905 réponses à ce sujet

[Phaedon]

GodWood wrote...

Phaedon wrote...
Darn it GodWood. If you think that Shepard is unresponsible for not supplying all of his squad with helmets, I want to hear your opinion on Mubarak and Gaddafi.

Their poor helmet distribution is what ultimately led to their downfall.

Bioware should be learning from the mistakes of Mubarak and Guddafi, not repeating them!

Wait. 

Mubarak and Gaddafi were dictators.
They didn't  give their best troops enough helmets.
Mubarak and Gaddafi fell.

TIM doesn't give his best troops enough helmets.
TIM will fall in ME3.

What should I deduce by that?

[AgitatedLemon]

Phaedon wrote...

GodWood wrote...

Phaedon wrote...
Darn it GodWood. If you think that Shepard is unresponsible for not supplying all of his squad with helmets, I want to hear your opinion on Mubarak and Gaddafi.

Their poor helmet distribution is what ultimately led to their downfall.

Bioware should be learning from the mistakes of Mubarak and Guddafi, not repeating them!

Wait. 

Mubarak and Gaddafi were dictators.
They didn't  give their best troops enough helmets.
Mubarak and Gaddafi fell.

TIM doesn't give his best troops enough helmets.
TIM will fall in ME3.

What should I deduce by that?

But the Cerberus troops in ME3 DO have helmets.

Mind = F*cked.

[Someone With Mass]

GodWood wrote...

Trying to dismiss peoples complaints by saying "Yeah well the context of this screen may not require a helmet" is foolish.

We both know what Bioware is doing.

Do we now?

What if they simply don't have s a need for a hard helmet, since there's no environment that requires it?

Most destinations are usually populated areas where there's no need for either helmets or masks and the few that do more than likely aren't filled with evaporated acids.

[Phaedon]

AgitatedLemon wrote...
But the Cerberus troops in ME3 DO have helmets.

Mind = F*cked.

Well, that supports the theory that TIM was kicked off Cerberus.

[Dean_the_Young]

Quick question:

Do we at least get an option for a helmet? Or is the breathing mask mandatory?

[Phaedon]

Dean_the_Young wrote...

Quick question:

Do we at least get an option for a helmet? Or is the breathing mask mandatory?

I think that it was confirmed that squadmates wear helmets, normally, and you can optionally remove them. Check the KF thread, it is bound to be there somewhere.

[nitefyre410]

elitecom wrote...

nitefyre410 wrote...
Its not about trashing ... its about prioties and the  Mass Hysteria  and epic 10.000 word  "I cancelling my pre-order cause you broke immersion, Bioware you suck"   temper tanturms that some seem to go on  about  something  at the end of the day  has no real effect  on the story. Meanwhile  others things that could be talked about  - like  development of the plot,  the Red and Blue morality system,  how bad the  squad AI  for instance.   Please  don't sit there and try  convince  me that better character development,  and  fixing some of other miss steps that  ME 2 made are some how less important than... breathing mask. 

Want to know a real immersion breaker for me...

Setting up my squad in nice good positon  and then have  them jump out directly into  fire and get themselves killed and now I'm stuck with my balls dangling in the wind with no team to cover me... because of broke Squad  AI.

Drove me nuts

Well believe it or not people have different things they worry about. Some are worried about how breathing masks ruin the immersion for them, while others like yourself have other worries. The best thing is to just respect each others worries or problems, there's no objective feature or detail that is more important than any other. It's all subjective.

What you really should do is start your own thread where you open a discussion for how you consider the squad AI to be flawed and needs fixing instead of going to this thread here and wasting your energy trying to make fun of other peoples' worries or telling them how other features or details are more or less valid to talk about.

Just a suggestion. 
 
Focus on what you consider to be important.

 

Believe or not  broke squad AI in a game built around squad based takes Trumps issues of breath masking... its like a have a nice shiny car with no wheels.  The asethic of the breathing mask is subjective yes... but the importance of  AI working right  and if this is more important  or not more than the astethics of breaking mask.. is not.

Video's games are story telling medium where playing the game move the story foward and if the game play of the game does not work in a way that allows the player to enjoy and then see the rest of the story.

 

[Nerevar-as]

I just assumed the gas mask actually works as an oxigen recycler and tried not to think whether that would be enough to breath properly under combat conditions.

