905 réponses à ce sujet

[Savber100]

Terror_K wrote...

Phaedon wrote...

No, it's called science that should be disputed by a C student in junior highschool. Trekkies have actually attempted to explain Star Trek scientifically. If you had the same Trekkies try to explain Mass Effect, they'd probably jump off a window.

Please... Star Trek is far worse than Mass Effect. At least until Mass Effect 2 came along.

Ok I have to ask...

Which is worse for you: 

Mass Effect 2 or the Star Trek reboot? :happy:

[JeffZero]

Red matter definitely takes the cake if you're allowing outside opinions into the debate here.

[Bleachrude]

Terror_K wrote...


The overall point here is, there's no excuse for it.

And again, this is where I think you are wrong. Indeed, one of the criticisms on the graphics side of the ME2 game was that there were obvious parts where they used the Sheploo model as the "standard" and the femshep was simply substituted and you could tell because the femshep model was kind of "off" with regard to objects especially in cutscenes and this was the main character.

I don't like it personally but I actually understand WHY they might be reluctant to use resources on it. Especially with character designs like Jack. Even if Jack did have a hardsuit and helmets, the amount of other squadmates meant once you recruited her, you literally did not need to take her off the ship. Hell, you don't even need to complete her loyalty mission to have Jack survive the SM. Throw in the relatively quick turn around time between ME1 and ME2 and there's no way if I was project lead I would signed off of spending resources on creating hardsuit and ship clothes model

This of course goes to a criticism of ME2 that I fully agree with - too many characters and thus less time spent on each character.

EDIT: Even ME2, while moving down from the mid 4 on the Mohs scale of science fiction, is still a mid to high 3. Trek, AT BEST is a high 2.

With regard to Liara, I personally dont think the breather mask is that big an issue because again, it assumes that Asari skin reacts the same way as human skin. Keep in mind that asari literally can eat eezo whereas most cases of eezo exposure result in problems for humans. In a universe where asari can mate with anyone via touching (including hanar and volus and they are poisonous to humans), I'm thinking their skin isn't as delicate as ours.

Modifié par Bleachrude, 31 décembre 2011 - 07:05 .

[Gabey5]

tbh i dont really care

[ediskrad327]

Gabey5 wrote...

tbh i dont really care

HOW DARE YOU NOT CARE ABOUT THE THING THAT WILL RUIN MASS EFFECT FOR EVER!? >



nah jk

[Burdokva]

It's bothersome how often BioWare describes its own forum as a "vocal minority", yet it has seemed to give in and basically stuffed all of those romance requests (in an action game)... ask about a simply, SIMPLE headgear toggle between a breathing mask and a full helmet, and you have Priestly swooping down, acting rude again.

One of the fundamental things of a role-paying game is giving the player choice. If we want the choice to hide NPC under the same armors and full headgear, why not? Is it that hard to implement?

Seriusly, why do I even need to explain this to a supposed RPG developer?!

Yeah, great way to go, BioWare.

[Sgt Stryker]

Terror_K wrote...

Can you make helmets that still expose most of the face? Answer: Yes. There are even a couple for Shepard in ME2, and plenty of people have posted images on these forums before with bubble-faced dome helmets and other variations that still reveal most of the characters' face beyond the visor.

The overall point here is, there's no excuse for it.

All the Normandy crew has to do is steal a few flight suits from the Battlestar Galactica, and everyone will be happy. Well, except for the Galactica's pilots, of course.

[didymos1120]

Burdokva wrote...

It's bothersome how often BioWare describes its own forum as a "vocal minority"...

They do?  Most of the time I've seen that phrase used, it's been a fan using it. 

[DaJe]

Ok, I just have to give my two...or three Cents on this topic now. 
 
The
dangers of space and alien planets have been a common theme throughout
science fiction. You could call it common ground. It is something we are
familiar with. It is also part of the excitement and the adventure. The
intro of Mass Effect 2 brilliantly captures that excitement and
atmosphere.  
 
Faster than light travel, aliens, shields/barriers
etc. are also common ground. These things can at least be explained
rudimentarily as things that could possibly happen in the future. 
Aliens with humanoid bodies? -> Reaper influenced evolution, successful bipedal form, etc. 
Faster than Light travel? -> Bending space time. 
Shields? -> Already exist in less advanced form. 
 
