922 réponses à ce sujet

[Mystranna Kelteel]

Youknow wrote...
Suspension of disbelief. There has to be some degree of realism to keep the audience entertained. It's why it's more fun to not see your hero capable of storming a city by himself, because when he does, the story becomes boring, because the author has either pretty much said "I give up," or "the hero is invincible." Neither bode well for the story told.

Heh, suspension of disbelief.

If people can't suspend disbelief because they see more than 2 bisexuals (even when their character can't possibly know that they are bisexual) then that says a hell of a lot about the mental faculties of these people.

Magic, fine; ancient races of virulent, diseased abominations of other races; awesome; throwing 12 meaningless trinkets at a woman to get her clothes off, perfectly acceptable; having 4 people be quietly bisexual, WHOA WHOA  LETS GET BACK TO THE REALISM PLEASE

Again, this drawing of the line at bisexuality is completely meaningless and petty, and never once have I heard an actual explanationa s to why the line is drawn there.

[Ryzaki]

jlb524 wrote...

But gender is sooo important.

This is why all lesbians would sleep with some chick that looks like the brood mother over Alistair. Cuz, female!

Eeeewwww.

I'm still weirded out that Alistair would prefer my psycho bloodmage that likes slaughtering innocents over my nice nice guy that was selfless and all and he and Alistair agreed on a great deal of things.

Not to mention Zev not caring about my racist dude who enslaved every elf he could and slaughtered a group of innocent dalish while cackling madly.

I don't know. I'd dump someone if they were that crazy.

[Ryzaki]

jlb524 wrote...

It should happen.

It better. Or he will grouch that every female has glammed up hair (even default femShep!) while he's stuck looking...bleh. <_<

I know...what would we mock?  XD

We'd probably have to mock Shep constantly getting turned down since all those single attractive ladies would suddenly either have relationships or not want to bone him.

[jlb524]

Ryzaki wrote...
We'd probably have to mock Shep constantly getting turned down since all those single attractive ladies would suddenly either have relationships or not want to bone him.

teeheee, not even the asari?

Damn!

[Ryzaki]

jlb524 wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...
We'd probably have to mock Shep constantly getting turned down since all those single attractive ladies would suddenly either have relationships or not want to bone him.

teeheee, not even the asari?

Damn!

No they would be more attracted to the human female form. (other than other Asari of course. )

Modifié par Ryzaki, 01 janvier 2012 - 04:16 .

[jlb524]

Ryzaki wrote...

jlb524 wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...
We'd probably have to mock Shep constantly getting turned down since all those single attractive ladies would suddenly either have relationships or not want to bone him.

teeheee, not even the asari?

Damn!

No they would be more attracted to the human female form.

I like this post. <3

[Ryzaki]

jlb524 wrote...

I like this post. <3

I thought you would.

Plus Shep would get odd looks for sleeping with anyone that wasn't a human. (or flat out called a weirdo/fetishist).

Modifié par Ryzaki, 01 janvier 2012 - 04:19 .

[jlb524]

Ryzaki wrote...

jlb524 wrote...

I like this post. <3

I thought you would.

Plus Shep would get odd looks for sleeping with anyone that wasn't a human. (or flat out called a weirdo/fetishist).

See, that didn't happen when I hooked up with Liara and it should have...but nooooooo..

'Tis cool.  Romancing Liara felt like I was romancing a human chick.  Business as usaual, carry on.

[Ryzaki]

jlb524 wrote...

See, that didn't happen when I hooked up with Liara and it should have...but nooooooo..

'Tis cool.  Romancing Liara felt like I was romancing a human chick.  Business as usaual, carry on.

Ash and Kaidan come close in the confrontation scene but no where near as much as it should've been. Pressly should've hit the roof.

Indeed. So unrealistic though. Liara shouldn't have acted like a human chick in the slightest.

[Youknow]

Ryzaki wrote...

Youknow wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

...Are you insinuating that one man army sequences aren't fun to watch?

Because oh boy are you wrong about that.

