1113 réponses à ce sujet

[Alex_SM]

Estel78 wrote...

The Witcher 2 might be a tad bigger (i'm waiting for the xbox version to play it) but it's nowhere near an Elder Scrolls. Dragon Age was even bigger than Witcher 2, at least in playing hours. I remember people finishing Witcher 2 in like 35 hours and being kinda disappointed that it was quite a bit shorter than the first.

I'm not talking about hours of play, but about the size of the world, the freedom, the size of the evironments. In Bioware games evironments are becoming smaller then they where in previous BW games. DA:O is bigger than both ME, DA2, DA:Awakening and It'll probably be bigger than ME:3. 

But still, CDProject had a budget of 10M, it was a cheap game compared to those released by major labels.  I've read DA2 budget was around 25 millions and ME2 above 40 millions. 

Edit: Yeah, it was made in Poland, so what? CDProject are Polish. 

I don't think it has anything to do with wages or something like that. In major label games lots of times theres a really low efficient use of money. Need for Speed games for example are extremely expensive, even those average in every aspect of the game. 

Maybe people outside major labels are not so hurry to reach deadlines, so they could use smaller teams and use more time in the development. Metro 2033, for example, was a really low budget game, and technically is awesome, one of the best ever made. Same goes for Stalker, which is extremely ambitious (and the final release is less than the previous builds), or the first Crysis. 

Modifié par Alex_SM, 31 décembre 2011 - 09:18 .

[Estel78]

Another thing to keep in mind, Bioware games have a much more cinematic feel, the characters are much more expressive, the dialogs have a film like quality, whereas in Elder Scrolls it all looks a bit clunky and primitive. I know there are a few people who would rather go back to isometric view and sprites but in my humble opinion, those production values actually do help immerse you more into a story.

[Estel78]

jreezy wrote...

No, it's not.

Great argument.

[Alex_SM]

It may be hard in a TES-scale game, but last two BW games are smaller than the first ME, and they seem to become smaller and more streamlined in the future.

[Estel78]

Alex_SM wrote...

I don't think it has anything to do with wages

It has everything to do with wages. But i agree that probably there's a way to be a tad more efficient, same goes for movies, which cost ridiculous amounts of money. But it's not like you could halve the budget, they are not that stupid and wasteful, i don't think so.

Yes, Witcher has more open locations but again, i was not arguing about whether Bioware games could have bigger environments, the topic was an Elder Scrolls type game with Bioware characters and storytelling.

[Gatt9]

Redcoat wrote...

Didn't someone do a tally of review scores for titles released by major publishers, and found out that scores generally fell into the 80-100 range, while games published by smaller companies got the full 0-100 range?

I mean, look at the PS3 version of Skyrim; it shipped with glaring performance issues, and yet it has an average rating of 92 from the "professional" critics, and 5.2 from users.

Yes,  they did,  it was right after DA2's release,  and IIRC it was prompted by the 10/10's DA2 received.  The findings were that major publisher's scores fall in the 50-100 range with the majority in the 80-100,  while smaller companies use the full 0-100.

I'm actually contemplating doing a similiar statistical analysis,  with a cross-reference against the user scores.  But if I do it,  it's with an eye towards forwarding it to the FTC and congressmen with the hopes of initiating a investigation of violations of the Payola laws.

Payola, in the American music industry, is the illegal practice of payment or other inducement by record companies for the broadcast of recordings on music radio in which the song is presented as being part of the normal day's broadcast. Under U.S. law, 47 U.S.C. § 317, a radio station can play a specific song in exchange for money, but this must be disclosed on the air as being sponsored airtime, and that play of the song should not be counted as a "regular airplay".
The term has come to refer to any secret payment made to cast a product in a favorable light (such as obtaining positive reviews).

Which I feel the majority of the gaming industry is now deeply in violation.  The process of exachanging favorable reviews for preferential treatment would likely be found to violate the laws,  especially since the preferential treatment is done for financial gain.

My only major issue is I'm not sure one man can do the job of sifting all of the data.

[Gatt9]

Sgt Stryker wrote...

This. It's highly likely that TOR's user score is saturated with nonsense data.

Strange that you say that,  I've been checking it daily to see what's happening with it.  2 days ago there were a bunch of 10/10 user reviews where the review text read "%d" spammed through it.

[Sgt Stryker]

Gatt9 wrote...

Sgt Stryker wrote...

This. It's highly likely that TOR's user score is saturated with nonsense data.

Strange that you say that,  I've been checking it daily to see what's happening with it.  2 days ago there were a bunch of 10/10 user reviews where the review text read "%d" spammed through it.