Stepping
into the vacuum of space or any vacuum, or onto a planet with toxic
atmosphere and extreme temperatures with exposed skin and eyes? 
....There is no excuse, not even by a long shot. Just silly Bugs Bunny logic. 
 
This
is no hard science, not a tiny little detail. It goes against
fundamental understanding of physics and biology. It goes against the
internal logic of the Mass Effect universe, which started as a future
vision of our reality and not an alternative universe that differs
drastically from ours. 
Ignoring a "detail" like that in a science
fiction adventure that is based on our reality is similar to a war movie
where the main character takes multiple bullets to the head without a
problem or a rally racing game where all cars have 100% grip on the road
or a FIFA game where players can ignore gravity. 
 
Then there is
the already mentioned broken internal logic of the Mass Effect universe
with Shepards dramatic death being trivialized through characters like
Jack walking around naked without a problem in any environment. You have
Liara telling you the Shadow Brokers ship is on a planet where the
oceans area boiling during the day and frozen during the night and
seconds later you see her with exposed skin and eyes in just that
environment. Things like that are immersion killers, plot holes and most
of all completely unnecessary. 
 
I see people making excuses
like you don't die as fast as in many movies. So? Still, none in their
right mind, specially not when they are professionals, the best the
galaxy has to offer would expose them self like that for absolutely no
other reason than looking more sexy for the under aged viewer. 
Mass
Effect fields and Barriers? Terror_K already said it: Barriers only
protect against fast moving objects, also the underwear clothing does
not have any energy source (and the breathing masks don't go anywhere).
Mass Effect fields need a lot of effort/energy to hold up. They would
never be an efficient, stable and save alternative to just putting on
skintight sealed clothing/armor. The armor designs in Mass Effect are
not clunky and hindering movement, there is no reason not to make use of
them. 
But I want to see the face animations! Helmets with windows.
Also, BioWare has worked hard to hide the faces as much as possible in
Mass Effect through helmets that wont go off and an extreme visor fetish
that aims to hide every single characters eyes for no apparent reason. 
It's
unrealistic when helmets just appear and disappear. Contraction
technology. Also it wasn't really a big problem in Mass Effect 1 or
Dragon Age was it? I too would like to see the characters faces in
environments where it makes sense. Having locations where everyone is
sealed up and locations where they are more open just adds to the
diversity of the game and makes each different occasion more engaging. 
 
 
When
the game contradicts it self so much while going against basic logic
and an important feature of the science fiction genre I find it really
hard to get involved into the story. You can have the most emotional
death scenes and deep dialog and character development, but it all
becomes much harder to take seriously when you as a player can't know
what is real or not. When you have to ask your self questions like "Why
doesn't Shepard just speak the magic world that makes all Reapers
explode?" when apparently anything is possible. 
 
It is really
not that hard to do. Mass Effect 1 had no problem with this topic.
Stylish looking combat and environmental equipment that seals the whole
body is very possible, specially with the fantastic Mass Effect art design. 
 
Lastly
I not only find that everything that happens in the story, everything
the visual and audio artists try to do in terms of immersion is made
less believable and thus less engaging through an unnecessarily
crumbling fundament of logic and a resulting failure of suspension of
disbelief.
It is also the sense of space exploration adventure the
franchise is more and more neglecting that I feel is missing. What other
game could even come so close to make you really feel you are stepping
on another planet? 
This is a unique strength Mass Effect should
capitalize on, instead of throwing all the integrity over board for a
forced "more profitable" (yeah right) target audience.
With the current
direction the Mass Effect franchise will not end like a movie you
watched as a kid and respect more and more as you grow older, a true
classic. Instead it will be great and I really mean great for the
moment, but at the end of the day it will just be a game, and not as
mature and lasting as it could be.
Skyrim sold and still sells great without any over the top sexualization and totally unpractical armor designs. You don't have to go down the Michael Bay road BioWare. Unless ofcourse, this is what you wanted to do all along.

Modifié par DaJe, 31 décembre 2011 - 09:23 .

[didymos1120]

DaJe wrote...

I see people making excuses like you don't die as fast as in many movies.

Then you completely misunderstood why those posts about the actual effects of vacuum were made.  They had nothing do to with justifying the breather masks.  They were simply about correcting errors of fact.  I can testify to that because I wrote many of them, and I don't think breathers are realistic either.

Modifié par didymos1120, 31 décembre 2011 - 09:29 .

