905 réponses à ce sujet

[ODST 5723]

Ryzaki wrote...

ODST 5723 wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

Because the devs pretty much admit it via Priestly's post.

That's funny, because I take just about everything Priestly says with a grain of salt because:

1) He's said things that turn out to not be accurate later.
2) He's Evil Chris

This isn't a plotline. He has little reason to lie about this.

I didn't say he lied.  He's said things at various points that ended up changing later.  That doesn't mean that he lied.

Addtionally, I'd suggest you read his subsequent comments on the matter. 

Modifié par ODST 5723, 01 janvier 2012 - 07:09 .

[Ryzaki]

ODST 5723 wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

ODST 5723 wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

Because the devs pretty much admit it via Priestly's post.

That's funny, because I take just about everything Priestly says with a grain of salt because:

1) He's said things that turn out to not be accurate later.
2) He's Evil Chris

This isn't a plotline. He has little reason to lie about this.

I didn't say he lied.  He's said things at various points that ended up changing later.  That doesn't mean that he lied.

Addtionally, I'd suggest you read his subsequent comments on the matter. 

I did read them. I'm seeing nothing about them getting helmets and everything about the breather masks being preferred because they can show off the facial expressions (why this goes out the window when it comes to Shep is my main issue). I really don't give a damn about the helmets. I just don't want my Shep to be forced to wear one if others aren't.

Modifié par Ryzaki, 01 janvier 2012 - 07:11 .

[ODST 5723]

Chris Priestly said.
...There are reasons to have breathing masks in game. And I don't mean "the team was too lazy to make helmets" or whatever, but some fine story based reasons (like one area where "someone" has vented the atmosphere out of a room you are passing through)...

It's very nice that you focused on what you're unhappy with and not on other items. Again, take it with a grain of salt, but there's more that was said than what you're paraphrasing.  That doesn't say that there's no helmets either.

But if that's what you want to believe, go ahead.

If my Shepard didn't have a helmet on and then all of a sudden it comes out of the same Hammerspace pocket that my ME1 inventory fit in, that can break immersion, too.

Modifié par ODST 5723, 01 janvier 2012 - 07:17 .

[crimzontearz]

people do realize that iconic looks and functionality are not mutually exclusive right?

[ODST 5723]

crimzontearz wrote...

people do realize that iconic looks and functionality are not mutually exclusive right?

Correct.  But if they aren't 100% in sync, it's not the end of the world.

[Ryzaki]

ODST 5723 wrote...

Chris Priestly said.
...There are reasons to have breathing masks in game. And I don't mean "the team was too lazy to make helmets" or whatever, but some fine story based reasons (like one area where "someone" has vented the atmosphere out of a room you are passing through)...

It's very nice that you focused on what you're unhappy with and not on other items. Again, take it with a grain of salt, but there's more that was said than what you're paraphrasing.  That doesn't say that there's no helmets either.

But if that's what you want to believe, go ahead.

Alright then. I would hope during those scenes that Shep puts on (or has the option) for a breather instead of slamming that bulky helmet that covers pretty much all of his face on.

[ODST 5723]

Ryzaki wrote...

ODST 5723 wrote...

Chris Priestly said.
...There are reasons to have breathing masks in game. And I don't mean "the team was too lazy to make helmets" or whatever, but some fine story based reasons (like one area where "someone" has vented the atmosphere out of a room you are passing through)...

It's very nice that you focused on what you're unhappy with and not on other items. Again, take it with a grain of salt, but there's more that was said than what you're paraphrasing.  That doesn't say that there's no helmets either.

But if that's what you want to believe, go ahead.

Alright then. I would hope during those scenes that Shep puts on (or has the option) for a breather instead of slamming that bulky helmet that covers pretty much all of his face on.

and if he doesn't... it's ok.  Hammerspace pockets go back to the science of ME1

[Ryzaki]

ODST 5723 wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

ODST 5723 wrote...

