1113 réponses à ce sujet

[The Hierophant]

Savber100 wrote...

DA2: Great premise but horrific presentation vs  Skyrim: Terrible, cliched premise but great presentation 

Lol you also just described DA:O.

Modifié par The Hierophant, 03 janvier 2012 - 10:42 .

[argonian persona]

jreezy wrote...

argonian persona wrote...

jreezy wrote...

GnusmasTHX wrote...

It will be viewed as having:

An actual story.
Characters.

Because Skyrim has none of these.

Skyrim's story is infinitely more interesting than DA2, tbh

Not sure why you're telling me this, did you not see the eyeroll?

I did...I was supporting your post.

[Savber100]

argonian persona wrote...

Did you play Skyrim? I saw no mention of what I consider just as prominent as Alduin.......the political side of it: the Thalmor and the Aldmeri Dominion.

I don't mean this in a mean or confronting way....I think you are a good fellow forumite...you express your opinion and youre polite and make good points.

What politics? I admit the BACKGROUND on the current political situation of the Empire and the Dominion was interesting but Skyrim hardly touched on that. Instead the Thalmors were just the "big bad elves across the sea". Instead of exploring the politics we ended up doing fetch quests for either the Empire of the Stormcloaks of the Skyrim Civil War. Maybe I was just spoiled by the Witcher 2 emphasis on politics along with some tidbits from Dragon Age: Origins. 

In the end, the Thalmor threat was hardly a major plot point. Of course, Bethesda did get a great job in integrating the current politics into Skyrim world and that I will NOT deny as Bethesda are master in creating believable worlds. However, the "political" side as you said was just a backdrop to the return of Alduin. There was little to no quests that involved confronting directly the Thalmor threat besides for the questline between the Empire and Stormcloaks. So in the end, the Thalmor was more or less the decorative wallpaper that instigated the Skyrim Civil War (or whatever they're calling it) and nothing else. 

Also on a side note: I was comparing the main plots of the two games not the side-quests. 

Modifié par Savber100, 03 janvier 2012 - 11:17 .

[Boiny Bunny]

I'm kind of curious as to what exactly the OP means by 'post Skyrim'? Skyrim is more or less a slightly watered down Morrowind with much better graphics. I fail to see anything it has done worthy of having it's own 'pre' and 'post' terms...

[Mike Shepard]

Mass Effect was ground breaking. An original storyline, a extremely dynamic protagonist, deep characters that you can relate to, and most of all, a compelling and truly hateable antagonist. In short, it was amazing.
Mass Effect 2 was the next logical step in the process. It expands the universe to include a previously only mentioned area (the Terminus Systems) and it made Shepard's story a bit of a tragedy: just as he was becoming the hero the galaxy needed, he was struck down by a enemy no one saw coming. It was a legitimate Game of the Year Canidate, and in fact it won many GOTY awards. It was flawed yes (no maps outside of hubs?? no option to toggle helmets?? limited and somewhat diluted inventory management?? among other minor complaints) but it was still awesome, and improved on the original in some regards (a true ammo system, while at first strange quickly became preferable, and the combat was very much improved)
Mass Effect 3 will be, in all likelihood, the best of the series. If Mass Effect 1 is A New Hope, Mass Effect 2 is Empire Strikes Back, then surely Mass Effect 3 will be Return of the Jedi--a suitably epic conclusion to the story of Commander Shepard. Skyrim is, honestly, irrelevant. I don't judge, for instance, the Driver series against the Grand Theft Auto series. and I don't judge Dragon Age against Fallout. "Post Skyrim?" this will shock some, but not many perhaps...I have absolutely no intention to buy or play The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim unless a copy falls into my lap magically through some random circumstances. Just doesn't appeal to me.

[Jexx21]

Err.. Mass Effect 3 looks to merge the shooter and RPG genres together even more than Mass Effect 2.

Considering the kind of game Mass Effect is, it can only be a good thing.
In any case, it certainly looks like it'll massively improve on the Mass Effect series.

[Volus Warlord]

Apples and oranges...

