905 réponses à ce sujet

[Iakus]

Abraham_uk wrote...

Well there is only so much you can say about the topic. Breathing masks areimportant, but so are space and environmental suits. Going into space half naked is a stupid idea.

Yes I said it, Going into space half naked is a stupid idea. Go try it for yourselves.

That probably sums up pages 1-5. As for the rest of the pages probably banter about why some feel ME 1 is better than ME 2 and why some feel ME 2 is better than ME 1. Am I correct.

Don't forget all the accusations of wanting a hard sf game just because we think breather masks and exposed skin in hostile environments is stupid

[Iakus]

Il Divo wrote...

He's already part cyborg, and we do have those codex entries regarding genetic engineering being used to alter human DNA in various ways. And Shepard was dead for a two year gap, which is the perfect time to shoe-horn in new technology and science. Bioware had everything they needed to make it work. All that's missing is the actual explanation.

Right.  The undead cyborg gets the full helmet.  

Modifié par iakus, 02 janvier 2012 - 06:37 .

[Il Divo]

iakus wrote...

Il Divo wrote...

He's already part cyborg, and we do have those codex entries regarding genetic engineering being used to alter human DNA in various ways. And Shepard was dead for a two year gap, which is the perfect time to shoe-horn in new technology and science. Bioware had everything they needed to make it work. All that's missing is the actual explanation.

Right.  The undead cyborg gets the full helmet.  

Haha, I didn't even think of that. Shepard should be a gentlemen and offer his helmet to Miranda. He probably has the Dermal Armor Augmentation anyway, so he'll stand to take more abuse from the environment.  

Modifié par Il Divo, 02 janvier 2012 - 06:39 .

[AlanC9]

didymos1120 wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...


From the story/plot/structure and universe building it is worse than ME1 is every way. This isn't even debatable.

Oh, it's debatable alright.  It's just not worth debating with people who like to assert that matters which have a large subjective component aren't even debatable.

Well, we could talk about structure in RPGs generally. From recent comments on the boards I'm starting to get the impression that the BG2/ME2/ DA2 structure is obsolete. Either you use the NWN/KotOR/ME1 structure, or just go all the way to a TES format. But that's really going off-topic for this thread.

As foir the actual topic... why are we talking so much about lore, which game has stupider errors and worse inconsistencies, and all of that stuff? Regardless of any of that, didn't the ME2 breathing masks simply fail on their own terms by looking stupid?

Although I'm not all that upset by this, myself. There are much stupider things left in the ME universe. Like Shepard buying equipment in shops with his own money. Every bit as stupid as breathing masks, except that I actually have to interact with this bit of stupidity rather than just ignoring a cutscene or two.

[Ryzaki]

iakus wrote...

Il Divo wrote...

He's already part cyborg, and we do have those codex entries regarding genetic engineering being used to alter human DNA in various ways. And Shepard was dead for a two year gap, which is the perfect time to shoe-horn in new technology and science. Bioware had everything they needed to make it work. All that's missing is the actual explanation.

Right.  The undead cyborg gets the full helmet.  

This. Shepard is the one who would probably last the longest (save Grunt who *also* wears a helmet!) in hostile enviornments.

Boggles the mind why they're the ones with full helms on.

[Zanallen]

Ryzaki wrote...

This. Shepard is the one who would probably last the longest (save Grunt who *also* wears a helmet!) in hostile enviornments.

Boggles the mind why they're the ones with full helms on.

Shep is very genre savvy. He knows he is a zombie and so wears a helmet to protect his brain. The rest of his squad are still human. If they die, he can just turn them into zombies too and then he'll provide them with helmets.

[crimzontearz]

ODST 5723 wrote...
Crimson, it sounds like you're arguing that ME1 and ME2 weren't both great games, when despite their flaws, they were. It sounds like you view ME2 as a step down on your primary criteria while I view it as a step up.

Knowing this, do you really think its necessary to continue to argue tastes and preferences? This is what I was talking about earlier when I said that both of us could argue this for days and still be utterly convinced of our positions.

no you are over simplifying my point of view.

Both ME1 and ME2 were great games in their own right. I did play both of them 20 plus times all NG+ runs. ME is my all time favorite series. And while ME2 did improve a few things like gunplay, conversations, cutscenes, engine solidity and so on it did drop the ball on other aspects the standards of which dropped like verosimilitude and attinence to the established lore. Those things to many are just as important if not more important than what was improved in ME2 and these individuals me included do not consider them acceotabke trade offs especially nice there was no need to do these tradeoffs to achieve the result intended by the devs

[Lotion Soronarr]

AgitatedLemon wrote...