[DarthSliver]

I see people dissing Star Trek but in a way I believe its Star Trek why Mass Effect was even created and allow me to explain this. Star Trek is the reason Star Wars started and Star Wars is the exact reason why Star Trek made it as far as it did from what I read. Now to the point I remember Bioware saying in a interview that it was Bioware making Knights of the Old Republic that inspired them to make the Mass Effect series in the first place. The reason to that was so they could have their own awesome scifi universe to build great stories on like Star Wars has spun alot of great Novels that is known as the EU. So now to the actually point, Star Trek is basically the father of Mass Effect for it and Star Wars allowed the Bioware crew to bring us the awesomeness that is known as Mass Effect.

Now for you who dont like the New Star Trek movie it was more into an alternative Timeline but the new designs to everything was greatly done. I thought the movie was great I wasnt bothered by Red Matter because Star Trek is based in the future.

[didymos1120]

DarthSliver wrote...

Star Trek is the reason Star Wars started...

Um, no.  While Lucas obviously knew of Star Trek, Star Wars draws its inspiration from the old SF serials like Buck Rogers, Flash Gordon, etc.

[DarthSliver]

didymos1120 wrote...

DarthSliver wrote...

Star Trek is the reason Star Wars started...

Um, no.  While Lucas obviously knew of Star Trek, Star Wars draws its inspiration from the old SF serials like Buck Rogers, Flash Gordon, etc.

Well I probably dont got all the facts straight was reading from the Star Trek Wiki at the time lol. Star Wars did keep Star Trek from dying because Star Trek was dying around the time Star Wars was released. And I know I heard in interview that it was Knights of the Old Republic that inspired Bioware to wanna make Mass Effect. 

But the Breather Mask is something that can be strugged off, yes it did bother me but my favorite characters always used the proper wear or didnt need it because they were machine. Only character I like that uses the mask is Liara and you only use her in the DLC LOTSB

[Grey34]

i see this thread has digressed a bit into what's worse "Me2 or star trek" kind of thing

[nitefyre410]

Grey34 wrote...

i see this thread has digressed a bit into what's worse "Me2 or star trek" kind of thing

Thats because it correct comparison but  has been completely twisted into something else.  Hell almost blame myself earlier  I was star wars and star trek  as long standing scifi franchise that are taken seriously. Yet they still have of the most  WTF science you would  see but still they are considered to of the most influence  scifi  that have change not a gernation but gerenations.   It can be said that with out  those two franchise  Mass Effect would not exist  or maybe not be a popular as it is.  

All in an attempt to show that  a work does not to be hyper realistic for people to be immersed in  it or take it serious.

it was worth a shot

Modifié par nitefyre410, 31 décembre 2011 - 11:54 .

[mybudgee]

Who cares about star trek?? Isn't it dead? I heard there were officially no more cheesy TV shows or awful movies in the works

[Phaedon]

[quote]Lotion Soronnar wrote...
Since when does huskification turn the entire body into metal? [/quote]
Who said, entire? Most of it? Lol, idk



The funniest part is that iron, copper and zinc only exist in the body as micro elements.


[quote]Cybernetic implants/additons/nanobots compromise a relatively small poart fohte body.[/quote]
lol






[quote]And I really don't know where the metal comes from, cna'trecall reading about that.[/quote]
You know, the Codex entry takes ALL of the cake. It flat out admits that it takes micrometals that are used as nutritients in the human body.

[quote]The devices convert the muscle, organs and water content of a corpse into cybernetic parts – possibly recovering a miniscule amount of nutrients – then reanimate the body with an electrical charge, turning it into a simple-minded Husk that attacks anyone who gets close enough. Releasing the new Husk also retracts the spike back into the tripod, ready for re-use.[/quote]
No really, it's amazing.


[quote]And waiting 5 hours for you gun to cool off is a even worse nightmare. And before you say it only takes a second for a guin to cool off - gameplay.[/quote]
I agree that it takes 5 hours for you gun to cool off. Hence why I said that the ME1 system is a tactical nightmare.
I said thermal SINKS, not clips.

No, really, dynamic CQC with a gun that jams after the first 10 seconds. Extraordinary.


