922 réponses à ce sujet

[Ryzaki]

tmp7704 wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

I will gladly sacrifice all romances if being a bloodmage was *finally* seriously acknowledged in a DA game.

I think this would, more likely, come at the expense of being able not to be a bloodmage. I.e. increased degree of how fixed the protagonist would be.

Which is something... well, not sure how i feel about. In a way, it'd probably make the game/experience feel smaller (in the 'forget choices, just dutifully follow the cutscene train prepared for you, little man' sense)  On the other hand they could be good cutscenes/story, so who knows.

To me it depends on how well it's done.

I don't know. The PC might not *have* to be a bloodmage (just with the choice of one of the companions being a bloodmage if the PC isn't one).

Plus the devs could do a good job with how the protag was forced to be a bloodmage (is the PC a bloodmage for the power? Or only because it was the only way to defend him/herself?).

[Youknow]

jlb524 wrote...

Youknow wrote...
Hmm... Yeah, good point. I guess RPGs could be an exception to that. As you'd definitely need more freedom to sacrifice the story. 

True enough. I can't argue with that. 

Believe me, I love playing everything. I wanted to make one of my Sheperd's gay, but was kinda disappointed when they said "Sheperd is canonically straight" which is why I got annoyed because it didn't stop my FemShep from being attracted to Liara, or getting a lapdance from Kelly (which man, that was annoying. Yeoman Chambers "please call me Kelly!"  Telling her multiple times that you won't and she still insist you call her Kelly if you tell her "no.") At the same time, I see where you're going, I just wish more of them did like Jack and Samara and would flat out be like "no" or something. Even Jack made me admittedly rage the first time when I played as MaleShep and she wanted to love me and I was like "what's her problem!? She needs help and I want to be her friend, not her lover." So I can understand the frustrations, you definitely aren't alone on that one. All of us experience them within the game. 

I'm totally fine with some characters just shooting you down (like Aveline or Samara)....but they write in paths that accomodate that and it's not a case where I simply cannot even approache Aveline or Samara b/c of my gender.  I can still approach them, but they just aren't feeling me for whatever reasons.  Like, Aveline views my Hawke as more of a little sister (or brother).  

My thing is, given the limits on who you can even romance (b/c there's usually like only 4 of them in a DA game) why impose an extra limitation on gender?  The romance dialog and scene is already there for them...why cut it off due to gender only?

I like it when there's being shot down. It totally reminds me that my character isn't a god in the sandbox. And it makes for more interesting character dynamics when not everyone wants a piece of your avatar. Especially when you aren't interested in romances. *Glares at Liara and Leliana* I felt horrible when I had to shoot down Leliana for Allistar. 

You'd have to ask Bioware that.  Because I have no idea what goes on in their mind. Maybe they just don't think of that when they are creating the characters. Maybe they just don't feel like seeing the same scenes twice to ensure they work? 

[tmp7704]

jlb524 wrote...

OP states:  Do you like the all bi thing?

Me:  Yes!

Others:  No!

Me:  Why?

Others:  because of character integrity/realism/stuff.

Me:  but other BW games lacked that in the romance department and it was okay...so what's wrong now?

Thread:  .... silence and/or name calling.

Having spent a few posts in this thread trying to answer your question in good faith, i have to ask -- is this really how you view our exchange, or are you knowingly misconstructing/omitting the events to suit this skewed picture you're painting ... something that'd be quite silly to do because everyone with eyes and ability to read can see that's a dishonest take on how things actually went?

[jlb524]

Ryzaki wrote...
I wouldn't mind for their to be 1 bi, gay, straight LI of each gender in a few games either. :happy:

That could be one ideal but I still don't see the problem with having them all just be open based on gender.

If they will throw in hetero-only LIs, then hell yes I want gay-only LIs.

However, I prefer the 'all bi open' option because you can select the LI based on their character and not gender limits.

I don't see the issue...why can't we just all get along and share our love for Alistair, Isabela, Fenris, Merrill, Morrigan?

tmp7704 wrote...
Having spent a few posts in this thread trying to answer your question in good faith, i have to ask -- is this really how you view our exchange, or are you knowingly misconstructing/omitting the events to suit this skewed picture you're painting ... something that'd be quite silly to do because everyone with eyes and ability to read can see that's a dishonest take on how things actually went?

So what is your point then?

I think I've made mine clear.

Youknow wrote...

I like it when there's being shot down. It totally reminds me that my character isn't a god in the sandbox. And it makes for more interesting character dynamics when not everyone wants a piece of your avatar. Especially when you aren't interested in romances. *Glares at Liara and Leliana* I felt horrible when I had to shoot down Leliana for Allistar. 

You'd have to ask Bioware that.  Because I have no idea what goes on in their mind. Maybe they just don't think of that when they are creating the characters. Maybe they just don't feel like seeing the same scenes twice to ensure they work? 

But you can be shot down in DA2 in a few instances...you cannot be shot down in Origins.

It's not just Aveline, but you can try to flirt with that one Dalish elf female and she shoots you down....there's plenty of that in DA2.  That didn't exist at all in DA:O.  

You shot down Leliana but she didn't shoot you down...see the difference? 

Modifié par jlb524, 01 janvier 2012 - 05:08 .

[Youknow]

Ryzaki wrote...

Youknow wrote...
Yeah, they do recycle them pretty well, but being risky is good too. After all, they kinda were with Dragon Age 2. For instance,  Aveline is kinda the "male lead" archetype for DA2, but even she's a bit different outside of the fact that she's a woman. For starters, she doesn't want you, and unlike the rest of them sans Carth, she's not nearly as laid back. She really does have a stick shoved up her butt, and she doesn't have a problem with taking it out and whacking people around with it. And because of their risky choices, it's why we even have 4 bisexuals in the first place! I can't think of many mainstream games that would do something that bold, and I applaud them for that. 

Yeah, I see where you're coming from with that too. You definitely had more options in DA2. Which is why I said it was kinda cool with it when it happened. But for me personally, I just don't want to see it every time. 

Yes Aveline was pretty different. Carth? Laid back?  Wat. Carth had a stick shoved up his butt too.

Ah I see what you mean. You want variety? Nothing wrong with that.
I wouldn't mind for their to be 1 bi, gay, straight LI of each gender in a few games either. :happy:

That's why I said "sans Carth" 
But yeah, Carth had one up his butt because of what the heck happened to him. Aveline? We see her before her "bad thing happens" she's just a naturally gruff woman. 

Neither would I. 

[Ryzaki]

Oh lawd.

The "I love you no matter how much of a douche you are to me." needs to die in a fire. S/S or otherwise.

Though yeah read that Carth bit wrong.   Aveline is pretty awesome.

Modifié par Ryzaki, 01 janvier 2012 - 05:07 .

[tmp7704]

jlb524 wrote...

So what is your point then?

I think I've made mine clear.

My point was, to put it simply -- when making false description how the discussion in the thread went -- were you lying about it to self, or to these who would read your post?

[Youknow]

Ryzaki wrote...

Oh lawd.

The "I love you no matter how much of a douche you are to me." needs to die in a fire. S/S or otherwise.

Though yeah read that Carth bit wrong.

Oh yes. Man do I hate that. I mean, unless the person just loves abuse and it's part of their character, that needs to go. Definitely. 

Anyway, I think I'm going to bed, and you guys have a safe night if you are doing anything for celebrating new years. I'd be a shame to start out the new year by being hospitalized or worse...

Modifié par Youknow, 01 janvier 2012 - 05:09 .

[jlb524]

tmp7704 wrote...

jlb524 wrote...

So what is your point then?

I think I've made mine clear.

My point was, to put it simply -- when making false description how the discussion in the thread went -- were you lying about it to self, or to these who would read your post?

What lie did I tell?

[Ryzaki]

Youknow wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

Oh lawd.

The "I love you no matter how much of a douche you are to me." needs to die in a fire. S/S or otherwise.

Though yeah read that Carth bit wrong.

Oh yes. Man do I hate that. I mean, unless the person just loves abuse and it's part of their character, that needs to go. Definitely. 

It does. There's only about one or two characters I can think of that it makes sense for. Everyone else just boggles my mind.

"I hate you freak!"

"I LOVE YOU!" 

Just...wat.

That bothers me so much.

Thankfully DA isn't as bad as this as say ME.

Modifié par Ryzaki, 01 janvier 2012 - 05:10 .

[Youknow]

jlb524 wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...
I wouldn't mind for their to be 1 bi, gay, straight LI of each gender in a few games either. :happy:

That could be one ideal but I still don't see the problem with having them all just be open based on gender.

If they will throw in hetero-only LIs, then hell yes I want gay-only LIs.

However, I prefer the 'all bi open' option because you can select the LI based on their character and not gender limits.

I don't see the issue...why can't we just all get along and share our love for Alistair, Isabela, Fenris, Merrill, Morrigan?

tmp7704 wrote...
Having spent a few posts in this thread trying to answer your question in good faith, i have to ask -- is this really how you view our exchange, or are you knowingly misconstructing/omitting the events to suit this skewed picture you're painting ... something that'd be quite silly to do because everyone with eyes and ability to read can see that's a dishonest take on how things actually went?

So what is your point then?

I think I've made mine clear.

Youknow wrote...

I like it when there's being shot down. It totally reminds me that my character isn't a god in the sandbox. And it makes for more interesting character dynamics when not everyone wants a piece of your avatar. Especially when you aren't interested in romances. *Glares at Liara and Leliana* I felt horrible when I had to shoot down Leliana for Allistar. 

You'd have to ask Bioware that.  Because I have no idea what goes on in their mind. Maybe they just don't think of that when they are creating the characters. Maybe they just don't feel like seeing the same scenes twice to ensure they work? 

But you can be shot down in DA2 in a few instances...you cannot be shot down in Origins.

It's not just Aveline, but you can try to flirt with that one Dalish elf female and she shoots you down....there's plenty of that in DA2.  That didn't exist at all in DA:O.  

You shot down Leliana but she didn't shoot you down...see the difference? 

But I can respond to this since I missed it. Yes, I see the difference. That's why I mentioned Jack. She shoots you down basically if you keep talking to her as a female. I'd rather it be this way. You should be able to, and so should the characters. 

Oh, there's a Dalish that shoots you down in DA2? Didn't know that. 

[tmp7704]

Mystranna Kelteel wrote...

Magic, fine; ancient races of virulent, diseased abominations of other races; awesome; throwing 12 meaningless trinkets at a woman to get her clothes off, perfectly acceptable; having 4 people be quietly bisexual, WHOA WHOA  LETS GET BACK TO THE REALISM PLEASE

Again, this drawing of the line at bisexuality is completely meaningless and petty, and never once have I heard an actual explanationa s to why the line is drawn there.

I'd say the lack of explanation comes from the fact you are the one who's drawing this line, effectively building a straw man -- as i recall quite a lot of mockery of the gift system, to the point where it was actually changed in DA2 as result of such feedback.

The other things you mention are purely fantastical construct, so there should be no question why it's easier to suspend disbelief when it comes to these, than when it comes to aspects of human psychology -- we have no volumes of personal experience when it comes to the former, but we do when it comes to the latter.

[Ryzaki]

Youknow wrote...
But I can respond to this since I missed it. Yes, I see the difference. That's why I mentioned Jack. She shoots you down basically if you keep talking to her as a female. I'd rather it be this way. You should be able to, and so should the characters. 

Oh, there's a Dalish that shoots you down in DA2? Didn't know that. 

Ugh I hated Jack.

She shot my dude Shep trying to be friends with her down too. I shouldn't have to bone you Jack to let you know you have someone who has your back damnit.

Seriously that pissed me off far more than any romance did. Lack of friendship paths suck.

[tmp7704]

jlb524 wrote...

What lie did I tell?

Me: but other BW games lacked that in the romance department and it was okay...so what's wrong now?

Thread: .... silence and/or name calling.

heck, it's even spelt out in the very post you quoted to ask your question:

"My point was, to put it simply -- when making false description how the discussion in the thread went -- were you lying about it to self, or to these who would read your post?"

Modifié par tmp7704, 01 janvier 2012 - 05:20 .

[jlb524]

Ah yes, it's totes okay that both Morrigan and Leliana would want to make it with this guy:

Mystranna Kelteel wrote...

But it's not totes okay that Merrill and Isabela could possibly want to make it with my atttactive and charming female Hawke.

That is a huge leap!

^^

tmp7704 wrote...
heck, it's even spelt out in the very post you quoted to ask your question:

"My point was, to put it simply -- when making false description how the discussion in the thread went -- were you lying about it to self, or to these who would read your post?"

I haven't lied about anything and now I have visual aids!

Edit:  I do love your DA:O mods so I should be nice.

Modifié par jlb524, 01 janvier 2012 - 05:38 .

[rak72]

^ Beauty is subjective, gender is not

[Ryzaki]

That is true.

I however do not see someone as vain as Morrigan seriously romancing a Warden that looked like that. The others? Yeah sure. Morrigan? Nah.

[jlb524]

rak72 wrote...

^ Beauty is subjective, gender is not

Then I offer my Broodmother vs. Alistair dilemma.

[rak72]

^ whatever

[jlb524]

rak72 wrote...

^ whatever

Que?

[Ryzaki]

To be fair jlb the Warden is "canonically" beautiful. Even if he/she looks like they fell out of the ugly tree, hit every branch on the way down, then got beat with it for good measure.

[rak72]

Ryzaki wrote...

That is true.

I however do not see someone as vain as Morrigan seriously romancing a Warden that looked like that. The others? Yeah sure. Morrigan? Nah.

Like I said earlier in the thread - Morigans main goal was the OGB.  She is going to play nice with him no matter what he looks like or what his race.  And besides - ugly guys get beautiful girls all the time.  There are many more variables involved other than looks. Plus, if you spent 2 years traveling with Oghren, that might start looking pretty good.

Modifié par rak72, 01 janvier 2012 - 05:53 .

[jlb524]

Ryzaki wrote...

To be fair jlb the Warden is "canonically" beautiful. Even if he/she looks like they fell out of the ugly tree, hit every branch on the way down, then got beat with it for good measure.

I'm talking about broodmother vs. Alistair.

rak72 wrote...

Like I said earlier in the thread - Morigans main goal was the OGB.  She is going to play nice with him no matter what he looks like or what his race.  And besides - ugly guys get beautiful girls all the time.  There are many more variables involved other than looks. Plus, if you spent 2 years traveling with Oghren, that might start looking pretty good.

You should watch 'The L Word'.

This lesbian character named 'Shane' gets straight chicks all the time.

Modifié par jlb524, 01 janvier 2012 - 05:55 .

[Ryzaki]

rak72 wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

That is true.

I however do not see someone as vain as Morrigan seriously romancing a Warden that looked like that. The others? Yeah sure. Morrigan? Nah.

Like I said earlier in the thread - Morigans main goal was the OGB.  She is going to play nice with him no matter what he looks like or what his race.  And besides - ugly guys get beautiful girls all the time.  There are many more variables involved other than looks. Plus, if you spent 2 years traveling with Oghren, that might start looking pretty good.

Playing nice =! willing romancing him if she didn't have to.

Remember the Warden can be female and her only way of getting the OGB can be Alistair. She certainly didn't bother to play nice with him. She's banking on the Warden wanting to live enough to sleep with her. Sleeping with him before then is simply a bonus. One that I don't see her going with if she finds him ugly.

...and yeah no. 2 years with Oghren is still just no. Morrigan can seduce a random villager in town if she starts getting that desperate. (Plus she wasn't with the Warden for 2 years).

Ugly guys get beautiful girls when they have money all the time. Warden's pretty damn broke until endgame. And again Morrigan's vain. I could see Leliana with "everyone's beautiful inside if they have a good heart." but Morrigan? Pfft. Only way I see her romancing someone who isn't a top specimen in any way is if she's getting something out of it...and she can get that thing by sleeping with him once. Don't see why she'd do it constantly.

Modifié par Ryzaki, 01 janvier 2012 - 05:59 .

[tmp7704]

jlb524 wrote...

I haven't lied about anything and now I have visual aids!

You've said the thread answered your question with nothing but silence and telling you to shut up. Even though you were actually also given multiple posts which tried to provide you with actual answer, ones which you did acknowledge, with responses you simply couldn't understand that reasoning. So how was your description which omitted that not a lie?

That's why i asked -- because your description was false, it got me curious whether you're knowingly making the stuff up and thought no one would call you out on it, or if you somehow mentally blocked everything that didn't match your interpretation, and genuinely believe your recollection of events is true.

Though at this point the wide-eyed innocence act gets bit too tiresome, so nevermind.