905 réponses à ce sujet

[crimzontearz]

Bioware usually listens (I made whole threads about it) but rarely about apparel....I mean come on look at the DA2 debacle

[nitefyre410]

jreezy wrote...

nitefyre410 wrote...

Want to know a real immersion breaker for me...

Setting up my squad in nice good positon  and then have  them jump out directly into  fire and get themselves killed and now I'm stuck with my balls dangling in the wind with no team to cover me... because of broke Squad  AI.

Drove me nuts

I made a thread complaining about such a thing but it has been dead for four months so I'm not sure if I should revive it. The Squad AI issue is worthy of it's own thread, you should make one.

 

at this point not really the game is already pretty much made - there won't be making any  groundbreaking  overhauls this late...

[Nashiktal]

Masks break my immersion indeed, but that in itself isn't that HUGE of a problem and normally I would barely even notice the masks.

However I am constantly told by game design that vacuum and other environmental concerns are a real and present thing in ME2. For example shep venting atmosphere out of his hardsuit and dying (and being forced to wear nothing but helmets and his hardsuit despite having other helmets that could work with a mask).

If all of my squadmates (some of whom are physically weaker or even have illnesses) can survive just fine in such extreme environs (or at least by biowares logic can seem like doing so without hurting immersion) why can't shep? If you say its because shep can't survive a vacuum or he would look silly doing so it goes straight back into why the squademats  wearing it is immersion breaking.

Its a mixture of Bellisario's maxim and the MST3k mantra and it doesn't fit well to me.

Modifié par Nashiktal, 30 décembre 2011 - 05:50 .

[ODST 5723]

The Recon Hood is not a helmet

[Nashiktal]

ODST 5723 wrote...

The Recon Hood is not a helmet

Nope but it is a fully sealed mask that obscures facial features. (Which bioware wants to show off apparently, which again leads into the conflicting ideals)

While we are on the subject why can't we have a full see through "helmet" instead? Similar to what joker had at the opening of ME2. That shouldn't interfere with too many costumes and would do great to preserve immersion.

Modifié par Nashiktal, 30 décembre 2011 - 06:07 .

[ODST 5723]

Because we have the Recon Hood... unless we were from overseas and not eligible for the Dr. Pepper promotion.

I got kissed through it and drank massive amounts of alcohol through it.  It's a hood of lies and fits your head like nobody's business.

Modifié par ODST 5723, 30 décembre 2011 - 06:09 .

[Nashiktal]

ODST 5723 wrote...

Because we have the Recon Hood... unless we were from overseas and not eligible for the Dr. Pepper promotion.

I got kissed through it and drank massive amounts of alcohol through it.  It's a hood of lies and fits your head like nobody's business.

You do the same thing with the deathmask, which is part of the game.

[Iakus]

bennyjammin79 wrote...

Does anybody know why Liara is wearing the evil breathing mask in the picture that started this latest outburst of sperm-retention fueled nerdrage? She could've for example just come from a room full of CO or countless other scenarios. For all we know, there could still be helmets for places where they're a necessity. Bioware can't have simply ignored how hilarious it would be to wear no eye protection on a planet with say... a chlorine atmosphere. Could they have?

So did Casey Hudson (or anyone else from Bioware for that matter) tweet that Liara and other squadmates will have different types of headgear for different situations?

Did Mass Effect 2 have that?

Get back to me if either of those questions can be answered with a "yes"

[Nashiktal]

Saphra Deden wrote...

I think the breathing masks are a bad choice. I understand the desire to keep the character's faces visible, and in that case I ask why something like a helmet with a clear glass-plate on the front wasn't used instead. Something like Shepard's Cerberus armor from ME2.

Best of both worlds, right?

Indeed. It helps keep immersion, we get to see the facial features bioware worked so hard on, and it harkens back to the more "retro" sci fi feel in my opinion.

[ODST 5723]

Nashiktal wrote...

ODST 5723 wrote...

Because we have the Recon Hood... unless we were from overseas and not eligible for the Dr. Pepper promotion.

I got kissed through it and drank massive amounts of alcohol through it.  It's a hood of lies and fits your head like nobody's business.

You do the same thing with the deathmask, which is part of the game.

You do the same with any headgear that covers the mouth.

Those helmets aren't and simply cannot match the taste, grace and class of the Recon Hood.

[Iakus]

Il Divo wrote...

Not for me. I don't consider all lore to be created equal. I'm interested in some aspects far more than others, which affects how I perceive it.Some is essential to establishing a sensible setting. That is why turning the Asari into humans will never work. Some of it is extreneous and merely a stylistic issue. That is what armored hardsuits occupy.

Hardsuit and helmet design and coloration may be "stylistic issues" but the fact that they exist and are used is not.  The walk up the Citadel is proof of why they are worn.  Shepard's death shows the price for not having a proper seal.  the Bioware teams go through all the trouble of providing descriptions of planets, including temperature and atmosphere.  You gonna be the one to tell them that's an utter waste of time?

Come on, you know the rules. They're the same as our rules. Typically, the approach taken with any fantasy setting is that it follows our world's logic, unless it's shown to be otherwise. Star Wars never establishes, from any narrative perspective, that vacuums don't exist. Indeed, in other games, such as KotOR, this is shown to be the exact opposite. This is why people say "X is impossible", when criticizing any genre for scientific inaccuracies. I highly doubt that when you first played Dragon Age, you expected gravity to be non-existent, for example. If no exposition is provided to explain the change in science, then it's a contradiction.

Well, if we're bringing the EU into it, then yes, vacuum exists in the the Star Wars universe.  And the asteroid scene is an early sign of Lucas's insantiy;)

See above. Artistic license and plot armor is how I view it. On Noveria, Jack or Miranda would be completely fine until the plot/writer demanded that the environment affect them.

Someone on the BSN for a while had a sig quote:  "It's one thing to suspend disbelief.  It's another to hang it by the neck until dead"  Is exposed skin dangerous on the Flotilla or not?  Is it a really bad thing to be in the upper atmosphere of a brown dwarf when the barriers go down or not?  Is chlorine gas dangerous to the eyes and skin or not?  Kinda funny how everyone had to suit up on Binthu in ME1, but didn't for Tarith in ME2.

I can't "just go with it" when Bioware insists on being inconsistent with its own rules or simply doesn't care as long as it looks cool.  Artistic license only goes so far.

[ODST 5723]

iakus wrote...
Hardsuit and helmet design and coloration may be "stylistic issues" but the fact that they exist and are used is not.  The walk up the Citadel is proof of why they are worn.

No.  We discussed that while you were gone.

iakus wrote...
Shepard's death shows the price for not having a proper seal.

Shepard's trip through the atmosphere would like to have a talk with you.

[ArkkAngel007]

Star Wars, Star Trek, Firefly/Serenity, Titan A.E.; all of these have huge mistakes in the fields of science, but who really cares? They are meant to entertain with their story, just like Mass Effect. Being a science major, some things do bug me, but does it really matter when there are things such as FTL, Mass Relays, and giant sentient bio-machines?

[Iakus]

Ruud333 wrote...

It's been a while since I played ME2, but are there any areas of the game which are actually set in a complete vacuum, or have gases that harm unprotected skin, eyes etc, or have extreme high/lows of temparature?

Blood_Pack_Communications_Relay Shepard and squad get to wander around in what's described as a "chlorine swamp"


Anomalous_Weather_Detected Planet's Surface temp:  99 C

Blood_Pack_Base  Surface temperature 94 C  Crust rich in uranium, which combined with erosion, leads to "radioactive dust storms"

Eclipse_Smuggling_Depot Surface temperature -66C

Quarian_Crash_Site Planet described as "nearly atmosphereless" Though I will grant there is an inhabitable zone.  That may just be referring t the temperature though.  

Wrecked_Merchant_Freighter Planet has a "thin nitrogen atmosphere" Surface temperature -25C


Also ther is a brief period of time on the Derelict Reaper where Shepard and the squad are on board while it's barriers are down in the upper atmosphere of a brown dwarf.  Sounds unhealthy.

In addition, the Heretic Base in Legion's loyalty mission is described as having "little latmosphere or gravity"  How oittle is "little" has been grounds for speculation.

Also, exposed skin on the Migrant Fleet is supposed to be a Bad Thing.

Edit:  I do not include Tuchanka here as I am assuming everything takes place within the shrouded habitable area maintained by the Council Demilitarization Enforcement Mission

Modifié par iakus, 30 décembre 2011 - 07:32 .

[Iakus]

ODST 5723 wrote...

iakus wrote...
Hardsuit and helmet design and coloration may be "stylistic issues" but the fact that they exist and are used is not.  The walk up the Citadel is proof of why they are worn.

No.  We discussed that while you were gone.

So that wasn't a spacewalk up the side of the CItadel?  

iakus wrote...
Shepard's death shows the price for not having a proper seal.

Shepard's trip through the atmosphere would like to have a talk with you.

If Shepard wasn't dead by the time he hit the ground, he likely would have been in moments.  So he's doubly dead.

Modifié par iakus, 30 décembre 2011 - 09:15 .

[Fixers0]

I was going to make a long rant post about how and why i dislike Breather maks and the principle behind it, but i decided that wasn't worth the effort thus i shall just give my humble opinion about those things.

Breather masks can f*ck off and rot in the depths of you-know-where.

[Sgt Stryker]

iakus wrote...

ODST 5723 wrote...

iakus wrote...
Hardsuit and helmet design and coloration may be "stylistic issues" but the fact that they exist and are used is not.  The walk up the Citadel is proof of why they are worn.

No.  We discussed that while you were gone.

So that wasn't a spacewalk up the side of the CItadel?  

It became a spacewalk the second Shepard blasted open the elevator's window.

Modifié par Sgt Stryker, 30 décembre 2011 - 08:49 .

[Xeranx]

ArkkAngel007 wrote...

Star Wars, Star Trek, Firefly/Serenity, Titan A.E.; all of these have huge mistakes in the fields of science, but who really cares? They are meant to entertain with their story, just like Mass Effect. Being a science major, some things do bug me, but does it really matter when there are things such as FTL, Mass Relays, and giant sentient bio-machines?

At the very least, Joss Whedon owns up to the fact that he doesn't know much about science to make realistic science fiction or something along those lines.  He's there to tell the story.  If anyone wanted to call BS on his work, after that they'd have to say, "well...ok I'll take a look."

[Xerxes52]

Here's a solution:

Helmets with transparent face-plates that show off the whole face. It's the best of both worlds.

Modifié par Xerxes52, 30 décembre 2011 - 09:03 .

[Someone With Mass]

Sgt Stryker wrote...
It became a spacewalk the second Shepard blasted open the elevator's window.

It's why he told the squad to suit up before he did it.

[Lotion Soronarr]

nitefyre410 wrote...
Believe or not  broke squad AI in a game built around squad based takes
Trumps issues of breath masking... its like a have a nice shiny car with
no wheels.  The asethic of the breathing mask is subjective yes... but
the importance of  AI working right  and if this is more important  or
not more than the astethics of breaking mask.. is not.

Just FYI - AI is done by differnet people.
There's no resource competition in this case.
Also, people give different importance to different things.

Video's games are story telling medium where playing the game move the story foward and if the game play of the game does not work in a way that allows the player to enjoy and then see the rest of the story.

Personally, I can suffer trough bad AI and UI issues if the story is good.If I'm not interested inthe setting/story/core idea, I wont' even look at a game. Go figure.

[Lotion Soronarr]

Il Divo wrote...

If a game adhers to its lore then it is consistent. "Make your rules, then abide by them" Like I said, I'd have less problems with this if they never pretended that armor and helmets mattered. But they did. And then ditched it.

And the only places where I really consider it to have been a problem is a few lines in a codex entry. As I said, tiers of lore.

More like tiers of common sense.

Artistic license and plot armor is how I view it

Artistic license cango too far and ruin the work too...

Modifié par Lotion Soronnar, 30 décembre 2011 - 09:48 .

[HiroVoid]

crimzontearz wrote...

Bioware usually listens (I made whole threads about it) but rarely about apparel....I mean come on look at the DA2 debacle

Actually, I remember a quote by the doctors saying they realized after DA2 how important side-character custimization is to some people.  Basically, Dragon Age can't get away with the same stuff ME does because DAO was marketed as an old-school game, so the crowds are a bit different.

[ediskrad327]

this makes me wonder what happened when this was on TV