[quote]Given that no explanation is given on how indoctrinationworks, how can you claim it's BS?[/quote]
Because I am a space magician who reads the codex, that's why:
[quote]Reaper "indoctrination" is an insidious means of corrupting organic minds, "reprogramming" the brain through physical and psychological conditioning using electromagnetic fields, infrasonic and ultrasonic noise, and other subliminal methods. The Reaper's resulting control over the limbic system leaves the victim highly susceptible to its suggestions.[/quote]
As if EM fields, infrasonic and ultrasonic noise wasn't enough, they go ahead and mention subliminal messages. Twillight Zone anyone?


[quote]As I said - acceptable breaks from reality. They needed unobtanium for their universe. True, they could have picked a better one, but either way they'd have one.[/quote]
Extremely unacceptable for a hardcore sci-fi universe, very easily acceptable for a softcore sci-fi universe.



[quote]Unorganized army? Sheps team iswell funded. You dont' have to be amercenaryor professional soldier to have enough brains to wear armor.
Would you complain ifShepsteam charaged with jsut sticks, evne tough there are guns available? After all, they aren't professional soldiers and there are some armies in 3rd world countries where soldiers run around with machetes[/quote]
Where did you find all those funds? I know that I could hardly buy an armor part with those mentioned in-game. Hell, I had to search all over the galaxy to find a decent helmet for me. Would I complain if Shepard charged with sticks if guns were available?

Depends on the situation. But, I'll ask you again. I have seen a single helmet laying around the Normandy. It requires you to download DLC and is way too broken to be used. I haven't seen any soldier from a third world country run with a machete. Maybe there are those too. What I noticed is that they were given rifles, plenty of them. No protection, whatsoever, however.


[quote]What argument? You mean your lies?[/quote]
Yes, Lotion. I am trying to persuade and seduce you. Also indoctrinate you.

Using subliminal messages and electromagnetic fields.

Bend to me.

[quote]Also, regardingthe derelict reaper - Shep destroyed the Ezoocore. The ME field collapsed and the reapers was pulled into the dwarf. So what exactly was holding the air in when they jumped from ship to ship?[/quote]
I am sorry, what was actually, not holding the air?

You have an atmosphere around you. Not vacuum. Air doesn't start rushing off. In fact, since the dwarf has a higher pressure atmosphere, air is rushing IN. Even in vacuum, as it has already been established a dozen times, Shepard and co. would have felt a sudden discomfort. Not enough to cause serious swelling and definitely not death.

So, your argument only makes sense if they actually wanted and knew that the eezo core would get destroyed before entering the vessel.




[quote][quote]
[quote]Reading comprehension - you fail at it.[/quote]
Actually, playing the game. YOU fail at it. I remember paying a small fortune for equipping myself with small armor mods and armor parts. Never was a variety of armor parts given to Shepard. Never did Cerberus supply squadmates with outfits. Just look at Garrus.

Should Cerberus not have given Shepard the Basic N7 Armor either, I assure you that s/he would also be running around in Juventus and Real Madrid tracksuits, like a real paid killer.[/quote]

Missing the point and failing again. The game didn't make any other armor availalbe for squadmates is EXACTLY the problem.[/quote]
So, you'd like.
The Cerberus funding is hardly enough to buy single armor parts. Where did you see Cerberus wiring enough money for you to buy full armor?




[quote]a) magentism.[/quote]
Bravo. Just like you stay on Earth and don't fly away because of MAGNETISM.

Magnets? How do they work?

I hope that you realize that this post would only be acceptable in the 16th century. Request an immediate refund from your country's department of Education. Although you risk them suing you for defamation instead.

[quote] a different kind of field[/quote]
Well, what kind of field, was it, Lotion? A field of magic?

Did unicorns also fly in it?

There is only ONE kind of gravitational field.The one that makes you fall from high places.

[quote]c) If youre going out in space, [/quote]
Brown dwarf atmosphere=/=space

[quote]one really should count that it will be only for a few seconds and thus no sealedsuit is needed. You are boarding a ship. the enemy cna decompress the entire deck and launch you into space at any time.
What kind of collosal moron goes onto a hostile ship naked?[/quote]
Actually, opening the airlock would be a magnificent idea. Look at all those Collectors flying into space! Yay!

Also, hardsuits wouldn't help you. They don't exactly scream "Man in space! Man in space!" and hand around space life jackets.

[Phaedon]

Yes, guys. We have reached the point when someone said that "MAGNETISM WOULD HOLD YOU FROM FLYING AWAY" as an argument against breathing masks.

Terror_K wrote...
Please... Star Trek is far worse than Mass Effect.