Chris Priestly said.
...There are reasons to have breathing masks in game. And I don't mean "the team was too lazy to make helmets" or whatever, but some fine story based reasons (like one area where "someone" has vented the atmosphere out of a room you are passing through)...

It's very nice that you focused on what you're unhappy with and not on other items. Again, take it with a grain of salt, but there's more that was said than what you're paraphrasing.  That doesn't say that there's no helmets either.

But if that's what you want to believe, go ahead.

Alright then. I would hope during those scenes that Shep puts on (or has the option) for a breather instead of slamming that bulky helmet that covers pretty much all of his face on.

and if he doesn't... it's ok.  Hammerspace pockets go back to the science of ME1

No to me it's not okay. Those nice facial expressions I want to see on my Shep too. I want consistency. I don't see why my Shep would take out a large helmet (because it's not like the helmets are retractable) and place it over his head if all he would need to do in a rush is take out a breather and tie it back.

Modifié par Ryzaki, 01 janvier 2012 - 07:20 .

[ODST 5723]

You want your definition of consistency

[Qwurty2.0]

I voted that it should depend on the situation and/or the player's preference.

[Iakus]

Ryzaki wrote...

Alright then. I would hope during those scenes that Shep puts on (or has the option) for a breather instead of slamming that bulky helmet that covers pretty much all of his face on.

And I hope that in other scenes that may involve walking across such areas as the surface of the moon, Mars, or Noveria or meeting with the admiralty board of the quarian Flotilla, Liara and anyone else accompanying Shepard has to wear a full, sealed helmet.

[Ryzaki]

ODST 5723 wrote...

You want your definition of consistency

Yes actually I do.

If my Shep pulls a helmet out of his rear because the air was vented from a room I want everyone else to do the same.

I'm selfish like that.

And if the devs don't want that for a multitude of reasons (including you know the helmet blocking facial expressions) i'd like it if they gave me the choice between said helmet and a breather mask so I can see my Shep's facial expressions too. They put time in effort into designing their characters' faces just like I did.

Modifié par Ryzaki, 01 janvier 2012 - 07:24 .

[ODST 5723]

And if you don't get a choice?

[Ryzaki]

ODST 5723 wrote...

And if you don't get a choice?

I'm gonna b**** and insist that since Shep's forced to wear bulky face covering helmet so should everyone else.


And yes I'm selfish. Don't care. Having my Shep's face covered almost completely when his companions just put on breathers was agitating.

Modifié par Ryzaki, 01 janvier 2012 - 07:29 .

[ODST 5723]

I'm ok with that as long as you're honest about it

[crimzontearz]

ODST 5723 wrote...

crimzontearz wrote...
people do realize that iconic looks and functionality are not mutually exclusive right?

Correct.  But if they aren't 100% in sync, it's not the end of the world.

so...if that is correct then you agree that it was a choice made by the devs....which is either insulting or indicating laziness on their part. why should people not criticize them in the hope that this mistake is not repeated in the next game? I mean given the fact it is happening again I'd say people have not complained enough

[Praetor Knight]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Missing the point.
The army, police, firemen - they don't use specific equipment because of a whim, or because they are making a fashion statement - they so it because the equipment has evolved to futher their job.
The equipment exists as the product of the need and requirements of the job. And that's why it's also used.

Well, I dunno, that's not what I've learned. Standard issue is not always the best for the needs and requirements of the job at hand. Only what fits the rules and codes and is affordable becomes standard issue, because I assume you're not only speaking of the uniforms if I follow you correctly. And I was told of several encounters that baffle and boggle, that I might as well share.

If you've ever spoken with someone who's been in combat, you'd likely hear how many rounds you'd need to fire to bring someone down with a standard issue M-9, so it's ineffective at best with it's 9mm rounds. And Combat is nothing like what we see in video games. So, I've been told that soldiers tend to order more powerful handguns, even with a standard issue sidearm. And it doesn't matter if they have to leave those powerful handguns behind when they're done and return home.

