227 réponses à ce sujet

[Unpleasant Implications]

Should we completely clear the genophage and allow the Krogan to return to their previous numbers?

Heeeell no.

Should we reduce the effect of the genophage so that we can combat the reapers and so the Krogan can rebuild as a society after the war?

Yes.

[Eclipse_9990]

Purge the heathens wrote...

Even if the consequences were all "negative," I'd still cure the genophage for ****s and giggles.

Man.. Whatev's. 

[krossbow]

vvDRUCILLAvv wrote...

Purge the heathens wrote...

vvDRUCILLAvv wrote...

Battle hungry, blood thirsty, arrogant, power hungry, war mongerers pretty much sums up the human race as well and we haven't been neutered.

Now that's an unfair comparison. I'd even call it pure misanthropy. The First Contact War didn't even last an entire year and was peacefully and reasonably resolved rather than one side blasting the other into oblivion. And so far, I haven't seen any noteworthy Alliance personnel in the game who seemed battle hungry, bloodthirsty, arrogant or power hungry to me. A bit prejudiced, perhaps, but that's understandable.

Your opinion is your own. What about the batarians then and their slave trade? Should they be neutered?

The baatarians should be invaded and forced to restructure their society without Slavery. 


Sorry, call me a racist if you want, ethnocentric, whatever. But the fact is, the Baatarians ALREADY gave up their right to be left alone to practice their culture in isolation when they took to kidnapping others into slavery. That practice caused their culture to become unable to coexist peacefully with non-slavery cultures, in much the same way that a predator is unable to coexist with its prey species.

Even putting aside whether or not slavery is "Acceptable", their culture represents an unreconsilable threat to other cultures, forcing self defense by non-slavery cultures in order to survive unmolested.


I have no doubt that Baatarians can be turned into a legitimate culture and species if galvanized by military force to change; Its similair to how their defeat in world war II forced the japanese to drastically reevaluate their culture and restructure themselves to become one of the most prominent and upstanding nations in the world instead of isolationist and belligerent.

[AlexXIV]

vvDRUCILLAvv wrote...

AlexXIV wrote...

vvDRUCILLAvv wrote...

Eclipse_9990 wrote...

vvDRUCILLAvv wrote...

The genophage should be cured, the krogan got rear ended with that one.

Sigh.. I don't know why everyone is seeing the Krogan as victims yet not understanding that they brought this on themselves entirely. They're battle hungry, blood thirsty, arrogant, power hungry, war mongerers, and it was the only way to stop them. 

Battle hungry, blood thirsty, arrogant, power hungry, war mongerers pretty much sums up the human race as well and we haven't been neutered. The batarians are also another race that fits into this catagory. Why not neuter them too?

We don't produce hundrets of offspring a year, or dozens.

Also in China they already introduced birth control. And if things keep going as they do we will have little choice but do the same.

The genophage is hardly comparable to birth control though, it's closer to genocide if you ask me. They are dieing out because of the inability to reproduce enough numbers to keep their species going.

Well ... yeah they should use the data to enable them to have a healthy growth, I don't dispute that. If the krogan extinct because of the genophage it should be cured. But even better would be to adjust it again so the krogan have a 'healthy' birthrate. Healthy for them and the galaxy. If they multiply like crazy they eventually become a force greater than all the other races together and unstoppable. Then they wipe out everyone. I mean we would wipe out the Reapers too. Because they are a threat. In essence the same reasoning.

Modifié par AlexXIV, 29 décembre 2011 - 11:43 .

[vvDRUCILLAvv]

Unpleasant Implications wrote...

Should we completely clear the genophage and allow the Krogan to return to their previous numbers?

Heeeell no.

Should we reduce the effect of the genophage so that we can combat the reapers and so the Krogan can rebuild as a society after the war?

Yes.

Well said.  

[chaosomegas]

people krogans weren't ready to leave homeworld. the salarians "culturally uplifted" them . problem is the salarian mess up. you never give a caveman a nuke and think it will end well. the genophage use two times first times to stop Krogan Rebellions second time when the krogan were beginning to evolve a resistance to the genophage, allowing the rate of viable pregnancies to increase significantly. Mordin explains that he and his colleagues worked on a new genophage variant: in order to keep the krogan population from rising, population growth was adjusted to pre-industrial levels.

[bella127]

Remember- Okeer said he thought the genophage would make the krogan stronger, which is where Grunt comes into play; his bloodline is supposed to help the krogan adapt to it and become more united as a whole.

According to this reasoning, maybe just saving Grunt and keeping a hold on the genophage data was the best choice.

[vvDRUCILLAvv]

AlexXIV wrote...

vvDRUCILLAvv wrote...

