1113 réponses à ce sujet

[argonian persona]

ArkkAngel007 wrote...

argonian persona wrote...

I found this quote interesting from Dr. Ray Muzyka:

"(The next Dragon Age) is gonna have the best of features from prior Dragon Age games, but it's also gonna have a lot of things I think players are going to find compelling from some of the games that are out now that are doing really well with more of an open world feel. We're checking (Skyrim) out aggressively. We like it. We're big admirers of (Bethesda) and the product. We think we can do some wonderful things."

http://m.wired.com/g...2/dragon-age-3/


This is an interesting quote, although it seemingly isn't good for DA fans who dislike Bethesda and open world games. I'm not a DA fan per se, although I loved Origins, but this new direction has piqued my interest and if enough of what I enjoy in TES is present in DA3 then I'll likely be a buyer even though I avoided DAII.

Snip

Ok, you got me on that quote, as long as it is an accurate quote. But that doesn't mean it will change anything.  And it has nothing to do with the money...it's that what Bethesda's titles do is impressive, despite the bugs.  

And again, Skyrim isn't the best selling RPG nor is it revolutionary or anything.  Sorry to say, but it's leading me to assume you are too young to remember anything beyond the past two game generations.  That or you just are really stubborn and don't know when to concede when points in your argument fail.  The last option is that you are trolling, but I'd rather think better of you than that.

Claim I got you but question the legitimacy of a quote I provided (with a source), say with a straight face it isn't about the money (hint: its ALWAYS about the money), then resort to say I might be trolling.

Really?

[ArkkAngel007]

argonian persona wrote...

ArkkAngel007 wrote...

argonian persona wrote...

I found this quote interesting from Dr. Ray Muzyka:

"(The next Dragon Age) is gonna have the best of features from prior Dragon Age games, but it's also gonna have a lot of things I think players are going to find compelling from some of the games that are out now that are doing really well with more of an open world feel. We're checking (Skyrim) out aggressively. We like it. We're big admirers of (Bethesda) and the product. We think we can do some wonderful things."

http://m.wired.com/g...2/dragon-age-3/


This is an interesting quote, although it seemingly isn't good for DA fans who dislike Bethesda and open world games. I'm not a DA fan per se, although I loved Origins, but this new direction has piqued my interest and if enough of what I enjoy in TES is present in DA3 then I'll likely be a buyer even though I avoided DAII.

Snip

Ok, you got me on that quote, as long as it is an accurate quote. But that doesn't mean it will change anything.  And it has nothing to do with the money...it's that what Bethesda's titles do is impressive, despite the bugs.  

And again, Skyrim isn't the best selling RPG nor is it revolutionary or anything.  Sorry to say, but it's leading me to assume you are too young to remember anything beyond the past two game generations.  That or you just are really stubborn and don't know when to concede when points in your argument fail.  The last option is that you are trolling, but I'd rather think better of you than that.

Claim I got you but question the legitimacy of a quote I provided (with a source), say with a straight face it isn't about the money (hint: its ALWAYS about the money), then resort to say I might be trolling.

Really?

I never said it wasn't about the money.  Money is always a factor.   My point though was that some of the elements of Skyrim I feel will receive attention despite sales due to how well they work in the game.  But I will say with a straight face  that anything brought into DAIII that is found in Skyrim will be on how that feature works in DAIII, than the sale figures of Skyrim.

And you being a troll was only a option I named, and one that I dismissed. That would have been clear if you actually read that whole sentance rather than trying to pick apart any flaws to drive your point, however unrelated they may be to it.

Seriously, this is all blown way out of proportion.  Fact is, the claim of Skyrim starting an era you should have known was going to inflame everyone on here, and continuing to trumpet about it was going to make it worse.  The fact is, none of these games released this past generation, or even last, are worthy of the title of "era".  The closest may be the casual market, but since that doesn't exist for some reason, then we will drop that argument.  Skyrim is more of the same, from past installments, Fallout 3, and mods, refined to where it works pretty well, but doesn't really change anything in this industry.  I don't know how many times I and others have to reiterate that point to bring it across.

