905 réponses à ce sujet

[nitefyre410]

Candidate 88766 wrote...


*snip*

 


Hiding in plain sight - because no one would think that the  statue of the Mass Relay was an actually  functional Mass  Relay. Somestimes the best place to hide is in plain sight because people tend to will over look what is right in front of there faces.

Like the Council and the Reaper... right on there front door step that every surving  solider and ship from both fleets  has a memory of burned into their  psyche.  

Breath mask  silly  yeah maybe but  Council complete idocy and the supreme cover up... come'on man. Not one  surivior outside the main  returning cast comes up and says.  " Hey your Shepard... look they say your crazy, they say that,,, that,,, what ever we fought was a Geth Ship... I ain't buying."   

The  Council could very well be the worst immerison  breakers ever... no ruling body can that blissful stupid...oh wait.

Modifié par nitefyre410, 03 janvier 2012 - 12:15 .

[AlexXIV]

I always thought that the Council is not really that ignorant. They probably don't trust Shepard. Or they don't want him to know for some reason, can be for his own safety. Whatever, ME3 will show. If they really ignored the threat completely then they probably deserve to die. I just think that every race have their spec ops and secret service and they just can't miss all the evidence. That's really streching it too far. For example Kirrahe and the STG should at least have an idea who they are dealing with.

Modifié par AlexXIV, 03 janvier 2012 - 12:31 .

[Lotion Soronarr]

Someone With Mass wrote...
Do you even know how aerodynamics works?

Oh, and all ships are expected to work within an atmosphere. It'd be so pointless if it didn't, because then all ships in any fleet would have to rely on their shuttles to pick people off the ground, and those things simply don't have the firepower or durability of a ship like the Normandy to survive a battle. Mostly because they're not designed for dogfights.

Also, what if all the enemy ships landed on your planet, like the Reapers are doing and started to jam communications and sensors so you can't call in orbital strikes? You'd be screwed.

I do.

Work in atmospehe and operate in atmosphere are two different things.

Frigates CAN land on planets, but they rarely do so. And to land and take off, you don't need aerodynamics when you have ME field and enough engine power to LITERLAY make a cube-shaped ship fly.
Normandy has the Mako and Shuttle for a reason.

Again  - frigates are NOT expected to fight in atmosphere. They are SPACE craft. Space is their operational enviroment. If you just wnat to land for supplies or to drop troops, anyshape will be good enough.

Also, what's to stop ships from shooting from orbit? You don't even need any fancy sensors for that - simple optical targeting would be enough.
Also - atmosphere. damage to things is generally worse in atmosphere.

[nitefyre410]

AlexXIV wrote...

I always thought that the Council is not really that ignorant. They probably don't trust Shepard. Or they don't want him to know for some reason, can be for his own safety. Whatever, ME3 will show. If they really ignored the threat completely then they probably deserve to die. I just think that every race have their spec ops and secret service and they just can't miss all the evidence. That's really streching it too far. For example Kirrahe and the STG should at least have an idea who they are dealing with.

 

Oh you would be suprised

but  I hope you right... I really do.

[Lotion Soronarr]

AlexXIV wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

But it's not liek this silly reasoning is necessary, ti's way simpler than that.
Gameplay, fun, style, beleviabiltiy, story - these things are not opposites. You pare perfectly fine with sacrificing believabiltiy for gameplay...and you're well entilted to it.
BUT - the point is that such a sacrafice is totally unnecessary.

You can have all the great gameplay AND improved beleviability. You gain somethnig, loose nothing. How is that NOT better? It's basic common sense.

Think about it for a second.
Say Shepard wasn't dead for a month and Cerberus picked up his body immediately. Does it change the gameplay? Nope. Does it hurt the story? Nope. Is it more believable? Yes.
Hence - better!

Would the option of sealed suits for your teammates hurt gampley? Nope.
Hence - better.

I can go on an on, telling you of simple ways to improve believabiltiy and avoid some plot holes/ass pulls/inconsistencies that would have no effect on gameplay whatsoever. So why didn't the devs put them in?
Because they didn' tcare, it's as simple as that.

I agree on the Shep's death thing. As I said it bothers me too. But it is a plot issue. Not about functionality of gear or whatever. Well except that her/his suit was damaged. I wish at this point we could know Bioware's stance on these things. Because I think 'they don't care' is the simplified version and it's not really accurate. They probably have reasons even if some of us don't agree with them. And be it only because of deadlines. Which doesn't mean that they can't make wrong calls on certain subjects.

