Aller au contenu

Photo

Breathing masks


  • Ce sujet est fermé Ce sujet est fermé
905 réponses à ce sujet

#176
Terror_K

Terror_K
  • Members
  • 4 362 messages
It's not just the breathing masks. They're merely a symptom of another issue and not directly the problem at all. Breathing masks are merely a wound on Mass Effect, but they're not the cause of the damage.

And it doesn't matter how good the writing, charaterisation, romances or any other such factors are if the setting you're using doesn't even hold water in the first place. You can have a masterpiece from a technical standpoint, but if it's filled with massive logic holes that crack at the very fabric of the heart of the story itself, it's all for nought.

Simply put: it doesn't matter how well made the rest of the table is if the legs can't hold it up.

Modifié par Terror_K, 29 décembre 2011 - 03:30 .


#177
Garrus Mmkay

Garrus Mmkay
  • Members
  • 14 messages
Stop whining, it's pathetic.

#178
Someone With Mass

Someone With Mass
  • Members
  • 38 560 messages
Well, if there's no immediate danger (like vacuum, toxins or maybe radiation) I don't see the problem with breather masks.

Sure, I think they look stupid and would rather have them all wear helmets instead, but if there's no danger in wearing them, then I think they should get a pass.

#179
Mclouvins

Mclouvins
  • Members
  • 544 messages

Terror_K wrote...

It's not just the breathing masks. They're merely a symptom of another issue and not directly the problem at all. Breathing masks are merely a wound on Mass Effect, but they're not the cause of the damage.

And it doesn't matter how good the writing, charaterisation, romances or any other such factors are if the setting you're using doesn't even hold water in the first place. You can have a masterpiece from a technical standpoint, but if it's filled with massive logic holes that crack at the very fabric of the heart of the story itself, it's all for nought.

Simply put: it doesn't matter how well made the rest of the table is if the legs can't hold it up.


Three words... mass effect fields, and those were in ME1.

#180
nitefyre410

nitefyre410
  • Members
  • 8 944 messages

AgitatedLemon wrote...

nitefyre410 wrote...
*snip*





I'm not sure you and I were playing the same game. ME2 had fantastic character development, a decent plot, and decent romances, depending on character choice.

 

Well I'm being a little harsh on the plot considering it  is a  middle game and I don't know the fallout in 3 yet- so yeah maybe I  went over board bit...I can admit that.  

But the Romances of pick this option till you jump in the sack are just at the end of the day where just meh.
Comapred to say the romance in AC Revelation between Ezio and Sofia  where through the whole game is very subtle but you see the admiration with it out being thrown in your face  with big neon letters "HEY ROMANCE "  like  how I felt ME 2 did to me.

The Loyality missions had some good things about them but I got more enjoyment and impact  from those optional missions than from the main story...


Mass Effect is great in my eyes but once hit the great range... the standard gets even higher.

Just to be clearer... Sorry if I made seem liked  I hated ME  2 really   I didn't

#181
nitefyre410

nitefyre410
  • Members
  • 8 944 messages

Terror_K wrote...

It's not just the breathing masks. They're merely a symptom of another issue and not directly the problem at all. Breathing masks are merely a wound on Mass Effect, but they're not the cause of the damage.

And it doesn't matter how good the writing, charaterisation, romances or any other such factors are if the setting you're using doesn't even hold water in the first place. You can have a masterpiece from a technical standpoint, but if it's filled with massive logic holes that crack at the very fabric of the heart of the story itself, it's all for nought.

Simply put: it doesn't matter how well made the rest of the table is if the legs can't hold it up.

 


true but the characters and the writing are the legs on which the table that the story is are standing on. The breathing mask are just a table cloth.


sorry for the typos its kinda chilly in my house and my fingers  are kinda cold.

Modifié par nitefyre410, 29 décembre 2011 - 03:49 .


#182
bennyjammin79

bennyjammin79
  • Members
  • 882 messages
Le yawn.