The point is BW understimated what many players would accept in ME2 either for rule of cool or not caring (I just can´t believe they thought people with SS background wouldn´t mind no referenreces to it while working for Cerberus). Now they know, but they believe showing off facial animations is better. Why they couldn´t use transparent faceplates escapes me.

[Savber100]

Now if only ME3 was moddable then everything would be solved. 

Modifié par Savber100, 30 décembre 2011 - 02:04 .

[nitefyre410]

Savber100 wrote...

Now if only ME3 was moddable then everything would be solved. 

 


So can I mod Liara... bland personality... wait.. I can't   ZOMG MAH IMMERISON ... cancelling my pre-order

[Captain_Obvious_au]

Phaedon wrote...

Dean_the_Young wrote...

Quick question:

Do we at least get an option for a helmet? Or is the breathing mask mandatory?

I think that it was confirmed that squadmates wear helmets, normally, and you can optionally remove them. Check the KF thread, it is bound to be there somewhere.

I'd be interested about that as well. It doesn't quite gel with what Chris said early in the thread, so I'm a bit unsure as to how the system is going to work in ME3.

[Andorfiend]

nitefyre410 wrote...

Believe or not  broke squad AI in a game built around squad based takes Trumps issues of breath masking... its like a have a nice shiny car with no wheels.  The asethic of the breathing mask is subjective yes... but the importance of  AI working right  and if this is more important  or not more than the astethics of breaking mask.. is not.

Video's games are story telling medium where playing the game move the story foward and if the game play of the game does not work in a way that allows the player to enjoy and then see the rest of the story. 

*shrug* I'm always vaugely surprised when my squaddies actually manage to kill something on their own. As far as gameplay goes I'm more concerned about sniper rifles targeting some randon rivet on the ceiling rather than the guy whose head was dead center in my sights before I hit the zoom button.

Breath masks annoy me, but are not a game breaker. They might however be a symptom of something that would be an absolute game breaker, which would be BW not taking their own IP seriously. That's what happened to Lucas. And if it happens here it wil be tragic. And I don't know if it's happening or not. ME 2 left me very confused on that count, and frankly I have yet to see a dev say anything to comfort me.

[Il Divo]

iakus wrote...

Lore is lore. It's what should make a game consistent to begin with. Lore wise there is no reason why an asari should have a hard time surviving a blizzard on Noveria but can get along fine in a storm on Hagalaz.

Not for me. I don't consider all lore to be created equal. I'm interested in some aspects far more than others, which affects how I perceive it.Some is essential to establishing a sensible setting. That is why turning the Asari into humans will never work. Some of it is extreneous and merely a stylistic issue. That is what armored hardsuits occupy.

If a game adhers to its lore then it is consistent. "Make your rules, then abide by them" Like I said, I'd have less problems with this if they never pretended that armor and helmets mattered. But they did. And then ditched it.

And the only places where I really consider it to have been a problem is a few lines in a codex entry. As I said, tiers of lore.

I don't know what "the rules" were in the Star Wars universe regarding vacuum prior to ESB. It hadn't been addressed at that point.

Come on, you know the rules. They're the same as our rules. Typically, the approach taken with any fantasy setting is that it follows our world's logic, unless it's shown to be otherwise. Star Wars never establishes, from any narrative perspective, that vacuums don't exist. Indeed, in other games, such as KotOR, this is shown to be the exact opposite. This is why people say "X is impossible", when criticizing any genre for scientific inaccuracies. I highly doubt that when you first played Dragon Age, you expected gravity to be non-existent, for example. If no exposition is provided to explain the change in science, then it's a contradiction.

The difference here is that the Mass Effect universe has already acknowledged that vacuum exists. Remember the walk up the side of the Citadel? How well do you think that would have gone with Jack and Miranda as teammates? Same with the lunar base. Noveria, and any number of UNC missions. Enviromental hazards exist. Shepard died at the start of ME2 due at least in part to a suit rupture. That's a key moment in the trilogy. Then they pretty much forget about that danger until Arrival.

This is not overlooking a detail, or a momentary oversight. This is is willfull disregard. within its own narrative.

See above. Artistic license and plot armor is how I view it. On Noveria, Jack or Miranda would be completely fine until the plot/writer demanded that the environment affect them.

Modifié par Il Divo, 30 décembre 2011 - 02:22 .

[Andorfiend]

Il Divo wrote...

See above. Artistic license and plot armor is how I view it. On Noveria, Jack or Miranda would be completely fine until the plot/writer demanded that the environment affect them.

