Village Idiot wrote...
Here are two statements where I think major differences reveal themselves to be a part of the debate for some.
Sylvianus wrote...
And please, do not come talk to me, insignificant details like ugly / mage or otherwise, sexuality is an integral part of human identity, something important enough ( otherwise you wouldn't all come to talk here to give your opinion, strong feelings again and again, yes it is important for everyone, so when someone is saying, it isn't important, that seems so hypocritical ) is not something that can be ignored so miserably for me. Especially when the romance are an important part in the characterization of the characters in bioware games.
Well, sure. But it I think the the point is that it shouldn't be important. It's appears to be important culturally (at least in the US) because people make it that way, more importantly, society makes it that way.
In essence, I don't see sexuality as a major component of a person's personality, but due to societal norms and futher deeply held notions of socialization, we (collectively) are taught to see it a major component when it really isn't. This is where part of the fundamental disagreement comes into play. Same sex relationships are prone to rampant discrimination, stereotypical depictions and much derision, but this is emblematic of the core realities. This is what happens to minorities and marginalized peoples. So in essence, it's a false reality, one that is made seemingly important and integral to "personality" as a means to continue to contribute to the further disparagement of those groups. By equating the romances the way that Bioware did in DA2, reduces that false noise and brings to a type of equality that normalizes S/S with heterosexual relationships.
Sylvianus wrote...
But after I want to play S / s guy or female, and feel something that resembles a real relationship between S / S. Less reactivity, less diversity, less realism, character identity ignored, sterile system = bad. .
But what is a real relationship between S/S couples? What differences are you looking for? What's a real relationship between a heterosexual couple look like? Again, I would say that the similarities between the two are a strength because they normalize the gay/lesbian/bi relationships and equate them to being the same as hetero which is a very good thing. In other words, tearing down the notion of "perceived" differences brings about equality and fair representations. The only major difference becomes the gendered aspect of it which is surface and shallow, and we finally get to see s/s couples as being normalized. There is no difference. There is no "real."
1 - This is not the problem. Pretend not to understand why for some people it may be important, it is proof to me of a lack of understanding of how the human mind works.
Sexuality is a basic concept, rooted in people's minds since their childhood, and as I said, the romance of bioware is an important part of the characterization of the characters, reinforcing this logic. Sexuality is noticed every day in daily life, how can we not think that some people find it too unrealistic for them or
have their own preferences ? How they dare ? Or how can we not think that this issue attracts the eye more? It's beyond me lol. I won't say more about it, because that's BS. Obviously, this is something that can be noticed more that the other things. The insignificants details won't change the fact that some things are less insignificants.
The same goes for realism, people are selective. I see people defending all the bi system, saying that its a hight game fantasy, and in the same time they cry because it's not realistic that Isabela is not in armor when she is fighting, or worse, cry because of breathing masks.
I have the honesty to avour as long as it is not too great and it's not too important according to what I see as important for the story, I can accept things unrealistic or not..
what, I'm asking is to stop pretending that it should not be important for others, only for me. This kind of contradictory statement makes no sense, no matter how you turn that.
The system all bi has nothing to do with the representation of minorities, since the system we advocate is that of equality in a system based on diversity. So I do not see why some people talk about losses, it has nothing to do with what is proposed.
The choice is simply between two systems, one with restrictions, another without restrictions. There is no minority to be oppressed in relation to the other. I would like us to stop comparing things that are not comparable.
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2 - Already the simple diversity suggests that I am in front of someone with its own personality, with its own taste, that's totally basic.
Then I play a male with Morrigan, I play I play a male with Leliana, I play a woman with Leliana, I play a man and a woman with Zevran. And I can can totally notice that they reacts differently. and I saw something more.
The system based on all bi, provides the same phrases, the same scenes, the same heartlines. I do not see how it's supposed better provided a sense of responsiveness, reactivity to who I am, according to what i choose. In any case I do not want the worst system even if the other system is not perfect.
With a character totally gay, that responds to my character gay, I can have the unique sentences, cinematic unique, different reactions. It makes all the difference in the perception of what I am playing is taken into account and that the characters have their own tastes and thoughts.
I am confident that M3 will be a great experience. After my first playthroughts, I'll try the S / S with gay characters. And I don't know why but i am already convinced that it will better that what I ever experienced with DA2, totally bland.
Modifié par Sylvianus, 03 janvier 2012 - 08:07 .
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