Another situation that I found interesting was a situation with a police officer responding to a 911 call. I know I wouldn't want to be a police officer who is trying to stop a man who was just seen committing a violent crime. Where you're forced to fire your weapon to stop the guy, but have your rounds bounce off the guy's leather jacket! Fortunately (or maybe even by design ) the welts stopped the guy from advancing on the police officer.



And I just want to say again that I'd love to have clear visors that can show the face of characters (even if breather masks stay within the design) and/or helmets that can open up during dialogue so that we could see their faces.

[ODST 5723]

crimzontearz wrote...

ODST 5723 wrote...

crimzontearz wrote...
people do realize that iconic looks and functionality are not mutually exclusive right?

Correct.  But if they aren't 100% in sync, it's not the end of the world.

so...if that is correct then you agree that it was a choice made by the devs....which is either insulting or indicating laziness on their part. why should people not criticize them in the hope that this mistake is not repeated in the next game? I mean given the fact it is happening again I'd say people have not complained enough

No.  I don't agree with that at all.

[crimzontearz]

ODST 5723 wrote...

crimzontearz wrote...

ODST 5723 wrote...

crimzontearz wrote...
people do realize that iconic looks and functionality are not mutually exclusive right?

Correct.  But if they aren't 100% in sync, it's not the end of the world.

so...if that is correct then you agree that it was a choice made by the devs....which is either insulting or indicating laziness on their part. why should people not criticize them in the hope that this mistake is not repeated in the next game? I mean given the fact it is happening again I'd say people have not complained enough

No.  I don't agree with that at all.

OK then explain how it is not

[In Exile]

Sgt Stryker wrote...
I'm still not sure where people get the idea that selecting a different appearance from an inventory screen has to equal Shepard explicitly telling someone else what to wear.

Because that's how Bioware treats it. Google DA:O and the scene where Morrigain gives the Warden her ring. She explicitly says there's nothing wrong with that, because the Warden gives her and everyone else clothes to wear the entire time.

This is how the system is taken to work by its creators.

Moreover, even if you wanted to throw out some "we control the whole party justification", that can't work in ME, because we don't control the whole party. We only ever control Shepard.

When you're in the ME2 galaxy map, do you think that Shepard is the one flying the Normandy? If so, why is Joker on board?

Obviously not. Just like with wearing clothes, I think Shepard tells Joker where to fly. How is this all inconsistent? 

Better example: when you're driving the MAKO, I highly doubt that Shepard is simultaneously driving the vehicle, operating the turret, and navigating.

He's presumably telling people what to do. Like what clothes to wear.

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Never been in the army or police I see?

Let me know when a Lt. Cmdr. decides which armour his troops wear and which guns they can use, and more importantly purchases guns and body armour on the black market to give to them.

[In Exile]

Andorfiend wrote...

Why are you thinking Rachni sensitivity to Biotics is related to their telepathy? The Thorian was telepathic and showed no evidence of biotic abilities. 

I'm not thinking that at all. It's what the game said. Rewatch the scene on Noveria.

But let's suppose for a second that this isn't true. That makes the statement more lore breaking and stupid. If biotics work as they should, then what Benezia is saying is that "the rachni are sensitive to changes in gravity" which is true of everything alive in gravity, and does about zero work explaining what she says.

I'm also going to ignore the whole "it's biologically possible to have telepathy" because that's a **** you to sciene that makes breathing masks seem like nothing.

It's possible I suppose. The Asari come the closest to having telepathy of the Council races, and they are all biotics, so that's a possible link. No, wait, the Rachni are all telepathic and only the males are biotics, so that blows that theory.

Once again, Benezia says this. It's not a theory.

Sure the Quarians havn't been spaceborn long enough to evolve away from strong immune systems on a genetic level. But what the hell do we actually know about Quarian physiology? They have fundamentally different base chemistry than we do. *shrug* Maybe the changes were epigenetic. They've had plenty of time for that.

We know how evolution works. If they have "immune systems" at all, they can't work they way the game describes. It doesn't matter how weak or strong their immune system is. ME2 is a disaster here, because they actually make the quarians have an overactive and underactive immune system simulatenously. But ME1 tells evolutionary biology to go **** itself.

We know the quarians had functional immune systems. We also know they've been in space for 200 years. They *very obviously* did not scrub and sterilize those ships as refugees.  Moreover, they were outside their suits, and they had an influx of a young population bringing with them foreign bodies every two years or so (let's say that's how long it takes a quarian to go on his pilgmage). So they very likely had a stable population of foreign bodies.

This is assuming that foreign bodies from non-Quarian worlds can infect quarians, which we have to assume becuase otherwise their existence of immune systems is irrrelevant (don't need them if no foreign bodies can infect them).

There's no sensible way an immune system collapses to that scale. There just isn't.

Saying maybe the changes were "epigenetic" is like saying "making gravity causes telepathy!" . It's a nonsense statement using scientific terms.

But in ME 2 we're told how humans have the most variable baseline genetics of all the known sapient races. And that's just stupid. We've got highly variable phenotypes, but genetically we're all cousins, and pretty close cousins at that.

So? Every sapient species beside us could be so inbred so as to be as be practically brothers (read as cheetahs). If they said we re the most genetically variable species on Earth that would be something, but comparing us to fantasy aliens isn't actually problematic at all.

So yes, there are plenty of biology screw-ups, but frankly I don't expect a 4th grader to realize when someone fails to follow Mendelevian inheritance. I do expect a 4th grader to know you need more than a dust mask in space. And I would prefer my S-F games to not insult the scientific understanding of your average 4th grader.

So you expect a 4th grader to understand how a vacuum operates, how oxygen deprivation affects the lungs, but not how a Punnett square works? 

Modifié par In Exile, 01 janvier 2012 - 07:52 .

[Iakus]

In Exile wrote...

So you expect a 4th grader to understand how a vacuum operates, how oxygen deprivation affects the lungs, but not how a Punnett square works? 

A 4th grader would probably know being exposed to vacuum=bad even if they don't know how exactly.  reading a little Heinlein or Asimov could tell you that much.

edit:  or even playing Mass Effect 1 

Modifié par iakus, 01 janvier 2012 - 08:03 .

[Sgt Stryker]

In Exile wrote...

Sgt Stryker wrote...
I'm still not sure where people get the idea that selecting a different appearance from an inventory screen has to equal Shepard explicitly telling someone else what to wear.

Because that's how Bioware treats it. Google DA:O and the scene where Morrigain gives the Warden her ring. She explicitly says there's nothing wrong with that, because the Warden gives her and everyone else clothes to wear the entire time.

This is how the system is taken to work by its creators.

Bad example. Different development teams work on Dragon Age and Mass Effect.

Moreover, even if you wanted to throw out some "we control the whole party justification", that can't work in ME, because we don't control the whole party. We only ever control Shepard.

Except that one time we control Joker. 

Better example: when you're driving the MAKO, I highly doubt that Shepard is simultaneously driving the vehicle, operating the turret, and navigating.

He's presumably telling people what to do. Like what clothes to wear.

OK then I change my stance. To some extent, Shepard does have influence over what his crew wears in the field. For example, he can tell people to "suit up" when they're about to go for a spacewalk, and his crew complies by putting on their helmets. They do so because a) he's the commanding officer and if they don't, they will die from vacuum exposure.

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Never been in the army or police I see?

Let me know when a Lt. Cmdr. decides which armour his troops wear and which guns they can use, and more importantly purchases guns and body armour on the black market to give to them.

Yeah, this is really the only part of ME1's inventory system that didn't make sense to me, and ME2's system was actually an improvement in this case. A classic RPG loot system doesn't make much sense in a futuristic world where you can just scan/purchase the schematics of a new piece of equipment and have your ship fabricate more copies.

[Xeranx]

ODST 5723 wrote...

