905 réponses à ce sujet

[Zanallen]

Calinstel wrote...

Im sorry, but this is just an assinine statement.  If this were to say in an emergency, passing quickly from one place of safety to another, this would be fine.
But nowhere in the game does this occur.  They waltz from the crashed Normandy, across the OUTER hull of the Collector Base (in vaccuum) then enter the base.  There was plenty of time to don suits for the EVA.

You'll notice by the fact that your squad isn't even wearing breathing masks and jump down from the Normandy onto the Collector base that you are not in a vacuum at that point.

[Zanallen]

Nashiktal wrote...

Zanallen wrote...

Nashiktal wrote...

Vacuum? Sure. What about inside a frakking brown dwarf. Seconds mean little.

Which also never happens.

It does.

Please, point out which portion of the game takes place within a brown dwarf with no protection.

[ODST 5723]

Shepard's not the only zombie in the ME universe. President Huerta's also a zombie.

[Iakus]

AlexXIV wrote...

If you can deal with Shepard dying and 'getting better' then you can deal with this too. Because for me personally this is the part of the game I can't get over, despite the fact that such things as breathing masks don't bother me at all.

I reserve the right to complain about both 

[Iakus]

Zanallen wrote...

Nashiktal wrote...

Zanallen wrote...

Nashiktal wrote...

Vacuum? Sure. What about inside a frakking brown dwarf. Seconds mean little.

Which also never happens.

It does.

Please, point out which portion of the game takes place within a brown dwarf with no protection.

RIght after the barriers go down and they're leaping to the Normandy.  TIM warned of "gale force winds and extremely high temperatures when telling Shep about the Derelict Reaper.  And lo and behold, Joker had to fly through 500kph winds to get to the Reaper!

[Nashiktal]

Zanallen wrote...

Nashiktal wrote...

Zanallen wrote...

Nashiktal wrote...

Vacuum? Sure. What about inside a frakking brown dwarf. Seconds mean little.

Which also never happens.

It does.

Please, point out which portion of the game takes place within a brown dwarf with no protection.

Reaper derelict. Right after you shut down its ME fields (note that the normandy's fields are barely able to keep the SHIP stable.) You jump through space (or in this case the brown dwarf's atmosphere) to the ship. This isn't even one of the colder stars either, the codex points out extremely high temperatures, gale winds that knock the normandy around, and all the various unbreathable (and rather bad for the skin) gasses.

[ODST 5723]

The Reaper's barrier wasn't up when they first arrived.  It's ME core was simply keeping it aloft and in orbit. Shepard and the crew were more concerned with getting out before they reached crush depth, not with a lack of atmosphere or exposure to vacuum.  In fact, they never mentioned it.  So any mention of it is inference based on some visual clues.

If you can rationalize the lack of decompression on the Citadel in ME1, you can rationalize the escape from the Derelict with little effort. They threw Legion from a piece of scaffolding which may have been inside of the Cerberus zone where they likely had equipment maintaining atmosphere and partial gravity.

Modifié par ODST 5723, 03 janvier 2012 - 12:59 .

[Zanallen]

iakus wrote...

RIght after the barriers go down and they're leaping to the Normandy.  TIM warned of "gale force winds and extremely high temperatures when telling Shep about the Derelict Reaper.  And lo and behold, Joker had to fly through 500kph winds to get to the Reaper!

There is obviously some protection provided. Otherwise once they hit the vacuum they would have been swept away by those winds and killed. You'll notice that those 500kph winds are still absent in the area around the reaper even after the barriers dropped. Most likely the ship didn't power down immediately after the core was destroyed, as evidenced by there still being gravity on the ship itself and some form of atmosphere.

[ODST 5723]

Zanallen wrote...

iakus wrote...

RIght after the barriers go down and they're leaping to the Normandy.  TIM warned of "gale force winds and extremely high temperatures when telling Shep about the Derelict Reaper.  And lo and behold, Joker had to fly through 500kph winds to get to the Reaper!

There is obviously some protection provided. Otherwise once they hit the vacuum they would have been swept away by those winds and killed. You'll notice that those 500kph winds are still absent in the area around the reaper even after the barriers dropped. Most likely the ship didn't power down immediately after the core was destroyed, as evidenced by there still being gravity on the ship itself and some form of atmosphere.

In fact, the husks that died dropped to the floor of the scaffolding.  It was only when tossed Legion toward the Normandy and they jumped off that scaffolding that you really even saw the reduced gravity.  Masks/helmets also went on, indicating at the very least that the oxygen level was falling or that they were concerned about it.  Not that they were in total vacuum.

Otherwise, a shuttle pickup would have been required.

Modifié par ODST 5723, 03 janvier 2012 - 01:07 .

[In Exile]

AlanC9 wrote..
As foir the actual topic... why are we talking so much about lore, which game has stupider errors and worse inconsistencies, and all of that stuff? Regardless of any of that, didn't the ME2 breathing masks simply fail on their own terms by looking stupid?

Although I'm not all that upset by this, myself. There are much stupider things left in the ME universe. Like Shepard buying equipment in shops with his own money. Every bit as stupid as breathing masks, except that I actually have to interact with this bit of stupidity rather than just ignoring a cutscene or two.

Well, that's the thing. I get the feeling some people want to say they've above saying this debate is just about which looks prettier.

Personally, I think realistic armour is always, almost as a rule, stupid looking.

[Zanallen]

Calinstel wrote...

Sorry, missed your reply.
Unless the Normandy crashed landed inside a hanger, they were in vacuum.  The fact that no one was wearing any protective headgear just shows that we all are considered science illiterates.  SciFi is the extrapolation of known sciences.  This does allow some sidestepping such as a FTL to allow the writer a chance to visit other worlds.  ME2 sits squarely in the sciFantasy realm now.  Nothing makes much sense but it doesn't have to.  Gone is the game I fell in love with.

Ah yes, in every other part of the game that would reasonably require a breathing mask Bioware adds them in, but conveniently doesn't do it for the final mission because they think no one would notice. Gotcha. That's far more believable than that area around the base being protected by a mass effect field similar to the one used on the Citadel. You know, the one that keeps the atmosphere in despite the fact that there is no cieling.

Shepard and his squad jump out of the Normandy doors and hit the ground. They don't float or anything of the sort. Obviously there is gravity. No one is wearing a helmet or breathing mask, despite them wearing them in every other part of the game that would require one. Seems to me that you are wrong and they weren't walking through a vacuum.

[Nashiktal]

Zanallen wrote...

iakus wrote...

RIght after the barriers go down and they're leaping to the Normandy.  TIM warned of "gale force winds and extremely high temperatures when telling Shep about the Derelict Reaper.  And lo and behold, Joker had to fly through 500kph winds to get to the Reaper!

There is obviously some protection provided. Otherwise once they hit the vacuum they would have been swept away by those winds and killed. You'll notice that those 500kph winds are still absent in the area around the reaper even after the barriers dropped. Most likely the ship didn't power down immediately after the core was destroyed, as evidenced by there still being gravity on the ship itself and some form of atmosphere.

That's exactly the point. The very fact that they are not protected and still have no ill effects is what bothers us. The fact that jack can run around in a vacuum almost naked and not even lampshade the fact, that apparenly all you need to survive is some masks.

They jumped through a brown dwarf, the normandy's ME fields are not sufficient to protect you and the reaper ship was out of power and had no ME fields left to keep it stable. (kinda the point of the mission)

[Iakus]

Zanallen wrote...

iakus wrote...

RIght after the barriers go down and they're leaping to the Normandy.  TIM warned of "gale force winds and extremely high temperatures when telling Shep about the Derelict Reaper.  And lo and behold, Joker had to fly through 500kph winds to get to the Reaper!

There is obviously some protection provided. Otherwise once they hit the vacuum they would have been swept away by those winds and killed. You'll notice that those 500kph winds are still absent in the area around the reaper even after the barriers dropped. Most likely the ship didn't power down immediately after the core was destroyed, as evidenced by there still being gravity on the ship itself and some form of atmosphere.

Yes.  And that protection was "We liked the look.  Deal with it" aka "Just go with it" 

[In Exile]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...
ME2 story/plot IS worse by any metric possible. It has more plot holes and more severe ones, more ass pulls, more hand-waves, more idiot balls.
You may like the story and characters, but doesn't change a thing. ME2 does some things right, but it also does soem things very wrong.

Oh, please. ME1 just rifles off the stupid before even making Shepard a Spectre. Lesse:

1) Tali's timeline and the existence of the geth transmission.
2) Garrus's timeline and the invesgation into Saren taking however long it takes the Normandy to get to the Citadel.

This one is just terrible. Now, to get to the idiot balls and asspulls. all still before making Shepard a Spectre:

3) Council actually buying that transmission.
4) Udina buying the story of the mentally unstable dock worker.
5) Harkin just happens to know that Anderson tried out as a Spectre

We've got plenty of other things, like the Rule-of-Cool Battle of the Citadel, Sovereign shutting down when Shepard kills Husk Saren, the Council (and Udina) pulling a 180 about the existence of the Repears after the battle of the Citadel with no new evidence, anyone there actually listening to Shepard for who to focus on... it really just goes on.

That's not to say that ME1 wasn't a fun Space Opera. But this notion that ME1 had some halfway coherent plot is silly.

[Zanallen]

Nashiktal wrote...

That's exactly the point. The very fact that they are not protected and still have no ill effects is what bothers us. The fact that jack can run around in a vacuum almost naked and not even lampshade the fact, that apparenly all you need to survive is some masks.

They jumped through a brown dwarf, the normandy's ME fields are not sufficient to protect you and the reaper ship was out of power and had no ME fields left to keep it stable. (kinda the point of the mission)

But that wasn't my point at all. My point was that there WAS some protection. The derelict reaper obviously did have some form of shielding that had not yet powered down. It still had gravity on the ship itself. The Normandy was still not being bombarded by the winds and the crew jumping was not immediately swept away to their deaths. Obviously the ship's shielding had not yet fully shut down. It no longer had the power to keep up the interior barriers or keep itself from falling into the brown dwarf, but some sort of life support was maintained.

Modifié par Zanallen, 03 janvier 2012 - 01:26 .

[Ahglock]

Not a fan of the breathing masks, but it wont break the game for me. It is michael bayafying the imagery IMO, but end of the day my concerns are more about the story and the game play.

[Zanallen]

Calinstel wrote...

It goes back to believability.  What is more believable, the fact that the Normandy miraculously crashed inside a hanger and that same hanger was pressurized OR the ship crashed on the hull, in full vacuum and BW decided to go for dramatic looks (seeing faces) and not anything resembling reality.  I do not ask for 100% realizism, but even 5% would have been nice.

Who said it was a hanger? The Citadel uses dual-layer mass effect fields to keep atmosphere within the wards despite the whole damn thing being open to space. The mass effect field surrounding the derelict reaper prevented 500kph winds from reaching the ship. Who's to say that the collector base doesn't have a similar barrier that keeps atmosphere and gravity in the area around the bade itself? Granted, given the size of the collector ship and the hole it flew out of, there is a very good chance that the Normandy could have crashed inside that massive hanger.

[In Exile]

Calinstel wrote...
It goes back to believability.  What is more believable, the fact that the Normandy miraculously crashed inside a hanger and that same hanger was pressurized OR the ship crashed on the hull, in full vacuum and BW decided to go for dramatic looks (seeing faces) and not anything resembling reality.  I do not ask for 100% realizism, but even 5% would have been nice.

In the scene where the spaceship filled with aliens travelled faster than light to the centre of the universe, fought a bigger spaceship filled with aliens using laserbeams in a field of space debris, flown by a sapient computer against a race of genetically engineered aliens by billion year old cybernetic space gods. I'm pretty sure "realism" was told to **** itself and die for dramatic presentationa  long time ago. Somewhere around the time when people said "Hey, let's design a video game!" 

I would understand if this wasn't a science-fiction game. But this is a genre that tells science to crawl into a hole and die as its very reason for existing.

[Praetor Knight]

Zanallen wrote...

Who said it was a hanger? The Citadel uses dual-layer mass effect fields to keep atmosphere within the wards despite the whole damn thing being open to space. The mass effect field surrounding the derelict reaper prevented 500kph winds from reaching the ship. Who's to say that the collector base doesn't have a similar barrier that keeps atmosphere and gravity in the area around the bade itself? Granted, given the size of the collector ship and the hole it flew out of, there is a very good chance that the Normandy could have crashed inside that massive hanger.

Just wanted to add to what's known of the Wards:

The atmosphere is contained by the centrifugal force of rotation and a "membrane" of dense, colorless sulphur hexafluoride gas, held in place by carefully managed mass effect fields.

From here: masseffect.wikia.com/wiki/Codex/Citadel_and_Galactic_Government#Citadel_Station:_Wards

Modifié par Praetor Shepard, 03 janvier 2012 - 01:37 .

[ODST 5723]

Aye, 7 meters of atmosphere kept in the Wards

[AlanC9]

Calinstel wrote...

But that is exactly the point.  When realism and science are thown out the window for the game, those littles bits that we all know about SHOULD be there.  Like needing space/armor/environmental suits with real helmets.  Things like that keep the game grounded with a little believability.  After all, they said it was scifi, not fantasy we were playing.

"Fantasy" doesn't give you a license to do silly stuff either. At least, it shouldn't.