905 réponses à ce sujet

[Ravensword]

Nexis7 wrote...

...guys you need to find more outlets

Nice avatar.

[Terror_K]

Chris Priestly wrote...

I should start off by saying to Terror K that I am sorry for belittling his concern (in the last thread). While I personally find people who get upset over seemly minor details to be overreacting, that doesn't give me the right to make light of his concern. He is concerned because, for him at least, it is an immersion breaker and anything that breaks our players immersion in the games is taken seriously by the dev team. I only said it in that manner as I know Terror has been here a long time and I thought, from prior conversations, we had a certain raport between us. Obviouly I misjudged the situation and my phrasing was uncalled for.

That being said, the dev team looks at issues like this and makes judgements. They listen to fans and, when possible, work to accomodate as many fans as possible. It is listening to them like this that has created things like helmet toggles to try to accomodate a wide variety of interests. There are reasons to have breathing masks in game. And I don't mean "the team was too lazy to make helmets" or whatever, but some fine story based reasons (like one area where "someone" has vented the atmosphere out of a room you are passing through). The team has spent a lot of time making facial animations and dialogs that we want you to see faces for. Now, as I mentioned, toggles, situations where masks are appropriate, etc so sometimes you will see a breathing mask. Hopefully people will look at it and eitehr accept it, or at worst begrudgingly understand why they were used.

Here's the thing, Chris... you can call it "trivial" or "seemingly minor" or whatever, but things like this are a personal matter. To me I got into Mass Effect originally because it was an experience more than a game and because it was a well thought out, tight, sci-fi universe I could really sink my teeth into. Mass Effect wasn't strictly hard science, but it was at least consistent and believable in its own right. It set rules and adhered to them for the most part.

To me, a lot of the changes such as breathing masks and exposed outfits with no real protection turned the entire thing into a farce just for the sake of being more akin to a Michael Bay action movie than classic sci-fi, or at least that's how it came across. As I said in the original topic, you have one of the most major plot points as the protagonist being spaced and killed and try to make a big deal of it, even on an emotional level sometimes, but the rest of the game constantly trivialises it all by having characters wearing stupid outfits with only a breathing mask to protect them from the dangers of space... the very factors that got Shepard killed in the first place. You have chlorine gas atmosphere worlds, worlds of varying temperatures, pressures and toxins to visit and The Migrant Fleet, a place that in Ascension was clearly illustrated that contamination was a major concern when the book's protagonists visited yet Jack or Samara can go in with exposed skin and just a breathing mask.

It quite frankly turned the whole thing into a farce, and it wasn't even for a gameplay reason. The Thermal Clips annoyed me so much because of the various logic errors, but at least they had a gameplay reason behind them. There was no reason related to gameplay at all with regards to the silly, impractical garb much of the crew were in in ME2. And when I'm playing something and getting into a universe to lose myself in it and when immersion is so key to that, it's pathetic, annoying and very much a major factor to me to see the entire universe being made a complete farce for the sake of aethetics that for the most part seem to only have juvenile reasonings behind them (i.e. to simply sexify and make the series more "teh badassorz!"). It just pulls me out of the game, makes it impossible to take the Mass Effect setting seriously any more and ruins my enjoyment entirely. I was often limited to using the likes of Garrus, Tali and/or Legion simply because using everybody else just annoyed me and made me want to quit the game and stop playing.

To be honest, I just expected better of BioWare from the start. After ME1 I didn't expect them to make such an aethetic choice that is, IMO, juvenile and thoughtless. I didn't expect them to craft such a wonderful, intricate and believable universe one moment, only to throw it down the toilet with such a poor design choice that appears to have no practical thought behind it, doesn't improve gameplay or even impact it at all and only seems to have come about to shift the direction of Mass Effect to a more bombastic, sexified, badass, etc. form that tries to hard to adhere to the "rule of cool" and puts style ahead of substance. And quite frankly your response in the earlier thread just seemed to confirm my fears about BioWare and the Mass Effect team no longer caring about the integrity, consistency and logic of their creation if they can just aim it to appeal to the masses of violence-loving, horny teenagers out there.