[jsmith1a2000]

i'm no expert on video games and have not played skyrim (only seen reviews and videos and talked to a guy who plays it) but i don't see how it can be defined as an end to an ''era'' unless it takes an arrow to the knee (sorry i couldn't resist here hehe)

'nyways, i just wanted to say that it would be interesting to see mass effect 3 as it would be the first 3rd game in a bioware-original IP. i know it's obvious but i think it will be a good indication for where dragon age 3 is going to be

[Mike Shepard]

I mean in Mass Effect they emphasize consequences. Okay so the Rachni make you mad huh? Alright go ahead and commit genocide. But in Mass Effect 3 don't expect the Rachni to help you against the Reapers. In fact it could be just the opposite. Okay so you saved the Collector base?? well guess what since Cerberus hates you now that's gonna make them more of a pain in the backside. Okay so you aren't exactly apologetic for killing a crap load of Batarians?? Well now the Batarians hate humans more. Did you kill the council? Well now the new council doesn't trust you because you have showed a willingness to sell them out. And people resent you from being human first even though the threat was bigger than humanity. Did you kill Rana? Well her genetic research might have come in handy come time to kick some reaper behind. Did you put a shotgun shell through Wrex's head? well guess what the Krogan are mad about that. Almost every choice has a real consequence meaning just about everyone that plays will experience something different. Different dialog options vary slightly, but the difference between saying "OK I'll be happy to help" and "No. Give me what I want, now, or I kill you." is actually bigger than it seems. Mass Effect--and to an extent Dragon Age II which adapted ME's dialog wheel and tweaked it--is about tone and attitude. I'd take a 40 hour game where I can tell you for instance that Fist appears in Mass Effect 2 on Omega and complains about harrassment over a (if the estimates are correct) 300 hour game where the NPCs become a veritable sea of generic personalities. A great example is Fallout 3; I've played the game from start to finish once and I have never seen so many bugs in a game...then I played New Vegas, and was actually crying halfway through (no lie) because it was pathetic. Exploration and quantity of miniquests mean nothing if the characters are not memorable (for instance I remember a quirky shop owner in Fallout 3 but I can't remember their name) but I can remember the name of the Engineers in Mass Effect 1 (Engineer Adams) and Mass Effect 2 (Kenneth "Ken" Donnelly and Gabriella "Gabby" Daniels), who played very minor roles. I felt more connected to Navigator Pressley than I did to any of the companions in Fallout 3 or New Vegas. As has been stated numerous times that's like comparing apples and oranges. Nothing alike, and if anything people will be saying "how will game X be viewed in the post Mass Effect trilogy era" and to the above (jsmith's) point: I believe Baldur's Gate had 4 games (two "main" games and two expansion packs) so it's technically not. and SWTOR is the spiritual sucessor to the KOTOR series)

[jsmith1a2000]

i don't want to argue since, like i said, i don't know much about video games, but I don't really count expansion pack because then, dragon age 2 would be actually dragon age 3.
and i did say bioware-original IP and star wars is really not a bioware-original IP.

[OmegaBlue0231]

Skyrim is an open world exploration RPG, Mass Effect 3 is a character driven action/rpg.

That's like comparing how a chocolate bar taste to how steak taste. They're two different things that are both good but distinctly different.

[Ahglock]

AlanC9 wrote...

Is Skyrim that much more successful than Oblivion?

They have already shipped 10 million copies.  I think oblivion sold in the 5 million range.  

[dreman9999]

argonian persona wrote...

Whoa. What are the ages of some of you? 13?

They have a point. Skyrim may be good but it's not the revolutionary game changingrpg that you make it out to be. It's just a more improved version of oblivion. If ME1 and ME2 did fantastic  post oblivion, ME3 will be no different.
I think you need to understand that rpg are different and people like rpg for different things.

[Homebound]

im partial to disco lights myself.

[DiebytheSword]

jreezy wrote...

Volus Warlord wrote...

Apples and oranges...

Both fruit though, which can justify comparisons.

By that logic, we should compare all games to all games though.

What will the perception of ME3 be in the post-Grand Turismo 5 era?  I mean, ME really needs to spice up its driving sequences.

[DiebytheSword]

Cthulhu42 wrote...

DiebytheSword wrote...

What will the perception of ME3 be in the post-Grand Turismo 5 era?  I mean, ME really needs to spice up its driving sequences.

It does, really; the Mako and Hammerhead were both awful.

 I know, and the Maker knows that ME3 melee combat pales in comparison to modern fighters in the post Super Street Fighter 4 turbo era.

[Drone223]

Edit: Nevermind

Modifié par Drone223, 04 janvier 2012 - 02:44 .

