

Seriously Terror. Deal with it.

I'm not big on the breathing masks either, but they aren't a big deal to me.  This what you say here Priestly is kind of a big deal... you guys have turned into complete douchebags.  You're like the freaks and geeks in middle school that went away for the summer and your skin cleared up or you grew some epic boobs and now you are the cool kids and can't be bothered with this geeky stuff.  Only that's not true.  You are actually nowhere near as cool as you used to be, but for some reason you guys act like you're tha bomb now.  Get over yourselves before everyone else does.  

He's stressed. He needs a vacation. Leave him be please.

 


Exactly He is stressed and its crunch time.    

He has to come hear compliants about something as silly as Breathing mask in a game with  "Gaint  Robtic, Talking Space Squids" hell bent on galactic destruction and  then hear people whine about  how  unrealistic and .blah blah blah blah... I mean whats else do you want  these guys at bioware to do come and cooks freaking dinner while we play the damn game.    Really its gets old... I can't blame him for telling terror off.

So how about this.. how about we as fans get over ourselves and treat this like what it really as  Sci-Fi Space Fanatasy  with blue alien chicks, space ships and Gaint Robtic talking  Space Squids  and a bad ass space marine and his bad ass team of space heroes who  save the damn galaxy. Not some deep exploration of the how space travel would actually work or the realism of   exosuits in a Zero G  vaccum hositle envoirment.

Modifié par nitefyre410, 28 décembre 2011 - 11:38 .

[aksoileau]

eyesofastorm wrote...

Chris Priestly wrote...

Seriously Terror. Deal with it.

I'm not big on the breathing masks either, but they aren't a big deal to me.  This what you say here Priestly is kind of a big deal... you guys have turned into complete douchebags.  You're like the freaks and geeks in middle school that went away for the summer and your skin cleared up or you grew some epic boobs and now you are the cool kids and can't be bothered with this geeky stuff.  Only that's not true.  You are actually nowhere near as cool as you used to be, but for some reason you guys act like you're tha bomb now.  Get over yourselves before everyone else does.  

He's only talking like 99% of the rest of the internet forum world.  It was funny.   And Terror_K was the instigator, so what if he swung back. 

[daftPirate]

jreezy wrote...

daftPirate wrote...

Not being big into science myself, I can't say for sure, but Legion says the station has neither air nor gravity. How far separated are air and atmosphere?

If you're talking about the Heretic Station he doesn't say that at all.

As others have now mentioned, what he actually is that there is >little< air or gravity. Small but significant difference, my bad in this case.

[Nashiktal]

Breather masks again?

Ugh.

[Someone With Mass]

daftPirate wrote...

Not being big into science myself, I can't say for sure, but Legion says the station has neither air nor gravity. How far separated are air and atmosphere?

Sorry to be picky, but he said that the station had LITTLE air or gravity.

[Dave of Canada]

All this talk of respect, no talk about professionalism. Regardless of how some might feel on the issue, Priestly still represents something on these forums and the "deal with it" attitude which is growing doesn't set a good example.

I understand, crunch time isn't fun, he's still human, ect. He's still a company representative whether he likes it or not.

Modifié par Dave of Canada, 28 décembre 2011 - 11:41 .

[Seboist]

BW clearly doesn't want people to take ME more seriously than Ninja Gaiden with their continued use of breather masks and female characters dressed in skimpy outfits and heels in combat.

[Nashiktal]

Cyberstrike nTo wrote...

Terror_K wrote...

Chris Priestly wrote...

Why not? We like the breathing masks as evident by them returning. Terror doesn't, which is fine, but they aren't going to change. There are elements in ME that are not 100% science. These are done because teh team likes the way they look or work in ME. While not 100% good science, we feel they make for good game.

So... deal with it.

But it doesn't add to the gameplay at all. It doesn't even impact on it. It's purely aesthetic, and a completely juvenile and pathetic one at that that spits in the face of sensibility just for the sake of... I don't even know what!

Frankly I don't give a rat's ass if they use breathing masks or if the Normandy was powered by a giant hamster running in a giant wheel. I hate fans who ruin sci-fi franchies by demanding it being "real" or obey stupid rules that don't really matter to most fans.

My advice is: that if you don't like it then don't play Mass Effect 3 and STFU about it.

I invoke the MST3k mantra and I quote this line from TV tropes.

"on the other hand, somebody who hopes to promote a movie can't insist
it's "just a movie" and critics should "just relax" while also expecting
they take seriously any aesop, speculation, spectacle, or anything else
of potential value from it. Anyone who expects another to be selective
of a work in exactly their prescribed way is insulting the intelligence
of the audience. This isn't about critical appraisal, but what is
necessary to tell a story. When criticism targets those things that were
simply unexplained, that's when you bring up Bellisario's Maxim.


At the same time however, one should be careful that they do not go too far and use this to justify saying that The Complainer Is Always Wrong.
Yes, there's no point in getting excessively worked up and nitpicky
about something that, at the end of the day, is just a work of fiction.
But using it as a way of brushing off any and all forms of criticism is
an equally dangerous attitude to have, and in creators can be a possible
sign of a Small Name, Big Ego at work.
"

[eyesofastorm]

nitefyre410 wrote...

LTiberious wrote...

eyesofastorm wrote...

Chris Priestly wrote...

Seriously Terror. Deal with it.

I'm not big on the breathing masks either, but they aren't a big deal to me.  This what you say here Priestly is kind of a big deal... you guys have turned into complete douchebags.  You're like the freaks and geeks in middle school that went away for the summer and your skin cleared up or you grew some epic boobs and now you are the cool kids and can't be bothered with this geeky stuff.  Only that's not true.  You are actually nowhere near as cool as you used to be, but for some reason you guys act like you're tha bomb now.  Get over yourselves before everyone else does.  

He's stressed. He needs a vacation. Leave him be please.

 


Exactly He is stressed and its crunch time.    

He has to come hear compliants about something as silly as Breathing mask in a game with  "Gaint  Robtic, Talking Space Squids" hell bent on galactic destruction and  then hear people whine about  how  unrealistic and .blah blah blah blah... I mean whats else do you want  these guys at bioware to do come and cooks freaking dinner while we play the damn game.    Really its gets old... I can't blame him for telling terror off.

So how about this.. how about we as fans get over ourselves and treat this like what it really as  Sci-Fi Space Fanatasy  with blue alien chicks, space ships and Gaint Robtic talking  Space Squids  and a bad ass space marine and his bad ass team of space heroes who  save the damn galaxy. Not some deep exploration of the how space travel would actually work or the realism of   exosuits in a Zero G  vaccum hositle envoirment.

Are you saying there is no line of credibility that they could cross that you wouldn't accept?  There is a threshold of believability and immersion for everyone and it seems yours in just farther down this slippery slope than some other folks.  Live in fear... it is a slippery slope after all and Bioware is wearing skis.  

[Izhalezan]

daftPirate wrote...

Not being big into science myself, I can't say for sure, but Legion says the station has little air nor gravity. How far separated are air and atmosphere?

Fixed.

[Iakus]

Cyberstrike nTo wrote...


Frankly I don't give a rat's ass if they use breathing masks or if the Normandy was powered by a giant hamster running in a giant wheel. I hate fans who ruin sci-fi franchies by demanding it being "real" or obey stupid rules that don't really matter to most fans.

How about consistancy from one game to another.  Too much to ask for?