[Northernian]

argonian persona wrote...

I found this quote interesting from Dr. Ray Muzyka:

"(The next Dragon Age) is gonna have the best of features from prior Dragon Age games, but it's also gonna have a lot of things I think players are going to find compelling from some of the games that are out now that are doing really well with more of an open world feel. We're checking (Skyrim) out aggressively. We like it. We're big admirers of (Bethesda) and the product. We think we can do some wonderful things."

http://m.wired.com/g...2/dragon-age-3/


This is an interesting quote, although it seemingly isn't good for DA fans who dislike Bethesda and open world games. I'm not a DA fan per se, although I loved Origins, but this new direction has piqued my interest and if enough of what I enjoy in TES is present in DA3 then I'll likely be a buyer even though I avoided DAII.

What happened? EA saw Skyrim $$$. And Skyrim is an rpg?! EA wants. Badly. This is new. This hasn't occurred before. But why is it occurring?

We will see as we go, but hopefully this new phenomena eventually helps reverse the trend of ME towards Gears. When Tue self-proclaimed push for the CoD crowd doesn't go se well as BioWare plans, their focus will shift. And at the very least, as it seems they are doing now anyways, they'll probably try to bring the 'best of all worlds' together, and if they are taking pointers from Skyrim for DA3, it is probable it we will see an impact on future ME games.

ME3 was pretty much done with development by the time EA saw Skyrim $ales numbers. But from here on out, look for there to be a steady influence, as popular and high selling shooters and action games have up until now (Call of Duty, Gears of War, God of War).

Add to that lost of monetary influences The Elder Scrolls.

It's a brand new era in a sense due to the fact Skyrim is an...........RPG.

You have been relentlessly fishing for favours for the last 25 pages. But you haven't realized that your bait has gone off the hook. 

For what, I wonder? 

Fortunately, you have got nothing to offer except stir up a good fight. Reminds me the introduction to the science of trolling >.>

[GayFemshep]

...Can we have a post KH3-era?

[Alex_SM]

emanziboy wrote...

Alex_SM wrote...

Modern Warfare 3 is going to be the best selling game  in this generation, I'm not questioning that. But Skyrim is going to be top3.

There are a number of things you are saying that are wrong, but I can't prove them wrong because it's largely a matter of opinion. However, I can easily prove this sentence wrong just by using raw numbers.

1. MW3 will NOT be the best selling game this generation
2. Skyrim will not be one of the top 3 selling games this generation.

As impressive as MW3's sales are it is not nor will it ever be the best this generation. Wii Sports has sold almost 80 million copies, making it not only the best selling game of this generation, but of all time. It has nearly doubled its next closest competitor Super Mario Bros.

People seem to forget Wii games when it comes to talking about game sales. Here are Wii games Skyrim will never catch (I'm basing this on VGchartz. Yeah I know these are estimates and not the actual numbers, but even Vgcharts is accurate enough that it's clear Skyrim won't catch them.).

Wii Sports: 79.7 million
Mario Kart Wii: 31.2 million
Wii Sports Resort: 30.5 million
Wii Play: 28.5 million
New Super Mario Bros Wii: 24 million
Wii Fit: 22.7 million
Wii Fit Plus: 20.9 million

Those seven games, plus COD: Black Ops, MW2 and MW3 are 10 games Skyrim, which is at 8.9 million not counting digital sales, will never catch.

Wii is not a "this generation" console. It's something weird that goes in a totally different competition. 

[didymos1120]

Alex_SM wrote...

Wii is not a "this generation" console. It's something weird that goes in a totally different competition. 

LOL.  Best put those goalposts down before you injure something.

[Lunatic LK47]

Alex_SM wrote...

emanziboy wrote...

Alex_SM wrote...

Modern Warfare 3 is going to be the best selling game  in this generation, I'm not questioning that. But Skyrim is going to be top3.

There are a number of things you are saying that are wrong, but I can't prove them wrong because it's largely a matter of opinion. However, I can easily prove this sentence wrong just by using raw numbers.

1. MW3 will NOT be the best selling game this generation
2. Skyrim will not be one of the top 3 selling games this generation.

As impressive as MW3's sales are it is not nor will it ever be the best this generation. Wii Sports has sold almost 80 million copies, making it not only the best selling game of this generation, but of all time. It has nearly doubled its next closest competitor Super Mario Bros.

People seem to forget Wii games when it comes to talking about game sales. Here are Wii games Skyrim will never catch (I'm basing this on VGchartz. Yeah I know these are estimates and not the actual numbers, but even Vgcharts is accurate enough that it's clear Skyrim won't catch them.).

Wii Sports: 79.7 million
Mario Kart Wii: 31.2 million
Wii Sports Resort: 30.5 million
Wii Play: 28.5 million
New Super Mario Bros Wii: 24 million
Wii Fit: 22.7 million
Wii Fit Plus: 20.9 million

Those seven games, plus COD: Black Ops, MW2 and MW3 are 10 games Skyrim, which is at 8.9 million not counting digital sales, will never catch.

Wii is not a "this generation" console. It's something weird that goes in a totally different competition. 

Just to add to Alex's post, Wii is not meant for the core gamer.

[Thoth_Amon]

jreezy wrote...

Gatt9 wrote...

jreezy wrote...

emanziboy wrote...
Wii Sports: 79.7 million

Ridiculously impressive.

Gets even more interesting when you discover Angry Birds has been downloaded over 400 million times.  So if Skyrim's an Era,  Angry Birds is an Epoch.

Indeed.

Nah.  That's lightning in a bottle via a ripped off flash game from 5 years ago.  Not to mention, it's not hard to get people to download something that was also free a lot of the time.  Let's see how well their next title does.

[ArkkAngel007]

Lunatic LK47 wrote...

Alex_SM wrote...

emanziboy wrote...

Alex_SM wrote...

Modern Warfare 3 is going to be the best selling game  in this generation, I'm not questioning that. But Skyrim is going to be top3.

There are a number of things you are saying that are wrong, but I can't prove them wrong because it's largely a matter of opinion. However, I can easily prove this sentence wrong just by using raw numbers.

1. MW3 will NOT be the best selling game this generation
2. Skyrim will not be one of the top 3 selling games this generation.

As impressive as MW3's sales are it is not nor will it ever be the best this generation. Wii Sports has sold almost 80 million copies, making it not only the best selling game of this generation, but of all time. It has nearly doubled its next closest competitor Super Mario Bros.

People seem to forget Wii games when it comes to talking about game sales. Here are Wii games Skyrim will never catch (I'm basing this on VGchartz. Yeah I know these are estimates and not the actual numbers, but even Vgcharts is accurate enough that it's clear Skyrim won't catch them.).

Wii Sports: 79.7 million
Mario Kart Wii: 31.2 million
Wii Sports Resort: 30.5 million
Wii Play: 28.5 million
New Super Mario Bros Wii: 24 million
Wii Fit: 22.7 million
Wii Fit Plus: 20.9 million

Those seven games, plus COD: Black Ops, MW2 and MW3 are 10 games Skyrim, which is at 8.9 million not counting digital sales, will never catch.

Wii is not a "this generation" console. It's something weird that goes in a totally different competition. 

Just to add to Alex's post, Wii is not meant for the core gamer.

No, it's meant for everyone, which is a great thing.  There were some great games, both of the casual and core variety, on the Wii, and there have been times I wanted to own it personally.  The problem was that it was just seen as a cash in by most developers and not taken seriously, thus the crap ports and shovelware.  

While I hate Facebook games and plenty of the crap on iOS, it's a great gateway to the videogame industry for new consumers, rather than trying to jump into games that utilize a dozen buttons and a multitude of visual cues that cater to those who have gamed for years.

But let's just keep this industry all to our self-entitled selves so we can continue to be viewed as immature non-achievers.  This industry is still heavily viewed as one that caters to kids to a huge chunk of the population...and those who determine our laws and businesses are in that chunk.

[AlanC9]

Sure, the Wii is important to gaming as a whole. Ditto Facebook and all that mobile stuff.

But important to RPGs? I don't see it.

[Giantdeathrobot]

Not considering the Wii important because it's not for ''hardcore gamers'' is laughable. Its influence on the industry is extremely visible, far more than Mass Effect or Skyrim's (the ''Skyrim era''? lololol dream on fanboy).

Also, congratulations, you can imagine stories in your head. How does that make Skyrim a good RPG? It's a fine game, granted. But it's not a good RPG, and it most definitely didn't change anything major in the industry. It's sales and cultural impact are a fraction of other franchise's. One duality of Pokémon titles alone probably outsells every single Elder Scrolls games, ever.

[AtreiyaN7]

If impressive sales somehow denoted an "era," then gee, maybe what we're really experiencing is a post-Angry Birds era. *snort* I officially expect birds and slingshots in all future games, regardless of the genre!

[ArkkAngel007]

AlanC9 wrote...

Sure, the Wii is important to gaming as a whole. Ditto Facebook and all that mobile stuff.

But important to RPGs? I don't see it.

Quite a few of the simple games popular that started on MySpace and free-to-play sites that now are on Facebook and iOS are RPGs/have RPG elements.  

The goal is to ease folks into gaming, not just assault them with CoD and TES where they have no clue what to do and get overwhelmed, therefore dismiss gaming as a waste of time. 

[Ryzaki]

...If Bethesda and BW made a game together....

It would either be extremely awesome or so terrible I'd never want to think of it again.

[AlexXIV]

Ryzaki wrote...

...If Bethesda and BW made a game together....

It would either be extremely awesome or so terrible I'd never want to think of it again.

Terrible probably. They have different philosophies, which makes it next to impossible to unite in one game. Open world with superficial characters. And narrative with deep characters but pretty straight plot. You can't have both in one obviously.

I think what both need is someone who can direct a trilogy without major plot holes. For example who does have a vision of the whole trilogy and manages to keep it's intregry through the whole franchise. Right now they seem to make one game, then start thinking about the next, notice that they can't carry over the things as they thought and patch stuff together as good as possible. Can be lucky they are making games, not cars, or they would have quite the death toll.

[AlanC9]

ArkkAngel007 wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...

Sure, the Wii is important to gaming as a whole. Ditto Facebook and all that mobile stuff.

But important to RPGs? I don't see it.

Quite a few of the simple games popular that started on MySpace and free-to-play sites that now are on Facebook and iOS are RPGs/have RPG elements.  

The goal is to ease folks into gaming, not just assault them with CoD and TES where they have no clue what to do and get overwhelmed, therefore dismiss gaming as a waste of time. 

I see your point. I guess we then have to wonder what these new customers, if they show up, mean for the design of games like ME and even the TES games.

[ArkkAngel007]

AlanC9 wrote...

ArkkAngel007 wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...

Sure, the Wii is important to gaming as a whole. Ditto Facebook and all that mobile stuff.

But important to RPGs? I don't see it.

Quite a few of the simple games popular that started on MySpace and free-to-play sites that now are on Facebook and iOS are RPGs/have RPG elements.  

The goal is to ease folks into gaming, not just assault them with CoD and TES where they have no clue what to do and get overwhelmed, therefore dismiss gaming as a waste of time. 

I see your point. I guess we then have to wonder what these new customers, if they show up, mean for the design of games like ME and even the TES games.

Possibly more new-user friendly options in the options menu or alternative modes that already set those options up so they don't have to muck around in the menu, which is what ME3 is doing.  I doubt TES will change to suit new players, considering its target audience and just how the whole game functions, and I don't feel it should.  It is what it is and if there isn't a way to make it more noob-friendly without compromising the game in some way, then I'd rather not have it forced in there. 

[argonian persona]

Giantdeathrobot wrote...

Not considering the Wii important because it's not for ''hardcore gamers'' is laughable. Its influence on the industry is extremely visible, far more than Mass Effect or Skyrim's (the ''Skyrim era''? lololol dream on fanboy).

Also, congratulations, you can imagine stories in your head. How does that make Skyrim a good RPG? It's a fine game, granted. But it's not a good RPG, and it most definitely didn't change anything major in the industry. It's sales and cultural impact are a fraction of other franchise's. One duality of Pokémon titles alone probably outsells every single Elder Scrolls games, ever.

Unfortunately, while I respect your opinion, you're in the minority.

You know where else I used to imagine stories in my head? Paper and pencil rpgs. The industry and popular opinion places you in the minority. Maybe you're hesitant to embrace a new era of rpgs, but it is inevitable now.

I just hope choice matters in ME3. However, I hear far and wide it means not one lick...your choices. I don't think I will even mention emails from ME2.

As I said....Pokemon was a fad for children, primarily. My brother had a Pokemon theme birthday party when he was six.

As far as Wii...up until now (right now) I didn't mention Wii. That was others discussing that. Pretty quick to jump the gun there.

Modifié par argonian persona, 02 janvier 2012 - 09:16 .

[argonian persona]

ArkkAngel007 wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...

ArkkAngel007 wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...

Sure, the Wii is important to gaming as a whole. Ditto Facebook and all that mobile stuff.

But important to RPGs? I don't see it.

Quite a few of the simple games popular that started on MySpace and free-to-play sites that now are on Facebook and iOS are RPGs/have RPG elements.  

The goal is to ease folks into gaming, not just assault them with CoD and TES where they have no clue what to do and get overwhelmed, therefore dismiss gaming as a waste of time. 

I see your point. I guess we then have to wonder what these new customers, if they show up, mean for the design of games like ME and even the TES games.

Possibly more new-user friendly options in the options menu or alternative modes that already set those options up so they don't have to muck around in the menu, which is what ME3 is doing.  I doubt TES will change to suit new players, considering its target audience and just how the whole game functions, and I don't feel it should.  It is what it is and if there isn't a way to make it more noob-friendly without compromising the game in some way, then I'd rather not have it forced in there. 

Casual games like that won't have an impact as much as you would think, simply because of consumer demands in the individual markets.

[ArkkAngel007]

argonian persona wrote...

ArkkAngel007 wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...

ArkkAngel007 wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...

Sure, the Wii is important to gaming as a whole. Ditto Facebook and all that mobile stuff.

But important to RPGs? I don't see it.

Quite a few of the simple games popular that started on MySpace and free-to-play sites that now are on Facebook and iOS are RPGs/have RPG elements.  

The goal is to ease folks into gaming, not just assault them with CoD and TES where they have no clue what to do and get overwhelmed, therefore dismiss gaming as a waste of time. 

I see your point. I guess we then have to wonder what these new customers, if they show up, mean for the design of games like ME and even the TES games.

Possibly more new-user friendly options in the options menu or alternative modes that already set those options up so they don't have to muck around in the menu, which is what ME3 is doing.  I doubt TES will change to suit new players, considering its target audience and just how the whole game functions, and I don't feel it should.  It is what it is and if there isn't a way to make it more noob-friendly without compromising the game in some way, then I'd rather not have it forced in there. 

Casual games like that won't have an impact as much as you would think, simply because of consumer demands in the individual markets.

So new consumers don't have a significant impact on future sales?  What an amazing business model.  They are significant, and much more than you realize.  We all started somewhere that got us to the point where we are now in our taste and skill in the games we play.  I started with arcade and board games, progressed to the NES and Sega systems, and so on and so forth until now where I'm about to shell out nearly a grand on a computer to keep up with games on PC for the next 4-5 years.