At the same time there are quite a few 0/10 "reviews" which aren't reviews at all, but "protests". I also noticed that many of the negative reviews are skewed much closer to the Dec. 20 release date, than present time. Based on the limited exposure these reviewers would have had, I'd say those reviews have as much value as the official media reviews (read: none whatsoever). It's a double-edged sword, really.

Not that any of these ratings matter to me of course, as I already own the game and am enjoying every minute of it. 

[argonian persona]

EternalAmbiguity wrote...

To OP:
I love Skyrim. I've got a bit over 100 hours so far, and plenty more to do. And I hate, HATE the direction ME is headed.

But comparing the two is senseless. Nowhere in Skyrim will I have the chance to help a woman save her younger sister from their father, and learn all about their backstory. Nowhere in Skyrim will I have the chance to meet someone like Jack, and have the choice to reject her or try to help her. No where in Skyrim will I feel my humanity like in ME: In Skyrim, I'm somehow the leader of the Theives, the Listener for the assassins of demonic/daedric (Sithis) origins, the leader of the most famous fighting guild, and the arch-mage of the only magical university, along with being able to absorb the souls of dragons. It's absurd. In ME, I'm...a man.

The two games have such different focuses that you can't compare them.

Your post is good, and overall fair.

Don't forget Sheogorath, though

[argonian persona]

Alex_SM wrote...

It may be hard in a TES-scale game, but last two BW games are smaller than the first ME, and they seem to become smaller and more streamlined in the future.

You're right. But the reason is two-fold:

1. It's what shooter fans want
2. It's cheaper for EA

[aridor1570]

Gatt9 wrote...

Sgt Stryker wrote...

This. It's highly likely that TOR's user score is saturated with nonsense data.

Strange that you say that,  I've been checking it daily to see what's happening with it.  2 days ago there were a bunch of 10/10 user reviews where the review text read "%d" spammed through it.

I was checking Metacritic an hour after the game was available for scoring, it was "Bombed" by bad reviews, and when someone wrote something good someone else came in and just insulted the guy.

This is, as I've said, something that has been going on for years in the MMO market.

Modifié par aridor1570, 31 décembre 2011 - 11:42 .

[AtreiyaN7]

argonian persona wrote...

Alex_SM wrote...

It may be hard in a TES-scale game, but last two BW games are smaller than the first ME, and they seem to become smaller and more streamlined in the future.

You're right. But the reason is two-fold:

1. It's what shooter fans want
2. It's cheaper for EA

I happen to be a shooter fan and an RPG fan. I don't believe that I've ever expressed a desire for any dev to make shorter games with smaller worlds and/or less complexity (or with lame 24-like single-player campaigns a la BF3). *snort*

In trying to draw in fans fom a certain demographic, I'm sure that he company has made/will make some changes based on what they think might appeal to people. This is not the same as making it sound like shooter fans demanded all these things that you, presumably, don't like.

[Someone With Mass]

argonian persona wrote...

Alex_SM wrote...

It may be hard in a TES-scale game, but last two BW games are smaller than the first ME, and they seem to become smaller and more streamlined in the future.

You're right. But the reason is two-fold:

1. It's what shooter fans want
2. It's cheaper for EA

Keep telling yourself that.

Considering that they've had two studios working on ME3, I don't think they'll be doing it cheap.

Not to mention that the large scale environments in ME1 became such a bore after the first playthrough. Just a color swap with nothing really unique, besides the main quest planets.

[1136342t54_]

Estel78 wrote...

jreezy wrote...

No, it's not.

Great argument.

To be honest the only limit is resources it doesn't have to be mutually exclusive. 

[1136342t54_]

Someone With Mass wrote...

argonian persona wrote...

Alex_SM wrote...

It may be hard in a TES-scale game, but last two BW games are smaller than the first ME, and they seem to become smaller and more streamlined in the future.

You're right. But the reason is two-fold:

1. It's what shooter fans want
2. It's cheaper for EA

Keep telling yourself that.

Considering that they've had two studios working on ME3, I don't think they'll be doing it cheap.

Not to mention that the large scale environments in ME1 became such a bore after the first playthrough. Just a color swap with nothing really unique, besides the main quest planets.

ME1 only seemed big due to its large but empty planets. ME2 is bigger to me. 

[rabidhanar]

While we all look at the world in our own specially designed tinted glasses, I must express my own feelings on this topic. Skyrim as a whole is mediocre, in my humble opinion, with only a select few things that work well in it.

Scale: All of TES games have this to some degree, just point yourself in one direction and off you go. Throughout Morrowind, Oblivion, and Skyrim I have found myself spending endless hours simply walking across the landscape. It feels amazing with so few rehashed areas to visit: Walking the Coasts, through the sewers, over mountains, Swimming through rivers and even small seas. Every once in a while, you turn the corner and there is some mystical new discovery to explore; the world just feels so impressive. This, of course, goes with the territory of a sandbox gaming style.