Meh. Jack would have been fine on Noveria. She has her hate and tattoos to keep her warm.

[nitefyre410]

Andorfiend wrote...

nitefyre410 wrote...

Believe or not  broke squad AI in a game built around squad based takes Trumps issues of breath masking... its like a have a nice shiny car with no wheels.  The asethic of the breathing mask is subjective yes... but the importance of  AI working right  and if this is more important  or not more than the astethics of breaking mask.. is not.

Video's games are story telling medium where playing the game move the story foward and if the game play of the game does not work in a way that allows the player to enjoy and then see the rest of the story. 

*shrug* I'm always vaugely surprised when my squaddies actually manage to kill something on their own. As far as gameplay goes I'm more concerned about sniper rifles targeting some randon rivet on the ceiling rather than the guy whose head was dead center in my sights before I hit the zoom button.

Breath masks annoy me, but are not a game breaker. They might however be a symptom of something that would be an absolute game breaker, which would be BW not taking their own IP seriously. That's what happened to Lucas. And if it happens here it wil be tragic. And I don't know if it's happening or not. ME 2 left me very confused on that count, and frankly I have yet to see a dev say anything to comfort me.

 

I have to agree  though I am Vanguard player so I need my  squads mates  with Sniper Rifle  Like Garrus and  Thane to  stay in the postions to lay down cover whilist I got  town and be all "RAWR "

Honestly the  more I hear  the more iffy I get but thats also some of me  keeping my expectations  from getting too high to the point where even if  ME 3 is great  I wouldn't  be satisfied ... Im still going to get the game and reserve  judgement  I till then.


As far  as Lucus and Star Wars hardcore fans... well I have choice words for them both  and they ain't all that nice. 

Though I do enough the delicious Irony that  storied and beloved Jedi turned  to be morons and too prideful  and engineered they own down fall.

That being said I like KOTR  universe alot better than the Original.

Modifié par nitefyre410, 30 décembre 2011 - 02:32 .

[Il Divo]

Kakistos_ wrote...

This is a side note question of curiosity about "If Bioware suddenly rewrote how Biotics worked to allow for
teleportation, invisibility, and mind control, I'm going to take issue." I'm not trolling I'm genuinely curious about your opinion of the Reave and Dominate Powers in ME2 with regards to your post.

Great question. And this might sound completely idiotic, but I have three different ways that I typically look at it. Let's consider Vanguard charge as an example.

1)  The satisfaction of watching Shepard clash into a merc headfist is cool enough that I don't mind the breach in logic of how element zero works, especially since it's not really given any lore reference and exists only in gameplay.

2) Charge makes zero sense in the ME universe and the devs screwed up through its inclusion.

3) Try to justify it. "Charge" is really just Shepard lowering his mass to move faster, then dramatically increasing it at the last second to give an ultra punch. The beam of light thing is just for dramatic effect.

My opinion on it is some weird mix-up of the three. Reave kinda has the same problem, but Dominate (as presented) seems to be an Ardat-Yakshi ability more than a natural biotic talent. I think there's a way of giving it to other characters but similar to how you can give a non-biotic Shepard biotic talents in ME1, I try to avoid these little "holes".

Modifié par Il Divo, 30 décembre 2011 - 05:00 .

[Ruud333]

It's been a while since I played ME2, but are there any areas of the game which are actually set in a complete vacuum, or have gases that harm unprotected skin, eyes etc, or have extreme high/lows of temparature?

[SovietCyborg]

Like breathing in space or an hostile atmosphere will be the end of your problems...space radiation, overheating, unprotected sunlight exposure (which will made you permanently blind in one second), corrosive gases, different temperatures, different pressures etc.etc.etc. The only reason why breathing mask are used is for artistic license, nothing more.

No, Mass Effect field is not the answer given that you lose it in combat and not every squadmate uses it. Besides, who doesn't want extra protection?

[Il Divo]

Andorfiend wrote...

Il Divo wrote...

See above. Artistic license and plot armor is how I view it. On Noveria, Jack or Miranda would be completely fine until the plot/writer demanded that the environment affect them.

Meh. Jack would have been fine on Noveria. She has her hate and tattoos to keep her warm.

Indeed she does. Although it does become kinda difficult to fight the elements. They don't really tire out the way we organics do.

[Someone With Mass]

AwesomeName wrote...