#183
A Crusty Knight Of Colour

A Crusty Knight Of Colour
  • Members
  • 7 466 messages
I did a double take and read this thread over twice.

Breathing masks? Really?

Then I thought about it for a second and realized this topic was about something else: intentional Gameplay/Story segregation.

That elements presented as part of the story and/or lore are ignored or contradicted by what the player is shown through the gameplay.

It's somewhat important for anyone who places any stock in Suspension of Disbelief.

The breathing masks are minor, are small, but ultimately, they are representative of a much bigger (and valid) problem.

Still... breathing masks? Mang.... People wonder why BSN is a messed up place? It's because BSN can spend dozens of pages discussing the intracacies of breathing masks and their effect in a game without a shred of insincerity or self awareness...

Modifié par mrcrusty, 29 décembre 2011 - 03:46 .


#184
Andorfiend

Andorfiend
  • Members
  • 648 messages

Donnstar wrote...

I sense this breathing mask topic will be persisting for the next week.


Discussing pointless topics to death. Just another day at BSN.


The game is in final polish, or thereabouts given the release schedule. Therefore anything discussed here will not effect the game. Therefore any discussion here must be pointless.

So what's your point?

#185
Ryzaki

Ryzaki
  • Members
  • 34 418 messages

Chris Priestly wrote...

I should start off by saying to Terror K that I am sorry for belittling his concern (in the last thread). While I personally find people who get upset over seemly minor details to be overreacting, that doesn't give me the right to make light of his concern. He is concerned because, for him at least, it is an immersion breaker and anything that breaks our players immersion in the games is taken seriously by the dev team. I only said it in that manner as I know Terror has been here a long time and I thought, from prior conversations, we had a certain raport between us. Obviouly I misjudged the situation and my phrasing was uncalled for.

That being said, the dev team looks at issues like this and makes judgements. They listen to fans and, when possible, work to accomodate as many fans as possible. It is listening to them like this that has created things like helmet toggles to try to accomodate a wide variety of interests. There are reasons to have breathing masks in game. And I don't mean "the team was too lazy to make helmets" or whatever, but some fine story based reasons (like one area where "someone" has vented the atmosphere out of a room you are passing through). The team has spent a lot of time making facial animations and dialogs that we want you to see faces for. Now, as I mentioned, toggles, situations where masks are appropriate, etc so sometimes you will see a breathing mask. Hopefully people will look at it and eitehr accept it, or at worst begrudgingly understand why they were used.



:devil:



So is there any chance Shep can wear a breather mask? Instead of taking off his/her visior for a helmet and covering up the face I spent hours tweaking till I liked it? I want to see those expressions on my Shep's face too.

Modifié par Ryzaki, 29 décembre 2011 - 03:51 .


#186
Stalker

Stalker
  • Members
  • 2 784 messages

Someone With Mass wrote...

Well, if there's no immediate danger (like vacuum, toxins or maybe radiation) I don't see the problem with breather masks.

Sure, I think they look stupid and would rather have them all wear helmets instead, but if there's no danger in wearing them, then I think they should get a pass.

This.

I think it's kind of an overreaction by the community. All the parts where they wore breath-masks (that I can recall) are on the dead collector's ship, legions recruitment, shadow broker's ship. And all of them had a valid reason for the breathmasks to be enough.
In ME1 you were exploring foreign planets of unknown danger, in ME2 you are never in a vacuum or some other kind of danger that the skin couldn't protect.

Again, as far as I remember...

Modifié par Mr Massakka, 29 décembre 2011 - 03:47 .


#187
realguile

realguile
  • Members
  • 574 messages

MELTOR13 wrote...

The fact that Chris even felt the need to apologize is depressing. It makes absolutely no sense that forumgoers can act like complete ****s all the time, to anyone and everyone, with no repercussions, but a mod or dev makes one blunt statement to a forumite and then all the sudden there's some upheaval about how we're mistreated and BioWare doesn't like their fans.

Whatever, BSN. There's a reason BioWare "fans" have the reputation they have.

I wish i could wire you some money for keeping it real. some of this stuff from "real sci-fi fans/mass effect fans" is flat out pathetic. 

#188
Ohei

Ohei
  • Members
  • 845 messages
At first I was like, ''Oh, masks are back. I truthfully do not give a flying elcor about this.''

But then I was like, ''Show-off improved facial animations? F* YEAH MASKS FOREVER.''

True story.

#189
Guest_Aotearas_*

Guest_Aotearas_*
  • Guests
Wow, ... I mean ... wow.

I thought the BSN was already bad with its nitpicking, but what I am seeing here is simply taking the top of it.
We get a completely serious point and completely serious arguments and the majority are simply proclaiming it an "overreaction" or "pathetic whining" ...

... for real?

To all these people ... please, for the love of all things decent, just stop. The irony of you people running around calling others the reason why BSN is crazy whilst acting like indolescent pricks is only funny for soo long. And now it's getting annoying. Just stop it and for once have a decent discussion without idiots coming in throwing insults and stupidity around, please!

#190
sponge56

sponge56
  • Members
  • 481 messages

Terror_K wrote...


Here's the thing, Chris... you can call it "trivial" or "seemingly minor" or whatever, but things like this are a personal matter. To me I got into Mass Effect originally because it was an experience more than a game and because it was a well thought out, tight, sci-fi universe I could really sink my teeth into. Mass Effect wasn't strictly hard science, but it was at least consistent and believable in its own right. It set rules and adhered to them for the most part.

To me, a lot of the changes such as breathing masks and exposed outfits with no real protection turned the entire thing into a farce just for the sake of being more akin to a Michael Bay action movie than classic sci-fi, or at least that's how it came across. As I said in the original topic, you have one of the most major plot points as the protagonist being spaced and killed and try to make a big deal of it, even on an emotional level sometimes, but the rest of the game constantly trivialises it all by having characters wearing stupid outfits with only a breathing mask to protect them from the dangers of space... the very factors that got Shepard killed in the first place. You have chlorine gas atmosphere worlds, worlds of varying temperatures, pressures and toxins to visit and The Migrant Fleet, a place that in Ascension was clearly illustrated that contamination was a major concern when the book's protagonists visited yet Jack or Samara can go in with exposed skin and just a breathing mask.

It quite frankly turned the whole thing into a farce, and it wasn't even for a gameplay reason. The Thermal Clips annoyed me so much because of the various logic errors, but at least they had a gameplay reason behind them. There was no reason related to gameplay at all with regards to the silly, impractical garb much of the crew were in in ME2. And when I'm playing something and getting into a universe to lose myself in it and when immersion is so key to that, it's pathetic, annoying and very much a major factor to me to see the entire universe being made a complete farce for the sake of aethetics that for the most part seem to only have juvenile reasonings behind them (i.e. to simply sexify and make the series more "teh badassorz!"). It just pulls me out of the game, makes it impossible to take the Mass Effect setting seriously any more and ruins my enjoyment entirely. I was often limited to using the likes of Garrus, Tali and/or Legion simply because using everybody else just annoyed me and made me want to quit the game and stop playing.

To be honest, I just expected better of BioWare from the start. After ME1 I didn't expect them to make such an aethetic choice that is, IMO, juvenile and thoughtless. I didn't expect them to craft such a wonderful, intricate and believable universe one moment, only to throw it down the toilet with such a poor design choice that appears to have no practical thought behind it, doesn't improve gameplay or even impact it at all and only seems to have come about to shift the direction of Mass Effect to a more bombastic, sexified, badass, etc. form that tries to hard to adhere to the "rule of cool" and puts style ahead of substance. And quite frankly your response in the earlier thread just seemed to confirm my fears about BioWare and the Mass Effect team no longer caring about the integrity, consistency and logic of their creation if they can just aim it to appeal to the masses of violence-loving, horny teenagers out there.