Someone I spoke to at a New Years party for some of our veteran friends who had just come off training and deployment made the pont that there have been no huge gains in the industry this past generation aside from connecting with new consumer markets.  And that, he pointed out, is what will keep the industry alive in 5, 10, 20, plus years from now.

[argonian persona]

ArkkAngel007 wrote...

argonian persona wrote...

ArkkAngel007 wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...

ArkkAngel007 wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...

Sure, the Wii is important to gaming as a whole. Ditto Facebook and all that mobile stuff.

But important to RPGs? I don't see it.

Quite a few of the simple games popular that started on MySpace and free-to-play sites that now are on Facebook and iOS are RPGs/have RPG elements.  

The goal is to ease folks into gaming, not just assault them with CoD and TES where they have no clue what to do and get overwhelmed, therefore dismiss gaming as a waste of time. 

I see your point. I guess we then have to wonder what these new customers, if they show up, mean for the design of games like ME and even the TES games.

Possibly more new-user friendly options in the options menu or alternative modes that already set those options up so they don't have to muck around in the menu, which is what ME3 is doing.  I doubt TES will change to suit new players, considering its target audience and just how the whole game functions, and I don't feel it should.  It is what it is and if there isn't a way to make it more noob-friendly without compromising the game in some way, then I'd rather not have it forced in there. 

Casual games like that won't have an impact as much as you would think, simply because of consumer demands in the individual markets.

So new consumers don't have a significant impact on future sales?  What an amazing business model.  They are significant, and much more than you realize.  We all started somewhere that got us to the point where we are now in our taste and skill in the games we play.  I started with arcade and board games, progressed to the NES and Sega systems, and so on and so forth until now where I'm about to shell out nearly a grand on a computer to keep up with games on PC for the next 4-5 years.

Someone I spoke to at a New Years party for some of our veteran friends who had just come off training and deployment made the pont that there have been no huge gains in the industry this past generation aside from connecting with new consumer markets.  And that, he pointed out, is what will keep the industry alive in 5, 10, 20, plus years from now.

Of course new customers make an impact on future sales. My claim is that there is an established marketplace where there will always be games designed for the "hardcore gamer" because there is an established market with certain expectations and demand for a certain level of complexity, less it be dumbed down.

Developers are free to seek out what market they want, but there will always be a supplier for the large market demand I'm in.

I agree...it'll be interesting to see how things evolve in the coming decade.

[ArkkAngel007]

argonian persona wrote...

ArkkAngel007 wrote...

Snip..was getting too long

So new consumers don't have a significant impact on future sales?  What an amazing business model.  They are significant, and much more than you realize.  We all started somewhere that got us to the point where we are now in our taste and skill in the games we play.  I started with arcade and board games, progressed to the NES and Sega systems, and so on and so forth until now where I'm about to shell out nearly a grand on a computer to keep up with games on PC for the next 4-5 years.

Someone I spoke to at a New Years party for some of our veteran friends who had just come off training and deployment made the pont that there have been no huge gains in the industry this past generation aside from connecting with new consumer markets.  And that, he pointed out, is what will keep the industry alive in 5, 10, 20, plus years from now.

Of course new customers make an impact on future sales. My claim is that there is an established marketplace where there will always be games designed for the "hardcore gamer" because there is an established market with certain expectations and demand for a certain level of complexity, less it be dumbed down.

Developers are free to seek out what market they want, but there will always be a supplier for the large market demand I'm in.

I agree...it'll be interesting to see how things evolve in the coming decade.

Which was why I mentioned how TES would never see anything that would cater to new consumers, because it doesn't have the flexibility that Mass Effect does to do so.  I mean...you have the difficulty bar and that's pretty much all that could be set, so why bother?  It is a core gamer experience, and it's great that way.

[argonian persona]

Is BioWare releasing a toolkit for ME3?

[SirDoctorofTARDIS]

argonian persona wrote...

Is BioWare releasing a toolkit for ME3?

What does this have to do with anything that has been previously discussed?