905 réponses à ce sujet

[byzantine horse]

Give them this and we'll soon be back at "Shepard being able to use guns at the beginning breaks my immersion! I should have to spend points into the Shooting skill to be able to hit anything other than at point-blank range! It breaks my immersion! MY IMMERSION!".

[Bleachrude]

It's not JUST the rule of cool but actual time and effort that has to be spent with modelling.

ironically, the closest equivalent would be the various full helmet sports games like Madden and NHL and those games have always been mocked for how poorly the faces look (even last year's Madden I remember on gamefaqs a thread complaining about how "slack/unresponsive" the player's faces were when seen outside of their helmets.

I honestly would love full space suit armour but at the same time, I acknowledge that you would be wasting time and effort on art..Hell, when ME1 came out, I distinctly remember people complaining about the facial animations of your squadmates...

Personally, I rather see more body types if anything...
I always thought GoW was horrible about that...seriously, LOOK at Fenix's dad..I just started laughing at that scene in GoW3 when you meet him and it just killed the entire seriousness they were going for...I've seen real life bodybuilders smaller than him..

[GodWood]

Someone With Mass wrote...
Eh, it doesn't contradict anything if it's used in a environment where it's not safe to breathe because the air is polluted.

If the air is polluted/in space/hostile/whatever it's likely going to hurt your eyes and skin as well.

Seriously, lets not ****** around. Bioware's had squadmates doing this in toxic chlorine air. This isn't a case of 'none of the environments require full covering', it's a case of Bioware doesn't care and thinks it looks cooler.
Now if you wish to defend this decision you have to defend it as it is and not try to paint it as something else.

That's like saying that Shepard is breaking the immersion (that is such a overused word, by the way) just because he's wearing a hoodie instead of that outfit he wears in the Earth demo.

No, no it's not. Shepard and friends requiring fully sealed armour in hostile environments in one game and then only needing a gas mask (that's not connected to anything) in another is not comparible to him being able to wear different outfits. 

So get some lotion for your sore ass instead.

Please learn the meaning of the term you are referencing and start using it correctly.

Thankyou.

AlexXIV wrote...
Well you mentioned the rule of cool already. You don't have to think of it as someone running around with only a breathing mask on. Just look at it as if Varric told the story.

This is what got me through DA2. This is also what made me hate Varric, which is a shame, I liked Varric.

[bennyjammin79]

Does anybody know why Liara is wearing the evil breathing mask in the picture that started this latest outburst of sperm-retention fueled nerdrage? She could've for example just come from a room full of CO or countless other scenarios. For all we know, there could still be helmets for places where they're a necessity. Bioware can't have simply ignored how hilarious it would be to wear no eye protection on a planet with say... a chlorine atmosphere. Could they have?

Anyways, I'm going to go and get ready for work, then take public transit to work, focus on my job while at work, maybe pay some bills, pay down the credit card a little, think about what I need for food and bevies, perhaps shop for afore mentioned F'n'B, take public transit home, make dinner, hang out with friends, get ready for new years eve and then hopefully have sexual relations with the female that I've been maintaining a relationship with this entire day.*phew* I don't have the time worry about any of it with this breath mask fiasco going on.

F*ck you Bioware, you broke my immersion! I was a fan. A TRUE fan! You chose make believe science over the make believe science I would've chosen. Pre-order cancelled man. Now I'm gonna wait for it to come out on steam...

[Someone With Mass]

Oh no, they're wearing breather masks in an environment that could just be hard to breath in or simply have some poison gas which only affects people if they inhale it, not to mention that we have no idea about the context of that one screenshot.

This totally goes against everything they've told me about the proper clothing in Mass Effect, even though it has been minimal at best and they never established that there are alternatives, which somehow makes the alternatives invalid when they do show up.

[Fiery Phoenix]

Calinstel wrote...

Fiery Phoenix wrote...

Of course it would, but not instantly like you see in the movies. Like I said earlier, it would typically take a few hours for all that heat to be lost, at which point you start deoxygenating and all hell breaks loose from there.

