378 réponses à ce sujet

[Saber Wolf]

AgitatedLemon wrote...

Yuqi wrote...

Miranda has got nothing on Ash.

Exactly. 

Miranda has everything Ash has, but better.

Suuure, she's perfectly normal, no genetic modifications at all.

Ashley is natural.

[AgitatedLemon]

Datas_12 wrote...

AgitatedLemon wrote...

Yuqi wrote...

Miranda has got nothing on Ash.

Exactly. 

Miranda has everything Ash has, but better.

Suuure, she's perfectly normal, no genetic modifications at all.

Ashley is natural.

Hence the "but better".

[CptData]

Datas_12 wrote...

AgitatedLemon wrote...

Yuqi wrote...

Miranda has got nothing on Ash.

Exactly. 

Miranda has everything Ash has, but better.

Suuure, she's perfectly normal, no genetic modifications at all.

Ashley is natural.

Indeed. Ashley and Miranda seem to be a similar type of woman. No wonder Miranda-fans also like Ashley and vice versa. However, their characters are quite different. Miranda doesn't really have a soft side: sure, she cares for her sister, but besides that, there's not much place for others in Miranda's world. Shepard can soften her up a bit, true, but without him - I doubt Miranda will ever find peace with herself, her past and her future.

Ashley on the other side has a soft side and hides it under thick layers of tomboyish behavior and toughness.
She works with and without Shepard.

[Homebound]

ashley kinda came first. so if anything, miranda was the new ashley....

actually that makes perfect sense.

[Grey34]

Hellbound555 wrote...

ashley kinda came first. so if anything, miranda was the new ashley....

actually that makes perfect sense.

 

oh you bum  i was going to say that 


anyway  anyone who post here a puppy  dies....oh wait awwwwwwwwww:unsure:

Modifié par Grey34, 29 décembre 2011 - 11:38 .

[AgitatedLemon]

Hellbound555 wrote...

ashley kinda came first. so if anything, miranda was the new ashley....

actually that makes perfect sense.

Ashley and Miranda aren't anything alike, apart from the "Soft side hidden beneath a tough exterior".

[CptData]

Hellbound555 wrote...

ashley kinda came first. so if anything, miranda was the new ashley....

actually that makes perfect sense.

Hmm, you're right with "Ashley came first". But Miranda was no "copy" of Ashley.
Now Ashley returns and she seems to share some features of Miranda. I do like those changes but also loved her old looks. Think if Miranda had Ashley's character I would really run into problems. It's not like that, Miranda is different and comes with issues driving me a tad away. Not too far away, Miranda is still a "blip on the radar", but enough to stay loyal.

AgitatedLemon wrote...

Hellbound555 wrote...

ashley kinda came first. so if anything, miranda was the new ashley....

actually that makes perfect sense.

Ashley and Miranda aren't anything alike, apart from the "Soft side hidden beneath a tough exterior".

Not really. Miranda's "soft side" is just her need for love and her sister. Besides that - I'm not sure if she has hobbies or a habit. Ashley has hobbies and several habits and I don't have problems to add even more details while writing fanfics with Ashley. Miranda is far more difficult.

Modifié par CptData, 29 décembre 2011 - 11:42 .

[AgitatedLemon]

CptData wrote...

Hellbound555 wrote...

ashley kinda came first. so if anything, miranda was the new ashley....

actually that makes perfect sense.

Hmm, you're right with "Ashley came first". But Miranda was no "copy" of Ashley.
Now Ashley returns and she seems to share some features of Miranda. I do like those changes but also loved her old looks. Think if Miranda had Ashley's character I would really run into problems. It's not like that, Miranda is different and comes with issues driving me a tad away. Not too far away, Miranda is still a "blip on the radar", but enough to stay loyal.

AgitatedLemon wrote...

Hellbound555 wrote...

ashley kinda came first. so if anything, miranda was the new ashley....

actually that makes perfect sense.

Ashley and Miranda aren't anything alike, apart from the "Soft side hidden beneath a tough exterior".

Not really. Miranda's "soft side" is just her need for love and her sister. Besides that - I'm not sure if she has hobbies or a habit. Ashley has hobbies and several habits and I don't have problems to add even more details while writing fanfics with Ashley. Miranda is far more difficult.

Miranda is into music, specifically, classical music. I know she mentions a specific piece being her favorite, but I can't remember what the hell it is.

[V-rex]

I dunno, personality wise Ashley and Miranda are very different characters and I like to think that aspect of Ashley is still intact (if the dialogue is the be believed), plus we have gotten a confirmation on armor for Ashley and it looks really good, like N7 quality equal to that of FemShep's.

While Miranda did ultimatley get armor herself, it was a DLC appearance pack. Whereas from the looks of things Ashley's armor will be available right from the get go, which is good because Ashley is at heart a soldier and that should be reflected on how she goes into battle. Fortunatley after much rage and backlash, the game seems to be aware of that fact.