AlexXIV wrote...

vvDRUCILLAvv wrote...

Eclipse_9990 wrote...

vvDRUCILLAvv wrote...

The genophage should be cured, the krogan got rear ended with that one.

Sigh.. I don't know why everyone is seeing the Krogan as victims yet not understanding that they brought this on themselves entirely. They're battle hungry, blood thirsty, arrogant, power hungry, war mongerers, and it was the only way to stop them. 

Battle hungry, blood thirsty, arrogant, power hungry, war mongerers pretty much sums up the human race as well and we haven't been neutered. The batarians are also another race that fits into this catagory. Why not neuter them too?

We don't produce hundrets of offspring a year, or dozens.

Also in China they already introduced birth control. And if things keep going as they do we will have little choice but do the same.

The genophage is hardly comparable to birth control though, it's closer to genocide if you ask me. They are dieing out because of the inability to reproduce enough numbers to keep their species going.

Well ... yeah they should use the data to enable them to have a healthy growth, I don't dispute that. If the krogan extinct because of the genophage it should be cured. But even better would be to adjust it again so the krogan have a 'healthy' birthrate. Healthy for them and the galaxy. If they multiply like crazy they eventually become a force greater than all the other races together and unstoppable. Then they wipe out everyone. I mean we would wipe out the Reapers too. Because they are a threat. In essence the same reasoning.

I agree, complete cure is more or less fool hearty if you ask me. There needs to be a happy medium between complete cure and no cure at all.

[Eclipse_9990]

AlexXIV wrote...

Well ... yeah they should use the data to enable them to have a healthy growth, I don't dispute that. If the krogan extinct because of the genophage it should be cured. 

 

But the Krogan wouldn't go extinct because of the genophage. The whole point of the genophage was to lower their birth rates, but at the same time keep their population stable. The Krogan were seen as heros after the rachni wars.  They didn't want the Krogan to be whiped out. 

Modifié par Eclipse_9990, 29 décembre 2011 - 11:47 .

[Darth_Trethon]

Preferably not since the Krogan are way too unstable and dangerous but if we were to cure them then we'd have to throw them at the reapers to ensure their numbers stay low and have Mordin assemble a team to create a new genophage that would be ready for use should the Krogan ever misbehave in the future. Some virus to wax the universe of batarians wouldn't hurt either.

[Eclipse_9990]

Darth_Trethon wrote...

Preferably not since the Krogan are way too unstable and dangerous but if we were to cure them then we'd have to throw them at the reapers to ensure their numbers stay low and have Mordin assemble a team to create a new genophage that would be ready for use should the Krogan ever misbehave in the future. Some virus to wax the universe of batarians wouldn't hurt either.

Not all Batarians are ****s. (Though I admit I still don't really like them). I don't think they need to be wiped out, I think they just need to get over their slavery thing. 

Modifié par Eclipse_9990, 29 décembre 2011 - 11:53 .

[vvDRUCILLAvv]

Eclipse_9990 wrote...

AlexXIV wrote...

Well ... yeah they should use the data to enable them to have a healthy growth, I don't dispute that. If the krogan extinct because of the genophage it should be cured. 

 

But the Krogan wouldn't go extinct because of the genophage. The whole point of the genophage was to lower their birth rates, but at the same time keep their population stable. The Krogan were seen as heros after the rachni wars.  They didn't want the Krogan to be whiped out. 

The krogan are dieing out because they cannot sustain numbers. Genophage = extiction.

[AlexXIV]

Darth_Trethon wrote...

Preferably not since the Krogan are way too unstable and dangerous but if we were to cure them then we'd have to throw them at the reapers to ensure their numbers stay low and have Mordin assemble a team to create a new genophage that would be ready for use should the Krogan ever misbehave in the future. Some virus to wax the universe of batarians wouldn't hurt either.

Well in that case I wouldn't know why the Reapers are worse than we are. Using other sentient species as tools and throw them away after they lose their worth for us isn't cool.

[vvDRUCILLAvv]

Darth_Trethon wrote...

Preferably not since the Krogan are way too unstable and dangerous but if we were to cure them then we'd have to throw them at the reapers to ensure their numbers stay low and have Mordin assemble a team to create a new genophage that would be ready for use should the Krogan ever misbehave in the future. Some virus to wax the universe of batarians wouldn't hurt either.

Granted, the batarians need to rethink some of their ways but to totally wipe them out is a little extreme don't you think.

[Eclipse_9990]

vvDRUCILLAvv wrote...

Eclipse_9990 wrote...

AlexXIV wrote...

Well ... yeah they should use the data to enable them to have a healthy growth, I don't dispute that. If the krogan extinct because of the genophage it should be cured. 