The human body would not last hours in space.  The air in our lungs would expand and, if trying to hold ones breath, would cause the lungs themselves to explode/rupture in a couple of minutes at best.
The reduced pressure would also cause our blood to 'boil' releasing those gasses (Oxeygen, nitrogen).  First just the outer layer of skin would freeze and at the same time, the escaping gasses would force their way through the frozen layers, cracking/rupturing our epidurmal layers.  Fingers and toes would go numb then freeze solid, the eyes would solidify and freeze causing blindness.  After about 3 to 4 minutes, the brain would be oxygen starved, causing BSN disease, also known as brain death.  (Hey, we ALL have had that disease one time or another. )
Trying to survive in space can be done but only for about 30 seconds before actual damage occurs.  Longer and survivabilites drops way off.

True. As long as heat loss goes, however, which is what I was talking about, that does take a while. Insta-freezing doesn't happen in space.

[didymos1120]

OK, here's something this thread has made me wonder: where do they store their apparently limitless oxygen supply in those form-fitting ME1 hardsuits anyway?

Modifié par didymos1120, 30 décembre 2011 - 01:20 .

[ODST 5723]

Nightwriter wrote...
I don't think the Sovereign crash problem is being dismissed, I just think it doesn't get as much attention because it's not as immersion breaking.

There are reasonable people on the BSN. I have no idea where their line is, but mine starts to falter when Jack is shirtless on every world I bring her to, regardless of its climate or environment.

That's semanitics rationalzing why you're dismissing it.  "Didn't break immersion" is subjective so the line will vary by person.  However, the argument wasn't about immersion it was about a lack of consistency that broke immersion and it's been argued in at least 3 distinctly different ways, one I find valid, the other two I do not since the selectively cherry-pick consistency when its suits the position.


 

[Phaedon]

Mr Massakka wrote...
Actually,explosions are possible in space, the same as huge fireballs are. Just not the explosion sound. But let's not bring up that theme, this will probably lead us into 10 more pages of discussion.

Anyway, I don't recognize a single moment in the ME2 campaign where a vacuum protected suit would have been nessesary. Someone may want to give me an example?

Not in space, per se, just within the ME bubble that holds the oxygen,non?

Captain_Obvious_au wrote...

Personally I can't quite understand why people are trashing the 'realism is important' argument. I mean if aesthetics are more important than realism, why doesn't Shepard carry an ice-cream cone that fires snowflakes at the bad guys?

Because anyone who brings up the realism argument is either completely ignorant, or a massive hypocrite who would rather complain about "Herp Derp THEY ARE TURNING IT INTO A MICHAEL BAY FILM"

Oh wait.

You have brough the realism argument before, and breathing masks actually make sense in comparison to anything else in the MEverse.

Can we get back to "OMNI-BLADES LOOK LIKE LIGHTSABERS" now?

Terror_K wrote...
It's called "pseudoscience" Phaedon. Many sci-fi's use it and that's what gets them by. Star Trek alone is a scientifically inaccurate mess, but it works when it remains consistent with it own rules, even if they break real science as we know it for the most part. The worst episodes of the various series' tended to be the ones where they were inconsistent with previous lore (e.g. the episode where Barclay was seeing sock puppets in the transporter).

No, it's called science that should be disputed by a C student in junior highschool. Trekkies have actually attempted to explain Star Trek scientifically. If you had the same Trekkies try to explain Mass Effect, they'd probably jump off a window.

Consistent with its own rules? Are you kidding me?
Breathing masks don't even break modern science, let alone lore.

You are pulling everything off your ass. Nowhere in lore were oxygen masks banned, it's just an argument you bring up every time you don't like something.

Here's a tip:

Artists will sometimes make things that you DON'T LIKE.
Get it? Like? Not like. 

You can either get over it, or carry an entire community with 2 years of constant whining on non-issues, more appropriate to a spoiled 8 year old brat.

And you want to know what I mean by carry?
I am referring to the PM sitting in my inbox folder, of a moderator openly admitting to breaking forum rules because "'x group of people will turn it into a sh*tstorm sooner or later". 

Don't you dare have the nerve to ask sympathy from the rest of us.

It's not about adhering to hard science so much as to being consistent with its own pseudoscience. Beyond that, most sci-fi's acknowledge and respect the basic dangers of space, if only for the fact that these factors make great dramatic and dangerous moments and paint a hazardous, somewhat dark and mysterious universe fraught with danger where being in the wrong place during a distaster could be deadly just beause of where you are. You can't respect this tool and use it one moment (as a main plot point at that) and so cavalierly dismiss it like it doesn't matter the next. That's as absurd as suddenly treating ignoring gravity or having quarians in the third game wandering around without suits with no explanation in every scene they appear in.

The problem is that it adheres to hard science and the universe's pseudoscience at the same time.

Reptilian Rob wrote...
Pressure in space is mesured in negative units called "Pascal" or SI for short. Vacuum has zero pressure, but it's measured in negative units

Nice.

Modifié par Phaedon, 30 décembre 2011 - 01:26 .

[GodWood]

Someone With Mass wrote...
Oh no, they're wearing breather masks in an environment that could just be hard to breath in or simply have some poison gas which only affects people if they inhale it, not to mention that we have no idea about the context of that one screenshot.

This totally goes against everything they've told me about the proper clothing in Mass Effect, even though it has been minimal at best and they never established that there are alternatives, which somehow makes the alternatives invalid when they do show up.

Oh no, people are complaining about how they can't suspend their disbelief so much that they accept that characters can survive in hostile environment with only a breathing mask.

I'm going to post in a dismissive manner and suck up to Bioware because I'm a textbook Biodrone.

[Phaedon]

GodWood wrote...
Oh no, people are complaining about how they can't suspend their disbelief so much that they accept that characters can survive in hostile environment with only a breathing mask.

I'm going to post in a dismissive manner and suck up to Bioware because I'm a textbook Biodrone.

Like, pilots?

[Stalker]

didymos1120 wrote...

OK, here's something this thread has made me wonder: where do they store their apparently limitless oxygen supply in those form-fitting ME1 hardsuits anyway?

You have got a point there. Shepard has some kind of backpack, but thinking about the other characters...

Modifié par Mr Massakka, 30 décembre 2011 - 01:29 .

[Someone With Mass]

GodWood wrote...
Oh no, people are complaining about how they can't suspend their disbelief so much that they accept that characters can survive in hostile environment with only a breathing mask.

I'm going to post in a dismissive manner and suck up to Bioware because I'm a textbook Biodrone.

No, you belong to the whiny Cerberus Defense Force.

Not to mention that I've constantly showed you the gaping hole in your argument. We don't know the context of that screenshot and Shepard and Vega aren't wearing any helmets or masks, which could imply that there's a certain zone where the air is simply polluted or there is no oxygen beyond a certain door.

Oh, and I guess China got it all wrong when it comes to protecting themselves from polluted air, since they're also wearing breather masks. They should wear helmets instead.

[GodWood]

Phaedon wrote...

GodWood wrote...
Oh no, people are complaining about how they can't suspend their disbelief so much that they accept that characters can survive in hostile environment with only a breathing mask.

I'm going to post in a dismissive manner and suck up to Bioware because I'm a textbook Biodrone.

Like, pilots?

I couldn't think of a better blanket term that describes the types of environments that require the squad to 'suit up'.

Anyways, at least pilots have the decency to plug their mask into something.

[Phaedon]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...
Then you must be scientificly illiterate.

Because Dragon Teeth, Thermal Sinks and Indoctriantions are not bad science.

-Dragon Teeth are bad science, because they claim that they use metals found in the body to use as cybernetics. The human body isn't made up of 80% metals.

-Thermal Sinks are a tactical nightmare. The police and the army favour weapons that don't jam specifically to save their operatives in CQC.

-Indoctrination is indeed not bad science. If you live in the 1950s, and think that the television is directly installing ideas into your head.

As for element Zero, in a sci-fi epic there are a few liberties one MUST take. If htere is no FTL travel, then you can't have alien species.

Except that FTL travel can be supported by plausible hypotheses. FTL velocities can not, in an Einsteinian universe.

Element Zero has nothing to do with taking liberties. You didn't answer my point about mass modification. Element Zero is NOT an element.  Systems with no protons can exist. Elements with no protons are NOT elements.

There is a difference between Necessary Breaks From Reality - where an element MUST be there for the unvierse/setting to work, and completely unnecessary breaks that serve no real purpose (like spandex suits and breathing masks)

And you have yet to explain how either are unrealistic for an unorganized army.

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Phaedon wrote...
Except that in NO BioWare game, EVER, did you ever fight in space. Unless you don't know what space means either.

HAHAHAHAHA...

Your memory is very short-lived apparently.

Keeping my quote because every time someone confronts you with an argument, you just reply "HAHAHAHA NO".

Reading comprehension - you fail at it.

Actually, playing the game. YOU fail at it. I remember paying a small fortune for equipping myself with small armor mods and armor parts. Never was a variety of armor parts given to Shepard. Never did Cerberus supply squadmates with outfits. Just look at Garrus.

Should Cerberus not have given Shepard the Basic N7 Armor either, I assure you that s/he would also be running around in Juventus and Real Madrid tracksuits, like a real paid killer.

You do. But hey, why not follow you magic logic and ME fields magicly doing whatever you want them to.
Because clearly hte ME fields hold air in a gaint bubble around the ship - or do they? Wait...hm...nope, nothing in the codex about that.

Well, let's see. At no point during either of the games did every single object in the ship eject when the airlocks were opened. And a lot of airlocks were opened.

I do love who you especially left out me proving that even if you were right, Shepard would just feel a slight discomfort for a few seconds, not even serious swelling.

Modifié par Phaedon, 30 décembre 2011 - 01:58 .

[Phaedon]

GodWood wrote...
I couldn't think of a better blanket term that describes the types of environments that require the squad to 'suit up'.

Well, you are wrong. The guy who just called you a CDF moron a few posts above, already proved me wrong a few pages earlier and pointed out that the only hostile enviroment that would require masks is the chlorine gas planet. And the team reacts realistically to that.

Anyways, at least pilots have the decency to plug their mask into something.

I would assume that breathing masks are plugged into something. Like helmets in ME1.

[GodWood]

Someone With Mass wrote...
No, you belong to the whiny Cerberus Defense Force.

And proud.

Not to mention that I've constantly showed you the gaping hole in your argument. We don't know the context of that screenshot and Shepard and Vega aren't wearing any helmets or masks, which could imply that there's a certain zone where the air is simply polluted or there is no oxygen beyond a certain door.

I'm speaking in general terms. Bioware already had companions running in dangerous environments with little protection and they've confirmed they're continuing it.

Trying to dismiss peoples complaints by saying "Yeah well the context of this screen may not require a helmet" is foolish.

We both know what Bioware is doing.

[GodWood]

Phaedon wrote...
Well, you are wrong. The guy who just called you a CDF moron a few posts above, already proved me wrong a few pages earlier and pointed out that the only hostile enviroment that would require masks is the chlorine gas planet. And the team reacts realistically to that.

I can't imagine chlorine gas would be good on the eyes or the skin, and I can't imagine the ME team (as it is now) taking it into consideration or particularly caring.

Anyways, at least pilots have the decency to plug their mask into something.

I would assume that breathing masks are plugged into something. Like helmets in ME1.

Well they're not.

Modifié par GodWood, 30 décembre 2011 - 01:46 .

[Phaedon]

Darn it GodWood. If you think that Shepard is unresponsible for not supplying all of his squad with helmets, I want to hear your opinion on Mubarak and Gaddafi.

[GodWood]

Phaedon wrote...
Darn it GodWood. If you think that Shepard is unresponsible for not supplying all of his squad with helmets, I want to hear your opinion on Mubarak and Gaddafi.

Their poor helmet distribution is what ultimately led to their downfall.

Bioware should be learning from the mistakes of Mubarak and Guddafi, not repeating them!

[Phaedon]

[quote]GodWood wrote...I can't imagine chlorine gas would not be good on the eyes or the skin, and I can't imagine the ME team (as it is now) taking it into consideration or particularly caring.[/quote]
Chlorine gas bad for your skin? Indirectly. The particles left behind cause irriation to humans. As shown in-game.
Chlorine gas bad for your eyes? I don't know how bad the irritation is, but if they were wearing futuristic contact lenses, they shouldn't have a problem. Until we know about the quantities of chlorine particles released in the ecosystem, this is a non-issue, which falls under the trope of "things that need not be explained".

[quote]Well they're not.[/quote]
Go and complain about Shepard not instantly suffocating in ME1 then.

I am just toying with you, by the way. We already know that the air tank is that bulk in the back of the armor, and even Samara has it.
[/quote]

[AgitatedLemon]

didymos1120 wrote...

OK, here's something this thread has made me wonder: where do they store their apparently limitless oxygen supply in those form-fitting ME1 hardsuits anyway?

See those tubes on the back of the helmets?

I'd assume wherever they lead to. They seem to be rebreather tubes.