Fun to watch sure, but you really don't take the story seriously at that point. 

I stopped taking DA2 seriously when the templars completely ignored my Hawke being a mage and stopped taking DAO seriously when I saw the facepalm worthiness that was Cailan's battle plan. That said DAO at least was taken far more seriously than DA2 (stopped taking ME2 seriously once Lazarus project hit and ME1 lost serious points once Shepard started talking about genocidal robots). [that and the whole magic/space magic both series have going on] DA at least is honest about it's magic. ME just calls it "Reaper tech." 

And I rate fun >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> story being serious.

Serious stories don't mean squat to me if they're boring.

You can still be entertaining and still be able to be taken seriously. I'm not saying that you can't. And yes, in a video game, I'd definitely take fun factor over the story being good. As if I wanted a good story, I'd pick up a book. Which generally has more time and effort spent on the story (as it should). 

Mystranna Kelteel wrote...

Youknow wrote...
It's funny and yet... You've still missed the point. Slippery slope arguments are not good arguments. Getting your arm chopped off sucks. Talking about how getting your arm and leg chopped off is worse doesn't change the fact that getting your arm chopped off sucks. It doesn't poke any holes in the realism argument. As it still doesn't change the fact that it's unrealistic. The fact that you bring up other unrealistic things doesn't change a thing. Sure, you could say "well logic is thrown out of the window," but at that point, if you let that bypass, then any arguement would have equal merit. So you're still back to square one. They make a valid point. it's not wrong. 
Not to mention, you can't get everyone woman in the game. Just the romances that are attracted to you because you suck up to them or flood their tent with gifts. 

So would you agree that BioWare should make the romances judge the player's appearance and financial status?

I'm not sure you see my point.

I didn't say that both things should occur together, IE getting both your arm and leg chopped off would suck.  Both would suck because both are essentially the same.

You're saying, "Getting a limb chopped off sucks."
I'm saying, "Getting a limb chopped off sucks."

And you seem to be countering with, "Who cares about those guys getting their legs chopped off when that guy on the other side of the room has already lost his arm."

But to drop the analogy and speak plainly, if your argument against everyone being bisexual is because it's not "realistic" then you should also have a problem with these other things that are also unrealistic.  If you make an allowance for the one then what is the difference with the other?  It's not a slippery slope argument.  Romances in the game are already making completely arbitrary "allowances" as to who can sleep with them, but nobody is complaining about those.  Why is that?

And this is completely ignoring the plain and simple fact that having 4 bisexual people be friends with a heroic historical figure is entirely possible to begin with.  If you want to try and play the "realism" game based on what you are defining as the "majority" then once again we are back to you people arguing against homosexuality/bisexuality completely arbitrarily.

I didn't say they should. I said I guess it'd be okay if they did that. Not having a problem with it doesn't mean that I say that they SHOULD do it. This is where you keep hitting these problems with your method of arguing. You rely on trying to force statements down people's throat and then counter what you are forcing. That's not arguing against them. That said, I'm fine if it's in. I like character quirks, and it does add a more fun side to them, and it gets you more grounds to role play a broader spectrum of people considering that slight differences such as your face can completely change how people react to you. How does that NOT sound fun for a RPG? I'm not saying that Bioware SHOULD do anything. Doing different things each time is about the only thing I think they SHOULD do. Sexualities included in what characters are/aren't like/dislike. Bisexual every time for all is boring, it's unrealistic, the reasons for being against it that I have are numerous. Note, this is not to be confused with "I don't want bisexuality at all." Heck, I wouldn't even be against "NO romance" as that's generally my first playthrough option anyways. 

And yes, it's a slippery slope. It's a slippery slope at its finest hour. So if you do this, you'll let this, and then this, and then this etc. And you keep on sliding to different things despite them being farther and farther in magnitude. Having people rate off of attractiveness is a far larger scale than sexuality and far more demanding for designing. How is that not slippery slope when you keep sliding to broader topics from your initial one? 