I've accepted the fact that Ashley's current uniform is staying right where it is, it annoys me somewhat but I'm willing to accept a compromise. I think GodWood said it best on the thread about the armor screenshot when he said that honestly at this point any armor for a female character that actually looks like armor is a major victory.
It may be rather form fitting on Ashley's now ample anatomy but at least she now looks combat ready and effective, I can deal with Ashley's exceptionally hot body and long luxurious hair because while all that's present at long last I have reason to believe that the game is acutely aware that 'sexy' is not 'everything' Ash is or everything she has to be.
I don't have a problem with Ashley being sexy, I've never thought she wasn't sexy, just so long as there was more to her then that. Fortunatley there is.
And yeah the blue outfit is still rather winceworthy (especially how it looks from behind) but I can live with it. Partly because I will be making her wear the vastly superior CE outfit most of the time but also because no matter what external BS they give her, the Ashley I know is still there somewhere and that's enough for me.
Plus as a side note, my Shepard has no problem with Ashley wearing that when she visits his quarters...

That said, while I'm fine with sexy... I will be all manner of pissed off if they go the same exploitative path they went with Miranda with the constant T&A shots invading important dialogue scenes and killing immersion by essentially breaking the fourth wall to shout:
"Oi, check this out!"
That would be, well it wouldn't be too much for me, but it would damn well ****** me off. It pissed me off when they did it to Miranda and it would really ****** me off if they did it to Ash as well. That said, Ashley has armor and her characterization is still largely intact (if again the leaked dialogue is any indication) so I would, bitterly and grudgingly, be able to live with it.

All I'm saying is, to recap while the redesign still irks me. She has a suit of armor which means Bioware remember that there is more to the character of Ashley Williams then a sex object (not implying that Miranda is one, please do not percieve this statement as such) and that second her characterization seems pretty much intact. Is she the exact same Ashley Williams I knew in Mass Effect 1? No, but I can live with a few compromises as long as the core itself is still good.

I'm just kind of done with this whole debate, sexy Ash is here to stay but it's also not all bad news. Good enough for me.

[AgitatedLemon]

Miranda with the constant T&A shots invading important dialogue scenes

It was 1-2 scenes on the Normandy, not SEXSEXSEXSEXSEXSEXSEX. It's meant to be funny, not softcore porn.

I guess Samara is also a SEXSEXSEXSEXSEXSEX because her side boob CLEARLY SHOWS.

Modifié par AgitatedLemon, 29 décembre 2011 - 11:51 .

[CptData]

^ What V-rex said. Thank you, helped a lot.

Ash was sexy and is sexy. She was sexy when talking, when shooting, when getting into Shepard's bunk. Without unneccessary buttshots to show her "sexy" side. Lets hope BW keeps her that way: sexy by talking, shooting and doing, but not by cheap buttshots.

Miranda is sexy. And the "camera guy" shoved her ass into our faces whenever possible. Think BW tried too hard to make Miranda sexy ...

[Spoiledrotten]

Pretty much.

Luckily, she wears armor in combat, and her personality remains generally unchanged.

Is it just my imagination, or is Ash a lot... whiter than she was before?

Modifié par Spoiledrotten, 29 décembre 2011 - 11:53 .

[V-rex]

AgitatedLemon wrote...

Miranda with the constant T&A shots invading important dialogue scenes

It was 1-2 scenes on the Normandy, not SEXSEXSEXSEXSEXSEXSEX. It's meant to be funny, not softcore porn.

I guess Samara is also a SEXSEXSEXSEXSEXSEX because her side boob CLEARLY SHOWS.

Yeah well, I still don't approve. It was during a scene where she was talking about her sister's LIFE being in danger, this should be considered a serious moment of character development for Miranda. She's letting down the visage of cold proffessionalism and showing briefly a moment of fear and strength. Demonstrating that she's not some stereotype but a full and complete human being, worried for the safety of a loved one.
And then:
BAM!


Maybe if this was a scene where they were flirting or joking around I wouldn't have had a problem with it, but here? I mean imagine if this were a movie and Miranda was an actress, how would she react to that?
Miranda:
"Shepard please help me save my sister, I'm desperate enough to let my guard down and show a softer side because I have such love and devotion to her protection and... what the hell are you doing?"
Director: "Oh, well we just thought it would work really well to have this scene end with a full screen shot of your ass."
Miranda:
"Why the hell would you do that in a moment of seriousness?"
Director: "For teh lols."
Miranda: "Go f*ck yourself, I quit!"

That's my problem here, either they did it for sex appeal or they did it for lols but either way they made a complete mockery of what ought to have been a serious moment of character development. It's still bad and shameful either way. I also note that no MALE characters ever got singled out in this way.

I just think game developers should be expected to treat their female characters with just the slightest bit more dignity then that.

Modifié par V-rex, 29 décembre 2011 - 12:01 .

[AgitatedLemon]

Yeah well, I still don't approve. It was during a scene where she was talking about her sister's LIFE being in danger, this should be considered a serious moment of character development for Miranda. She's letting down the visage of cold proffessionalism and showing briefly a moment of fear and strength. Demonstrating that she's not some stereotype but a full and complete human being, worried for the safety of a loved one.

I actually fully agree. Miranda may be my favorite squadmate and romance, but the really stupid ass shot that takes place during a VERY SERIOUS conversation is just... well... Really stupid.

[CptData]

AgitatedLemon wrote...

Yeah well, I still don't approve. It was during a scene where she was talking about her sister's LIFE being in danger, this should be considered a serious moment of character development for Miranda. She's letting down the visage of cold proffessionalism and showing briefly a moment of fear and strength. Demonstrating that she's not some stereotype but a full and complete human being, worried for the safety of a loved one.

I actually fully agree. Miranda may be my favorite squadmate and romance, but the really stupid ass shot that takes place during a VERY SERIOUS conversation is just... well... Really stupid.

Actually, ME2 has a tendency to show Miranda's ass.

Is it me or does it degrade Miri to some kind of sex object? Why can't people admire a character without reducing her to boobs and ass?

[AgitatedLemon]

CptData wrote...

AgitatedLemon wrote...

Yeah well, I still don't approve. It was during a scene where she was talking about her sister's LIFE being in danger, this should be considered a serious moment of character development for Miranda. She's letting down the visage of cold proffessionalism and showing briefly a moment of fear and strength. Demonstrating that she's not some stereotype but a full and complete human being, worried for the safety of a loved one.

I actually fully agree. Miranda may be my favorite squadmate and romance, but the really stupid ass shot that takes place during a VERY SERIOUS conversation is just... well... Really stupid.

Actually, ME2 has a tendency to show Miranda's ass.

Is it me or does it degrade Miri to some kind of sex object? Why can't people admire a character without reducing her to boobs and ass?

I don't know, but I sure as hell hate it.

Literally every single time I see a Miranda hater (Not actual dislike of her character, but frothing, rabid hate), the first (And usually only) thing they bring up is "Durr buttshots!". It makes me want to internet punch them right in the face. 

I guess they forgot all about her character aspects. I guess shots made for lulz are significant reason to hate a character. It must be impossible to be sexy and still have a strong character, both of which Miranda handles just fine.

edit: I don't know about tendency. I only know of 2 shots, and I've played the entire game maybe 20 times (Or more, literally). 1 of those shots requires Shepard to take a certain background, so I won't count it. The other one of course being the talk about Oriana.

Modifié par AgitatedLemon, 29 décembre 2011 - 12:18 .

[Fidget6]

*popular character wears her hair different and changes clothes*

On a tv-show: Oh, she styled her hair differently and changed her clothes. This is what girls do, that's to be expected.

In video game land: OMFG, they're turning her into some sex object!!!! Sexism! Hair! Boobs! GAHHSDFSFWESPFJ!!11!!

[AgitatedLemon]

Fidget6 wrote...

*popular character wears her hair different and changes clothes*

On a tv-show: Oh, she styled her hair differently and changed her clothes. This is what girls do, that's to be expected.

In video game land: OMFG, they're turning her into some sex object!!!! Sexism! Hair! Boobs! GAHHSDFSFWESPFJ!!11!!

Isn't our world just FANTASTIC?

[Stalker]

Still doesn't look as good as Miranda, but that's just my opinion.

[GMagnum]

omg i fail 2 see da problm here tbh?????????

[Yuqi]

Ashly doesn't have the hideous sterotype-accent.I want to bang my head on a wall; everytime I hear Miranda say 'a bloody icon' at the start of me2. 

Modifié par Yuqi, 29 décembre 2011 - 01:05 .

[Ticktank]

GMagnum wrote...

omg i fail 2 see da problm here tbh?????????

Uh oh. The Hills Have Eyes guy is here.

[Welsh Inferno]

Ticktank wrote...

GMagnum wrote...

omg i fail 2 see da problm here tbh?????????

Uh oh. The Hills Have Eyes guy is here.

Hatin' on Gmag?

Heavy risk......

[GMagnum]

aye uh oh omg da hils hav rude dudez guy is here tbh

[AgitatedLemon]

Yuqi wrote...

Ashly doesn't have the hideous sterotype-accent.I want to bang my head on a wall; everytime I hear Miranda say 'a bloody icon' at the start of me2. 

How is it stereotypical?

Yvonne Strahovski is Australian > Miranda has an Australian accent.

I guess people from Great Britain don't have their British accents, or people from Ireland with their accents, or African people with Afrikaans sounding accents.