[Gatt9]

Ahglock wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...

Is Skyrim that much more successful than Oblivion?

They have already shipped 10 million copies.  I think oblivion sold in the 5 million range.  

I posted links a dozen pages back give or take,  but I'll summarize it here again.

You've gotta be *really* careful with any numbers Bethesda hands out.  They made a big announcement about 4.6 million units with Fallout 3,  but when you did the math on the NPD numbers,  being very generous with the unknowns*,  you end up around 1.8 million units sold.

From everything I've seen,  Bethesda overships by a very large margin,  and makes announcements about it.  Looks like they try to trick people into thinking they're missing something to get extra sales.

When I went christmas shopping,  my Best Buy had between 40-50 copies of Skyrim on each platform.  Which reminded me very heavily of how Circuit City was loaded down with Fallout 3 copies,  that they couldn't give away at 50% off,  not too long after release.

Plus,  let's be serious here.  Morrowind sold 4 million,  Oblivion sold around 4 million,  Skyrim's suddenly going to double that?  It's the same game,  I don't see how they're suddenly going to sell twice as many units of the same game.

Awfully convienent for Bethesda though,  that we don't get NPD numbers anymore to see what the actual sales are.

Edit:

Almost forgot my explaination...

*The PS3/PC version of Fallout 3 never hit the charts,  so you do the math by assuming it sold 1 unit less than the lowest reported game.  I.e.,  if Game #10 sold 100,000 units,  you assume Fallout 3 PS3 sold 99,999.  It's being very generous,  because that's not the right number,  the right number is inargueably lower.

Modifié par Gatt9, 04 janvier 2012 - 02:48 .

[Mike Shepard]

ah yes I admit I didn't fully read your post when you said Bioware original IP. my mistake, a thousand apologies good sir. that makes you correct. unless someone can point out something I'm missing, no other Bioware game has had a third "major" release (i.e. not an expansion pack), so Mass Effect (and Dragon Age, which while not related in terms of storyline, is the spiritual successor to Baldur's Gate. Not the same series at all, I just consider that worth noting.) I go back to what I said about Fallout 3 which is the Bethesda Game I am most acquainted with (seeing as I have yet to and never intend to touch TES. When I worked at Wal-Mart this holiday season I had a first hand look: Skyrim sold etremely poorly at least at that Wal-Mart.) Fallout 3 has a pretty massive world you can explore and conservative estimates on completing absolutely everything you possibly can in the base game plus the expansions (i.e. tracking down all unique weapons, completing all collection quests, completing every sidequest, plus the main storyline without skipping ahead) puts you well over the 40-60 hours ME1 (which had almost no DLC) would take for a first time player)...that said, how much of Fallout 3 is truly memorable? I mean I don't even remember the name of the main character's parents! And they (or at the least your father, but you could argue the mother as well) drive the main plot. When I play Fallout 3 (it's becoming infrequent) I have to use the Fallout Wiki to look up quest locations and things to remind me. I haven't played Mass Effect 1 since before the sequel was released and I could list twenty character names off hand without looking it up (go ahead test me. haha. [no seriously i want to see if I can do it...someone shoot me a PM and I'll see if I can do it, I just don't want to get too far off topic here]) well that's all from me for now. In summary exploration is meaningless if the things that fill it are not memorable. The admitedly tiny maps of Mass Effect 1 & 2 are filled with more memorable characters than the entirety of the Capital or Mojave Wastelands. and Noveria's maps could probably fit in the Mojave Wasteland map...

[Ahglock]

jreezy wrote...

Ahglock wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...

Is Skyrim that much more successful than Oblivion?

They have already shipped 10 million copies.  I think oblivion sold in the 5 million range.  

Those two words, not the same.

True but do you think they would have shipped 10 million if the sales were not good?

But if you want the sales numbers not including direct digital downloads form steam.

3,941,739 Xbox360
2,693,254 PS3
1,620,904 PC packaged retail discs 

Or a bit over 8 million copies sold so far even when not including steam downloads.  

The fact is whether people want to admit it or not the game is resonating with people even if it is just morrowind/oblivion 2.0  It might not be some peoples style of game, but it is selling absurdly well.  Bioware would not have talked about learning things from skyrim for the next dragon age if it was a crap game that only sold a couple million copies.