The thing is, that is exactly how decisions like the impractical outfits with breathing masks in ME2 and responses like yours put across to me. You and others may be sick of the fact that lately I seem so down on your company, your games, your direction and even the team(s) themselves, but it's coming from the fact that so many of the things you guys do and say lately is giving me this impression. If you don't want me to keep saying that I feel you're betraying me as an old fan, that the direction I feel you're taking Mass Effect in is bad and that you're trying too hard at appealing more to the mainstream and newcomers with pandering and bad design decisions than you are the fans who came in on the ground floor, etc., then stop constantly making comments, decisions and products that make me feel this way. Stop acting like you feel style is more important than substance and stop acting like you're pandering to the mainstream and I'll stop accusing you of it.

To bring it back on-topic, the fact is, you can say that there are practical reasons for the choices all you like, but how am I supposed to really believe that and take that on good faith with nothing to back it up? Everything points to it being a silly aethetic choice. That's all it was in ME2. Despite complaints about it from the fans, it was still an issue when LotSB came out with Liara. It was still an issue after the Miranda armour came based on fan feedback and she still had a silly breathing mask, illustrating that the point was largely missed as to why a proper outfit for her was even called for. And, more recently, you just told me to "deal with it" and that breather masks are coming back for no practical, tangible or logical reason beyond "we like them." Breather masks as an acceptable solution to combat the dangers of space should not only be an option for ME3, they should never have been an issue in the first place with ME2.

So, how am I as a fan dangerously close to being a former fan, supposed to believe that BioWare and the ME team even understand when there's really been no clear evidence that they do?


Not to sound mean but my God, you ever think you are unhealthly involved with this game?  Stuff like the Ashley armour thing I can sort of understand, going against her previous character and the way women are portrayed in games etc. But this is frankly ridiculous Image IPB. Priestly has told you the reason why their doing it, you may not like it but at least they have a reason.  It seems that its always the core mental fans who label themselves 'the fanbase' when it is actually a tiny proportion of people who actually give two ****s.  Most people who play this are doing so because they love the characters, like the story, and enjoy playing it.  Ive got loads of mates who love playing the game and whose gripes about it having nothing to do with what some of the BSN moans about. If you are seriously considering stopping playing mass effect because of this then, in my opinion, good ridance.

#191
GMagnum

GMagnum
  • Members
  • 1 670 messages
aye any1 else evr woke up n it hella cold n da room n dey gotta tke a ****** but dey dun wanna cuz wen u get up u gon be hella cold but u got 2 i hate dat tbh

#192
sponge56

sponge56
  • Members
  • 481 messages

Neofelis Nebulosa wrote...

Wow, ... I mean ... wow.

I thought the BSN was already bad with its nitpicking, but what I am seeing here is simply taking the top of it.
We get a completely serious point and completely serious arguments and the majority are simply proclaiming it an "overreaction" or "pathetic whining" ...

... for real?

To all these people ... please, for the love of all things decent, just stop. The irony of you people running around calling others the reason why BSN is crazy whilst acting like indolescent pricks is only funny for soo long. And now it's getting annoying. Just stop it and for once have a decent discussion without idiots coming in throwing insults and stupidity around, please!


Insanity must be pointed out wherever it is found Image IPB

#193
Andorfiend

Andorfiend
  • Members
  • 648 messages

realguile wrote...

some of this stuff from "real sci-fi fans/mass effect fans" is flat out pathetic. 


Why exactly is being unable to completely disconnect our brains "pathetic?"

If you were fighting Saren and suddenly Peter Pan flew out of freaking nowhere on a rocket powered Armadillo and blew up Soverign with Stormbringer and the One Ring, you woud be kind of pissed, right? This is Mass Effect, not Kingdom Hearts.

Some of us have a slightly lower threshold for having our Suspension of Disbelief revoked. It comes from knowing things, and thinking about them.