Where did I say that it wasn't possible? I said I was fine with it with DA2. I just said, I don't think it should be done every game. Which is what you guys seem to be pushing for. 

[jlb524]

Ryzaki wrote...

jlb524 wrote...

See, that didn't happen when I hooked up with Liara and it should have...but nooooooo..

'Tis cool.  Romancing Liara felt like I was romancing a human chick.  Business as usaual, carry on.

Ash and Kaidan come close in the confrontation scene but no where near as much as it should've been. Pressly should've hit the roof.

Indeed. So unrealistic though. Liara shouldn't have acted like a human chick in the slightest.

I think Liara should have just been a human chick given how they handled it.  But human bisexuals is bad, m'kay.  So, lets make a race that has an excuse to be bisexual!  No one can complain about that, amrite?

[Ryzaki]

Youknow wrote...
You can still be entertaining and still be able to be taken seriously. I'm not saying that you can't. And yes, in a video game, I'd definitely take fun factor over the story being good. As if I wanted a good story, I'd pick up a book. Which generally has more time and effort spent on the story (as it should).

Indeed and we just find what adds to the fun factor to be different things. I find all bi far more fun then "one or more straight LIs with a sole token bi LI." Different strokes.

Well unless the devs are willing to have one or more gay LIs of both genders with a sole token straight LI." then I'd be perfectly okay with that for the sheer lulz if nothing else.

Neither of us are being unselfish. We both want what we'd prefer.

Modifié par Ryzaki, 01 janvier 2012 - 04:31 .

[Youknow]

Mystranna Kelteel wrote...

Youknow wrote...
Suspension of disbelief. There has to be some degree of realism to keep the audience entertained. It's why it's more fun to not see your hero capable of storming a city by himself, because when he does, the story becomes boring, because the author has either pretty much said "I give up," or "the hero is invincible." Neither bode well for the story told.

Heh, suspension of disbelief.

If people can't suspend disbelief because they see more than 2 bisexuals (even when their character can't possibly know that they are bisexual) then that says a hell of a lot about the mental faculties of these people.

Magic, fine; ancient races of virulent, diseased abominations of other races; awesome; throwing 12 meaningless trinkets at a woman to get her clothes off, perfectly acceptable; having 4 people be quietly bisexual, WHOA WHOA  LETS GET BACK TO THE REALISM PLEASE

Again, this drawing of the line at bisexuality is completely meaningless and petty, and never once have I heard an actual explanationa s to why the line is drawn there.

Um, I can suspend disbelief when it happens for EVERY SINGLE BIOWARE GAME after a certain point. So yes "Heh, suspension of disbelief." Indeed.

Magic is considered in the world as "normal." Bisexuality and homosexuality IIRC is not the "norm" in DA:O but is accepted in practice. That means that it's not a standard thing in the world. And again, reading comprehension is amazing. I never said I was again 4 people being bi. I even started by saying I was fine with it in DA2. I just said it shouldn't be in every game. That's it. 

Again, you don't have any clue where I draw the line for realism. You don't know me. Pretending you do isn't getting you anywhere. 

The fact of the matter, is that these arguments could get somewhere if you'd behave like a rational human being for at least one post. 

[Ryzaki]

jlb524 wrote...
I think Liara should have just been a human chick given how they handled it.  But human bisexuals is bad, m'kay.  So, lets make a race that has an excuse to be bisexual!  No one can complain about that, amrite?

But then they wouldn't have been able to use the "I can read your mind perfectly and get exactly what I need on one go but it's a little tiring." tripe. Pfft.

And yeah a race of blue skinned tentacle beings that look human women and can have hawt mind sex with everything and don't tend to stick with their own race (in fact doing that is taboo they'd rather have babies with everyone the heck else!) just made me.

[Youknow]

Ryzaki wrote...

Youknow wrote...
You can still be entertaining and still be able to be taken seriously. I'm not saying that you can't. And yes, in a video game, I'd definitely take fun factor over the story being good. As if I wanted a good story, I'd pick up a book. Which generally has more time and effort spent on the story (as it should).

Indeed and we just find what adds to the fun factor to be different things. I find all bi far more fun then "one or more straight LIs with a sole token bi LI." Different strokes.

Neither of us are being unselfish. We both want what we'd prefer.

I can agree with that. I even had fun with bisexuality in DA2. I totally went for everyone with my male Hawke. Female Hawke went with Fenris for Act 1 and some of Act 2, and then it kinda just drifted off afterward when spoilers happened at the end of Act 1. And yeah, I wouldn't even care if gay/bisexual overhwhelmed the amount of straight romances. As I'd think it would keep things fresher with the characters that way. 

[Ryzaki]

Youknow wrote...
I can agree with that. I even had fun with bisexuality in DA2. I totally went for everyone with my male Hawke. Female Hawke went with Fenris for Act 1 and some of Act 2, and then it kinda just drifted off afterward when spoilers happened at the end of Act 1. And yeah, I wouldn't even care if gay/bisexual overhwhelmed the amount of straight romances. As I'd think it would keep things fresher with the characters that way. 

I actually didn't go for everyone. The freedom to go for the LI I actually wanted instead of the LI I was simply allowed though was great. My Hawkes stay with their LI the whole game.

I'm not really caring about how fresher things stay. I don't tend to switch LIs so I'd be perfectly okay if getting one LI permantely blocked you from all others for the duration of the playthrough. (like romancing Morrigan turned Leliana completely off or vice versa). [as long as I get the option to attempt to persue all of them in the first place].

Modifié par Ryzaki, 01 janvier 2012 - 04:36 .

[Realmzmaster]

More realism in a fantasy game? You are now going to ask the game to judge whether a character is attractive or not. That would require far more resources than any developer could manage. Because the definition of attractiveness differs from culture to culture. The old adage is Beauty lies in the eye of the beholder holds sway.

It reminds me of the old Munsters TV show where the human niece (supposedly beautiful by human standards) was considered the ugly one. Her uncle and aunt were worried she would never find a suitable man because of her ugliness.

It is easier with the D & D system because there was a Charisma attribute which encompassed Physical attractiveness, Personal Magnetism, and Persuasiveness. The problem was the character could be ugly and still strong in the other two characteristics. D & D tried to use Comeliness (as a 7th score) to show physical attractiveness. Comeliness was dropped.

There is a point where realism intrudes upon fantasy. Gamers want to have realism in certain aspects of the fantasy game and other aspects can be unrealistic. That defining point is different for each gamer. If I wanted a game close to realistic I would play Mount & Blade (which has no fantasy elements). I am not looking for Medieval Sims, either.

The more realism you put into the game the less it becomes a fantasy game. I play games to escape RL. Having every LI be bi, ****** or hetero is a design decision that I leave to the developers and writers that are telling the story.

If the story called for no romances , it would not bother me. If parts of the story called for an all female party. I am up for it. If the story calls for all members of a party to be of a particular sexual orientation I do not care as long as the story can justify it.

If the developer is trying to tell a story then what happens should revolve around the story or sub story being told.

[jlb524]

Youknow wrote...

You can still be entertaining and still be able to be taken seriously. I'm not saying that you can't. And yes, in a video game, I'd definitely take fun factor over the story being good. As if I wanted a good story, I'd pick up a book. Which generally has more time and effort spent on the story (as it should). 

I wouldn't say that...RPG games can be a different story telling medium so the same rules don't apply.

The appeal of RPGs such as these is that the story is partially your own to create.  Thus, it might not comply with the rules associated with books but it gives you freedom in exchange, which is a good thing, IMO.  Which is why I play these games instead of just reading books.  I do like to read a lot, but I also love playing out the BW stories for different reasons.

In a book, the protagonist's motives are fixed...their gender is fixed, their sexuality is fixed...how they interact with other characters is fixed.  The choices they make are fixed and you are just along for the ride.   In BW style RP games, you get to control these things to some extent.

In my BW story, I can play as a lesbian and have the freedom to select which potential female she falls in love with (or, that's the ideal I'm fighting for).  When that choice is removed from me and I have to romance 'female X' because they decided that 'female X' is the only one I could have (instead of, me deciding which female LI is best for my PC) then I take issue...especially when people who want their protagonist to be a straight male have the option to pick whichever female they want regardless of how they create and roleplay them...it seems unfair to me.

Modifié par jlb524, 01 janvier 2012 - 04:36 .

[Youknow]

Ryzaki wrote...

Youknow wrote...
I can agree with that. I even had fun with bisexuality in DA2. I totally went for everyone with my male Hawke. Female Hawke went with Fenris for Act 1 and some of Act 2, and then it kinda just drifted off afterward when spoilers happened at the end of Act 1. And yeah, I wouldn't even care if gay/bisexual overhwhelmed the amount of straight romances. As I'd think it would keep things fresher with the characters that way. 

I actually didn't go for everyone. The freedom to go for the LI I actually wanted instead of the LI I was simply allowed though was great. My Hawkes stay with their LI the whole game.

I'm not really caring about how fresher things stay. I don't tend to switch LIs so I'd be perfectly okay if getting one LI permantely blocked you from all others for the duration of the playthrough. (like romancing Morrigan turned Leliana completely off or vice versa).

Sure. I can understand that. I was RPing FemHawke, and she kind broke up because of what happened at Act 1's ending. She just didn't feel like dating after that and became more dedicated to her mother and uncle. 

Oh, I'd be fine with that too, and it kind of does happen in DA2. At one point, when I was with Izabella, and then immediately got with Merril, she threatened to "cut them off" if she found out I was sleeping with Merril. In the end, I stayed with Merril though. Fenris wasn't too hard, but he does get plenty angry if/when he founds out... Anders is just lol. I wasn't saying "fresher" in the "there are more people to jump around to in a single playthrough," I was saying "fresher" in the sense of the characters are less static. It's kind of like how Bioware seems to have gotten comfortable with the "Carth" build for the male lead. Soldier, pretty nice guy, kinda damaged but not to disfunctional levels etc. 

[Youknow]

jlb524 wrote...

Youknow wrote...

You can still be entertaining and still be able to be taken seriously. I'm not saying that you can't. And yes, in a video game, I'd definitely take fun factor over the story being good. As if I wanted a good story, I'd pick up a book. Which generally has more time and effort spent on the story (as it should). 

I wouldn't say that...RPG games can be a different story telling medium so the same rules don't apply.

The appeal of RPGs such as these is that the story is partially your own to create.  Thus, it might not comply with the rules associated with books but it gives you freedom in exchange, which is a good thing, IMO.  Which is why I play these games instead of just reading books.  I do like to read a lot, but I also love playing out the BW stories for different reasons.

In a book, the protagonist's motives are fixed...their gender is fixed, their sexuality is fixed...how they interact with other characters is fixed.  The choices they make are fixed and you are just along for the ride.   In BW style RP games, you get to control these things to some extent.

In my BW story, I can play as a lesbian and have the freedom to select which potential female she falls in love with (or, that's the ideal I'm fighting for).  When that choice is removed from me and I have to romance 'female X' because they decided that 'female X' is the only one I could have (instead of, me deciding which female LI is best for my PC) then I take issue...especially when people who want their protagonist to be a straight male have the option to pick whichever female they want regardless of how they create and roleplay them...it seems unfair to me.

Hmm... Yeah, good point. I guess RPGs could be an exception to that. As you'd definitely need more freedom to sacrifice the story. 

True enough. I can't argue with that. 

Believe me, I love playing everything. I wanted to make one of my Sheperd's gay, but was kinda disappointed when they said "Sheperd is canonically straight" which is why I got annoyed because it didn't stop my FemShep from being attracted to Liara, or getting a lapdance from Kelly (which man, that was annoying. Yeoman Chambers "please call me Kelly!"  Telling her multiple times that you won't and she still insist you call her Kelly if you tell her "no.") At the same time, I see where you're going, I just wish more of them did like Jack and Samara and would flat out be like "no" or something. Even Jack made me admittedly rage the first time when I played as MaleShep and she wanted to love me and I was like "what's her problem!? She needs help and I want to be her friend, not her lover." So I can understand the frustrations, you definitely aren't alone on that one. All of us experience them within the game. 

[Ryzaki]

Youknow wrote...
Sure. I can understand that. I was RPing FemHawke, and she kind broke up because of what happened at Act 1's ending. She just didn't feel like dating after that and became more dedicated to her mother and uncle. 

Oh, I'd be fine with that too, and it kind of does happen in DA2. At one point, when I was with Izabella, and then immediately got with Merril, she threatened to "cut them off" if she found out I was sleeping with Merril. In the end, I stayed with Merril though. Fenris wasn't too hard, but he does get plenty angry if/when he founds out... Anders is just lol. I wasn't saying "fresher" in the "there are more people to jump around to in a single playthrough," I was saying "fresher" in the sense of the characters are less static. It's kind of like how Bioware seems to have gotten comfortable with the "Carth" build for the male lead. Soldier, pretty nice guy, kinda damaged but not to disfunctional levels etc. 

I see.

Yeah and Fenris tends to not want to touch a Hawke who slept with anyone else.

Anders is ridculous. "I'd totally be better for you Hawke." the hypocrisy of some of his statements was pretty lulz worthy too.

Pssh. BW's been recycling the same couple of character archetypes since BG2. Let alone KOTOR. They recycle them pretty well to me though so I have no complaints.

See the only reason I really want all BI is because I felt that Alistair went with far more of my characters (both male and female) than any other LI. Instead if I wanted to play a male he had the choice between Morrigan (...terrible choice for him), Leliana (not too bad but not as good as Alistair) or Zevran (another pretty bad choice). If he was gay? Just Zev. It really was a bit of a bummer. Wheres with DA2 if I had a pro-mage Hawke? He had the choice of 4 Lis and if he was gay? 2 LIs.
 
All of my LIs could find someone and I didn't have to worry about him not being able to romance him because of him being the wrong gender.

Modifié par Ryzaki, 01 janvier 2012 - 04:49 .

[jlb524]

Youknow wrote...
Hmm... Yeah, good point. I guess RPGs could be an exception to that. As you'd definitely need more freedom to sacrifice the story. 

True enough. I can't argue with that. 

Believe me, I love playing everything. I wanted to make one of my Sheperd's gay, but was kinda disappointed when they said "Sheperd is canonically straight" which is why I got annoyed because it didn't stop my FemShep from being attracted to Liara, or getting a lapdance from Kelly (which man, that was annoying. Yeoman Chambers "please call me Kelly!"  Telling her multiple times that you won't and she still insist you call her Kelly if you tell her "no.") At the same time, I see where you're going, I just wish more of them did like Jack and Samara and would flat out be like "no" or something. Even Jack made me admittedly rage the first time when I played as MaleShep and she wanted to love me and I was like "what's her problem!? She needs help and I want to be her friend, not her lover." So I can understand the frustrations, you definitely aren't alone on that one. All of us experience them within the game. 

I'm totally fine with some characters just shooting you down (like Aveline or Samara)....but they write in paths that accomodate that and it's not a case where I simply cannot even approache Aveline or Samara b/c of my gender.  I can still approach them, but they just aren't feeling me for whatever reasons.  Like, Aveline views my Hawke as more of a little sister (or brother).  

My thing is, given the limits on who you can even romance (b/c there's usually like only 4 of them in a DA game) why impose an extra limitation on gender?  The romance dialog and scene is already there for them...why cut it off due to gender only?

Modifié par jlb524, 01 janvier 2012 - 04:55 .

[tmp7704]

Ryzaki wrote...

I will gladly sacrifice all romances if being a bloodmage was *finally* seriously acknowledged in a DA game.

I think this would, more likely, come at the expense of being able not to be a bloodmage. I.e. increased degree of how fixed the protagonist would be.

Which is something... well, not sure how i feel about. In a way, it'd probably make the game/experience feel smaller (in the 'forget choices, just dutifully follow the cutscene train prepared for you, little man' sense)  On the other hand they could be good cutscenes/story, so who knows.

[Youknow]

Ryzaki wrote...

Youknow wrote...
Sure. I can understand that. I was RPing FemHawke, and she kind broke up because of what happened at Act 1's ending. She just didn't feel like dating after that and became more dedicated to her mother and uncle. 

Oh, I'd be fine with that too, and it kind of does happen in DA2. At one point, when I was with Izabella, and then immediately got with Merril, she threatened to "cut them off" if she found out I was sleeping with Merril. In the end, I stayed with Merril though. Fenris wasn't too hard, but he does get plenty angry if/when he founds out... Anders is just lol. I wasn't saying "fresher" in the "there are more people to jump around to in a single playthrough," I was saying "fresher" in the sense of the characters are less static. It's kind of like how Bioware seems to have gotten comfortable with the "Carth" build for the male lead. Soldier, pretty nice guy, kinda damaged but not to disfunctional levels etc. 

I see.

Yeah and Fenris tends to not want to touch a Hawke who slept with anyone else.

Anders is ridculous. "I'd totally be better for you Hawke." the hypocrisy of some of his statements was pretty lulz worthy too.

Pssh. BW's been recycling the same couple of character archetypes since BG2. Let alone KOTOR. They recycle them pretty well to me though so I have no complaints.

See the only reason I really want all BI is because I felt that Alistair went with far more of my characters (both male and female) than any other LI. Instead if I wanted to play a male he had the choice between Morrigan (...terrible choice for him), Leliana (not too bad but not as good as Alistair) or Zevran (another pretty bad choice). If he was gay? Just Zev. It really was a bit of a bummer. Wheres with DA2 if I had a pro-mage Hawke? He had the choice of 4 Lis and if he was gay? 2 LIs.
 
All of my LIs could find someone and I didn't have to worry about him not being able to romance him because of him being the wrong gender.

Yeah, they do recycle them pretty well, but being risky is good too. After all, they kinda were with Dragon Age 2. For instance,  Aveline is kinda the "male lead" archetype for DA2, but even she's a bit different outside of the fact that she's a woman. For starters, she doesn't want you, and unlike the rest of them sans Carth, she's not nearly as laid back. She really does have a stick shoved up her butt, and she doesn't have a problem with taking it out and whacking people around with it. And because of their risky choices, it's why we even have 4 bisexuals in the first place! I can't think of many mainstream games that would do something that bold, and I applaud them for that. 

Yeah, I see where you're coming from with that too. You definitely had more options in DA2. Which is why I said it was kinda cool with it when it happened. But for me personally, I just don't want to see it every time. 

[Ryzaki]

Youknow wrote...
Yeah, they do recycle them pretty well, but being risky is good too. After all, they kinda were with Dragon Age 2. For instance,  Aveline is kinda the "male lead" archetype for DA2, but even she's a bit different outside of the fact that she's a woman. For starters, she doesn't want you, and unlike the rest of them sans Carth, she's not nearly as laid back. She really does have a stick shoved up her butt, and she doesn't have a problem with taking it out and whacking people around with it. And because of their risky choices, it's why we even have 4 bisexuals in the first place! I can't think of many mainstream games that would do something that bold, and I applaud them for that. 

Yeah, I see where you're coming from with that too. You definitely had more options in DA2. Which is why I said it was kinda cool with it when it happened. But for me personally, I just don't want to see it every time. 

Yes Aveline was pretty different. Carth? Laid back?  Wat. Carth had a stick shoved up his butt too.

Ah I see what you mean. You want variety? Nothing wrong with that.
I wouldn't mind for their to be 1 bi, gay, straight LI of each gender in a few games either. :happy: