905 réponses à ce sujet

[Computer_God91]

ODST 5723 wrote...

Clipping w/ the hairstyles would likely be the biggest issue, IMO.

That's a load, all they'd need to do is make a bald head model for when the helmet it on.

[Phaedon]

Andorfiend wrote...
*facepalm* The hardsuits are combat armour AND spacesuits. Nothing can protect you flawlessly against every hazard.

Goodie. I didn't say that it wasn't a spacesuit. It however, is not, by any means an enviro-suit. A T-shirt can also protect you to some extent when you are walking around in the North Pole, but you'll collapse sooner or later. A hardsuit that actually only gives you a few seconds before collapsing is even worse, comparatively.

I have a full scuba rig and a 3mm wetsuit. It will allow me to survive, potentially for hours, in an enviroment that would kill me within a couple of minutes were I naked. It will not keep me alive in water much colder than 60 deg F for very long, cold water diving calls for much heavier wetsuits, or ideally a dry suit.

Yeah. The problem here is that hours=/=seconds.

Envirosuit= Suit that is designed to offer you significant protection for prolonged exposure to a specific element.

Using a ME1 hardsuit to deal with a dangerous enviroment is like handling plasma with a cooking glove.

My wetsuit will also cook me alive in perfectly comfortable shirt sleeves weather, if I'm not in the water.

That's also entirely irrelevant and I have to wonder why you felt the need to post it.

It will not stop a bullet.

I have yet to hear of a modern enviro-suit that acts as protection towards bullets.

A bullet proof vest will not help me dive.

Neither will a hardsuit of ME1.

A cat suit will not help me either to dive, or survive small arms fire.

A "catsuit" will protect you as much as any kind of military uniform made of fabric. ME1 suits were choke full of unprotected parts.

Trying to argue that a bulletproof vest is no better than a stylistically different from a catsuit in combat because it will not let you survive in space is a pretty stupid argument, don't you think? Why do you feel comfortable claiming a catsuit is no worse than a space suit in a vacuum because neither one will save you from a liquid nitrogen shower?

Nope, you are currently putting words in my mouth.
Upon finding full hardsuits for your squadmates, you should definitely outfit them properly. The problem is that you don't. 

Unorganized armies can't exactly expect armor to appear out of thin air, you know. That also doesn't mean that ME1 hardsuits offer any considerable protection for hazardous enviroments.

Your arguement amounts to claiming that it makes as much sense to drive a cell phone as a motorcycle since neither one of them makes waffles.

No, I am pretty sure that that's a sign of problems with reading comprehension from your side.

[didymos1120]

Computer_God91 wrote...


That's a load, all they'd need to do is make a bald head model for when the helmet it on.

Not even that.  The hair is essentially a digital wig. Using the flycam, you can often catch it floating separately from its owner. Just temporarily delete it.

[ODST 5723]

Computer_God91 wrote...

ODST 5723 wrote...

Clipping w/ the hairstyles would likely be the biggest issue, IMO.

That's a load, all they'd need to do is make a bald head model for when the helmet it on.

More the activation portion, depending on the available hair styles.  If it can be eliminated or mitigated, that eliminates the only reason I could see not to do it.

Modifié par ODST 5723, 02 janvier 2012 - 10:20 .

[Phaedon]

didymos1120 wrote...

Computer_God91 wrote...


That's a load, all they'd need to do is make a bald head model for when the helmet it on.

Not even that.  The hair is essentially a digital wig. Using the flycam, you can often catch it floating separately from its owner. Just temporarily delete it.

Oh, the fact they used breathing masks in ME2 and from what it seems, even partially in ME3, is a clear dev decision. It's got nothing to do with resources. It would probably be cheaper if they reused helmet models from ME1.

[Homey C-Dawg]

Wow 30 pages of breather masks.

It could be worse guys. They could have been breather masks with sunglasses.

[didymos1120]

Homey C-Dawg wrote...

Wow 30 pages of breather masks.

It could be worse guys. They could have been breather masks with sunglasses.

Jack in her AAP outfit. You're welcome.

Modifié par didymos1120, 02 janvier 2012 - 10:45 .

[Lotion Soronarr]

Phaedon wrote...
Upon finding full hardsuits for your squadmates, you should definitely outfit them properly. The problem is that you don't.

Which exactly the problem with ME2.
Good you finally realise it.

[Lotion Soronarr]

ODST 5723 wrote...

So what you're saying, with absolute certainty is that a collapsible helmet couldn't stop a single round and then tossing in a straw man for fun.

Stop a round? Probably not. Even if it could, a normal helemnet would be superior in both protection and comfort.

You're clearly the master.

Nice of you to recognize your superiors

As for magnetism, by all means, refer back several pages and it may come back to you.

How much is "several"?
I have no desire to dig trough all of your posts.

[Lotion Soronarr]

didymos1120 wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

A collapsable helmet will always be inferior to a solid on. Basic common sense. Can they handwave it? Not in any sensible way.

It's really not that difficult: armor is there to catch rounds slowed but not stopped by the barrier. It cannot stand up to full speed rounds, period. It's not designed to even try. So all a collapsible helmet has to do is be strong enough to stop the occassional, and in comparison, very slow stray round.  And you're going to insist that materials science hasn't progressed far enough in ME-land to make that a solvable engineering problem in conjunction with a collapsible design? Hell, you could even have a single-piece internal sheath of some ballistic, and moderately elastic, fabric that could "peel" back when the harder external plating of the helmet folds down.  Use some imagination.

Use some reason.
Armors work by deflect, re-directing or absorbing the impact energy. There's a reaosn full plate in the middel ages had a single-piece chestplate.

The basic requirement of a collapsable helmet means it will be THINNER (since it has to collapse), be worse at distributing kinetic energy( since it will have to collapse) and have more problem with everything else (from padding to electronics).

It's not a question of "it's impossible to make" - the problem is when you do make it, the effort required to make it and the efficiency/performace would be such that you have to wonder why you bothered in the first place.

[nitefyre410]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Phaedon wrote...
Upon finding full hardsuits for your squadmates, you should definitely outfit them properly. The problem is that you don't.

Which exactly the problem with ME2.
Good you finally realise it.

  


So then is your arguement more for  the return of the character customizable armor because  thats kind what it sounds like what your might be getting at - which is fine buy me.  As long as we don't characters like Thane and Kasumi  running around in full heavy battle armor   that does nothing for their strengths... which are stealth and suprise attack. 

Then again this whole  fiasco could be more of a fallout from Bioware shift to the more shooter style combat with breaking characters into more specifec combat classes and building the missions around  who the player builds the team using such.

[Lotion Soronarr]

nitefyre410 wrote...
So then is your arguement more for  the return of the character customizable armor because  thats kind what it sounds like what your might be getting at - which is fine buy me.  As long as we don't characters like Thane and Kasumi  running around in full heavy battle armor   that does nothing for their strengths... which are stealth and suprise attack. 

Too bad they never get to use those strengths, since they run and gun just like any old soldier, not actually using their stealthyness...which makes their non-use of armor even sillier.

Modifié par Lotion Soronnar, 02 janvier 2012 - 11:17 .

[AgitatedLemon]

Too bad they never get to use those strengths, since they run and gun just like any old soldier, not actually using their stealthyness.

Game mechanics. Otherwise we'd have Mordin applying first aid after every single firefight, and allies wouldn't be able to shrug off bullet wounds like they were just tickles.

[Homey C-Dawg]

didymos1120 wrote...

Homey C-Dawg wrote...

Wow 30 pages of breather masks.

It could be worse guys. They could have been breather masks with sunglasses.

Jack in her AAP outfit. You're welcome.

...
STREUTH! <falls dead>

[nitefyre410]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

nitefyre410 wrote...
So then is your arguement more for  the return of the character customizable armor because  thats kind what it sounds like what your might be getting at - which is fine buy me.  As long as we don't characters like Thane and Kasumi  running around in full heavy battle armor   that does nothing for their strengths... which are stealth and suprise attack. 