The thing is, that is exactly how decisions like the impractical outfits with breathing masks in ME2 and responses like yours put across to me. You and others may be sick of the fact that lately I seem so down on your company, your games, your direction and even the team(s) themselves, but it's coming from the fact that so many of the things you guys do and say lately is giving me this impression. If you don't want me to keep saying that I feel you're betraying me as an old fan, that the direction I feel you're taking Mass Effect in is bad and that you're trying too hard at appealing more to the mainstream and newcomers with pandering and bad design decisions than you are the fans who came in on the ground floor, etc., then stop constantly making comments, decisions and products that make me feel this way. Stop acting like you feel style is more important than substance and stop acting like you're pandering to the mainstream and I'll stop accusing you of it.

To bring it back on-topic, the fact is, you can say that there are practical reasons for the choices all you like, but how am I supposed to really believe that and take that on good faith with nothing to back it up? Everything points to it being a silly aethetic choice. That's all it was in ME2. Despite complaints about it from the fans, it was still an issue when LotSB came out with Liara. It was still an issue after the Miranda armour came based on fan feedback and she still had a silly breathing mask, illustrating that the point was largely missed as to why a proper outfit for her was even called for. And, more recently, you just told me to "deal with it" and that breather masks are coming back for no practical, tangible or logical reason beyond "we like them." Breather masks as an acceptable solution to combat the dangers of space should not only be an option for ME3, they should never have been an issue in the first place with ME2.

So, how am I as a fan dangerously close to being a former fan, supposed to believe that BioWare and the ME team even understand when there's really been no clear evidence that they do?

Modifié par Terror_K, 29 décembre 2011 - 02:21 .

[Nexis7]

Ravensword wrote...

Nexis7 wrote...

...guys you need to find more outlets

Nice avatar.

You too! Yours looks slightly familiar... wonder why..

[Iakus]

Ser Bard wrote...

If seeing squadies faces is that important to BW why not have a full helmet with a clear face?

The masks just look silly imo.

Your logic and common sense compromises have no place here, Ser!

[Ravensword]

Nexis7 wrote...

Ravensword wrote...

Nexis7 wrote...

...guys you need to find more outlets

Nice avatar.

You too! Yours looks slightly familiar... wonder why..

Happy face.

[MELTOR13]

The fact that Chris even felt the need to apologize is depressing. It makes absolutely no sense that forumgoers can act like complete ****s all the time, to anyone and everyone, with no repercussions, but a mod or dev makes one blunt statement to a forumite and then all the sudden there's some upheaval about how we're mistreated and BioWare doesn't like their fans.

Whatever, BSN. There's a reason BioWare "fans" have the reputation they have.

[Iakus]

Terror_K wrote...
Here's the thing, Chris... you can call it "trivial" or "seemingly minor" or whatever, but things like this are a personal matter. To me I got into Mass Effect originally because it was an experience more than a game and because it was a well thought out, tight, sci-fi universe I could really sink my teeth into. Mass Effect wasn't strictly hard science, but it was at least consistent and believable in its own right. It set rules and adhered to them for the most part.

To me, a lot of the changes such as breathing masks and exposed outfits with no real protection turned the entire thing into a farce just for the sake of being more akin to a Michael Bay action movie than classic sci-fi, or at least that's how it came across. As I said in the original topic, you have one of the most major plot points as the protagonist being spaced and killed and try to make a big deal of it, even on an emotional level sometimes, but the rest of the game constantly trivialises it all by having characters wearing stupid outfits with only a breathing mask to protect them from the dangers of space... the very factors that got Shepard killed in the first place. You have chlorine gas atmosphere worlds, worlds of varying temperatures, pressures and toxins to visit and The Migrant Fleet, a place that in Ascension was clearly illustrated that contamination was a major concern when the book's protagonists visited yet Jack or Samara can go in with exposed skin and just a breathing mask.

It quite frankly turned the whole thing into a farce, and it wasn't even for a gameplay reason. The Thermal Clips annoyed me so much because of the various logic errors, but at least they had a gameplay reason behind them. There was no reason related to gameplay at all with regards to the silly, impractical garb much of the crew were in in ME2. And when I'm playing something and getting into a universe to lose myself in it and when immersion is so key to that, it's pathetic, annoying and very much a major factor to me to see the entire universe being made a complete farce for the sake of aethetics that for the most part seem to only have juvenile reasonings behind them (i.e. to simply sexify and make the series more "teh badassorz!"). It just pulls me out of the game, makes it impossible to take the Mass Effect setting seriously any more and ruins my enjoyment entirely. I was often limited to using the likes of Garrus, Tali and/or Legion simply because using everybody else just annoyed me and made me want to quit the game and stop playing.