Other than the lack of proper make-up, in no conceivable way is the show that inspired the Alcubierre drive less realistic than Omni-Gel Effect. I have only seen Trekkies make legitimate attempts of explaining their show with modern physics, and somehow succeeding. What are the Mass Effect fans doing again?

Oh, right. Claiming that oxygen masks are unrealistic.

At least until Mass Effect 2 came along.

Herpy derpy,
Double jerky.

ME2 is Michael Bay,
Where the hell is my GARDIAN Array.

Like lightsabers omni-blades look to me,
I don't give a f*ck about proper alien anatomy.

Omni-gel, and subliminal messages are ME1's sport,
Omega is not a realistic Terminus port.

In thermal sinks all my heat I dump,
and then thermal clips still look kinda dumb.

Mass changes all around,
Giant tweezers launch me to the galaxy all day round.

Elements now have no protons,
Einstein is peeing bloody photons.

Geth Barriers holograms are,
no holo projector have I seen so far.

Maybe my hate for ME2 is unreasonable,
but f*ck it, after two years it's getting recognizable.

Firstly, that's really classy, Phaedon. But what do I expect from somebody who seems to believe BioWare can do no wrong.

Oh, it's passive aggressive comment time.

You have bullied moderators into breaking forum rules, that's got to be classier than an englishman with a monocle.

Secondly, whether something is a "non-issue" is a matter of opinion. Just because they aren't issues for you, doesn't mean they aren't for others. If we're going to throw the "how dare you have the nerve" comment around, I counter with saying "how dare you try and trivialise other people's concerns just because they aren't your own!" Different people like different things about the game, and not everybody just blindly follows BioWare to hell and back and agrees with their every move just because their name is on the package of the game box.

Different people also attempt to not answer about how breathing masks break any lore or actual science, but rather dramatically moan about their issues being trivialised.

Seeing as it's pragmatically speaking, not an actual issue, as it breaks no lore whatsoever, the problem lies 100% on a specific group of people. At least, if they got their science facts wrong, I can be sympathetic. We just got redefinitions of the Pascal measurement unit and magnetism, I can't be picky.

The fact that I've been, as you so eloquently put it, "constantly whining" for about 2 years just shows how much BioWare has changed lately considering  for the 10 years or so before that I didn't whine at all. Pretty much all my serious issues with them and their decisions have come in the last 2-3 years. So if I've been happy and adoring them for more than 10 years and then in the last 2-3 I'm angry, why does that mean the problem is my fault?

It most definitely is, and it certainly is the the root of the problem.
When you complain about a company which has jumped from FPS to heavy ADnD RPG to TPS and then to streamlined RPG (I am looking at you KOTOR), along with platform and facebook games, not being consistent to the image you have created about them, then yes, that's the root of the problem.

In the meantime, you can hope that the rest of the community thinks that those long rants are legitimately about breathing masks.

Finally, and more to the point, I'd really like you to explain exactly how breathing masks that aren't even attached to any tank or anything, being worn by people without tanks at that, can protect their wearers from the various dangers of space, particularly the effects of toxins, gravity, pressure, extreme heat and cold, radiation, etc. since you're apparently so well versed in what's scientifically accurate and what isn't.

They are as attached as the helmets in ME1 were.
In fact, even Samara has a tank built into her suit.
Toxins in ME2? Other than the chloride gas planet, what in hell are you talking about?
Gravity? Pressure?
Helmets save you from gravity?
Extreme heat and cold? I'd swear that Shepard wore a full hardsuit in Alchera. Where else have you seen enviroments with extreme heat and cold?

The worst part of all this, you know is, that helmets, especially in ME1, were notorious for not being a guarantee against toxins, heat and cold.

Modifié par Phaedon, 31 décembre 2011 - 12:55 .

[Terror_K]

Savber100 wrote...

Terror_K wrote...

Please... Star Trek is far worse than Mass Effect. At least until Mass Effect 2 came along.

Ok I have to ask...

Which is worse for you: 

Mass Effect 2 or the Star Trek reboot? :happy:

Star Trek reboot is worse, IMO. I'm actually a big Star Trek fan when it came to TOS, TNG and DS9. Voyager was... mostly watchable, but had some shocking episodes and an awful last few seasons. Enterprise I don't even consider a Star Trek at all.