Too bad they never get to use those strengths, since they run and gun just like any old soldier, not actually using their stealthyness...which makes their non-use of armor even sillier.

 


"Ah yes  game breakin squad AI in a game built around Squad based tatics we have dismissed this myth"

[didymos1120]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Too bad they never get to use those strengths, since they run and gun just like any old soldier, not actually using their stealthyness...which makes their non-use of armor even sillier.

Well, you know, except for Kasumi's Shadow Strike.

[nitefyre410]

didymos1120 wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Too bad they never get to use those strengths, since they run and gun just like any old soldier, not actually using their stealthyness...which makes their non-use of armor even sillier.

Well, you know, except for Kasumi's Shadow Strike.

 


The problem is that when I put Kasumi in a spot where she can be safe from harm whilist I run around draw attention  of the Baddies  the squad AI haves her jump out and play tank thus ruining the tatical advantage of having her jump  and stab people in the back.  Come'on man

[Lotion Soronarr]

AgitatedLemon wrote...

Too bad they never get to use those strengths, since they run and gun just like any old soldier, not actually using their stealthyness.

Game mechanics. Otherwise we'd have Mordin applying first aid after every single firefight, and allies wouldn't be able to shrug off bullet wounds like they were just tickles.

The leve design, the situation - nothing in the game even indicates you need a theif  or that he does anything conencted to it's profession.

At least Morodin does plot-critical research, so there's a good reason for hireing him. Honestly, did you really need Thane, Tali or Kasumi?
All your team did was assaults. Pure fighting. So what's hte use of brninging them along insted of more soldiers?

You can say it's mechanics - but iall Biwoare design. At least in ME1 they had some reason to be there and were properly equipped.

Bad AI? Again, Bioware fail.

Modifié par Lotion Soronnar, 02 janvier 2012 - 12:51 .

[AgitatedLemon]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

AgitatedLemon wrote...

Too bad they never get to use those strengths, since they run and gun just like any old soldier, not actually using their stealthyness.

Game mechanics. Otherwise we'd have Mordin applying first aid after every single firefight, and allies wouldn't be able to shrug off bullet wounds like they were just tickles.

The leve design, the situation - nothing in the game even indicates you need a theif  or that he does anything conencted to it's profession.

At least Morodin does plot-critical research, so there's a good reason for hireing him. Honestly, did you really need Thane, Tali or Kasumi?
All your team did was assaults. Pure fighting. So what's hte use of brninging them along insted of more soldiers?

You can say it's mechanics - but iall Biwoare design. At least in ME1 they had some reason to be there and were properly equipped.

Bad AI? Again, Bioware fail.

The entire point of the mass rectuiment was to GET more manpower. How did you miss that?

And yes, Kasumi not cloaking on her own (Apart from SS) and Thane not being sneaky is just game mechanics. Same with Legion not being able ot hack into ATM's and forward you trillions of credits, and headshots not always inflicting instantly lethal damage, and regenerating health.

Saying "Durr it's just BioWare's fault" just to say it doesn't make you look any smarter.

[nitefyre410]

AgitatedLemon wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

AgitatedLemon wrote...

Too bad they never get to use those strengths, since they run and gun just like any old soldier, not actually using their stealthyness.

Game mechanics. Otherwise we'd have Mordin applying first aid after every single firefight, and allies wouldn't be able to shrug off bullet wounds like they were just tickles.

The leve design, the situation - nothing in the game even indicates you need a theif  or that he does anything conencted to it's profession.

At least Morodin does plot-critical research, so there's a good reason for hireing him. Honestly, did you really need Thane, Tali or Kasumi?
All your team did was assaults. Pure fighting. So what's hte use of brninging them along insted of more soldiers?

You can say it's mechanics - but iall Biwoare design. At least in ME1 they had some reason to be there and were properly equipped.

Bad AI? Again, Bioware fail.

The entire point of the mass rectuiment was to GET more manpower. How did you miss that?

And yes, Kasumi not cloaking on her own (Apart from SS) and Thane not being sneaky is just game mechanics. Same with Legion not being able ot hack into ATM's and forward you trillions of credits, and headshots not always inflicting instantly lethal damage, and regenerating health.

Saying "Durr it's just BioWare's fault" just to say it doesn't make you look any smarter.

 

So who's fualt would it be then because  we sure as  hell did not program the game's squad AI in combat and if I did I would kick myself(Hyperbole)  Even often hated FF XIII  got this right(yeah I went there)  Lightning set as a Ravager woud never  just  all of suddenly starting the be a Sentinel like Fang.   The Problem with ME 2 Squad  AI is that are no roles everyone just ends up running around like a chicken with there head off and its a gaint cluster ****.

[AgitatedLemon]

nitefyre410 wrote...

AgitatedLemon wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

AgitatedLemon wrote...

Too bad they never get to use those strengths, since they run and gun just like any old soldier, not actually using their stealthyness.

Game mechanics. Otherwise we'd have Mordin applying first aid after every single firefight, and allies wouldn't be able to shrug off bullet wounds like they were just tickles.

The leve design, the situation - nothing in the game even indicates you need a theif  or that he does anything conencted to it's profession.

At least Morodin does plot-critical research, so there's a good reason for hireing him. Honestly, did you really need Thane, Tali or Kasumi?
All your team did was assaults. Pure fighting. So what's hte use of brninging them along insted of more soldiers?

You can say it's mechanics - but iall Biwoare design. At least in ME1 they had some reason to be there and were properly equipped.

Bad AI? Again, Bioware fail.

The entire point of the mass rectuiment was to GET more manpower. How did you miss that?

And yes, Kasumi not cloaking on her own (Apart from SS) and Thane not being sneaky is just game mechanics. Same with Legion not being able ot hack into ATM's and forward you trillions of credits, and headshots not always inflicting instantly lethal damage, and regenerating health.

Saying "Durr it's just BioWare's fault" just to say it doesn't make you look any smarter.

 

So who's fualt would it be then because  we sure as  hell did not program the game's squad AI in combat and if I did I would kick myself(Hyperbole)  Even often hated FF XIII  got this right(yeah I went there)  Lightning set as a Ravager woud never  just  all of suddenly starting the be a Sentinel like Fang.   The Problem with ME 2 Squad  AI is that are no roles everyone just ends up running around like a chicken with there head off and its a gaint cluster ****.

FF13 isn't a third person shooter with cover mechanics.

The rest of your argument doesn't make any sense. We aren't saying that someone like Sentinel Shep is tossing out Drones like Tali or Legion, or Concussive shots like Garrus or Grunt.

[nitefyre410]

AgitatedLemon wrote...

*snip*

FF13 isn't a third person shooter with cover mechanics.

The rest of your argument doesn't make any sense. We aren't saying that someone like Sentinel Shep is tossing out Drones like Tali or Legion, or Concussive shots like Garrus or Grunt.

 

Of course not...I comparing  as two a RPGS that use  two different battle systems... one works, the other not so much.

  I can't how  many times  I have told Thane or Kasumi to post up  behind some cover with  a sniper rifle or  hide behind cover till  SS recharges only to turn around seeing them going  in guns blazings their not playing the role  assigned  them much  just Lighting  just jumping  out  and tanking  when she is not built in to be a tank  


 

[crimzontearz]

ODST 5723 wrote...

crimzontearz wrote...
oh how adorable...the good old "I'm pulling weak defenses for Bioware out of my *** but I am above you because you are whining/stubborn and thus it's useless to continue"
no

1: we already agreed that the artistic direction and the verosimilitude of the attire can be reconciled...moot point


2: failed in the preamble. ME was a good high 3 or low 4 on the mohs scale of sci fi hardness but ME2 is a good point lower, is they remained on the same level you might have been right. Also, we are Always just a vocal minority when it suits people in order to dismiss whatever argument is being presented...nice try tho


3: their point being wanting a unique ownable and recognizable look for the squadmates which, as you yourself said before is NOT unreconcilable with it actually being functional and coherent with the standards set by ME1 as provem by Miranda's alternate appearance DLC which brings us back to my original two points.

Are you going to defend DA2 too after this like the hardcore BDF did in the months leading to release? because half the crap you are using in your rethotics is almost word by word what was used back then if for different aspects of the game. Then the game came out and the tune changed....guess people needed a hard slap in the face to wake up.

visuals tell a great part of the story they set the mood and they allow for deeper immersion. Bioware had an artistic vision that was praised in ME1 and abandoned in ME2 in favor of the rule of cool. Extra Credits did a little episode on story telling and the visuals in a game, what was done in ME2 amounts to poor story telling when it comes to certain things like space catsuits. Yes you can supinely justify everything and cualk it up to thiabhing their game not ours, me? I'll keep voicing my opinion because it seems Bioware listens as proven by Miranda's armor, Ash's armor, the weapon packs Tali and Garrus the return of the RPG features and so on and so forth and the more people voice their opinion and their critiques the more things may change.

And all this says is that you're pushing your opinion and agenda convinced of your own viewpoint... and it differs from mine.  That something can be reconciled doesn't mean it has to be.  There can be other reasons.  Yet you want to pretend that nothing else exists because as long as you ignore it you don't have to reconcile those options with the viewpoint you've already covinced yourself of. 

While I'd like to see helmets, hardsuits and breather masks in proper contexts, they don't break the big picture storytelling for me and that's what's important to me.  The big picture.  Yet I can point to all the minutia in the world to drive home the point that you're presenting a crap argument that you are free to believe and free to speak.  But if you're going to go that route, then go back to ME1 and call a spade a spade.  There's enough inconsistency and rule of cool there too that means that ME2 can easily get a pass.  Especially in the context of middle-ground science laden Space Opera.

As for DAII, I found the banter and squad dynamics to be vastly superior to ME1 ad ME2 and if they can incoporate that into ME3, that's good IMO.

At the end of the day, whether or not your happy with ME doesn't mean anything to me.  But don't try to construct an invalid scenario with limited options that only support your position as if it's representative of my position.  First, it insults your own intelligence.  Second, it proves my point.

"agenda"? Seriously? The big picture for the customers (us) who do not want the series to go in the crapper like DA did is for ME to remain consistent to the standards set in ME1, if not perfect, and not to slide further down.

the small things which you call minutia are part of what separates a good game from a great one, they can only be ignored so much and the problem a lot of us have is not that ME1 was perfect and ME2 was not but that ME1 was faulty in some instances but held to higher standards and ME2 fell below in that department


oh and year nice way to redirect, I was totally talking about squad banter and dynamics for DA2.....not, but nice try.

the scanario is valid. At the end of the day this was not a practical decision dictated by resources or necessity as pointed out by others. So at the very core the issue remains that either they thought people wold not care OR they got lazy. As proven by Christina's words about RPG features apparently Bioware is listening to this kind of critiques.

[Il Divo]

Terror_K wrote...

Also, there's plenty of proof that RPGs can still be popular and sell well, not least of all the original Dragon Age, the Fallout titles and Skyrim, the latter of which has seen massive success, and it even has a worse inventory than ME1 did. 

I'm going to argue against this. Despite its flaws, Skyrim does not have a worse inventory than Mass Effect, for several reasons. 

The primary issue being that the game does not randomly force items I do not choose to pick up into the Dragonborn's Inventory. Another being that I can actually see the stats of all the items as soon as I decide to loot a body, meaning I do not have to wait until it's in my inventory to actually compare stats with my current equipped. Mass Effect does not do this, in addition to separating every weapon type into its own category (which makes inventory cycling a hassle), and far as I'm aware does not have a quick select for useful items I might want to equip at different points. Also add on top that Mass Effect's use of the ranked items means that it can get incredibly confusing in figuring out whether you already possess a certain upgrade or whether it's vendor trash.  

Modifié par Il Divo, 02 janvier 2012 - 03:11 .

[crimzontearz]

I dare say Deus Ex had the best idea when it came to inventory

now if only I could bring myself to play that game again but the lack of proper NG+ in a game with progression is a killer for me