To be honest, I just expected better of BioWare from the start. After ME1 I didn't expect them to make such an aethetic choice that is, IMO, juvenile and thoughtless. I didn't expect them to craft such a wonderful, intricate and believable universe one moment, only to throw it down the toilet with such a poor design choice that appears to have no practical thought behind it, doesn't improve gameplay or even impact it at all and only seems to have come about to shift the direction of Mass Effect to a more bombastic, sexified, badass, etc. form that tries to hard to adhere to the "rule of cool" and puts style ahead of substance. And quite frankly your response in the earlier thread just seemed to confirm my fears about BioWare and the Mass Effect team no longer caring about the integrity, consistency and logic of their creation if they can just aim it to appeal to the masses of violence-loving, horny teenagers out there.

The thing is, that is exactly how decisions like the impractical outfits with breathing masks in ME2 and responses like yours put across to me. You and others may be sick of the fact that lately I seem so down on your company, your games, your direction and even the team(s) themselves, but it's coming from the fact that so many of the things you guys do and say lately is giving me this impression. If you don't want me to keep saying that I feel you're betraying me as an old fan, that the direction I feel you're taking Mass Effect in is bad and that you're trying too hard at appealing more to the mainstream and newcomers with pandering and bad design decisions than you are the fans who came in on the ground floor, etc., then stop constantly making comments, decisions and products that make me feel this way. Stop acting like you feel style is more important than substance and stop acting like you're pandering to the mainstream and I'll stop accusing you of it.

To bring it back on-topic, the fact is, you can say that there are practical reasons for the choices all you like, but how am I supposed to really believe that and take that on good faith with nothing to back it up? Everything points to it being a silly aethetic choice. That's all it was in ME2. Despite complaints about it from the fans, it was still an issue when LotSB came out with Liara. It was still an issue after the Miranda armour came based on fan feedback and she stilly had a silly breathing mask, illustrating that the point was largely missed as to why a proper outfit for her was even called for. And, more recently, you just told me to "deal with it" and that breather masks are coming back for no practical, tangible or logical reason beyond "we like them." Breather masks as an acceptable solution to combat the dangers of space should not only be an option for ME3, they should never have been an issue in the first place with ME2.

So, how am I as a fan dangerously close to being a former fan, supposed to believe that BioWare and the ME team even understand when there's really been no clear evidence that they do?

Bravo, man.  Bravo.

[didymos1120]

Arcian wrote...

Kinetic barriers created by ME can maintain and contain artificial, local atmospheres, which is why it was possible to move about the Derelict Reaper, why you don't need suits to walk the streets of Mars, or I don't know, why it's possible to live on the f***ing Citadel.

Technically, those aren't kinetic barriers. That term applies specifically to the ME field technology designed to deflect projectiles. The atmosphere retention thing would have some other name, like how the thing on Therum was called a "barrier curtain".

Modifié par didymos1120, 29 décembre 2011 - 02:25 .

[Lotion Soronarr]

Terror_K wrote...
Here's the thing, Chris... you can call it "trivial" or "seemingly minor" or whatever, but things like this are a personal matter. To me I got into Mass Effect originally because it was an experience more than a game and because it was a well thought out, tight, sci-fi universe I could really sink my teeth into. Mass Effect wasn't strictly hard science, but it was at least consistent and believable in its own right. It set rules and adhered to them for the most part.

To me, a lot of the changes such as breathing masks and exposed outfits with no real protection turned the entire thing into a farce just for the sake of being more akin to a Michael Bay action movie than classic sci-fi, or at least that's how it came across. As I said in the original topic, you have one of the most major plot points as the protagonist being spaced and killed and try to make a big deal of it, even on an emotional level sometimes, but the rest of the game constantly trivialises it all by having characters wearing stupid outfits with only a breathing mask to protect them from the dangers of space... the very factors that got Shepard killed in the first place. You have chlorine gas atmosphere worlds, worlds of varying temperatures, pressures and toxins to visit and The Migrant Fleet, a place that in Ascension was clearly illustrated that contamination was a major concern when the book's protagonists visited yet Jack or Samara can go in with exposed skin and just a breathing mask.