And why exactly would you need non-soldiers on the mission you had?

You don't know what specialists are, do you?

Why does the army field engineers and medics and mechanics, when they could just use more grunts?

Stupid logic is stupid.

Except in such games you actually get to USE those medics and mechanics. Use their skills.
Medics heal. Mechanics build.

But not in ME. Not even story-wise. Not even in a cutscene (that's Stop-the-Reepaers mission-related, so no, recruitment doesn't count)

[nitefyre410]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

AgitatedLemon wrote...

And why exactly would you need non-soldiers on the mission you had?

You don't know what specialists are, do you?

Why does the army field engineers and medics and mechanics, when they could just use more grunts?

Stupid logic is stupid.

Except in such games you actually get to USE those medics and mechanics. Use their skills.
Medics heal. Mechanics build.

But not in ME. Not even story-wise. Not even in a cutscene (that's Stop-the-Reepaers mission-related, so no, recruitment doesn't count)

 

^ This 

thats an immersion breaker for me and it drives me nuts.

Modifié par nitefyre410, 02 janvier 2012 - 07:59 .

[Lotion Soronarr]

didymos1120 wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...


From the story/plot/structure and universe building it is worse than ME1 is every way. This isn't even debatable.

Oh, it's debatable alright.  It's just not worth debating with people who like to assert that matters which have a large subjective component aren't even debatable.

Everythnig is debatable by those who refuse to see the truth. There are people debating evolution to this day. Doesn't make it any less of a fact.

ME2 story/plot IS worse by any metric possible. It has more plot holes and more severe ones, more ass pulls, more hand-waves, more idiot balls.
You may like the story and characters, but doesn't change a thing. ME2 does some things right, but it also does soem things very wrong.

Modifié par Lotion Soronnar, 02 janvier 2012 - 08:00 .

[Kaiser Arian XVII]

*Putting on the mask, staring at nearest star at space ... UV burning the face*

[ODST 5723]

Given that I don't see these items as a step down we're back to my point. A difference in tastes and preferences.

You feel that ME was in the 4 range on the Mohs scale that fell to a 3, I don't think it ever moved from 3. Why? Tastes and preferences in how we rationalize the universe because you felt it was harder sci-fi than I did.

Modifié par ODST 5723, 02 janvier 2012 - 08:02 .

[didymos1120]

Well, since you're just repeating yourself, Lotion, you can simply re-read my last post on the matter. Lather. Rinse. Repeat as necessary. 

Modifié par didymos1120, 02 janvier 2012 - 08:02 .

[AlanC9]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...
ME2 story/plot IS worse by any metric possible. It has more plot holes and more severe ones, more ass pulls, more hand-waves, more idiot balls.
You may like the story and characters, but doesn't change a thing. ME2 does some things right, but it also does soem things very wrong.

Note that "severe" is a value judgement. And since ME2 has a more diverse plot structure than ME1, in raw numbers of glitches the same level of inattention to detail would produce a larger absolute number of issues in ME2.

But since you're talking like you've thought the point through, how about posting your detailed analysis? After all, the data will prove you're right, right? So just produce the data and you've got an easy win.

Modifié par AlanC9, 02 janvier 2012 - 08:06 .

[Lotion Soronarr]

ODST 5723 wrote...

Given that I don't see these items as a step down we're back to my point. A difference in tastes and preferences.

They are a step down in that category regarldess if you consider it important or not.
You may not put much importance of story, delivery and consistency and you enjoy the game on pure gampleay (gunning, leving) alone. That's all fine and dandy, but it doesn't make hte story any less flawed.

You feel that ME was in the 4 range on the Mohs scale that fell to a 3, I don't think it ever moved from 3. Why? Tastes and preferences in how we rationalize the universe because you felt it was harder sci-fi than I did.

No, we feel that way because it goes to far LESS effort to be harder on that scale (or to hide it).
Enough that it's very noticable.

[Lotion Soronarr]

didymos1120 wrote...

Well, since you're just repeating yourself, Lotion, you can simply re-read my last post on the matter. Lather. Rinse. Repeat as necessary. 

And you simply re-read mine. Repeat as necessary.

[Lotion Soronarr]

AlanC9 wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...
ME2 story/plot IS worse by any metric possible. It has more plot holes and more severe ones, more ass pulls, more hand-waves, more idiot balls.
You may like the story and characters, but doesn't change a thing. ME2 does some things right, but it also does soem things very wrong.

Note that "severe" is a value judgement. And since ME2 has a more diverse plot structure than ME1, in raw numbers of glitches the same level of inattention to detail would produce a larger absolute number of issues in ME2.

No it wouldn't.
ME2's main plot is simple enough.

But since you're talking like you've thought the point through, how about posting your detailed analysis? After all, the data will prove you're right, right? So just produce the data and you've got an easy win.

You kidding, right? This is BSN, there is no easy win, no matter how much data you produce.

And really, there have been plenty of topics analyzing ME2's plot and all the holes and defficiencies it has.
There are kids on YouTube pointing out the stupid parts. Kids.
So yeah, when even kids can call you out on bad writing, you know something is very wrong.

Modifié par Lotion Soronnar, 02 janvier 2012 - 08:14 .

[Il Divo]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Everythnig is debatable by those who refuse to see the truth. There are people debating evolution to this day. Doesn't make it any less of a fact.

ME2 story/plot IS worse by any metric possible. It has more plot holes and more severe ones, more ass pulls, more hand-waves, more idiot balls.
You may like the story and characters, but doesn't change a thing. ME2 does some things right, but it also does soem things very wrong.

So I guess this goes for you as well, then? After all, we should be consistent about applying such principles.

[Lotion Soronarr]

Il Divo wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Everythnig is debatable by those who refuse to see the truth. There are people debating evolution to this day. Doesn't make it any less of a fact.

ME2 story/plot IS worse by any metric possible. It has more plot holes and more severe ones, more ass pulls, more hand-waves, more idiot balls.
You may like the story and characters, but doesn't change a thing. ME2 does some things right, but it also does soem things very wrong.

So I guess this goes for you as well, then? After all, we should be consistent about applying such principles.

I would apply it to myself if the shoe fits. But it doesn't.

[AlexXIV]

AlanC9 wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...
ME2 story/plot IS worse by any metric possible. It has more plot holes and more severe ones, more ass pulls, more hand-waves, more idiot balls.
You may like the story and characters, but doesn't change a thing. ME2 does some things right, but it also does soem things very wrong.

Note that "severe" is a value judgement. And since ME2 has a more diverse plot structure than ME1, in raw numbers of glitches the same level of inattention to detail would produce a larger absolute number of issues in ME2.

But since you're talking like you've thought the point through, how about posting your detailed analysis? After all, the data will prove you're right, right? So just produce the data and you've got an easy win.

How will you give a value to story/plot in numbers I wonder? You can at best take parts and rate them, which is still only an opinon. I mean we are talking about fiction ok? Some people say this and that ruins their immersion, but it doesn't need to ruin mine. For example Jack didn't ruin mine at any point of the plot. Which says alot about my opinon of this thread and it's relevance. Because the only value that really counts is 'like it' or 'don't like it'. For whatever reason. Because you can't really tell people how they are supposed to be having fun. Bottomline if almost nobody cares, or only a neglectable number cares, then it is a neglectable concern. Not saying everything that went wrong with the plot is neglectable. But that's all the more reason for Bioware to focus on things that are more important.

[AlexXIV]

I would apply it to myself if the shoe fits. But it doesn't.

Judging by the sheer number of things you debate ... you know ... that's hard to believe.

[AlanC9]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

You kidding, right? This is BSN, there is no easy win, no matter how much data you produce.

Yeah, I'm kidding. But still, if you're going to talk about a subject you ought to at least pretend that you're making a case.  As opposed to simply asserting that evidence which you can't even be bothered to produce would prove you right if only someone else produced it for you.

And really, there have been plenty of topics analyzing ME2's plot and all the holes and defficiencies it has.
There are kids on YouTube pointing out the stupid parts. Kids.
So yeah, when even kids can call you out on bad writing, you know something is very wrong.

Is anyone saying that it isn't bad? The argument is that ME1 -- or pretty much any other VG -- isn't significantly better.

Hell, I'll expand that to popular sci-fi in general. Is the Millenium Falcon faster or slower than a TIE fighter? Depends on what scene we're watching.

[Il Divo]

AlanC9 wrote...

Is the Millenium Falcon faster or slower than a TIE fighter? Depends on what scene we're watching.

You're kidding, right? It's the ship that made the Kessel Run in less than twelve parsecs.

[AlexXIV]

Il Divo wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...

Is the Millenium Falcon faster or slower than a TIE fighter? Depends on what scene we're watching.

You're kidding, right? It's the ship that made the Kessel Run in less than twelve parsecs.

With the hyperdrive. But you can't use that for example in combat. Unless you are running from it.