If the glove fits....
Hoels in the plot and inconsistencies are easy to spot. Kidns can do it (and have done it). Tehre's absolutely no excuse.
Not deadlines - because it's so easily fixable it's funny.

But look in one cutscene you see Jack ripping apart 2 Ymir at once. She never does that when she is in your team. So some scenes are just to show something and then you go back to gameplay mechanics which 'nerf' some skills for balance sake. It's just this kind of thing that you can't take overly serious and you need to be genre savy enough. Some things happen for a reason that we don't know. Because it is due to a part of development or the genre, or market or writing or what do I know.

Which is why I generaly dislike such huge disconnect. You can get around it, but again, bioware didn't.
BioWare moves in mysterous ways?

Point is, it is not wrong to say, hey these breathing masks don't make sense in this and that scene. But you people are blowing it out of proportions. Which is the same for many topics. It's not just a discussion you add insult to injury and make claims to someone's intelligence or lazyness or whatever. It bothers you (and others), good. I am sure Bioware have noticed since they follow their forums.

I'm not blowing anything out of proportaion. It's a flaw. Fact. For some peopel it can ruin the whole atmosphere/setting.
You don't care about it so you downplay it.

I can call out Bioware on their "vision" or any design decision.

If people would be a bit more understanding then Bioware devs may even bother to come here and explain the one thing or other. But seeing how if you say anything, can be something completely random, gets you mostly over-reactions from people who are entitled to their opinions and actually act as if Bioware owes them something I can't really blame them for staying away.

BioWare doesn't owe me anything. But they put out a product. They set up some expectations. They write a story.

I can and I will criticize any lack of quality in any aspect - gamepaly, story, atmosphere, etc...

[Someone With Mass]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Also, what's to stop ships from shooting from orbit? You don't even need any fancy sensors for that - simple optical targeting would be enough.
Also - atmosphere. damage to things is generally worse in atmosphere.

Optical targeting for orbital strikes...

Yeah. Sure.

A nicer word for eyeballing it.

That'd only make it possible to do orbital strikes on a clear day, and it'd be based on guesswork at best.

A computer is calculating the fire solution, and if that computer can't receive any data from its sensors, then it won't be able to calculate crap.

As for the cube shaped idiocy, I can say only one word: FRICTION.

Modifié par Someone With Mass, 03 janvier 2012 - 12:48 .

[Phaedon]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Phaedon wrote...
Upon finding full hardsuits for your squadmates, you should definitely outfit them properly. The problem is that you don't.

Which exactly the problem with ME2.
Good you finally realise it.

Actually.

I have specifically asked you for a valid source of you having enough funding to buy full armor for every squadmate.
You have failed to produce one.

You said that Cerberus funds you per succesful mission.
After failing to prove that that is not a gameplay mechanic, you go ahead and claim that the correlation of the facts that Cerberus may be funding you and the funds not being enough to buy an armor set is actually, a gameplay mechanic, instead.

None of the markets in ME2 handing out full hardsuits is the problem, now, not the breathing masks?

[AlexXIV]

Phaedon wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Phaedon wrote...
Upon finding full hardsuits for your squadmates, you should definitely outfit them properly. The problem is that you don't.

Which exactly the problem with ME2.
Good you finally realise it.

Actually.

I have specifically asked you for a valid source of you having enough funding to buy full armor for every squadmate.
You have failed to produce one.

You said that Cerberus funds you per succesful mission.
After failing to prove that that is not a gameplay mechanic, you go ahead and claim that the correlation of the facts that Cerberus may be funding you and the funds not being enough to buy an armor set is actually, a gameplay mechanic, instead.

None of the markets in ME2 handing out full hardsuits is the problem, now, not the breathing masks?

Sorry but they put billions of credits into reviving Shep and rebuilding the Normandy but can't buy the crew proper armor? Unlikely. It is rather the other way round. The game mechanic is that Shepard is upgrading himself. Because it is an RPG and people want to do this kind of thing themselves. Aka searching and finding things to upgrade their toon.

[nitefyre410]

Someone With Mass wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Also, what's to stop ships from shooting from orbit? You don't even need any fancy sensors for that - simple optical targeting would be enough.
Also - atmosphere. damage to things is generally worse in atmosphere.

Optical targeting for orbital strikes...

Yeah. Sure.

A nicer word for eyeballing it.

That'd only make it possible to do orbital strikes on a clear day, and it'd be based on guesswork at best.

A computer is calculating the fire solution, and if that computer can't receive any data from its sensors, then it won't be able to calculate crap.

As for the cube shaped idiocy, I can say only one word: FRICTION.

Solider: We need an Orbital strike

Ship:  Sorry Orbital Strike is a no go

Solider:  What Why?!! 

Ship:  Its cloudly day  in that area..we can't see. #Trollface

Solider: FFFFUUUUUUU  ... *dies*

kinda like  that

[Phaedon]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...
I do.

Work in atmospehe and operate in atmosphere are two different things.

Frigates CAN land on planets, but they rarely do so.

Source?

And to land and take off, you don't need aerodynamics when you have ME field and enough engine power to LITERLAY make a cube-shaped ship fly.
Normandy has the Mako and Shuttle for a reason.

But both of those are deployed after the frigate is within the atmosphere, especially the Mako. Being too close to the planet is problematic with the shuttle, because the Cerberus redesign was problematic, and they failed to create a mass effect drive effective one to handle the excessive load they added.

Again  - frigates are NOT expected to fight in atmosphere. They are SPACE craft. Space is their operational enviroment. If you just wnat to land for supplies or to drop troops, anyshape will be good enough.

Source? The wiki only says this:

Frigates are capable of entering a planet's atmosphere and landing on the surface, but must first deactivate their kinetic barriers for re-entry.

Are you saying that frigates lack GARDIAN arrays? Or that space ports don't have landing pads? You know, parking a cruiser or a dreadnaught might be a bit problematic, seeing as the Normandy, a heavy frigate herself caught up plenty of space.

In fact, since frigates are mainly used for recon and patrolling, I don't see why they aren't suitable for the atmosphere. Actually, a very specific kind of frigates have been seen to do that, in both games. A lot. Geth Dropships.

Also, what's to stop ships from shooting from orbit? You don't even need any fancy sensors for that - simple optical targeting would be enough.
Also - atmosphere. damage to things is generally worse in atmosphere.

It's a bit funny, because the buzzphrase "optical targetting" derives from "opsis", which is pretty much a dead hint for eyeballing. Alliance captains don't like eyeballing, in case you forgot.

[AlexXIV]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

BioWare doesn't owe me anything. But they put out a product. They set up some expectations. They write a story.

I can and I will criticize any lack of quality in any aspect - gamepaly, story, atmosphere, etc...

I'm not saying that to you especially, just people in general on the BSN.

It is not about critizism it is how people communitcate it. Mostly in a rather premature fashion tbh. Like yelling, calling names and insinuating things that are not really based on anything than someone's opinon.

[Phaedon]

AlexXIV wrote...
Sorry but they put billions of credits into reviving Shep and rebuilding the Normandy but can't buy the crew proper armor? Unlikely. It is rather the other way round. The game mechanic is that Shepard is upgrading himself. Because it is an RPG and people want to do this kind of thing themselves. Aka searching and finding things to upgrade their toon.

That is a good assumption, but it is unfounded.

It assumes that :

a) Cerberus would wire credits, in fact, plenty of them to Shepard, whose account is suspicious enough as it is.

The shops that you visit on the Citadel and Omega should be selling hardsuits. 

[AlexXIV]

Phaedon wrote...

AlexXIV wrote...
Sorry but they put billions of credits into reviving Shep and rebuilding the Normandy but can't buy the crew proper armor? Unlikely. It is rather the other way round. The game mechanic is that Shepard is upgrading himself. Because it is an RPG and people want to do this kind of thing themselves. Aka searching and finding things to upgrade their toon.

That is a good assumption, but it is unfounded.

It assumes that :

a) Cerberus would wire credits, in fact, plenty of them to Shepard, whose account is suspicious enough as it is.

The shops that you visit on the Citadel and Omega should be selling hardsuits. 

They sell upgrades to your hardsuit. Which is basically the same. I mean you can even configure your hardsuit. Which suggests you have all the parts available. In all colors etc. unless you paint them yourself.

Thing is if you have a mission of such importance and invest so much money in the Ship and the leader, would you of all places save money when it comes to ground missions? If I was Cerberus I'd give them the best equipment available because if they fail, the whole project fails. Not sure if TIM actually assumes Shep is awesome enough to complete these missions in underwear.

Modifié par AlexXIV, 03 janvier 2012 - 01:08 .

[Lotion Soronarr]

Someone With Mass wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Also, what's to stop ships from shooting from orbit? You don't even need any fancy sensors for that - simple optical targeting would be enough.
Also - atmosphere. damage to things is generally worse in atmosphere.

Optical targeting for orbital strikes...

Yeah. Sure.

A nicer word for eyeballing it.

That'd only make it possible to do orbital strikes on a clear day, and it'd be based on guesswork at best.

A computer is calculating the fire solution, and if that computer can't receive any data from its sensors, then it won't be able to calculate crap.

As for the cube shaped idiocy, I can say only one word: FRICTION.

Optical is just one way to go. There's many different ways to detect something in atmosphere and very few ways of practical cloaking, especially something as big as a reaper.

And if a reaper lands, just ICBM it. Why would you bring starships down, in atmosphere, where they are are MORE vulnerable and LESS nimble?


Regarding friction - depends on speed. A boxy ship can perfectly well land and take off with ME fields.

[Lotion Soronarr]

Phaedon wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Phaedon wrote...
Upon finding full hardsuits for your squadmates, you should definitely outfit them properly. The problem is that you don't.

Which exactly the problem with ME2.
Good you finally realise it.

Actually.

I have specifically asked you for a valid source of you having enough funding to buy full armor for every squadmate.
You have failed to produce one.

You said that Cerberus funds you per succesful mission.
After failing to prove that that is not a gameplay mechanic, you go ahead and claim that the correlation of the facts that Cerberus may be funding you and the funds not being enough to buy an armor set is actually, a gameplay mechanic, instead.

None of the markets in ME2 handing out full hardsuits is the problem, now, not the breathing masks?

Wut? You're making no sense. You seem to argue incredibly silly things.

Cerberus ins't funding us because the game developers don't allows us to buy armor for squadmates?

It's like saying Sheppard is not allowing his crew to go  to bathroom, because the game mechanics don't allow us to send them to the john.

If you have a point to make, I'm not seeing it.

[Il Divo]

AlexXIV wrote...

Neither the Council nor Udina ever admit openly that they believe Shep's story. They actually ground Shep and the Normandy so he/she has to steal her to get to Ilos. Next thing is they talk after beating Sovereign in which Shep reminds them of the Reaper threat and walks off. Only Anderson believes Shepard, and it doesn't change in ME2.

Actually, in both cases, paragon and renegade, the Council/Udina name drop the Reapers as a threat they have to deal with.

Paragon:
Renegade:

[JohnLawson]

I seriously dont know how a mask bothers people.

Modifié par JohnLawson, 03 janvier 2012 - 01:18 .

[Someone With Mass]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Regarding friction - depends on speed. A boxy ship can perfectly well land and take off with ME fields.

You're not getting it, are you? If a ship is of an aerodynamic design, then it saves more energy compared to when it's not. Aerodynamics 101.

And what if those ME fields goes offline? Then your "ship" goes down like the brick it is.

[Il Divo]

Phaedon wrote...

That is a good assumption, but it is unfounded.

It assumes that :

a) Cerberus would wire credits, in fact, plenty of them to Shepard, whose account is suspicious enough as it is.

The shops that you visit on the Citadel and Omega should be selling hardsuits. 

I'd say it's pretty well-founded when we consider all the funds Illusive Man put into rebuilding Shepard, the Normandy, the creation of EDI, as well as all the additional weapons/armor he gives to Shepard in the case of dlc. There's no reason why Shepard would have to purchase the gear himself, similar to ME1 being a Spectre. TIM easily could have had all the equipment necessary on the spot.

[nitefyre410]

JohnLawson wrote...

I seriously dont know how a mask bothers people.

 

especailly when you time skip is explain by your main character being dead for two years and becoming the 4 billion  credit man. 

but

breathing mask are  annoying need to be changed.

[Lotion Soronarr]

Phaedon wrote...

Work in atmospehe and operate in atmosphere are two different things.

Frigates CAN land on planets, but they rarely do so.

Source?

They are spaceships. Space is their operating theater.

It's like asking me to prove planes are designed for areal combat and that then not being able to out-perform tanks on the ground is a design faliure.

And to land and take off, you don't need aerodynamics when you have ME field and enough engine power to LITERLAY make a cube-shaped ship fly.
Normandy has the Mako and Shuttle for a reason.

But both of those are deployed after the frigate is within the atmosphere, especially the Mako. Being too close to the planet is problematic with the shuttle, because the Cerberus redesign was problematic, and they failed to create a mass effect drive effective one to handle the excessive load they added.

Shuttle craft have a far longer range and we see you don't have to be in atmosphere.

Alosm since when is entering atmospehre to drop a shuttle the same as full combat manouvers at max speed?

Again  - frigates are NOT expected to fight in atmosphere. They are SPACE craft. Space is their operational enviroment. If you just wnat to land for supplies or to drop troops, anyshape will be good enough.

Source? The wiki only says this:

Frigates are capable of entering a planet's atmosphere and landing on the surface, but must first deactivate their kinetic barriers for re-entry.

Dude, it's a space ship. It uses ME fields to lower it's mass.  It has powerfull engines.
It doesn't require lift to keep howering.

Are you saying that frigates lack GARDIAN arrays? Or that space ports don't have landing pads? You know, parking a cruiser or a dreadnaught might be a bit problematic, seeing as the Normandy, a heavy frigate herself caught up plenty of space.

In fact, since frigates are mainly used for recon and patrolling, I don't see why they aren't suitable for the atmosphere. Actually, a very specific kind of frigates have been seen to do that, in both games. A lot. Geth Dropships.

They are dropships. Their whole purpose IS to enter atmosphere and drop troops.
Frigates are for patrollign vast areas of sapce. Space stations and planets are PORTS. Stops to re-fuel and re-arm.
Tehy aren't going ot be dog-fighting in atmosphere.

Also, what's to stop ships from shooting from orbit? You don't even need any fancy sensors for that - simple optical targeting would be enough.
Also - atmosphere. damage to things is generally worse in atmosphere.

It's a bit funny, because the buzzphrase "optical targetting" derives from "opsis", which is pretty much a dead hint for eyeballing. Alliance captains don't like eyeballing, in case you forgot.

Powerull telescopes and cameras. Don't diss em.
Also ,radar, Lidar and every other kind of detection and tageting method avilable.


But it's still compeltely irrelevant as I again have to ask - why would you send a frigate to fight in atmosphere IN THE FIRST PLACE when it's more vulnerable and less nimble there?

Modifié par Lotion Soronnar, 03 janvier 2012 - 01:25 .

[JohnLawson]

You all gotta recgonize it's just a game.. god damn.

[Someone With Mass]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...


And if a reaper lands, just ICBM it. Why would you bring starships down, in atmosphere, where they are are MORE vulnerable and LESS nimble?

Oculi, GARDIAN lasers and kinetic barriers. The collateral damage would also hurt you even more, and they're pretty much guaranteeing that they won't get hit from orbit by dreadnoughts when they're on the ground in major cities that the humans care about and where there's still a major population.

Gee, I wonder if it has something to do with the fact that they're easier to discover in space and that the Reapers have proven that they can outmaneuver the Alliance ships anyway. Not to mention that in space, they're vulnerable from all sides and any Reaper can just do a sneak attack on them.

Modifié par Someone With Mass, 03 janvier 2012 - 01:30 .

[Lotion Soronarr]

Someone With Mass wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Regarding friction - depends on speed. A boxy ship can perfectly well land and take off with ME fields.

You're not getting it, are you? If a ship is of an aerodynamic design, then it saves more energy compared to when it's not. Aerodynamics 101.

Energy is not an issue for ME frigates.

And what if those ME fields goes offline? Then your "ship" goes down like the brick it is.

What if you engines die? What if your wings fall off?

Stupid question is stupid.

[Lotion Soronarr]

If repaers land, Collateral damage is not an issue.

Also, how does loosing frigates help you win? In atmosphere, tehy loose speed and manuverability. Even a glancing shot would deal far more damage due to atmospheric effects.

Also, we see the quarian flotilla destroying everything with their orbital strike in ME3...Oh, wait. No we don't!