 

But the Krogan wouldn't go extinct because of the genophage. The whole point of the genophage was to lower their birth rates, but at the same time keep their population stable. The Krogan were seen as heros after the rachni wars.  They didn't want the Krogan to be whiped out. 

The krogan are dieing out because they cannot sustain numbers. Genophage = extiction.

The Krogan are dieing out because they keep whoring themselves out as mercenaries, and killing each other for territory(which they have always done). 

Frankly I think the best coarse of action for everyone. Is have the genophage stay in effect, and have Wrex guide the Krogan. 

Modifié par Eclipse_9990, 29 décembre 2011 - 11:55 .

[AlphaDormante]

I think introducing the genophage cure as it is would completely unravel all of the work Wrex is doing to unify the krogan. Clans would have much less need for protection, cooperation, diplomacy - given their nature, I can't imagine them having much incentive for unification if they have the means to endlessly bolster their numbers on their own. Maybe later down the line, if the krogan ever develop into a less violent culture, a cure could be dispatched. I believe doing so now would be a recipe for disaster. Let Wrex handle his own people for now.

Unless Wreav is in charge...in which case everything's going to ****** anyway.

Modifié par AlphaDormante, 29 décembre 2011 - 11:56 .

[ODST 5723]

Dean_the_Young wrote...

No, but it may be necessary.

This is my take as well.

[Eclipse_9990]

AlphaDormante wrote...

I think introducing the genophage cure as it is would completely unravel all of the work Wrex is doing to unify the krogan. Clans would have much less need for protection, cooperation, diplomacy - given their nature, I can't imagine them having much incentive for unification if they have the means to endlessly bolster their numbers on their own. Maybe later down the line, if the krogan ever develop into a less violent culture, a cure could be dispatched. I believe doing so now would be a recipe for disaster. Let Wrex handle his own people for now.

Unless Wreav is in charge...in which case everything's going to ****** anyway.

This is exactly how I see it. 

[AlexXIV]

Eclipse_9990 wrote...

vvDRUCILLAvv wrote...

Eclipse_9990 wrote...

AlexXIV wrote...

Well ... yeah they should use the data to enable them to have a healthy growth, I don't dispute that. If the krogan extinct because of the genophage it should be cured. 

 

But the Krogan wouldn't go extinct because of the genophage. The whole point of the genophage was to lower their birth rates, but at the same time keep their population stable. The Krogan were seen as heros after the rachni wars.  They didn't want the Krogan to be whiped out. 

The krogan are dieing out because they cannot sustain numbers. Genophage = extiction.

The Krogan are dieing out because they keep whoring themselves out as mercenaries, and killing each other for territory(which they have always done). 

Tbh I think they have the right on their own culture and traditions. Even if they have different values than we have. They should evolve on their own terms. Only problem I would have if they become a threat to other races or the whole galaxy. So demanding that they are 'more like humans' or other races is also a sort of genocide.

[Darth_Trethon]

AlexXIV wrote...

Darth_Trethon wrote...

Preferably not since the Krogan are way too unstable and dangerous but if we were to cure them then we'd have to throw them at the reapers to ensure their numbers stay low and have Mordin assemble a team to create a new genophage that would be ready for use should the Krogan ever misbehave in the future. Some virus to wax the universe of batarians wouldn't hurt either.

Well in that case I wouldn't know why the Reapers are worse than we are. Using other sentient species as tools and throw them away after they lose their worth for us isn't cool.

The Krogan can keep the genophage until they completely rewrite their culture and then some generations have passed to erase their savagery.

Beyond that it's total war and humanity will have sustained heavy losses by the end of ME3, if we don't take control of things on the stage of gallactic power we'll be easy pickings and the Batarians already had a plan in the works since ME1 to burn all of our colonies....the events of Arrival sent a good, strong message we are not to be messed with but the reaper focus on earth will shift the ballance of power in batarian hands....we can't have that no matter what.

Modifié par Darth_Trethon, 30 décembre 2011 - 12:01 .

[AlexXIV]

Darth_Trethon wrote...

AlexXIV wrote...

Darth_Trethon wrote...

Preferably not since the Krogan are way too unstable and dangerous but if we were to cure them then we'd have to throw them at the reapers to ensure their numbers stay low and have Mordin assemble a team to create a new genophage that would be ready for use should the Krogan ever misbehave in the future. Some virus to wax the universe of batarians wouldn't hurt either.

Well in that case I wouldn't know why the Reapers are worse than we are. Using other sentient species as tools and throw them away after they lose their worth for us isn't cool.

It's total war and humanity will have sustained heavy losses by the end of ME3, if we don't take control of things on the stage of gallactic power we'll be easy pickings and the Batarians already had a plan in the works since ME1 to burn all of our colonies....the events of Arrival sent a good, strong message we are not to be messed with but the reaper focus on earth will shift the ballance of power in batarian hands....we can't have that no matter what.

And there I was thinking we blew the thing up to hold the Reaper invasion. Silly me.

[Eclipse_9990]

AlexXIV wrote...

Eclipse_9990 wrote...

vvDRUCILLAvv wrote...

Eclipse_9990 wrote...

AlexXIV wrote...

Well ... yeah they should use the data to enable them to have a healthy growth, I don't dispute that. If the krogan extinct because of the genophage it should be cured. 

 

But the Krogan wouldn't go extinct because of the genophage. The whole point of the genophage was to lower their birth rates, but at the same time keep their population stable. The Krogan were seen as heros after the rachni wars.  They didn't want the Krogan to be whiped out. 

The krogan are dieing out because they cannot sustain numbers. Genophage = extiction.

The Krogan are dieing out because they keep whoring themselves out as mercenaries, and killing each other for territory(which they have always done). 

Tbh I think they have the right on their own culture and traditions. Even if they have different values than we have. They should evolve on their own terms. Only problem I would have if they become a threat to other races or the whole galaxy. So demanding that they are 'more like humans' or other races is also a sort of genocide.

That is not what I am saying at all. Though to be fair they do need to be more like the other races if they wish to continue interacting with said races. There should be cultural diversity(Its alot more interesting, and fun than just having one culture), but I just think the Krogan should tone down their aggressiveness so that they're not a threat to everyone around them.

Modifié par Eclipse_9990, 30 décembre 2011 - 12:03 .

[vvDRUCILLAvv]

Eclipse_9990 wrote...

vvDRUCILLAvv wrote...

Eclipse_9990 wrote...

AlexXIV wrote...

Well ... yeah they should use the data to enable them to have a healthy growth, I don't dispute that. If the krogan extinct because of the genophage it should be cured. 

 

But the Krogan wouldn't go extinct because of the genophage. The whole point of the genophage was to lower their birth rates, but at the same time keep their population stable. The Krogan were seen as heros after the rachni wars.  They didn't want the Krogan to be whiped out. 

The krogan are dieing out because they cannot sustain numbers. Genophage = extiction.

The Krogan are dieing out because they keep whoring themselves out as mercenaries, and killing each other for territory(which they have always done). 

Because they see no point in staying on Tuchanka a building a family of their own. Many have just given up and resort to unsavory careers.

[Eclipse_9990]

vvDRUCILLAvv wrote...

Because they see no point in staying on Tuchanka a building a family of their own. Many have just given up and resort to unsavory careers.

That is true, but what Wrex is doing for the Krogan(that is if Wrex is alive, if we're talking about Wreave here there shouldn't be a cure.. Ever.) is in their best interests for now. The Krogan will be forced to change in different ways. There won't be so many Krogan killing each other over petty squabbles, they will learn to be diplomatic, and not so aggressive. 

[AlexXIV]

Eclipse_9990 wrote...

AlexXIV wrote...

Eclipse_9990 wrote...

vvDRUCILLAvv wrote...

Eclipse_9990 wrote...

AlexXIV wrote...

Well ... yeah they should use the data to enable them to have a healthy growth, I don't dispute that. If the krogan extinct because of the genophage it should be cured. 

 

But the Krogan wouldn't go extinct because of the genophage. The whole point of the genophage was to lower their birth rates, but at the same time keep their population stable. The Krogan were seen as heros after the rachni wars.  They didn't want the Krogan to be whiped out. 

The krogan are dieing out because they cannot sustain numbers. Genophage = extiction.

The Krogan are dieing out because they keep whoring themselves out as mercenaries, and killing each other for territory(which they have always done). 

Tbh I think they have the right on their own culture and traditions. Even if they have different values than we have. They should evolve on their own terms. Only problem I would have if they become a threat to other races or the whole galaxy. So demanding that they are 'more like humans' or other races is also a sort of genocide.

That is not what I am saying at all. Though to be fair they do need to be more like the other races if they wish to continue interacting with said races. There should be cultural diversity(Its alot more interesting, and fun than just having one culture), but I just think the Krogan should tone down their aggressiveness so that they're not a threat to everyone around them.

All species have some skeletons in the closet. So we can take messures to 'equalize' all of them or let them all have their flaws in a conctruct that allows all civilisations to thrive. Despite the one or other 'accident'. That's pretty much how our world works as well.

Modifié par AlexXIV, 30 décembre 2011 - 12:09 .