905 réponses à ce sujet

[AlanC9]

AlexXIV wrote...

How will you give a value to story/plot in numbers I wonder? You can at best take parts and rate them, which is still only an opinon. I mean we are talking about fiction ok? Some people say this and that ruins their immersion, but it doesn't need to ruin mine. For example Jack didn't ruin mine at any point of the plot. Which says alot about my opinon of this thread and it's relevance. Because the only value that really counts is 'like it' or 'don't like it'. For whatever reason. Because you can't really tell people how they are supposed to be having fun. Bottomline if almost nobody cares, or only a neglectable number cares, then it is a neglectable concern. Not saying everything that went wrong with the plot is neglectable. But that's all the more reason for Bioware to focus on things that are more important.

Yep, pretty much this. We're all bringing different knowledge and concerns to the game, and we get different issues out. 

People are bothered by the breathing masks becauyse we've all seen astronauts and know what they look like. People (most, anyway) aren't bothered by, say, Star Wars' space fighters, because we don't ever see space fighters flying around. A player from a culture that actually had space fighters would find an X-wing every bit as ludicrous as a breathing mask being used in vacuum.

Modifié par AlanC9, 02 janvier 2012 - 08:28 .

[Abraham_uk]

AlanC9 wrote...

AlexXIV wrote...

How will you give a value to story/plot in numbers I wonder? You can at best take parts and rate them, which is still only an opinon. I mean we are talking about fiction ok? Some people say this and that ruins their immersion, but it doesn't need to ruin mine. For example Jack didn't ruin mine at any point of the plot. Which says alot about my opinon of this thread and it's relevance. Because the only value that really counts is 'like it' or 'don't like it'. For whatever reason. Because you can't really tell people how they are supposed to be having fun. Bottomline if almost nobody cares, or only a neglectable number cares, then it is a neglectable concern. Not saying everything that went wrong with the plot is neglectable. But that's all the more reason for Bioware to focus on things that are more important.

Yep, pretty much this. We're all bringing different knowledge and concerns to the game, and we get different issues out. 

People are bothered by the breathing masks becauyse we've all seen astronauts and know what they look like. People (most, anyway) aren't bothered by, say, Star Wars' space fighters, because we don't ever see space fighters flying around. A player from a culture that actually had space fighters would find an X-wing every bit as ludicrous as a breathing mask being used in vacuum.

I have to agree with you on this one. It's not that big an issue. It's just something small that can be fixed. If it's not done, it won't make that big a difference. It looks a bit silly that not everyone wears proper gear in battle.

Anyway I know my posts regarding armour (there has been a ton of angry remarks on the Ashley Armour thread from me) seem a bit angry but I was never really that fussed in the first place. It seems that putting an angry tone is the only way to be heard above all the noise. Perhaps I've just misunderstood forum culture.

If they don't fix the breathing masks, I'll just try and think of an amusing joke about how daft it all is. We can all relax and be calm. There are more important issues in the world to deal with, such as poverty, war, disease and famine.

[Tooneyman]

AlanC9 wrote...

AlexXIV wrote...

How will you give a value to story/plot in numbers I wonder? You can at best take parts and rate them, which is still only an opinon. I mean we are talking about fiction ok? Some people say this and that ruins their immersion, but it doesn't need to ruin mine. For example Jack didn't ruin mine at any point of the plot. Which says alot about my opinon of this thread and it's relevance. Because the only value that really counts is 'like it' or 'don't like it'. For whatever reason. Because you can't really tell people how they are supposed to be having fun. Bottomline if almost nobody cares, or only a neglectable number cares, then it is a neglectable concern. Not saying everything that went wrong with the plot is neglectable. But that's all the more reason for Bioware to focus on things that are more important.

Yep, pretty much this. We're all bringing different knowledge and concerns to the game, and we get different issues out. 

People are bothered by the breathing masks becauyse we've all seen astronauts and know what they look like. People (most, anyway) aren't bothered by, say, Star Wars' space fighters, because we don't ever see space fighters flying around. A player from a culture that actually had space fighters would find an X-wing every bit as ludicrous as a breathing mask being used in vacuum.

Bam!

[ODST 5723]

AlanC9 wrote...
Hell, I'll expand that to popular sci-fi in general. Is the Millenium Falcon faster or slower than a TIE fighter? Depends on what scene we're watching.

What kind of TIE Fighter?

Modifié par ODST 5723, 02 janvier 2012 - 09:00 .

[AlexXIV]

ODST 5723 wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...
Hell, I'll expand that to popular sci-fi in general. Is the Millenium Falcon faster or slower than a TIE fighter? Depends on what scene we're watching.

What kind of TIE Fighter?

The white and black sort.

[ODST 5723]

They're mostly that color.  So let's pick the most common.