It quite frankly turned the whole thing into a farce, and it wasn't even for a gameplay reason. The Thermal Clips annoyed me so much because of the various logic errors, but at least they had a gameplay reason behind them. There was no reason related to gameplay at all with regards to the silly, impractical garb much of the crew were in in ME2. And when I'm playing something and getting into a universe to lose myself in it and when immersion is so key to that, it's pathetic, annoying and very much a major factor to me to see the entire universe being made a complete farce for the sake of aethetics that for the most part seem to only have juvenile reasonings behind them (i.e. to simply sexify and make the series more "teh badassorz!"). It just pulls me out of the game, makes it impossible to take the Mass Effect setting seriously any more and ruins my enjoyment entirely. I was often limited to using the likes of Garrus, Tali and/or Legion simply because using everybody else just annoyed me and made me want to quit the game and stop playing.

To be honest, I just expected better of BioWare from the start. After ME1 I didn't expect them to make such an aethetic choice that is, IMO, juvenile and thoughtless. I didn't expect them to craft such a wonderful, intricate and believable universe one moment, only to throw it down the toilet with such a poor design choice that appears to have no practical thought behind it, doesn't improve gameplay or even impact it at all and only seems to have come about to shift the direction of Mass Effect to a more bombastic, sexified, badass, etc. form that tries to hard to adhere to the "rule of cool" and puts style ahead of substance. And quite frankly your response in the earlier thread just seemed to confirm my fears about BioWare and the Mass Effect team no longer caring about the integrity, consistency and logic of their creation if they can just aim it to appeal to the masses of violence-loving, horny teenagers out there.

The thing is, that is exactly how decisions like the impractical outfits with breathing masks in ME2 and responses like yours put across to me. You and others may be sick of the fact that lately I seem so down on your company, your games, your direction and even the team(s) themselves, but it's coming from the fact that so many of the things you guys do and say lately is giving me this impression. If you don't want me to keep saying that I feel you're betraying me as an old fan, that the direction I feel you're taking Mass Effect in is bad and that you're trying too hard at appealing more to the mainstream and newcomers with pandering and bad design decisions than you are the fans who came in on the ground floor, etc., then stop constantly making comments, decisions and products that make me feel this way. Stop acting like you feel style is more important than substance and stop acting like you're pandering to the mainstream and I'll stop accusing you of it.

To bring it back on-topic, the fact is, you can say that there are practical reasons for the choices all you like, but how am I supposed to really believe that and take that on good faith with nothing to back it up? Everything points to it being a silly aethetic choice. That's all it was in ME2. Despite complaints about it from the fans, it was still an issue when LotSB came out with Liara. It was still an issue after the Miranda armour came based on fan feedback and she still had a silly breathing mask, illustrating that the point was largely missed as to why a proper outfit for her was even called for. And, more recently, you just told me to "deal with it" and that breather masks are coming back for no practical, tangible or logical reason beyond "we like them." Breather masks as an acceptable solution to combat the dangers of space should not only be an option for ME3, they should never have been an issue in the first place with ME2.

So, how am I as a fan dangerously close to being a former fan, supposed to believe that BioWare and the ME team even understand when there's really been no clear evidence that they do?

*CLAP, CLAP, CLAP*

Bravo!

[Terror_K]

Arcian wrote...

Kinetic barriers created by ME can maintain and contain artificial, local atmospheres, which is why it was possible to move about the Derelict Reaper, why you don't need suits to walk the streets of Mars, or I don't know, why it's possible to live on the f***ing Citadel.

Kinetic barriers are never enough, and it seriously boggles my mind that after all this time people talk like they do. They're only designed to stop fast-moving, incoming projectiles (i.e. weapons fire). It's outright stated that they do not protect against temperature, pressure, gravity, toxins, radiation, etc. which the dangers of space all have and consist of. The barrier used to keep the atmosphere in on The Citadel are different from the kinetic barriers used on a person (not least of which includes a much larger power source). Let's also not forget that kinetic barriers are themselves part of armour in the first place and that they require a power source... something largely absent in the cases of most of the ME2 crew, meaning they shouldn't have even had kinetic shielding, let alone medigel dispensers or an oxygen supply for those masks that mysteriously allow them to breathe while not attached to anything.