Funnily enough though, I draw a few parallels between ME2 and J.J. Abrams Star Trek. Both are cases of changing things up and changing their style to a more bombastic, action-oriented and overall less mature sci-fi aimed more at a younger audience who like paper-thin plots, boobs, explosions, etc. more than it was made for the established audience. That's how it seems anyway. ME2 wasn't quite as guilty of this as Abrams' Star Trek was, if only because at least BioWare seemed to want to have their cake and eat it too rather than full-on abandon the old audience completely. Still... Mass Effect 2 had a few different feel and style to it than the original, which is largely at the heart of most of my issues with it. Most of the decisions with ME2 I disagreed with be it gameplay, style or presentation come down to the basic fact that it was retooled for a more mainstream market.

[Phaedon]

Terror_K wrote...
Star Trek reboot is worse, IMO. I'm actually a big Star Trek fan when it came to TOS, TNG and DS9. Voyager was... mostly watchable, but had some shocking episodes and an awful last few seasons. Enterprise I don't even consider a Star Trek at all.

Funnily enough though, I draw a few parallels between ME2 and J.J. Abrams Star Trek. Both are cases of changing things up and changing their style to a more bombastic, action-oriented and overall less mature sci-fi aimed more at a younger audience who like paper-thin plots, boobs, explosions, etc. more than it was made for the established audience.

It's not like TOS has a captain with a teenager's hormones, and goes as far as to have a sexual harrassment scene.

EDIT:
Boobs. Aren't those what the sexist caricatures of women in TOS have?

Modifié par Phaedon, 31 décembre 2011 - 01:07 .

[Someone With Mass]

It is a little funny how such energetic and insisting comments have been written simply because Liara is wearing a mask.

Though, I have to agree that it's a little weird that the majority of the squad isn't showing the least discomfort when they're on a planet where the surface temperature is close to the boiling point of water, like Canalus or on Aequitas, where the average surface temperature is -85 C.

[Terror_K]

Phaedon wrote...

I have only seen Trekkies make legitimate attempts of explaining their show with modern physics, and somehow succeeding. What are the Mass Effect fans doing again?

Oh, right. Claiming that oxygen masks are unrealistic.

If that's what you actually think we're saying, you clearly haven't even been paying attention. The issue isn't that "oxygen masks are unrealistic" at all. It's that they alone aren't a suitable subtitute for a proper, sealed helmet against the various dangers of space. It's not just the breathing masks either, but the outfits the squaddies wore beneath their necks as well. Exposing skin and not being properly sealed is a hazard when you're on a mission that could have you exploring all manners of environments. In ME1 the people making the game realised this, as everybody had a proper, sealed suit and full-faced helmets were automatically equipped whenever necessary.

Oh, it's passive aggressive comment time.

You have bullied moderators into breaking forum rules, that's got to be classier than an englishman with a monocle.

So you claim. I've seen no real proof of this beyond that. And if it's true that hardly speaks well of those making the game. It means they know they're making a product that's annoying a part of their fanbase and they're trying to avoid these factors coming to the fore. Perhaps if they were trying to remain more true to the original formula instead of pandering to the mainstream like they are they wouldn't need to do whatever it is you claimed they did.

Different people also attempt to not answer about how breathing masks break any lore or actual science, but rather dramatically moan about their issues being trivialised.

Seeing as it's pragmatically speaking, not an actual issue, as it breaks no lore whatsoever, the problem lies 100% on a specific group of people. At least, if they got their science facts wrong, I can be sympathetic. We just got redefinitions of the Pascal measurement unit and magnetism, I can't be picky.

But it does break the lore. The Migrant Fleet allowing Jack aboard like that alone does that. The fact that the game suddenly considers the squaddies being dressed like that as fine breaks the lore. Half the squaddies shouldn't have the medi-gel dispensers, oxygen or power supplies that only armour provide that they magically do (unless Miranda really does keep these things in her chest and rear-end, and Jack has them lined in her straps, etc.). They've said that kinetic barriers don't protect against most of the dangers of space.

They are as attached as the helmets in ME1 were.

Really? Where exactly. Aside from the fact that Shepard no longer even has a line attaching his/her helmet to the back of his/her armour any more, I don't see anything providing oxygen to Samara, Miranda or Jack's masks. They've got the equivalent of sucking a plastic cup to their faces and just breathing whatever is inside.

In fact, even Samara has a tank built into her suit.