The standard TIE/ln is capable of faster sublight speed in space andhas a higher maximum speed in atmosphere and superiormanueverability as a more modern and advanced fighter as compared to amuch older, though significantly modified, light freighter.

Her reputation for speed came entirely from the hyperdrive and modifications for long-distance travel. She was a marathon runner, not a sprinter.

As for minutia issues, the interior of the Falcon shown, like the Normandy, could not actually fit in the Falcon. And when necessary for plot purposes, it would become one of the fastest and most agile ships in the galaxy when it was time for a fight even though it should have been one of the most sluggish using the SW lore regarding space combat.  The breakdowns from the hodgepodge configuration were also used for comedic affect, to add tension, and in a couple cases as a transition tool for the story.

A wolfpack of TIE/ln's with the Academy's best pilots should have decimated the Falcon and most of the Rebel fleet of fighters, but couldn't, because the Rebels had plot armor.

Modifié par ODST 5723, 02 janvier 2012 - 09:04 .

[Iakus]

AlanC9 wrote...

People are bothered by the breathing masks becauyse we've all seen astronauts and know what they look like. People (most, anyway) aren't bothered by, say, Star Wars' space fighters, because we don't ever see space fighters flying around. A player from a culture that actually had space fighters would find an X-wing every bit as ludicrous as a breathing mask being used in vacuum.

More than that, though, is we saw helmets which at least bear a passing resemblence to functional in ME1.  In ME2, a few characters still wore helmets like that (Shepard, Garrus, Grunt) while everyone else is wearing "ludicrous X-wing-style" breathing masks.  

[Praetor Knight]

iakus wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...

People are bothered by the breathing masks becauyse we've all seen astronauts and know what they look like. People (most, anyway) aren't bothered by, say, Star Wars' space fighters, because we don't ever see space fighters flying around. A player from a culture that actually had space fighters would find an X-wing every bit as ludicrous as a breathing mask being used in vacuum.

More than that, though, is we saw helmets which at least bear a passing resemblence to functional in ME1.  In ME2, a few characters still wore helmets like that (Shepard, Garrus, Grunt) while everyone else is wearing "ludicrous X-wing-style" breathing masks.  

Zaeed and Thane (with his DLC armor) could also be considered to have passable-partial head gear. I've regularly used them along with Garrus and Grunt.

And I sometimes pretend that Kasumi had a full helmet, since she does have that hood...

Edit: Doh, and I forgot to mention Tali, but I recruit her so late in my playthroughs though.

Modifié par Praetor Shepard, 02 janvier 2012 - 11:35 .

[Zanallen]

AlanC9 wrote...

Yep, pretty much this. We're all bringing different knowledge and concerns to the game, and we get different issues out. 

People are bothered by the breathing masks becauyse we've all seen astronauts and know what they look like. People (most, anyway) aren't bothered by, say, Star Wars' space fighters, because we don't ever see space fighters flying around. A player from a culture that actually had space fighters would find an X-wing every bit as ludicrous as a breathing mask being used in vacuum.

And I still maintain that there is never a point in the game where your squad is in vacuum for more than, at the absolute most, 8 seconds.

[AlanC9]

ODST 5723 wrote...
The standard TIE/ln is capable of faster sublight speed in space andhas a higher maximum speed in atmosphere and superiormanueverability as a more modern and advanced fighter as compared to amuch older, though significantly modified, light freighter.

Her reputation for speed came entirely from the hyperdrive and modifications for long-distance travel. She was a marathon runner, not a sprinter.

Yeah, except for when they arrive at the ruins of Alderaan, and pursue and overtake a TIE fighter. Or at the battle of Endor when the ship is obviously as fast as every other fighter on screen.

But I see you get this already.

[AlexXIV]

Calinstel wrote...

Zanallen wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...

Yep, pretty much this. We're all bringing different knowledge and concerns to the game, and we get different issues out. 

People are bothered by the breathing masks becauyse we've all seen astronauts and know what they look like. People (most, anyway) aren't bothered by, say, Star Wars' space fighters, because we don't ever see space fighters flying around. A player from a culture that actually had space fighters would find an X-wing every bit as ludicrous as a breathing mask being used in vacuum.

And I still maintain that there is never a point in the game where your squad is in vacuum for more than, at the absolute most, 8 seconds.

Im sorry, but this is just an assinine statement.  If this were to say in an emergency, passing quickly from one place of safety to another, this would be fine.
But nowhere in the game does this occur.  They waltz from the crashed Normandy, across the OUTER hull of the Collector Base (in vaccuum) then enter the base.  There was plenty of time to don suits for the EVA.

Well one time Shep is in vaccum for a longer time. With a suit and helmet on, but it doesn't help much with a hole in it. So much for people's claim to realism. A suit doesn't help much in a combat situation in vaccum when you only need to get a hole in the system to be knocked out.

Modifié par AlexXIV, 03 janvier 2012 - 12:04 .

[Nashiktal]

Zanallen wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...

Yep, pretty much this. We're all bringing different knowledge and concerns to the game, and we get different issues out. 

People are bothered by the breathing masks becauyse we've all seen astronauts and know what they look like. People (most, anyway) aren't bothered by, say, Star Wars' space fighters, because we don't ever see space fighters flying around. A player from a culture that actually had space fighters would find an X-wing every bit as ludicrous as a breathing mask being used in vacuum.

And I still maintain that there is never a point in the game where your squad is in vacuum for more than, at the absolute most, 8 seconds.

Vacuum? Sure. What about inside a frakking brown dwarf. Seconds mean little.

[Zanallen]

Nashiktal wrote...

Vacuum? Sure. What about inside a frakking brown dwarf. Seconds mean little.

Which also never happens.

[Nashiktal]

AlexXIV wrote...

Calinstel wrote...

Zanallen wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...

Yep, pretty much this. We're all bringing different knowledge and concerns to the game, and we get different issues out. 

People are bothered by the breathing masks becauyse we've all seen astronauts and know what they look like. People (most, anyway) aren't bothered by, say, Star Wars' space fighters, because we don't ever see space fighters flying around. A player from a culture that actually had space fighters would find an X-wing every bit as ludicrous as a breathing mask being used in vacuum.

And I still maintain that there is never a point in the game where your squad is in vacuum for more than, at the absolute most, 8 seconds.

Im sorry, but this is just an assinine statement.  If this were to say in an emergency, passing quickly from one place of safety to another, this would be fine.
But nowhere in the game does this occur.  They waltz from the crashed Normandy, across the OUTER hull of the Collector Base (in vaccuum) then enter the base.  There was plenty of time to don suits for the EVA.

Well one time Shep is in vaccum for a longer time. With a suit and helmet on, but it doesn't help much with a hole in it. So much for people's claim to realism. A suit doesn't help much in a combat situation in vaccum when you only need to get a hole in the system to be knocked out.

Perhaps but being without a suit is even worse considering they should be unconcious already.

[Nashiktal]

Zanallen wrote...

Nashiktal wrote...

Vacuum? Sure. What about inside a frakking brown dwarf. Seconds mean little.

Which also never happens.

It does.

[AlexXIV]

Calinstel wrote...

AlexXIV wrote...

Well one time Shep is in vaccum for a longer time. With a suit and helmet on, but it doesn't help much with a hole in it. So much for people's claim to realism. A suit doesn't help much in a combat situation in vaccum when you only need to get a hole in the system to be knocked out.

The one time his suit was ruptured due to a ship exploding around him?  Okay.  It didn't help him much then.  Wait, what?  You're attempting to use THAT example to prove suits are not needed at all?  What?

No I am using it to make a point that a realistic game would probably be pretty boring. We suspend believe all the time. I mean isn't it odd that the suit fails one time only? And that when the plots demand it. Then take a look what else Shep is putting his suit/armor through and you don't get any noticable damage to it. I use it as an example to say same thing as always. Guys, it's a game. Chill. But nobody ever listens anyway so I probably needn't bother.

Modifié par AlexXIV, 03 janvier 2012 - 12:22 .

[JoePilot]

Realistic or not, for me it all hinges on the motivation for this design choice.

I wouldn't have such a problem with the breathing masks if they didn't accompany the spandex "armor" for certain female characters, and if there was a semi-plausible reason for their inclusion other than not wanting to obscure token sex kitten's face.

It's just such a blatant attempt to sexualize the female characters, it's obvious, transparent in it's motivation and it cheapens the series.

The visual designers have so little respect for the female characters that they find it necessary to send them into combat in cat suits with zero armor that are vacuum-formed to their curves. Not to mention lack of respect for their players. As a male gamer, Bioware's not only offending my sensibilities by assuming I have so little regard for women as people that such gratuitous displays will make me want to play their game, they're also insulting my intelligence by being so obvious about it.

Everyone knows what you're doing, Bioware. Especially with the needless Ashley redesign that turned what was a strong, confident take-it-or-leave-it character with a real sense of self-respect to a Victoria's Secret model with too much eye makeup.

To whomever comes up with these ideas: you suck.  And until these choices are explained, I'm going to go ahead and assume that the whole of Bioware are sexist chauvenist pigs for going along with them.

Modifié par JoePilot, 03 janvier 2012 - 12:38 .

[Nashiktal]

AlexXIV wrote...

Calinstel wrote...

AlexXIV wrote...

Well one time Shep is in vaccum for a longer time. With a suit and helmet on, but it doesn't help much with a hole in it. So much for people's claim to realism. A suit doesn't help much in a combat situation in vaccum when you only need to get a hole in the system to be knocked out.

The one time his suit was ruptured due to a ship exploding around him?  Okay.  It didn't help him much then.  Wait, what?  You're attempting to use THAT example to prove suits are not needed at all?  What?

No I am using it to make a point that a realistic game would probably be pretty boring. We suspend believe all the time. I mean isn't it odd that the suit fails one time only? And that when the plots demand it. Then take a look what else Shep is putting his suit/armor through and you don't get any noticable damage to it. I use it as an example to say same thing as always. Guys, it's a game. Chill. But nobody ever listens anyway so I probably needn't bother.

Saying its just a game is fine, but in doing so you sacrifice any chance for the game to ask us to take it seriously. Its a trade off.

Want us to not take the game seriously? Fine, then open up all the ridiculousness for all of us. Let shep wear the mask, let all the squadmates be romanceable to everyone, let us choose any persuasion option despite our "alignment," let us have a perfect ending (who needs a dramatic story? Its just a game, let us win with no consequences.)

Its the MST3k mantra at work.

[ODST 5723]

AlanC9 wrote...

ODST 5723 wrote...
The standard TIE/ln is capable of faster sublight speed in space andhas a higher maximum speed in atmosphere and superiormanueverability as a more modern and advanced fighter as compared to amuch older, though significantly modified, light freighter.

Her reputation for speed came entirely from the hyperdrive and modifications for long-distance travel. She was a marathon runner, not a sprinter.

Yeah, except for when they arrive at the ruins of Alderaan, and pursue and overtake a TIE fighter. Or at the battle of Endor when the ship is obviously as fast as every other fighter on screen.

But I see you get this already.

Of course.  Neither ship is going to run at top speed all the time.  So there are times where it could be plausible.  Especially when it's required by the plot.

[AlexXIV]

Nashiktal wrote...
Saying its just a game is fine, but in doing so you sacrifice any chance for the game to ask us to take it seriously. Its a trade off.

Want us to not take the game seriously? Fine, then open up all the ridiculousness for all of us. Let shep wear the mask, let all the squadmates be romanceable to everyone, let us choose any persuasion option despite our "alignment," let us have a perfect ending (who needs a dramatic story? Its just a game, let us win with no consequences.)

Its the MST3k mantra at work.

Well how serious do you want to take a sci-fi or fantasy video game? Of course you need to take it serious to be immersed in the plot's drama. But seriously, if something like a breathing mask or catsuit breaks your immersion then I have to wonder how you ever are immersed. Because there are many things that could disturb everyone. If you can't overlook somethings then you will never take anything serious in a video game. So how come that always the devs to blame that their game isn't realistic enough? Maybe it's the player's fault. Because they focus on details that don't even have anything to do with the story just to have a reason to complain.

Modifié par AlexXIV, 03 janvier 2012 - 12:45 .

[AlexXIV]

Calinstel wrote...

AlexXIV wrote...

Calinstel wrote...

AlexXIV wrote...

Well one time Shep is in vaccum for a longer time. With a suit and helmet on, but it doesn't help much with a hole in it. So much for people's claim to realism. A suit doesn't help much in a combat situation in vaccum when you only need to get a hole in the system to be knocked out.

The one time his suit was ruptured due to a ship exploding around him?  Okay.  It didn't help him much then.  Wait, what?  You're attempting to use THAT example to prove suits are not needed at all?  What?

No I am using it to make a point that a realistic game would probably be pretty boring. We suspend belief all the time. I mean isn't it odd that the suit fails one time only? And that when the plots demand it. Then take a look what else Shep is putting his suit/armor through and you don't get any noticable damage to it. I use it as an example to say same thing as always. Guys, it's a game. Chill. But nobody ever listens anyway so I probably needn't bother.

Not when the most basic concepts of space are thrown out the window.  I cannot ignore the stupidity in trying to use a breathing mask instead of properly sealed suits and helmets.  I have a VERY good imagination but there is no way in hell I can let something this basic slip by without commenting.

Okay, your out of the ship and happily tripping along in a vaccuum (or low pressure or caustic atmosphere or poisonous atmosphere or... ) wearing your skivies and breathing mask.  At want point does the outgassing of gasses through your cracking, freezing epidermis, the inablility to draw breath do to lack of pressure, the burning of your skin, the damage to your eyes, do you think "Hum, maybe a suit and helmet was a better idea?"

If you can deal with Shepard dying and 'getting better' then you can deal with this too. Because for me personally this is the part of the game I can't get over, despite the fact that such things as breathing masks don't bother me at all.