I wonder why those tubes disappeared in ME2.  The helmets look wierd without them.

Probably because they're a tactical weakness. One stray bullet to those tubes and you'll choke to death.

[ODST 5723]

More likely, they were deemed uncessary as part of the art style.

The tubes were very retro sci-fi

[Lotion Soronarr]

[quote]Phaedon wrote...

[quote]Lotion Soronnar wrote...
Then you must be scientificly illiterate.

Because Dragon Teeth, Thermal Sinks and Indoctriantions are not bad science.[/quote]
-Dragon Teeth are bad science, because they claim that they use metals found in the body to use as cybernetics. The human body isn't made up of 80% metals.[/quote]

Since when does huskification turn the entire body into metal?
Cybernetic implants/additons/nanobots compromise a relatively small poart fohte body.
And I really don't know where the metal comes from, cna'trecall reading about that.

[quote]
-Thermal Sinks are a tactical nightmare. The police and the army favour weapons that don't jam specifically to save their operatives in CQC.[/quote]

And waiting 5 hours for you gun to cool off is a even worse nightmare. And before you say it only takes a second for a guin to cool off - gameplay.

[quote]
-Indoctrination is indeed not bad science. If you live in the 1950s, and think that the television is directly installing ideas into your head.[/quote]

Given that no explanation is given on how indoctrinationworks, how can you claim it's BS?


[quote]
[quote]As for element Zero, in a sci-fi epic there are a few liberties one MUST take. If htere is no FTL travel, then you can't have alien species.[/quote]
Except that FTL travel can be supported by plausible hypotheses. FTL velocities can not, in an Einsteinian universe.

Element Zero has nothing to do with taking liberties. You didn't answer my point about mass modification. Element Zero is NOT an element.  Systems with no protons can exist. Elements with no protons are NOT elements.[/quote]

As I said - acceptable breaks from reality. They needed unobtanium for their universe. True, they could have picked a better one, but either way they'd have one.



[quote]
[quote]There is a difference between Necessary Breaks From Reality - where an element MUST be there for the unvierse/setting to work, and completely unnecessary breaks that serve no real purpose (like spandex suits and breathing masks)[/quote]
And you have yet to explain how either are unrealistic for an unorganized army.[/quote]

Unorganized army? Sheps team iswell funded. You dont' have to be amercenaryor professional soldier to have enough brains to wear armor.
Would you complain ifShepsteam charaged with jsut sticks, evne tough there are guns available? After all, they aren't professional soldiers and there are some armies in 3rd world countries where soldiers run around with machetes


[quote]
Keeping my quote because every time someone confronts you with an argument, you just reply "HAHAHAHA NO".[/quote]

What argument? You mean your lies?

Also, regardingthe derelict reaper - Shep destroyed the Ezoocore. The ME field collapsed and the reapers was pulled into the dwarf. So what exactly was holding the air in when they jumped from ship to ship?




[quote]
[quote]Reading comprehension - you fail at it.[/quote]
Actually, playing the game. YOU fail at it. I remember paying a small fortune for equipping myself with small armor mods and armor parts. Never was a variety of armor parts given to Shepard. Never did Cerberus supply squadmates with outfits. Just look at Garrus.

Should Cerberus not have given Shepard the Basic N7 Armor either, I assure you that s/he would also be running around in Juventus and Real Madrid tracksuits, like a real paid killer.[/quote]

Missing the point and failing again. The game didn't make any other armor availalbe for squadmates is EXACTLY the problem.




[quote]
[quote]You do. But hey, why not follow you magic logic and ME fields magicly doing whatever you want them to.
Because clearly hte ME fields hold air in a gaint bubble around the ship - or do they? Wait...hm...nope, nothing in the codex about that.
[/quote]
Well, let's see. At no point during either of the games did every single object in the ship eject when the airlocks were opened. And a lot of airlocks were opened.

I do love who you especially left out me proving that even if you were right, Shepard would just feel a slight discomfort for a few seconds, not even serious swelling.
[/quote]

a) magentism.
a different kind of field
c) If youre going out in space, one really should count that it will be only for a few seconds and thus no sealedsuit is needed. You are boarding a ship. the enemy cna decompress the entire deck and launch you into space at any time.
What kind of collosal moron goes onto a hostile ship naked?

[ODST 5723]

Jack would

So would the honey badger

Modifié par ODST 5723, 30 décembre 2011 - 04:21 .