922 réponses à ce sujet

[jlb524]

Youknow wrote...
 Although, I do like the idea that a lot of people don't mention it, because the last thing you want to do is anger a blood mage... 

Oh, they're not really that bad 

Assassins are worse.

Youknow wrote...
That's because you don't wish to make sense of it. You simply charge forward yammering at everyone else, shooting down their opinions and acting like yours are the only ones with merit. You even bring in analogies that are incomparible to the situation at hand which further derails the discussion at hand. 

OP states:  Do you like the all bi thing?

Me:  Yes!

Others:  No!

Me:  Why?

Others:  because of character integrity/realism/stuff.

Me:  but other BW games lacked that in the romance department and it was okay...so what's wrong now?

Thread:  .... silence and/or name calling.

Modifié par jlb524, 01 janvier 2012 - 03:03 .

[Ryzaki]

Youknow wrote...
Resource friendly would be having be having no romances. I'm cool with that too. But I do like you because you're at least willing to admit that you are selfish. It's funny that you have a Persona 3 avatar though, because it does remind me of Persona 2 how the author pretty much intended Tatsuya to be gay canonically. 

And heck yeah, I agree with you about the bloodmages. I usually avoid being on just so I feel better. Although, I do like the idea that a lot of people don't mention it, because the last thing you want to do is anger a blood mage... 

Blargh. Tatsuya canon gay my foot. He wa asexual damnit. ASEXUAL!

But they mention everyone *else* who's a bloodmage!

Plus I *want* Merrill to call my BM out on his hypocrisy of going "BLOODMAGIC IS BAD!" *stabs self in stomach to cast spell*

jlb524 wrote...

People are selfish...I'm selfish even.

I
wouldn't be debating in this thread if not for selfish reasons (i.e., I
want the same amount of options for romance as others typically enjoy
because they play it straight).

If I weren't being selfish, I'd be perfectly fine getting the short end of the stick, so to speak.

Everyone here is being selfish. If you're not being selfish you wouldn't care one way or the other.
[smilie]../../../images/forum/emoticons/lol.png[/smilie]

And yes I really want my choice of specialization to be acknowledged.  Anders throwing in a dig to my rivalmancing warrior about learning templar talents would've been glorious. (of Fenris snarling about my mage being more like Danarius than he originally thought).

[jlb524]

Ryzaki wrote...
Plus I *want* Merrill to call my BM out on his hypocrisy of going "BLOODMAGIC IS BAD!" *stabs self in stomach to cast spell*

Hahaha

Ryzaki wrote... 

Everyone here is being selfish. If you're not being selfish you wouldn't care one way or the other.
[smilie]../../../images/forum/emoticons/lol.png[/smilie]

Indeed, indeed.

But if I were being pure selfish, I'd ask for three lesbian only romances and say 'screw everyone else'.  I'm sure you'd love that!

Modifié par jlb524, 01 janvier 2012 - 03:19 .

[Yuqi]

I'm on the fence with this issue, having all LI  bi is  a bit extreme. However having it like ME1 & ME2 is far worse.. Malesheps have no male LI choice at all, and  femshep's only have Liara. (Even then, technically Liara is not a women, so  you could say there are no F/F  Li at all)


So I think the awnser is to have an even balnce. Not the majority being hetro, not all Bi,  and not all gay. The question is, can that balance be reached without insulting one particular prefrence.

Modifié par Yuqi, 01 janvier 2012 - 03:24 .

[Youknow]

The thing is, I remember talking with you once, and I took the side of not particularly wanting everyone bisexual, and I said realism was a part of it, in edition to me believing that sexuality is a core of a person's character, and I remember you attempting to drag it to crazy things like attractiveness and the like... None of which matter and don't touch the tip of the iceberg. The fact that the games could be more realistic doesn't change the fact that bisexual people would still be in the minority. No matter how much you bring up or try to oppose this, it doesn't change this. And it's not as though people that say they don't want everyone to be bisexual are even against gay/lesbian/bi relationships necessarily. Which is why people are more likely to be frustrated from it.  

The "silence" part that you are getting would be the equivalent to a person throwing their hands up in the air and walking away from you in a frustrated rage. It's not that you've argued them into defeat, they just feel that continuing with you is pointless because you are so fixated upon your arguement that it comes across that you refuse to even understand there points. 

If the conversations went like this: 

Person A: I don't really want bisexual relationships for all. 
Person B: Why not? 
Person A: Because ____. 

That should be the end of the story. Unless they say something that's offensive, is the only reason that I'd feel it's okay to pull out the magnum so to speak. But you seem to get this way regardless. 

Not to mention that things like hypocrisy still don't change their point. Since you like analogies here is one, if I steal from the children down the street, and then preach that stealing is wrong, that doesn't weaken my point that stealing is wrong, even if I do steal from people. It makes me a jerk, but I'm not wrong in my words. 

[Youknow]

Ryzaki wrote...

Youknow wrote...
Resource friendly would be having be having no romances. I'm cool with that too. But I do like you because you're at least willing to admit that you are selfish. It's funny that you have a Persona 3 avatar though, because it does remind me of Persona 2 how the author pretty much intended Tatsuya to be gay canonically. 

And heck yeah, I agree with you about the bloodmages. I usually avoid being on just so I feel better. Although, I do like the idea that a lot of people don't mention it, because the last thing you want to do is anger a blood mage... 

Blargh. Tatsuya canon gay my foot. He wa asexual damnit. ASEXUAL!

But they mention everyone *else* who's a bloodmage!

Yeah, I like asexual Tats as well. 

That's true, it would be funny if they made it to where people only mentioned it if you were a benevolent blood mage, but everyone else was like "OMFG EVIL BLOODMAGE SHHHHHHHH!!!!" Like if you could hear them whispering about you... Except Templars. Those guys should rage at that. 

[Ryzaki]

jlb524 wrote...

Hahaha

I'm still baffled as to why it's completely ignored especially in a party of Anders and Fenris. If anyone got on Hawke's case about being a BM it'd be those two.

Indeed, indeed.

But if I were being pure selfish, I'd ask for three lesbian only romances and say 'screw everyone else'.  I'm sure you'd love that!

D: 

NO ME GUSTA! 

Now if there was three male LIs for both male players and female players. I'd probably have the content for female LIs go toward giving my characters fully animated Sephiorth hair.

[jlb524]

Youknow wrote...
The thing is, I remember talking with you once, and I took the side of not particularly wanting everyone bisexual, and I said realism was a part of it, in edition to me believing that sexuality is a core of a person's character, and I remember you attempting to drag it to crazy things like attractiveness and the like... None of which matter and don't touch the tip of the iceberg. The fact that the games could be more realistic doesn't change the fact that bisexual people would still be in the minority. No matter how much you bring up or try to oppose this, it doesn't change this. And it's not as though people that say they don't want everyone to be bisexual are even against gay/lesbian/bi relationships necessarily. Which is why people are more likely to be frustrated from it.  

Attractiveness...doesn't matter?

People who romance males are in the minority...so should we go back to the 'BG2' way of romances and give 1 male LI per 3 female LIs?  I'm not against male LIs or anything.

Youknow wrote... 

If the conversations went like this: 

Person A: I don't really want bisexual relationships for all. 
Person B: Why not? 
Person A: Because ____. 

Not if ____ isn't good.

Person A: I hate your friend.
Person B: Why? 
Person A: Because she's blonde!

... 

Ryzaki wrote...
Now if there was three male LIs for both male players and female players. [smilie]http://social.bioware.com/images/forum/emoticons/wizard.png[/smilie] I'd probably have the content for female LIs go toward giving my characters fully animated Sephiorth hair. 

  

Noooooooooo!

Modifié par jlb524, 01 janvier 2012 - 03:29 .

[Ryzaki]

Youknow wrote...
Yeah, I like asexual Tats as well. 

That's true, it would be funny if they made it to where people only mentioned it if you were a benevolent blood mage, but everyone else was like "OMFG EVIL BLOODMAGE SHHHHHHHH!!!!" Like if you could hear them whispering about you... Except Templars. Those guys should rage at that. 

Benevolent? 

My bloodmage? 



If you consider being an aggressive Hawke that didn't miss the chance to stab someone in the gut benevolent and gave all the mages over to the templars while laughing benevolent sure! [frankly I have no idea why Grace didn't snitch.]

...heck mage Hawke is already a wallbanger. If realism is needed anywhere that's where it was needed.

Hawke: *fireball blasts directly on Cullen*
Cullen: Dude thanks for the help! Demons everywhere! Oh would you be willing to help the templars out? It's not like you don't have anything better to do.
Hawke: 'kay

*few hours later*

Hawke: Crazy bloodmages kidnapped your people yo.
Cullen: Really? Psycho mages! All of them should be locked up yo!
Hawke: Yeah totally dude/dude not cool they're people too yo!
Cullen: You can't treat them like people yo! You're a person though an awesome person thx for the help and we'll totally take your advice about this blond dude you saved. See ya later! Be careful of mages! Bye!
Hawke: ...kay.

Just wat.

Let's not forget about this gem: 

Hawke: Yo Cullen. I know some dude plotting against the chantry!
Cullen: We know yo! It's that apostate mage that travels around with you!
Hawke: Totally yo! Something should be done!
Cullen: We got peeps going to arrest him now. No worries.

*if Hawke brings Anders with him*

Cullen: We totally know it's you yo. But whateves you can just go.
Hawke: ...really?
Cullen: Reallies. We'll deal with him later yo.

Modifié par Ryzaki, 01 janvier 2012 - 03:36 .

[Mystranna Kelteel]

Youknow wrote...
The fact that the games could be more realistic doesn't change the fact that bisexual people would still be in the minority.

You know what else would be in the minority?

Women who'd want to romance this guy:



But, nope, he can get every lady just because he has a penis.

helz yea realism

[jlb524]

Ryzaki wrote...

...heck mage Hawke is already a wallbanger. If realism is needed anywhere that's where it was needed.

Hawke: *fireball blasts directly on Cullen*
Cullen: Dude thanks for the help! Demons everywhere! Oh would you be willing to help the templars out? It's not like you don't have anything better to do.
Hawke: 'kay

*few hours later*

Hawke: Crazy bloodmages kidnapped your people yo.
Cullen: Really? Psycho mages! All of them should be locked up yo!
Hawke: Yeah totally dude/dude not cool they're people too yo!
Cullen: You can't treat them like people yo! You're a person though an awesome person thx for the help and we'll totally take your advice about this blond dude you saved. See ya later! Be careful of mages! Bye!
Hawke: ...kay.

Just wat.

Yeah...that's just 

That's the reason playing Mage!Hawke kind of sucks.

If you're not playing mage Hawke and you just have Merrill with you...you can hide her behind you so Cullen can't see her.

[jlb524]

Mystranna Kelteel wrote...

Youknow wrote...
The fact that the games could be more realistic doesn't change the fact that bisexual people would still be in the minority.

You know what else would be in the minority?

Women who'd want to romance this guy:



But, nope, he can get every lady just because he has a penis.

helz yea realism

Okay, so you just proved my point with a clever visual

*takes note...use more visuals*

[Ryzaki]

jlb524 wrote...
Yeah...that's just [smilie]../../../images/forum/emoticons/blushing.png[/smilie]

That's the reason playing Mage!Hawke kind of sucks.

If you're not playing mage Hawke and you just have Merrill with you...you can hide her behind you so Cullen can't see her.

It's not much of an improvement if Beth/Merrill's the one who fireblasts Cullen though. [smilie]../../../images/forum/emoticons/lol.png[/smilie] Merrill can be worse because she *can* stab herself and well Cullen's all "Oh. She just stabbed herself in the stomach and used the blood to
attack...whatever could she be doing?" 

It's just a big no all around.


And yes. Sephiroth hair.

Modifié par Ryzaki, 01 janvier 2012 - 03:45 .

[Mystranna Kelteel]

jlb524 wrote...
Okay, so you just proved my point with a clever visual
*takes note...use more visuals*

It's not about the visual.  It's about realism.

The fantasy game should be more realistic.  Some women should only want to romance you if you have a certain amount of gold; some women should only want to romance you if you're a certain race; some need to judge on appearance; and personality can be thrown in here and there for added realism.

Because a person's sexuality is a huge, huge part of someone's character.  I once knew these identical twins who liked all the same things and had all the same opinions except that one was gay and the other was bisexual.  For that reason alone I could tell them apart; it was just so huge that it became glaringly obvious who was whom.  Even when they were dating another set of identical twins I could tell them apart because the one was bisexual.

And, really, that's what these games are all about.  We need more realism like that.  If we don't have it then these characters just become these meaningless "avatars" of real people instead of believably real people with individual personalities.

[jlb524]

Ryzaki wrote...
It's not much of an improvement if Beth/Merrill's the one who fireblasts Cullen though. [smilie]../../../images/forum/emoticons/lol.png[/smilie] Merrill can be worse because she *can* stab herself and well Cullen's all "Oh. She just stabbed herself in the stomach and used the blood to
attack...whatever could she be doing?" 

It's just a big no all around.

yup

Ryzaki wrote... 
And yes. Sephiorth hair.

Okay, okay...I'll give you that.  See, I'm reasonable!

Mystranna Kelteel wrote...
Because a person's sexuality is a huge, huge part of someone's character.  I once knew these identical twins who liked all the same things and had all the same opinions except that one was gay and the other was bisexual.  For that reason alone I could tell them apart; it was just so huge that it became glaringly obvious who was whom.  Even when they were dating another set of identical twins I could tell them apart because the one was bisexual.

Did she wear it on her shirt?

'The shirt' is where you would wear that.

Modifié par jlb524, 01 janvier 2012 - 03:47 .

[Youknow]

@Ryzaki, well, I guess if you played BM that way, yeah, admittedly, I did the same thing with regular Mage Hawke. Killed everyone I could and then agreed with the Templars. I was out of control and needed to be stopped! 

Mystranna Kelteel wrote...

Youknow wrote...
The fact that the games could be more realistic doesn't change the fact that bisexual people would still be in the minority.

You know what else would be in the minority?

Women who'd want to romance this guy:



But, nope, he can get every lady just because he has a penis.

helz yea realism

It's funny and yet... You've still missed the point. Slippery slope arguments are not good arguments. Getting your arm chopped off sucks. Talking about how getting your arm and leg chopped off is worse doesn't change the fact that getting your arm chopped off sucks. It doesn't poke any holes in the realism argument. As it still doesn't change the fact that it's unrealistic. The fact that you bring up other unrealistic things doesn't change a thing. Sure, you could say "well logic is thrown out of the window," but at that point, if you let that bypass, then any arguement would have equal merit. So you're still back to square one. They make a valid point. it's not wrong. 

Not to mention, you can't get everyone woman in the game. Just the romances that are attracted to you because you suck up to them or flood their tent with gifts. 

[Youknow]

Mystranna Kelteel wrote...

jlb524 wrote...
Okay, so you just proved my point with a clever visual
*takes note...use more visuals*

It's not about the visual.  It's about realism.

The fantasy game should be more realistic.  Some women should only want to romance you if you have a certain amount of gold; some women should only want to romance you if you're a certain race; some need to judge on appearance; and personality can be thrown in here and there for added realism.

Because a person's sexuality is a huge, huge part of someone's character.  I once knew these identical twins who liked all the same things and had all the same opinions except that one was gay and the other was bisexual.  For that reason alone I could tell them apart; it was just so huge that it became glaringly obvious who was whom.  Even when they were dating another set of identical twins I could tell them apart because the one was bisexual.

And, really, that's what these games are all about.  We need more realism like that.  If we don't have it then these characters just become these meaningless "avatars" of real people instead of believably real people with individual personalities.

And you know what? I wouldn't mind that. it add a heck of a lot more interesting quirks to the characters. "Doesn't like men with long hair?" Sure. Why not? It's not like it'd necessarily be impossible to hook up with them, it'd just be more difficult if you were a man with long hair as opposed to a man with short hair. 

And wow, you know, this is exactly what I'm talking about. It's just insulting to talk to people that you disagree with like this. 

Suspension of disbelief. There has to be some degree of realism to keep the audience entertained. It's why it's more fun to not see your hero capable of storming a city by himself, because when he does, the story becomes boring, because the author has either pretty much said "I give up," or "the hero is invincible." Neither bode well for the story told. 

[Ryzaki]

...Are you insinuating that one man army sequences aren't fun to watch?

Because oh boy are you wrong about that.

Shep curbstomping everyone in Arrival was my favorite part in ME2. ONE. MAN (or woman if femShep) Army B****.

Modifié par Ryzaki, 01 janvier 2012 - 03:57 .

[Youknow]

Ryzaki wrote...

...Are you insinuating that one man army sequences aren't fun to watch?

Because oh boy are you wrong about that.

Fun to watch sure, but you really don't take the story seriously at that point. 

[jlb524]

Youknow wrote...
Not to mention, you can't get everyone woman in the game. Just the romances that are attracted to you because you suck up to them or flood their tent with gifts. 

OMG, now you get it!!!!

[Ryzaki]

Youknow wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

...Are you insinuating that one man army sequences aren't fun to watch?

Because oh boy are you wrong about that.

Fun to watch sure, but you really don't take the story seriously at that point. 

I stopped taking DA2 seriously when the templars completely ignored my Hawke being a mage and stopped taking DAO seriously when I saw the facepalm worthiness that was Cailan's battle plan. That said DAO at least was taken far more seriously than DA2 (stopped taking ME2 seriously once Lazarus project hit and ME1 lost serious points once Shepard started talking about genocidal robots). [that and the whole magic/space magic both series have going on] DA at least is honest about it's magic. ME just calls it "Reaper tech." 

And I rate fun >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> story being serious.

Serious stories don't mean squat to me if they're boring.

Modifié par Ryzaki, 01 janvier 2012 - 04:03 .

[jlb524]

Ryzaki wrote...

Youknow wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

...Are you insinuating that one man army sequences aren't fun to watch?

Because oh boy are you wrong about that.

Fun to watch sure, but you really don't take the story seriously at that point. 

I stopped talking DA2 seriously when the templars completely ignored my Hawke being a mage and stopped taking DAO seriously when I saw the facepalm worthiness that was Cailan's battle plan.

I don't take any of these games seriously...but that's why they rock!

[Mystranna Kelteel]

Youknow wrote...
It's funny and yet... You've still missed the point. Slippery slope arguments are not good arguments. Getting your arm chopped off sucks. Talking about how getting your arm and leg chopped off is worse doesn't change the fact that getting your arm chopped off sucks. It doesn't poke any holes in the realism argument. As it still doesn't change the fact that it's unrealistic. The fact that you bring up other unrealistic things doesn't change a thing. Sure, you could say "well logic is thrown out of the window," but at that point, if you let that bypass, then any arguement would have equal merit. So you're still back to square one. They make a valid point. it's not wrong.
Not to mention, you can't get everyone woman in the game. Just the romances that are attracted to you because you suck up to them or flood their tent with gifts.

So would you agree that BioWare should make the romances judge the player's appearance and financial status?

I'm not sure you see my point.

I didn't say that both things should occur together, IE getting both your arm and leg chopped off would suck.  Both would suck because both are essentially the same.

You're saying, "Getting a limb chopped off sucks."
I'm saying, "Getting a limb chopped off sucks."

And you seem to be countering with, "Who cares about those guys getting their legs chopped off when that guy on the other side of the room has already lost his arm."

But to drop the analogy and speak plainly, if your argument against everyone being bisexual is because it's not "realistic" then you should also have a problem with these other things that are also unrealistic.  If you make an allowance for the one then what is the difference with the other?  It's not a slippery slope argument.  Romances in the game are already making completely arbitrary "allowances" as to who can sleep with them, but nobody is complaining about those.  Why is that?

And this is completely ignoring the plain and simple fact that having 4 bisexual people be friends with a heroic historical figure is entirely possible to begin with.  If you want to try and play the "realism" game based on what you are defining as the "majority" then once again we are back to you people arguing against homosexuality/bisexuality completely arbitrarily.

[Ryzaki]

jlb524 wrote...
I don't take any of these games seriously...but that's why they rock!

I still want long hair for my dude Shep in ME3.

And yes. For me to be able to take the game seriously a lot of things would need changing. Most of which would not be for the better.

[jlb524]

But gender is sooo important.

This is why all lesbians would sleep with some chick that looks like the brood mother over Alistair. Cuz, female!

Ryzaki wrote...
I still want long hair for my dude Shep in ME3. [smilie]http://social.bioware.com/images/forum/emoticons/crying.png[/smilie] 

It should happen.

Ryzaki wrote... 

And yes. For me to be able to take the game seriously a lot of things would need changing. Most of which would not be for the better. 

I know...what would we mock?  XD

Modifié par jlb524, 01 janvier 2012 - 04:08 .