[Candidate 88766]

Shepard the Leper wrote...

Candidate 88766 wrote...

There have been very few occasions where you have been in a vacuum in ME. The only examples I can think of are outside the Citadel Tower and at the end of Arrival - otherwise, neither Shepard or any squadmembers have been in a vacuum.

The Collector Ship is in a vacuum; Shep escapes the Derelict Reaper in a vacuum; Shepard enters the Collector base in a vacuum; Shepard fights on top of the Shadow Broker vessel in a vacuum - in those examples the game doesn't show or hint towards anything else. And in that case the tiniest of holes in any suit would kill the person in it.

Masks are ok in other environments, but they won't work in space. And since the excursions into space (vacuum) are slim, I would have expected Bioware to at least add full helmets for everyone during those scenes.

I'll give you the end of the Derelict Reaper, but I was under the impression the Normandy was inside the Base when they exited it - the game shows it surrounded by rock-like formations. And the Shadow Broker's ship is very much in an atmosphere, hence the storm.

[Candidate 88766]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Candidate 88766 wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...
 A toxic atmospehre is NOT vacuum?
Stop trolling me.

Are you actually being serious? 

A vacuum is the absence of atmosphere. So he is right, a toxic atmosphere is not a vacuum.

Speed typo.

A toxic atmosphere stil lrequires a sealed suit. Not exposed skin.

Fair enough.

Surely it depends on the type of toxin though? I fully agree that a sealed suit would be more practical and make more sense, but some toxins have to be inhaled to be dangerous and a mask might be all that is necessary.

[Luigitornado]

Meh. The people who want to have helmets should be given that option to atleast toggle them on during sequences they believe need them.

[Candidate 88766]

In theory, could a mass effect field hold an atmosphere?

I know kinetic barriers can't, but an atmosphere is made up of mass and so in theory could be held in place by mass effect fields. this would explain why the crew can breath on the Derelict Reaper, and why the atmosphere on the Citadel extends only a short way above the wards - if it was just centrifugal force then the atmosphere would 'spill' over the sides of the ward arms, so something must be holding it.

I should add that I know a suit is too weak to keep an atmosphere around itself, I'm just suggesting why it is unlikely that either the Derelict Reaper or the Collector Base were devoid of atmosphere.

Modifié par Candidate 88766, 29 décembre 2011 - 02:40 .

[Someone With Mass]

didymos1120 wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

didymos1120 wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...


No. Jumping from ship to ship in NOT vaucum?

Not if it's in an atmosphere, no.

It's not.

You're supposed to click the link.  The derelict is clearly within the atmosphere. The really, really hot atmosphere, granted, but the atmosphere nonetheless.

I like to think that they were able to establish an air-friendly environment on their own too.

[Iakus]

In both cases thats Reaper tech, though, and involving structures far larger than a humanoid being.

[Captain_Obvious_au]

Guys, cut the swearing. It's not needed, it's not wanted, it's not productive. If that's all you're going to contribute to my thread, leave.

[MELTOR13]

Arcian wrote...

MELTOR13 wrote...

The fact that Chris even felt the need to apologize is depressing. It makes absolutely no sense that forumgoers can act like complete ****s all the time, to anyone and everyone, with no repercussions, but a mod or dev makes one blunt statement to a forumite and then all the sudden there's some upheaval about how we're mistreated and BioWare doesn't like their fans.

Whatever, BSN. There's a reason BioWare "fans" have the reputation they have.

It's because those mods are supposed to be better than us. For the record, I thought Chris' DWI comment was perfectly justified and that the apology was unnecessary. Terror_K is a well known RPG purist whiner on the BSN who trots around on his high horse and thinks that he and his preferences take precedence over the rest of us.