And where are Jack's, Miranda's, Thane's, etc?

Toxins in ME2? Other than the chloride gas planet, what in hell are you talking about?

You're visiting strange worlds... who knows what there could be? Just because there's only one obviously bad example doesn't change the fact that Shepard could have taken his team to any number of strange, exotic and dangerous worlds. And there's still the whole Migrant Fleet issue, which is more of a reverse factor (i.e. they don't want anything from you getting into their ships).

Gravity? Pressure?
Helmets save you from gravity?
Extreme heat and cold? I'd swear that Shepard wore a full hardsuit in Alchera. Where else have you seen enviroments with extreme heat and cold?

These are all cases related to the entire ensemble, not just the helmets/masks. When you're exploring dangerous, alien worlds as an occupation it makes sense to have a completely sealed suit. The whole point of the original Mass Effect outfits was that they functioned as not just armour but a space suit, survival suit, environmental suit, radiation suit, etc. all in one. Putting a breathing mask on instead of a sealed helmet and wearing straps or outfits with cleavage holes as an alternative is like a fightfighter doing his job in a speedo.

The worst part of all this, you know is, that helmets, especially in ME1, were notorious for not being a guarantee against toxins, heat and cold.

Which just proves my point even more: had Jack, Miranda, Samara, etc. visited any of those planets notorious for toxin, heat and cold hazards in ME1, they'd have died on the spot. Or should have. Given how BioWare not treat the issue with ME2 and seemingly ME3 now too, they'd probably be fine.

Modifié par Terror_K, 31 décembre 2011 - 01:21 .

[Someone With Mass]

Though, why you'd bring Jack with you when you're facing geth instead of someone with Overload or Disruptor Ammo is a bit of a mystery, unless you really like her.

[Phaedon]

[quote]Terror_K wrote...
If that's what you actually think we're saying, you clearly haven't even been paying attention.[/quote]
Until you become the Voice of Logic, or the Voice of the People, I would feel more comfortable, if you didn't refer to yourself in plural. If you are referring to anything but breathing masks, then you are knowingly derailing the thread (again). But I am happy to see that you are not saying that breathing masks are unrealistic.

[quote]The issue isn't that "oxygen masks are unrealistic" at all. It's that they alone aren't a suitable subtitute for a proper, sealed helmet against the various dangers of space.[/quote]
[quote]
various dangers of space. [/quote]
[quote]space. [/quote]
Space is an impressive buzzword, but keep your melodramatic expressions elsewhere. In ME2, only Shepard comes in contact with space. In both of the occasions that he does so, he or she are wearing full helmets.

And the fact that an oxygen mask is not a suitable replacement for a helmet is quite astonishing. I agree that if you should find any helmets lying around the Normandy, you should have your crew wear them ASAP. It has been established for ages that Cerberus doesn't outfit you.

[quote]It's not just the breathing masks either, but the outfits the squaddies wore beneath their necks as well.[/quote]
Excuse me.
Is the title of this thread "Breathing masks", or "Terror_K establishes how Mass Effect 2 is a Michael Bay movie because of lack of plastic armor"?

[quote]Exposing skin and not being properly sealed is a hazard when you're on a mission that could have you exploring all manners of environments. In ME1 the people making the game realised this, as everybody had a proper, sealed suit and full-faced helmets were automatically equipped whenever necessary.[/quote]
As opposed to ME2, where you often came in contact with enviromental hazards? I don't remember any notable. In fact, ME1 establishes pretty dramatically about how its variety of armors are in fact, in no way suitable in planets with enviromental hazards. You seem quick to forget that.

[quote]So you claim. I've seen no real proof of this beyond that.And if it's true that hardly speaks well of those making the game. [/quote]
Where in my post did I mention anything about a developer? Phantasising again?

[quote]It means they know they're making a product that's annoying a part of their fanbase and they're trying to avoid these factors coming to the fore.[/quote]
Actually, I specifically said that they broke forum rules, in order to do the exact opposite. They also happenned to refuse (eventually) to enfore forum rules, this time by punishing a specific group of posters guilty of derailment and personal attacks. I am pretty sure that someone who would rather some people shut up, would do so, not lick their colons and encourage them to go on.