If that's not your thing, cool. But don't presume to sneer at others for being more sensative to stupid.

I'm not allergic to pollen, but I don't give people crap for sneezing during allergy season. For people with a clue what hard vacuum can do to a human body, a breath mask is like brain pollen.

There is a fair amount of it in ME 1 & 2. And we don't like sneezing, so we come here and speak, hoping BW will listen and tone down the stupid. We still play, just like allergy sufferers still go outside. If something is fun enough, it's worth the occasional brain sneeze. But since BioWare, unlike mother nature, could actually listen and do something about these complaints we give it a try.

Of course what they actually did after the complaints in ME 1 was remove the inventory and give us ammo powers, and remove the Mako and give us the Hammer head. So maybe you're right and we should learn to shut up before they start having people turn to the Dark Side of the Mass Effect with glowing eyes and red lightsabers. Image IPB

#194
Guest_Cthulhu42_*

Guest_Cthulhu42_*
  • Guests

GMagnum wrote...

aye any1 else evr woke up n it hella cold n da room n dey gotta tke a ****** but dey dun wanna cuz wen u get up u gon be hella cold but u got 2 i hate dat tbh

Me too, Gmag. Me too.

#195
wicked117

wicked117
  • Members
  • 275 messages
It's a game. Something you are suppose to have fun with, an amusing way to pass your time. That is basically the definition of the word "game" correct? As I read through this I can't help but think that people who are having issues with something so simple to the point it that it is deal breaker for them just might take life a little to seriously.

#196
Ravensword

Ravensword
  • Members
  • 6 185 messages

wicked117 wrote...

It's a game. Something you are suppose to have fun with, an amusing way to pass your time. That is basically the definition of the word "game" correct? As I read through this I can't help but think that people who are having issues with something so simple to the point it that it is deal breaker for them just might take life a little to seriously.


Mai immersion!

#197
nitefyre410

nitefyre410
  • Members
  • 8 944 messages

Ravensword wrote...

wicked117 wrote...

It's a game. Something you are suppose to have fun with, an amusing way to pass your time. That is basically the definition of the word "game" correct? As I read through this I can't help but think that people who are having issues with something so simple to the point it that it is deal breaker for them just might take life a little to seriously.


Mai immersion!




I reject your immersion and replace it with mai own...:P

#198
brainless78

brainless78
  • Members
  • 236 messages

wicked117 wrote...

It's a game. Something you are suppose to have fun with, an amusing way to pass your time. That is basically the definition of the word "game" correct? As I read through this I can't help but think that people who are having issues with something so simple to the point it that it is deal breaker for them just might take life a little to seriously.


Okay then, would you be able to watch the whole Lord of the Ring trilogy while having nyancat as a background sound? No? Man, you're taking this waaaay too seriously.

Seriously though, as stated before, some have a lower "suspension of disbelief" threshold than others. It's just a fact of life.

#199
felipejiraya

felipejiraya
  • Members
  • 2 397 messages
This thread is so surreal it makes me feel normal.

I think they should take out every helmet from the game and substitute it with breathing masks....just for the lulz.

Modifié par felipejiraya, 29 décembre 2011 - 04:14 .


#200
Ohei

Ohei
  • Members
  • 845 messages

brainless78 wrote...

wicked117 wrote...

It's a game. Something you are suppose to have fun with, an amusing way to pass your time. That is basically the definition of the word "game" correct? As I read through this I can't help but think that people who are having issues with something so simple to the point it that it is deal breaker for them just might take life a little to seriously.


Okay then, would you be able to watch the whole Lord of the Ring trilogy while having nyancat as a background sound? No? Man, you're taking this waaaay too seriously.

Seriously though, as stated before, some have a lower "suspension of disbelief" threshold than others. It's just a fact of life.


Are you really comparing breathing masks on Mass Effect to Lord of the Rings with Nyancat background music?

:lol: