staindgrey wrote...
If it makes sense and adds to the game, do it. I'll give some examples of how not to do it:
1) If it doesn't make sense for the character. For an example, Ashley in ME1 was very classic Christian, and it's safe to assume that 200 years from now there will still be a large number of Christians who believe homosexuality to be wrong. Ashley gives this impression throughout the game, and only flirts with BroShep, never FemShep. Suddenly making her bi for no reason in ME3 would arguably betray her character.
2) If there is no difference between the sexes. I mean, I get it, people are people and genitals don't matter when it comes to love, yada yada. But no one can honestly tell me that, both physically and vocally, a bi person never treats women differently than men, and vice versa. If we have the option of romancing the same character with either a male or a female PC, then I expect differences (if only subtle) between those encounters. I also expect that LI to give signs that he/she is bi regardless of us romancing him/her, so that it doesn't come off as a straight guy going gay for just my PC. Once again, it feels as though it's betraying the character.
3) If there is no social implication. Look at it this way: In DAII, Hawke can be a lesbian, right? So, her entire family dies off minus one or possibly two people. Wouldn't there be some sort of consequence in the eyes of Kirkwall for the last of the Champion's line to not be able to have a blood heir? Who would inherit the estate? Wouldn't there be people fighting for Hawke's blessings in the very likely chance she dies in battle? Why is everyone indifferent to the fact that their Champion chose to knock boots with a Dalish elf living in the alienage with all the social prowess of a plank of wood? If Hawke is so famous, why does NOBODY have an opinion on her love life?
DAII's romances built individual character interaction, but that was about it. There was so much more that could have been done with eah and every one, and much like the rest of the game, it just fell short. LI's, to me, are a huge waste of potential. Remember the camp in DA:O, when Morrigan and Wynn had very vibrant opinions on your relationship with Leliana? I cracked up when Morrigan bluntly told me (with disgust) that I "wouldn't stop smiling", and I felt an emotional obligation to stand up for Leliana when Wynn questioned whether it was wise to be with her. That never really happened in DAII, outside of some isabela banter that never extended beyond sex jokes.
Anyway, point is, the "bisexual" part of the romance shouldn't be the hot topic. The implementation of the entire LI, regardless of orientation, should. If Anders is only straight but that straight relationship can be more fleshed out, then I'll take it. If Anders is now bi but each side of the romance gets its due, then I'll take that. Compromising one or the other just to please a minor amount of heavily invested fans with a half-hearted copy/paste isn't going to make anybody happier.
I had to reply to this because this is essentially the defense for the outraged massed from the new ME3 will have a choice for everyone. It's such a one sided and basically faulty premise to use.
1) Have you never heard of person changing over time, be it religion, sexuality or finally admitting to a sexuallity they've hidden behind a wall of hate for so long?
A change in a character isn't inheritly a betrayal of that character, it's done in stories all the time of all formats just less so though sexuallity due to social norms and religious prejudice, much lower chance in games due to the number of games that actually have romances as an avialable feature and again due to there long standing image that most gamers are striaght 14-20 year olds which is only now being broke down.
So don't automatically write off changes as bad things, it depends how it's done, come back and use that example as a valid complaint when in ME3 she is magically bi with no reason or hint of story given.
Besides whats more of a betrayal to fans, your example or the fact Kaiden was meant to be an option to romance as a man as hinted at by in game files but was most likely abandoned because they were too scared of the fallout of a gay man in a fantasy, of course interspecies "lesbian" sex being completely different.
2) All romances including the sexual scenes are identical? Oh come on, it's not even worth arguing with it's just such a completely obsurd observation. I will leave one thing there though, dungeons are rehashed due to time and hardware constraints, any simalarities between those scence are essentially down to not wanted to re-record a line just to change a single word.
On the last part, no, just no, see the first part of my last counter add to that people exist who believe themselves exclusively straight or gay but will meet one person of the opposite gender they'd usually go for which will shake that belief to the core.
3) When is it implied the Champions children will be magical? Or do you believe the people of kirkwall are just dying to get back into lines of inherited power rather then earned for great deeds?
Aside from that its the same issue of time/cost vs effect, how worthwhile would it be to have hoardes of npcs commenting that you can't have children (even though nothing is preventing it, it's just the matter of finding another to aide you there) and throwing thier daughters on your male character begging you to procreate with them?
Essensially calling romances shallow = Yeah, how about looking at the winner of several game of the year awards for 2011, Skyrim, now come back and tell me it's shallow poorly fleshed out feature, if you still want to argue that Skyrim has been on/off development for about 5 years, DA II has just 2 years. Even when the same engine was placed in completely new hands a better result in romances was achieved even if it never got that far.
You never had more then sexual inneuendo? When in a romance with anders you are given the chance to defend the relationship and him from varric, and forgive me but it has been a while I believe fenris has something to add, on top of that I believe you have the similar situation with Isabella from Aveline and one for Merril from Anders. In fact I believe all of them have an example that you found exclusively in DA:O.
I've already tackled most of this final part at various points, the romances aren't that poorly done and show no to little sign of decay for being bi, it's unreasonable to expect a complete different outcome from a romance of the same character solely on your gender being changed and expecting it to react to race, morality, religion and every other tiny detial is completely unreasonable.
I got the impression you'd be happy is Anders became exclusively straight already, even if you contradict your first point completely, but then again I'm guessing you are not interesting in persuing that romance story even just to experience it, as you haven't. It's funny really how much you want things to be different in content you don't even seem interested in experiencing.
Your last line even contradicts itself "please a small amount of fans" "won't make anyone happier", strange when I was "please"d to have the option in DA 2 I was oddly made "happy", funny how that works. Although if done right the change in character may not be a disservice to them, it will be a disservice to fans of the game, just for the few outspoken ones that think thier eyes will melt if they even hear a suggestion of homosexuallity (m/m only though).
Two things just to add seperately.
1) Considering the amount of characters you can't interact or romance with having every member of the party being bi isn't so bizarre. But let's not make sweeping generalization to make it seem worse, not every party member is Bi. Besides that it's a game that takes place on a fictional world, maybe being Bi is actually the "norm" and Sebastian and co. are the odd ones out. Clearly not meant to be the case but still talking about realism for a game like this for the sake of removing options for many is inane.
2) Don't make the Anders mistake again, I want to see him again sure and as he is, nor do I think s/s romances should be hidden out of sight to avoid offending certain groups with the mear suggestion. But don't leave people the choice to flirt or turn someone down in a jerk manner only, you should always be given the option to say "Thanks for the flattery but I'm not like that" something along the lines of Sorry but I'm not like that is probally best avoided due to it being apologetic for being striaght/gay etc.
Retour en haut
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Even in DA2 it mentioned no queen, just that the Warden had returned so they had to go.