Xeranx wrote...
It was glossed over because know one knows what's going on in that scene.  What was pointed out, however, was that Liara was wearing a mask and that they're back.  For all we know, Shepard and Vega could be wearing regular helmets in that scene.  Seeing as ME2 had Shepard in a helmet every time a squadmate was in a breath mask, one can reasonably believe Shepard would be wearing a helmet in that scene where Liara is wearing the breath mask again.  Vega, despite not knowing what he'll have, could also have a full helmet on in that scene since his face is completely uncovered much like Shepard's.

So you're comment makes no sense considering what we know of two out of the three characters in that shot.

For all we know Liara's wearing a mask for a specific purpose. While both Shepard and Vega could be wearing a helmet in that scene, they're not wearing them in that photo.  It could mean that she just stepped out of a sealed room.  It could be that she's going to be taking a different route than Shep and Vega.  Hell, we don't even know if either of them are in Shepard's party at the time.

Instead of discussing that, the anti-breather mask, "hardsuit or bust" crowd has worked themselves back into a tizzy just because they've seen the mask and its very existence has enraged them because of what enraged them in ME2.

In fact, most of the conversation hasn't even been about ME3 or that photo. It's been about ME1 and ME2.

So you want us to discuss why Shepard and Vega aren't wearing helmets in a shot where Liara is wearing a breathing mask?  For what purpose other than easily shooting down any complaints that come up?  As I said, Shepard will definitely have a helmet where things are not conducive to his/her health.  So any complaints in that vein would be annoying and would be deserved of being called such.

ME and ME2 are called up because they are the first in the series of three.  If you decide to disavow discussion of anything that came before which can be used to shore up an argument then you are unjustifiably and unfairly hamstringing any viewpoints opposing your own.  

LGTX wrote...

And that is exactly what I don't get. That you guys automatically assume that ME2 mechanics carry over to ME3 via copy/paste. Liara has breathing mask in one scene = she always has it regardless of context (something the devs could have rectified from ME2, but this thread denies as a possibility). And that Vega and Shep aren't wearing any because they'd have helmets.

For all we know, breathers are a separate class of facial cover entirely this time aroud. Why think in such cramped beliefs? ME2 is over. We never know what Bioware decided to touch up in terms of appearances and/or customization.

EDIT: ODST kinda beat me to it there.

Some didn't like the combat in ME2.  Bioware said they were keeping it for ME3.  They may do some more work, but it'll largely be the same as what we saw.  Looking at the videos of ME3 I'd say they kept to their word on that front.  There was also a shot of alternate looks for our squad that was intended for retailers (that got leaked?) which coincides with Bioware's "iconic look" of late.  So why is it wrong to believe that breathing masks are making a return in the same capacity that we've seen in ME2 despite how much people stated they disliked it before?

[Lotion Soronarr]

Il Divo wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Also, to whomever advocates the "uniqne apperance" idea ME2 and DA2 had - you're a moron.

When has ever a persons always worn the same cloths, always and forever, regardless of situation? If you know a weirdo like that in RL, I pitty you (and him/her)
Clothes are associated with a person depending on which are most OFTEN worn, not ALWAYS worn.

Great question. When has a person ever managed to survive being mauled by a dragon? Or survived a shotgun blast to the face? But these things happen in an RPG, because realism is not always desirable. Gameplay considerations. I'll gladly take iconic outfits for each individual character over armor that felt generic and lifeless.

increased tougness is a produce of a requirement. In a team game, you control several people and oyu cna't watch over them all at the same time. There are games where you can die in 1 hit, but you'll notice they are all solo games for a reason. you only have one character.

Singular outfits have no such excuse however. As for "lifeless" and "generic".. the misuse of those words makes linguists cry. I don't think you even know what they mean.
What's really wrong with "regular" clothing? Does everoyne desire to be a super special snoflake so much that they desperately MUST have somethnig super unique? Are your clotehs unique and individual?

And how does having such clothes prevent you form ALSO having a few items of clothing that are more unique?You're not making any sense. You are against variety but demand variety....