[quote]Perhaps if they were trying to remain more true to the original formula instead of pandering to the mainstream like they are they wouldn't need to do whatever it is you claimed they did.[/quote]
I feel for you Terror.
I also hate the mainstream crowd.
They are inferior to us, considerably dumber, less mature and shouldn't have games out there that they like.
I too, feel extremelly proud for being able to play a very specific kind of game. You see, playing that kind of video game, makes us special! We are so smart!

I too, don't care at all, that we are in a middle of yet another recession, and I'd rather that people made games as a hobby, not as part of a legitimate business while trying to make money.



[quote]But it does break the lore. The Migrant Fleet allowing Jack aboard like that alone does that.[/quote]
Actually, you either didn't care enough about the lore to pay attention, or you don't want to admit that the lore is proving you wrong. Tali specifically requests for a team to make sure that Shepard and co. don't bring over any contaminants. So, unless Jack was to poo or pee, I fail to see how she would produce new germs.

So, tell us, Terror, did Jack poo or pee?

[quote]The fact that the game suddenly considers the squaddies being dressed like that as fine breaks the lore.[/quote]
The game is code thrown together. It doesn't consider anything. You'll have to be a bit more specific.

[quote]Half the squaddies shouldn't have the medi-gel dispensers, oxygen or power supplies that only armour provide that they magically do[/quote]
Except that the medi-gel dispensing system only requires a signal receptor and some tubes. There is no real difference if you are wearing an armor or not. Unless you are implying that your squadmates in ME1 were nude inside of the armor, then the tubes and receptor would have to interact with clothing just like in ME2.

[quote](unless Miranda really does keep these things in her chest and rear-end, and Jack has them lined in her straps, etc.).[/quote]
Sure, why not?

[quote]They've said that kinetic barriers don't protect against most of the dangers of space.[/quote]
Well, that's incredible. The fact that you still don't want to realize what space means, I mean.

[quote]Really? Where exactly. Aside from the fact that Shepard no longer even has a line attaching his/her helmet to the back of his/her armour any more, I don't see anything providing oxygen to Samara, Miranda or Jack's masks. They've got the equivalent of sucking a plastic cup to their faces and just breathing whatever is inside.[/quote]
Let me put it this way. In ME1, how is Tali supplied with new and fresh air?

[quote]And where are Jack's, Miranda's, Thane's, etc?[/quote]
Where's the holo projector of the geth barriers in ME1?

[quote]You're visiting strange worlds... who knows what there could be? Just because there's only one obviously bad example doesn't change the fact that Shepard could have taken his team to any number of strange, exotic and dangerous worlds.[/quote]
I don't know what obscure Star Trek game you are playing instead of ME, but you are:
-Not visiting any uncharted worlds,
-Worlds which astronomers haven't observed before,
-Going where no man has went before,
-In a ship with a pretty capable atmospheric detection system. 

The only "strange new world" that I can remember visiting in ME2, is the WC over at Shepard's cabin.

[quote]And there's still the whole Migrant Fleet issue, which is more of a reverse factor (i.e. they don't want anything from you getting into their ships).[/quote]
What part of you is getting into their ships?

[quote]These are all cases related to the entire ensemble, not just the helmets/masks.[/quote]
Well, we have yet to find a problem with masks, have we?

[quote]When you're exploring dangerous, alien worlds[/quote]
Such as? Which world were you unprepared for?

[quote]as an occupation it makes sense to have a completely sealed suit. The whole point of the original Mass Effect outfits was that they functioned as not just armour but a space suit, survival suit, environmental suit, radiation suit, etc. all in one. [/quote]
Radiation? In ME1?
Also, ME1 hardsuits were terrible for survival suits, what the hell are you talking about?

[quote]
Putting a breathing mask on instead of a sealed helmet and wearing straps or outfits with cleavage holes as an alternative is like a fightfighter doing his job in a speedo. [/quote]
Modern firefighters are only wearing protective clothing because they know that there is an enviromental hazard.
Firefighters do NOT, and please get this idea out of your head, wear any extra apparel just in case. Frequently, the units with the extra apparel are specialized ones.

[quote]Which just proves my point even more: had Jack, Miranda, Samara, etc. visited any of those planets notorious for toxin, heat and cold hazards in ME1, they'd have died on the spot. Or should have. Given how BioWare not treat the issue with ME2 and seemingly ME3 now too, they'd probably be fine.[/quote]
Well, it's a good thing that they didn't, actually, visit any worlds with serious enviromental hazards, non?

Modifié par Phaedon, 31 décembre 2011 - 02:59 .