1113 réponses à ce sujet

[CrazyRah]

f1r3storm wrote...

Meh, Bethesda still has lots to learn in terms of an interesting storytelling and staging. BioWare is far superior there.

And Skyrim is far from perfect at all, for example with it's antiquated combat system.

Ottemis wrote...

...

I'll prolly thank my lucky stars ME3 won't be half as bugged as Skyrim is. Other then that comparing the two would seem completely useless, and a waste of time.

I'm quoting both since they're so true

[Massefeckt]

They are two very different games. As much as I have enjoyed Skyrim there isn't a single character I care about in the game, It's a great world to wander around in and have some adventures(until you get an arrow in the knee) but the characters are all cardboard cut outs with no personality. The Mass Effect games(at least so far) are all about getting to know and love the characters and the way you interact with them to explore a story. Skyrim doesn't have that.

[the almighty moo]

Well o never had a Skyrim era mainly because Skyrim bored the bejesus out of me and I STOPPED PLAYING IT.

the last bit was a mistake with caps but I thought I'd leave it as is anyway

[Thoth_Amon]

Personally, I'd be more interested in Bioware designing an rpg that isn't "intro level-->3-4 hub worlds-->end game."

[crimzontearz]

Thoth_Amon wrote...
Personally, I'd be more interested in Bioware designing an rpg that isn't "intro level-->3-4 hub worlds-->end game."

I'm 100% OK with that

[Inspectre]

Gatt9 wrote...

But I guess that's what happens when you waste your budget rendering paint brushes and forks for no reason,  instead of actually using your budget to make a game.

Regardless, Skyrim has sold twice as many copies as Mass Effect 2, even with it's 1 and a half year lead.

Gatt9 wrote...
I'm confident that if it weren't for the fact that 99.9% of the other games released today are all shooters,  we wouldn't even be talking about Skyrim.

7 of IGNs 20 Biggest Games of Fall are shooters.

Modifié par Dragon XIX, 01 janvier 2012 - 10:49 .

[Inspectre]

Cthulhu42 wrote...

MW3 has sold substantially more than both combined; I don't see what sales figures have to do with anything.

ME 2 and Skyrim have no multiplayer component and are considered RPGs.  I was pointing out that Bioware will not ignore Skyrim, even though some of it's fanbase obviously will.

You do help make the point of online multiplayer.  I'd say that it is because of the success of games like Call of Duty and Halo that we are seeing multiplayer everywhere now.  Which isn't a bad thing, necessarily.

Modifié par Dragon XIX, 02 janvier 2012 - 12:10 .

[best_eva]

argonian persona wrote...

I'm new to these forums, but I have been a Mass Effect fan for a long time and have very large concerns for this game. It looks rather like a pure third-person shooter with very limited exploration, narrow and linear environments and simplistic 'press X, go to Y' gameplay. I have stayed clear of spoilers to this point, but I must say I'm very disappointed about what I see and is known sofar, so much so I have held off preordering (once seemingly an impossible notion to me) and will wait a bit before purchase. Multiplayer also has me frustrated.

Am I alone in this? I'm new here, but alot on here seem content with this game, and it doesn't really look that good, to be frank.

3840 Lincoln hwy east, Lancaster, pa 17601 this is your address correct? 

[Earl_of_Albion]

argonian old boy, it's clear that you think Skyrim is the mutts nuts, well good on you, you crack on with it sunshine, have a blast and cane that bad boy.

ME3 isn't going to be Skyrim, it doesn't need to be, why would you want it to?

ME2 did what it did and in my opinion did it well, Skyrim does what it does and in my opinion is a little flawed. But it just that, my opinion

I got Skyrim because I want a epic fantasy rpg, I'm getting ME3 becasue I want to end a glorious Space Oprea.

One has no bearing on the other and it seems a little silly to me to create an issue between the two when there isn't one.

[Alex_SM]

Dragon XIX wrote...

Gatt9 wrote...

But I guess that's what happens when you waste your budget rendering paint brushes and forks for no reason,  instead of actually using your budget to make a game.

Regardless, Skyrim has sold twice as many copies as Mass Effect 2, even with it's 1 and a half year lead.

Gatt9 wrote...
I'm confident that if it weren't for the fact that 99.9% of the other games released today are all shooters,  we wouldn't even be talking about Skyrim.

7 of IGNs 20 Biggest Games of Fall are shooters.

Don't take VGChartz charts too seriously. They don't take into account digital sales and lots of their PC data is plain wrong. 

And, if we look also at digital sales, the breach between Skyrim and ME2 is probably bigger. Skyrim is being a huge success through steam. Nearly everyday is the mos played game, sometimes doubling the number of players of MW3 multiplayer and SP combined. 

I bet actual sales of Skyrim are probably around 11 millions. 

[Someone With Mass]

And sales matters why, exactly?

People can still buy some incredibly dumb and bad things and give the creators money to make more of it.

Twilight is a prime example of this.

[best_eva]

ok this guy tries to act polite but he just sent me this threat,
"Im a Marine. I fought in Iraq. I've shot guys like you before breakfast. Lol. I just love ruffling your feathers!!! It's so funny.

I'm going to continue to post my thoughts, and if you don't like it, tough ****!!

Like little guy. Just embrace the post-Skyrim era."

Modifié par best_eva, 02 janvier 2012 - 12:28 .

[Alex_SM]

I don't get why some people spend so much energy denying Skyrim's impact. It's been huge, both in users and reviewers attitude. Even if the game follows the typical Bethesda formula, this time the reception is different. There wasn't so much fuzz about Oblivion, Fallout 3 or Morrowind. 

You may or not like it (I didn't played it), but it's most likely to change some things in games. The same way as Gears of Wars changed some things, Halo changed some things or COD changed some things.

You may care or not about sales, but around 10-11 million copies sold in less than 2 months is freaking madness.

Modifié par Alex_SM, 02 janvier 2012 - 12:38 .

[N7Raider]

Alex_SM wrote...

I don't get why some people spend so much energy denying Skyrim's impact. It's been huge, both in users and reviewers attitude. Even if the game follows the typical Bethesda formula, this time the reception is different. There wasn't so much fuzz about Oblivion, Fallout 3 or Morrowind. 

You may or not like it (I didn't played it), but it's most likely to change some things in games. The same way as Gears of Wars changed some things, Halo changed some things or COD changed some things.

You may care or not about sales, but around 10-11 million copies sold in less than 2 months is freaking madness.

It did not sell 10-11 million you are making a greatly overly exagerated assumption.  No Skyrim will not make an impact, if it was going to make an impact the results of that impact would've been seen years ago when Oblivion came out, seeing as they're exactly the same thing.  The gameplay is a step backward from other rpg/hack n slash games, the graphics are abysmal, there is no innovation in this game like there was with the original GoW, Halo CE or CoD 4.  

Modifié par N7Raider, 02 janvier 2012 - 12:48 .

[Alex_SM]

N7Raider wrote...

It did not sell 10-11 million you are making a greatly overly exagerated assumption.  No Skyrim will not make an impact, if it was going to make an impact the results of that impact would've been seen years ago when Oblivion came out, seeing as they're exactly the same thing.  The gameplay is a step backward from other rpg/hack n slash games, the graphics are abysmal, there is no innovation in this game like there was with the original GoW.  

VGChartz usually has more or less valid Console sales, and claims around 7,5 millions of units sold. Then it says 1,6 millions of units in PC, but they don't take into account digital sales (at least 1 million more), and they usually fall short while measuring PC boxed units. 

Also is reported to sold 3,5 million units in the first two days. 10 millions of retail units shipped are confirmed by Bethesda (and that was one week before christmas), and Valve stated is the fastest selling game ever in Steam. 

http://www.eurogamer...n-steam-history

So between 10-11 millions of units sold combining XBOX+PS3+PC+PC digital seems very reasonable. Actual sales may even be higher (depending in total digital sales, which are not published). 

It doesn't matter if you (or I) like it or not. It doesn't matter if it innovates or not or if it's technically outstanding or awful.  It will influence future games. 

Modifié par Alex_SM, 02 janvier 2012 - 12:57 .

[N7Raider]

Alex_SM wrote...

N7Raider wrote...

It did not sell 10-11 million you are making a greatly overly exagerated assumption.  No Skyrim will not make an impact, if it was going to make an impact the results of that impact would've been seen years ago when Oblivion came out, seeing as they're exactly the same thing.  The gameplay is a step backward from other rpg/hack n slash games, the graphics are abysmal, there is no innovation in this game like there was with the original GoW.  

VGChartz usually has more or less valid Console sales, and claims around 7,5 millions of units sold. Then it says 1,6 millions of units in PC, but they don't take into account digital sales (at least 1 million more), and they usually fall short while measuring PC boxed units. 

Also is reported to sold 3,5 million units in the first two days. 10 millions of retail units shipped are confirmed by Bethesda (and that was one week before christmas), and Valve stated is the fastest selling game ever in Steam. 

http://www.eurogamer...n-steam-history

So between 10-11 millions of units sold combining XBOX+PS3+PC+PC digital seems very reasonable. Actual sales may even be higher (depending in total digital sales, which are not published). 

It doesn't matter if you (or I) like it or not. It doesn't matter if it innovates or not or if it's technically outstanding or awful.  It will influence future games. 

how can it influence future games if it changed nothing?  Would GoW had influenced anything had it not revolutionized cover systems?  Not likely.  Would Halo CE had influenced anything had it not perfected FPS controls on consoles?  Of course not.  So how is that Skyrim can revolutionize rpgs when it stuck to a dated formula and changed nothing?  And as for digital sales you're still making assumptions, if you mean pirated than yes it's likely it's over 1 million but you are making assumptions, vgchartz claims that many number of units sold over 3 platforms and doesn't take into account trade ins, multiple purchases etc.  Also as others have brought up we don't use sales as an indication of quality.  

[argonian persona]

Alex_SM wrote...

N7Raider wrote...

It did not sell 10-11 million you are making a greatly overly exagerated assumption.  No Skyrim will not make an impact, if it was going to make an impact the results of that impact would've been seen years ago when Oblivion came out, seeing as they're exactly the same thing.  The gameplay is a step backward from other rpg/hack n slash games, the graphics are abysmal, there is no innovation in this game like there was with the original GoW.  

VGChartz usually has more or less valid Console sales, and claims around 7,5 millions of units sold. Then it says 1,6 millions of units in PC, but they don't take into account digital sales (at least 1 million more), and they usually fall short while measuring PC boxed units. 

Also is reported to sold 3,5 million units in the first two days. 10 millions of retail units shipped are confirmed by Bethesda (and that was one week before christmas), and Valve stated is the fastest selling game ever in Steam. 

http://www.eurogamer...n-steam-history

So between 10-11 millions of units sold combining XBOX+PS3+PC+PC digital seems very reasonable. Actual sales may even be higher (depending in total digital sales, which are not published). 

It doesn't matter if you (or I) like it or not. It doesn't matter if it innovates or not or if it's technically outstanding or awful.  It will influence future games. 

That was interesting information.

I personally don't want Mass Effect to become TES. Arguments of storytelling, characterization, etc is of course right. In fact, for me, playing the original Mass Effect was like playing video games for the first time. I just think there are things ME should take from Skyrim and implement into the formula. Mainly open world planet exploration making massive improvements from how it was done in the original ME (even though I as a whole thoroughly enjoyed it). Make environments "that" detailed. Make exclusive hidden loot or upgrades hidden on planets only obtainable at those hidden spots. Possibly institute or look at the possibility of perks.

[N7Raider]

argonian persona wrote...

Alex_SM wrote...

N7Raider wrote...

It did not sell 10-11 million you are making a greatly overly exagerated assumption.  No Skyrim will not make an impact, if it was going to make an impact the results of that impact would've been seen years ago when Oblivion came out, seeing as they're exactly the same thing.  The gameplay is a step backward from other rpg/hack n slash games, the graphics are abysmal, there is no innovation in this game like there was with the original GoW.  

VGChartz usually has more or less valid Console sales, and claims around 7,5 millions of units sold. Then it says 1,6 millions of units in PC, but they don't take into account digital sales (at least 1 million more), and they usually fall short while measuring PC boxed units. 

Also is reported to sold 3,5 million units in the first two days. 10 millions of retail units shipped are confirmed by Bethesda (and that was one week before christmas), and Valve stated is the fastest selling game ever in Steam. 

http://www.eurogamer...n-steam-history

So between 10-11 millions of units sold combining XBOX+PS3+PC+PC digital seems very reasonable. Actual sales may even be higher (depending in total digital sales, which are not published). 

It doesn't matter if you (or I) like it or not. It doesn't matter if it innovates or not or if it's technically outstanding or awful.  It will influence future games. 

That was interesting information.

I personally don't want Mass Effect to become TES. Arguments of storytelling, characterization, etc is of course right. In fact, for me, playing the original Mass Effect was like playing video games for the first time. I just think there are things ME should take from Skyrim and implement into the formula. Mainly open world planet exploration making massive improvements from how it was done in the original ME (even though I as a whole thoroughly enjoyed it). Make environments "that" detailed. Make exclusive hidden loot or upgrades hidden on planets only obtainable at those hidden spots. Possibly institute or look at the possibility of perks.

do you ever stop contradicting youself?  You say you don't want ME to become TES but the previous pages of text completely disagree with that notion.  

Modifié par N7Raider, 02 janvier 2012 - 01:58 .

[mkk316]

argonian persona wrote...

That was interesting information.

I personally don't want Mass Effect to become TES. Arguments of storytelling, characterization, etc is of course right. In fact, for me, playing the original Mass Effect was like playing video games for the first time. I just think there are things ME should take from Skyrim and implement into the formula. Mainly open world planet exploration making massive improvements from how it was done in the original ME (even though I as a whole thoroughly enjoyed it). Make environments "that" detailed. Make exclusive hidden loot or upgrades hidden on planets only obtainable at those hidden spots. Possibly institute or look at the possibility of perks.

I kind of agree with the more loot idea, I'd like more amor bits, weapons, even pattern choices(dont know how you discover something like that).  But the open world thing i dont get how it would work in a game like ME with so many planets.  Unless you mean exploration with a vehicle like ME 1.

[Alex_SM]

N7Raider wrote...
how can it influence future games if it changed nothing?  Would GoW had influenced anything had it not revolutionized cover systems?  Not likely.  Would Halo CE had influenced anything had it not perfected FPS controls on consoles?  Of course not.  So how is that Skyrim can revolutionize rpgs when it stuck to a dated formula and changed nothing?  And as for digital sales you're still making assumptions, if you mean pirated than yes it's likely it's over 1 million but you are making assumptions, vgchartz claims that many number of units sold over 3 platforms and doesn't take into account trade ins, multiple purchases etc.  Also as others have brought up we don't use sales as an indication of quality.  

Digital sales nowadays are around 50% of PC gaming market (and I'm talking about sales, not piracy), look at any detailed  games report (Newzoo have really good ones). And Valve (Steam owners) is telling Skyrim is their biggest oppening ever, so more than one million is a really safe bet.  

The 10 million boxed units shipped is not something made up, is official word from Bethesda. 

I'm not talking about quality (I already said I didn't played Skyrim, don't know how good or bad it is), but the impact of the game. A game doesn't need to be a good game to influence everything (as COD saga is doing everyday, for example). It just needs sell gazillions of copies to make everyone else rip-off their formula.  

That formula may not be new, may be the same Bethesda is being using for the last 10 years, but is different from everyone elses formula. Bethesda's approach on gaming is special. There are no Bethesda-like games out there. The closest thing I can think about is Stalker, but still are far from each other. 

You can call it dated, you may hate it, but numbers say gamers like it. It's being awarded Game of the Year everywhere, both by reviewers and readers, it's selling an insane amount of copies (much more than Oblivion) and it's making people everywhere wonder why the rest of the games are always made up of narrow corridors. 

This has the potential to be a game-changer. Time will tell, but it looks so. 

PD: VGChartz's data is wrong in lots of games. Most PC data is completely wrong. 

PD2: Cover system of Gears of War is not revolutionary. It's really well implemented, but during the previous  years quite a few games used really similar systems. GOW just sold millions and millions of copies. And that's the reason everyone rips-off GOW and not Kill Switch (2003) or Ghost Recon Advanced Warfighter (some months before GOW), or Rainbow Six: Vegas (same month as GOW), etc... the sales. 

[shepskisaac]

Alex_SM wrote...

PD: VGChartz's data is wrong in lots of games. Most PC data is completely wrong.

Of course VGChartz ain't perfect, far from it. But if they say a game sold 3 million, then it means it didn't sell 1 million or 5 million. They do get & base part of their numbers from official national sales charts (NPD, Media Crates Sales etc) and data straight from the publishers, so it's not like they pull out those numbers outta ass. And as a comprehensive database for worldwide game sales numbers people can use, there's no one else but them.

[Shotokanguy]

I feel I should mention that Skyrim isn't getting as much criticism as it deserves - its narrative is so disappointingly shallow that I'm actually angry more people aren't talking about it's failures. It deserves praise for how easily you can lose yourself in the world - but it's a lot easier to forget you're playing a video game when you're talking to people in Mass Effect.

Talking to people in Skyrim feels like an obligation, not a privilege.

[Gatt9]

Alex_SM wrote...

Dragon XIX wrote...

Gatt9 wrote...

But I guess that's what happens when you waste your budget rendering paint brushes and forks for no reason,  instead of actually using your budget to make a game.

Regardless, Skyrim has sold twice as many copies as Mass Effect 2, even with it's 1 and a half year lead.

Gatt9 wrote...
I'm confident that if it weren't for the fact that 99.9% of the other games released today are all shooters,  we wouldn't even be talking about Skyrim.

7 of IGNs 20 Biggest Games of Fall are shooters.

Don't take VGChartz charts too seriously. They don't take into account digital sales and lots of their PC data is plain wrong. 

And, if we look also at digital sales, the breach between Skyrim and ME2 is probably bigger. Skyrim is being a huge success through steam. Nearly everyday is the mos played game, sometimes doubling the number of players of MW3 multiplayer and SP combined. 

I bet actual sales of Skyrim are probably around 11 millions. 

I'm very doubtful on that.  Bethseda made all kinds of noise about 4.6 million units with Fallout 3 when it released...

October 2008 - Fallout 3 (X360) - 375k
November 2008 - Fallout 3 (X360) - [184k - 297k]
December 2008 < 480k,  amount unknown
January 2009 - < 113k (It ranked lower than the lowest reported game)

The PS3 never registered on the NPD reports,  nor did the PC.  So you can do math on those by considering them to be less than the lowest reported game for the month (Generally speaking it'll be less than 100k).  But what you end up with is a optimistic high end of around 1.6 to 2.0 million. 

You've gotta be real careful around Bethseda numbers,  this is how they worked when NPD reported sales.  Imagine how they work now that we can't see them.

@DragonXIX,  I really expected better of you than to cherry-pick one season,  cherry-pick a short list of 20 games,  and try to use it as a counter-arguement.  Reality is,  if you go get the list of everything released in 2011 you get a completely different output.

[Alex_SM]

IsaacShep wrote...

Alex_SM wrote...

PD: VGChartz's data is wrong in lots of games. Most PC data is completely wrong.

Of course VGChartz ain't perfect, far from it. But if they say a game sold 3 million, then it means it didn't sell 1 million or 5 million. They do get & base part of their numbers from official national sales charts (NPD, Media Crates Sales etc) and data straight from the publishers, so it's not like they pull out those numbers outta ass. And as a comprehensive database for worldwide game sales numbers people can use, there's no one else but them.

It's easy to give a few examples where they miss by huge amounts.

Crysis (PC)

VGChartz says: 650.000 units.
Crytek says: 3 million units.

The Witcher 2 (PC)

VGChartz says: 670.000 units.
CDProject says: 1 million boxed units reported on August

The Witcher (PC)

VGChartz says: 10.000 units
CDProject says: 1,4 Millions.

Portal 2 (PC)

VGCHart says: 520.000 units
Valve says: More than Xbox and PS3 sales combined (which means over 2,5 millions)

Half Life 2 (PC)

VGChartz says: 4,1 Millions
Valve says: 12 millions


Also they admit not taking into account digital sales, which is like ignoring 40-50% of PC market (for reference http://www.newzoo.com/)

Modifié par Alex_SM, 02 janvier 2012 - 02:32 .