I understand the reasoning..."BioWare should take the high road because they're supposed to be professionals". I just find it disturbing that the community feels no need to take those same standards upon themselves. It's OK for ME to be a ****, because I don't have to be nice. But I'll demand it from others. Typical, I guess. I can understand disliking something, hating, even...but normal, adjusted, sane people can usually form their arguments into a civil statements, not some rage-filled whinefest that looks like it was written by 2 yr.-old having a temper tantrum. 

Again....there's a reason BioWare fans and the BSN have the reputations they have. 

[Estelindis]

Collapsible helmets were a cool idea, but would've been rather problematic for FemShep; there would have been a lot of clipping with her hair.  

Anyway, i would've preferred if all squadmates had the option to wear full armour and helmet in combat, but it doesn't look like we'll be getting that.  Such is life.  I'll just see how I feel about it when the game comes out and leave Liara on the ship if it's too immersion-breaking to see her in that (admittedly armoured) labcoat with a breathing mask.  On the whole, I think I'd get more enjoyment from the option of having her with me that from the little bit of immersion-preservation, but I'll wait and see.  Kaidan will be in my party as often as possible anyway, so she only ever has a certain chance of being a party member regardless.  ;-)

Chris Priestly wrote...

I should start off by saying to Terror K that I am sorry for belittling his concern (in the last thread). While I personally find people who get upset over seemly minor details to be overreacting, that doesn't give me the right to make light of his concern.  <snip>  

Chris, I appreciate you writing this more conciliatory post.  From this, it's clear that you feel it's important not to belittle fans even if/when you make judgment calls with which we disagree.  Thank you.

MELTOR13 wrote...

Terror_K is a well known RPG purist whiner on the BSN who trots around on his high horse and thinks that he and his preferences take precedence over the rest of us.

Well, clearly that's how you see Terror, but when I look at this community member I see the writer of an outstanding piece of original fiction set in the Mass Effect universe, who I feel has enhanced this shared world considerably and who has, in my opinion, every reason to be personally invested in the internal consistency of said world.

Modifié par Estelindis, 29 décembre 2011 - 02:49 .

[Candidate 88766]

The best solution would be transparent helmets.

The facial animations would still be visible - which I think was one the biggest complaints with things like the appearance packs - and they can be sealed.

I'm personally not that fussed. Unless they're in a vacuum I don't mind them wearing just masks - I didn't mind in Star Wars and I don't really mind now, as in the grand scheme of things it is so incredibly minor to me - but I appreciate that some people do mind, which is why I believe transparent helmets would be the way to go.

I'm sure some people would complain that a transparent helmet wouldn't provide much protection in combat, but this isn't a military simulator. This isn't CoD or Battlefield. If liberties must be taken for the sake of art direction then frankly I can live with that.

[Garrus Mmkay]

Terror_K wrote...

Chris Priestly wrote...

I should start off by saying to Terror K that I am sorry for belittling his concern (in the last thread). While I personally find people who get upset over seemly minor details to be overreacting, that doesn't give me the right to make light of his concern. He is concerned because, for him at least, it is an immersion breaker and anything that breaks our players immersion in the games is taken seriously by the dev team. I only said it in that manner as I know Terror has been here a long time and I thought, from prior conversations, we had a certain raport between us. Obviouly I misjudged the situation and my phrasing was uncalled for.

That being said, the dev team looks at issues like this and makes judgements. They listen to fans and, when possible, work to accomodate as many fans as possible. It is listening to them like this that has created things like helmet toggles to try to accomodate a wide variety of interests. There are reasons to have breathing masks in game. And I don't mean "the team was too lazy to make helmets" or whatever, but some fine story based reasons (like one area where "someone" has vented the atmosphere out of a room you are passing through). The team has spent a lot of time making facial animations and dialogs that we want you to see faces for. Now, as I mentioned, toggles, situations where masks are appropriate, etc so sometimes you will see a breathing mask. Hopefully people will look at it and eitehr accept it, or at worst begrudgingly understand why they were used.

Here's the thing, Chris... you can call it "trivial" or "seemingly minor" or whatever, but things like this are a personal matter. To me I got into Mass Effect originally because it was an experience more than a game and because it was a well thought out, tight, sci-fi universe I could really sink my teeth into. Mass Effect wasn't strictly hard science, but it was at least consistent and believable in its own right. It set rules and adhered to them for the most part.

To me, a lot of the changes such as breathing masks and exposed outfits with no real protection turned the entire thing into a farce just for the sake of being more akin to a Michael Bay action movie than classic sci-fi, or at least that's how it came across. As I said in the original topic, you have one of the most major plot points as the protagonist being spaced and killed and try to make a big deal of it, even on an emotional level sometimes, but the rest of the game constantly trivialises it all by having characters wearing stupid outfits with only a breathing mask to protect them from the dangers of space... the very factors that got Shepard killed in the first place. You have chlorine gas atmosphere worlds, worlds of varying temperatures, pressures and toxins to visit and The Migrant Fleet, a place that in Ascension was clearly illustrated that contamination was a major concern when the book's protagonists visited yet Jack or Samara can go in with exposed skin and just a breathing mask.

It quite frankly turned the whole thing into a farce, and it wasn't even for a gameplay reason. The Thermal Clips annoyed me so much because of the various logic errors, but at least they had a gameplay reason behind them. There was no reason related to gameplay at all with regards to the silly, impractical garb much of the crew were in in ME2. And when I'm playing something and getting into a universe to lose myself in it and when immersion is so key to that, it's pathetic, annoying and very much a major factor to me to see the entire universe being made a complete farce for the sake of aethetics that for the most part seem to only have juvenile reasonings behind them (i.e. to simply sexify and make the series more "teh badassorz!"). It just pulls me out of the game, makes it impossible to take the Mass Effect setting seriously any more and ruins my enjoyment entirely. I was often limited to using the likes of Garrus, Tali and/or Legion simply because using everybody else just annoyed me and made me want to quit the game and stop playing.

To be honest, I just expected better of BioWare from the start. After ME1 I didn't expect them to make such an aethetic choice that is, IMO, juvenile and thoughtless. I didn't expect them to craft such a wonderful, intricate and believable universe one moment, only to throw it down the toilet with such a poor design choice that appears to have no practical thought behind it, doesn't improve gameplay or even impact it at all and only seems to have come about to shift the direction of Mass Effect to a more bombastic, sexified, badass, etc. form that tries to hard to adhere to the "rule of cool" and puts style ahead of substance. And quite frankly your response in the earlier thread just seemed to confirm my fears about BioWare and the Mass Effect team no longer caring about the integrity, consistency and logic of their creation if they can just aim it to appeal to the masses of violence-loving, horny teenagers out there.

The thing is, that is exactly how decisions like the impractical outfits with breathing masks in ME2 and responses like yours put across to me. You and others may be sick of the fact that lately I seem so down on your company, your games, your direction and even the team(s) themselves, but it's coming from the fact that so many of the things you guys do and say lately is giving me this impression. If you don't want me to keep saying that I feel you're betraying me as an old fan, that the direction I feel you're taking Mass Effect in is bad and that you're trying too hard at appealing more to the mainstream and newcomers with pandering and bad design decisions than you are the fans who came in on the ground floor, etc., then stop constantly making comments, decisions and products that make me feel this way. Stop acting like you feel style is more important than substance and stop acting like you're pandering to the mainstream and I'll stop accusing you of it.

To bring it back on-topic, the fact is, you can say that there are practical reasons for the choices all you like, but how am I supposed to really believe that and take that on good faith with nothing to back it up? Everything points to it being a silly aethetic choice. That's all it was in ME2. Despite complaints about it from the fans, it was still an issue when LotSB came out with Liara. It was still an issue after the Miranda armour came based on fan feedback and she still had a silly breathing mask, illustrating that the point was largely missed as to why a proper outfit for her was even called for. And, more recently, you just told me to "deal with it" and that breather masks are coming back for no practical, tangible or logical reason beyond "we like them." Breather masks as an acceptable solution to combat the dangers of space should not only be an option for ME3, they should never have been an issue in the first place with ME2.

So, how am I as a fan dangerously close to being a former fan, supposed to believe that BioWare and the ME team even understand when there's really been no clear evidence that they do?

Overreaction :innocent:

[Candidate 88766]

MELTOR13 wrote...

Again....there's a reason BioWare fans and the BSN have the reputations they have. 

We've got nothing on the Bungie or Bethesda communities. Things could be so much worse.