Could Mass Effect 3 use this as a stepping stone to enhance it's own experience? By all means yes. I would love to see more fleshing out of the planets in ME3: Increasing the size of hub zones, add more variety and uniqueness to each world. I want a Citadel that seems like a CITY for once in this series. Introductory Scene to the Citadel in ME1 with Shepard and Company, I was shocked for the sheer size of the station. Sad that such a large place ended up only having a few floors to explore.

The Blank Slate: This is the story of Ser Lumpkins, ex-Mass Murderer, formerly a member of the Mages Guild, and now renowned Arena Champion. With fez exceptions, your history can be whatever you choose to be. In Oblivion, all I knew about my Pink Haired brute of an Orc was that he was in prison. So I figured that he he had gotten drunk one night, partied with a merry group of wood elves in the forest, stripped stark naked At noon, and consequently streaked across the streets in the merchant sector of Imperial City while singing a ballad about the Emperor's Wife. Why did I do this? Because I could, why else? Up to and including in the gameplay, I could shape my character in the way I wished within reason. Sure, I was suggested to deal with the Emperor's Will and the introduction of chaotic warps disrupting the peace and comfort of this land, but more importantly, there was a lake near the city! I lived my merry early days as a mud crab farmer: diving underwater, finding my livelihood beneath the waves, shooting my quarry with iron arrows, plundering the meat from the corpse, then turning the meat into potions I could sell. My Level 3 figure had Merchantile rank 31, Alchemy rank 27, Archery rank 36, and speechcraft rank 19. It was fun, it was different, and it was an unexpected choice.

Could ME3 use this? Unlikely. We are Commander Shepard, hero of the citadel and destroyer of the Reaper Soveriegn. Our history is already written here, though We were able to somewhat influence our past. The character creator, while limited, did at least give use some little choices. Multiplayer characters are unlikely to have any story at all besides the whole kill X reaper creatures here. They are as blank slate as you can get them, you can make up anything you wish before you start the game. Therefore I shall have a pacifistic Krogan who believes in love and harmony until the excrement impacts the oscillating metal intake system forces him to pick up an omni tool and freeze all his opponents in their tracks.

[Inspectre]

EternalAmbiguity wrote...
No where in Skyrim will I feel my humanity like in ME: In Skyrim, I'm somehow the leader of the Theives, the Listener for the assassins of demonic/daedric (Sithis) origins, the leader of the most famous fighting guild, and the arch-mage of the only magical university, along with being able to absorb the souls of dragons. It's absurd. In ME, I'm...a man.

With godlike power to influence people.  Also, he died and came back to life, completely unfazed.  How do you associate humanity with that?

didymos1120 wrote...
No, it was not:

http://en.wikipedia....ki/Cover_system

So basiclly Kill.Switch was.  My mistake.

didymos1120 wrote...

I disagree.  That's clearly an aspect of the post-Arkham City era.

But isn't it empirical proof that an rpg doesn't need lame, tacked-on multiplayer to sell immensely well?

ps: I'm not totally against multiplayer in ME.

Modifié par Dragon XIX, 01 janvier 2012 - 02:01 .

[argonian persona]

Someone With Mass wrote...

argonian persona wrote...

Alex_SM wrote...

It may be hard in a TES-scale game, but last two BW games are smaller than the first ME, and they seem to become smaller and more streamlined in the future.

You're right. But the reason is two-fold:

1. It's what shooter fans want
2. It's cheaper for EA

Keep telling yourself that.

Considering that they've had two studios working on ME3, I don't think they'll be doing it cheap.

Not to mention that the large scale environments in ME1 became such a bore after the first playthrough. Just a color swap with nothing really unique, besides the main quest planets.

So improvements can be made to combat, and not to that?

[Dean_the_Young]

The exploration of vast empty square miles of mountains was a resource sink. While scenic views had their moments, removing the Mako exploration areas and putting scenic views in specific places WAS their improvement.

[AtreiyaN7]

Dean_the_Young wrote...

The exploration of vast empty square miles of mountains was a resource sink. While scenic views had their moments, removing the Mako exploration areas and putting scenic views in specific places WAS their improvement.

Exploration is great if there are actually interesting things to find and interesting quests/experiences. For the most part, the ME1 planets weren't interesting to me after a certain amount of repetition. How many times is driving across a planet to find a silly probe THAT interesting? I lost interest and became irritated by all the wall-climbing on certain worlds once I realized that finding lost probes and useless mineral nodes, etc. were the extent of what I'd be doing. Personally, I preferred the ME2 N7 missions which at least had more of a point with some kind of story behind them andd/or more visually interesting locations. If they ever manage to combine aspects of exploration with some sort of nominally interesting plot or goal a la the N7 missions, I'd be interested.