94 réponses à ce sujet

[filkertom]

I was just thinking about this today, and I seriously can't see how you can compare the two. No, really. Not to diss one over the other, or say how incredible A is over B.

Oblivion is a game of exploration. There is a deep, action-filled story, but you don't have to go near it if you don't want to. How you deal with the characters, situations, and environments is pretty much up to you, and you don't break the game if you ignore the main quest. Combat is, as mentioned on this thread, much like a FPS with swords, and there's a much wider and more powerful range of magic and magical items. Bluntly, it's also easier to add onto the game (although I'm sure we'll see some breakthroughs in DAO soon enough).

DAO is a more cinematic, story-driven campaign. Dialogue is much more important. You can't go exploring all that much; you have areas and characters which are important to the story, and in a number of cases you have to deal with them in a certain order. You're juggling several characters, and you're more limited in how you can advance them. Magic is more limited, and magical items are rare enough to be pretty special even if underpowered.
I say this as one of those oddball weirdo gamers who doesn't look to take hideous advantage of leveling, skill advancement, buffing stats, and/or various cheat modes. I certainly use some mods to change the balance in Oblivion, but mostly in line with my old paper-and-pen RPG days -- a little better archery, Francesco's leveling mod, things like that. Most of the rest of my add-ons are extra quests.

I love both games. I also love Diablo II, a straight-up loot-gathering clickfest with isometric faux 3D and many monsters to bash. And Neverwinter Nights. And Ultima 4, Final Fantasy 7, Telengard, Larn, all the way back to Dungeons of Doom and Zork on my TI99/4A.

Not to mention Unreal Tournament 2004, Quake 3 Arena, Plants vs. Zombies, and The Secret of Monkey Island.

I seriously have no idea why it's necessary to say one type of game is crap just because you like another type. I play 'em all.

Modifié par filkertom, 24 novembre 2009 - 01:27 .

[Dark83]

The biggest problem, "story" wise, between Oblivion and Morrowind is that everything is spoken aloud. This means you don't get the lore and details that Morrowind provided.



Which is fine for the action gamerz of this generation, but is a far cry from the hardcore D&D nerd demographic.

[Zahnfleisch]

There is no winner for me.

Both game-styles mean different sorts of rpg-feeling from a different point of view.

If I want to spend infinite time in huge worlds with tons of quests and creatures and things to do without any need to approach in the story line - I will play Morrowind/Oblivion.

If I want to be entertained by an epic, movie-like Adventure - I go DA:O.

In TES l am the charakter - creating my own story and maybe finishing the game some day.
In DA I lead my charakter through the story. I am super-entertained but I have to follow the storyline.

Both ways are great. Thats why I play both.

[Dark83]

As a disclaimer, I loved FO3 and Oblivion for about two weeks before the games crushed my soul.



Oblivion, the breaking point wasn't the leveling system. As a min/maxing powergamer, I knew the system inside out and gamed it. The breaking point was when a random patrol of bandits showed up in full daedric and attacked me. Random. Bandits. It had taken me most of the game to gather up good gear, and they're mugging me wearing enough cash to buy ten houses? I never even got the will to play again just to see the GIANT GOD OF DOOM scene. (Nope, never beat it.)



FO3 I burned out in. I leveled to 20 about three to five times, had everything but unarmed maxed, practically every unique weapon in the game (I think I was short... actually, I can't think of anything.) Every single side quest done. (And I do mean ALL.) The exploration was awesome (which the good folks at Bethesda are awesome at) but going back to the main quest... I couldn't work up the will to do that, either.



So I'm missing out on the Moment of Awesome in both games. At least Oblivion had a better ending than the bullcrap they pulled in FO3, which I obviously spoiled the crap out of for myself in disbelief once I heard. Ugh.

[Dex1701]

Dark83 wrote...
Oblivion, the breaking point wasn't the leveling system. As a min/maxing powergamer, I knew the system inside out and gamed it. The breaking point was when a random patrol of bandits showed up in full daedric and attacked me. Random. Bandits. It had taken me most of the game to gather up good gear, and they're mugging me wearing enough cash to buy ten houses? 

Yeah, the enemy and loot scaling was just ridiculous.  In most RPGs it's exciting to find good/rare equipment.  In Oblivion when you hit a certain level they just start throwing ultra-rare gear at you.  Every Joe Mugger has a set of top-tier armor and good weapons.  It completely took the joy out of finding/collecting good items.  Between that, the level scaling that made leveling up your character feel pointless, the lack of consequences for your actions, the lack of much of anything being dynamic ("So, I'm the leader of the Mage's Guild now...what can I do with that?  Nothing?  Umm...ok...cool."), and many other things Oblivion was a huge letdown for me.

[Rexxean]

Seifz wrote...

I still don't understand why anyone played Oblivion for more than a weekend. Am I the only one that figured out how to break the stat system without cheating and just own everything? I mean, it was fun to run around and kill people and do quests for about a day and then I spent another day actually finishing the "story", but then it got pretty boring.

Still, it was very pretty! I remember editing the settings file to make the graphics better than the in-game menu supported and it was very, very nice to look at. I especially loved the water reflections!

Sorry Sir but i gotta call you a liar even with cheats , i.e. insta kills whaterver, you cannot run though and listen to all the vocals of story line, let alone do all the mission to become a Guildmaster of a guild or all the guilds which is pretty much part of the main story line, not even counting main quest not just the fetch quest.... Sounds like you ruined oblivion for yourself., hhaha.. yea i learned my lesson on a game. dont use a cheat if you really want to enjoy it...But i still dont believe your BS about 1 day complete oblivion completion in first day you played because you found a cheat, ITs physically impossible if you listen to vocal chat of main campaign..

[Damiannnnn]

I hated how everything leveled up with you in Oblivion, so I thought I'd wasted my money when I first bought it. Only after I discovered Oscuro's Oblivion Overhaul a year or so later did I really start to enjoy the game. Without mods, you could go absolutely anywhere in the world and never have to worry about dying, because if you were level 1, all the enemies were level 1, even the final boss in the game. With OOO, you could wander into a cave and get killed in one hit by an extremely powerful wizard. Then, after leveling up a bit, you could walk into that same cave and kill him in 1 hit because you're now more powerful than him.



Oblivion is superior to DAO in one massive way though. 100% of the map is accessible. I was so disappointed when I left Lothering and found out I couldn't actually walk to any city I wanted and had to fast travel. It would be amazing if the entire world was open, if you could walk from Lothering to Denerim and explore caves and forests inbetween.

[Kaosgirl]

Johohoho.Ehehehe wrote...

I hate sandboxes and can't see any advantage they could possibly provide, no matter how hard I tried in the past.

Heh.  That's what most of  the complaints about Oblivion sound like to me.  Kudos to you for being upfront about it.  

[Godeshus]

 I love Oblivion and DA both.

As for Comparisons, hmm. They are both set in a fantasy realm, and they are both rpg's. It prety much ends there.

One thing to note, however, is that I've seen a few posts stating Oblivion is not an rpg. It may not be the type of rpg you like, but it is still one nonetheless. Any game where you have different classes you can choose from, and where you can take on the roll of the character is an rpg.

I've played Oblivion dozens of times. Sometimes for weeks, sometimes for a few hours. Sometimes for the main story, sometimes not. That, to me, is the beauty of the game. I've played the game with every class, I've played evil characters that kill people for fun, and I've also played as a moral character who wouldn't even pick a lock as it would be the "wrong" thing to do. As a mage that casts fireballs and electric blasts, or a mage that would use only support spells (this one was tough). It is an immensely diverse game. It is very easy to unbalance your character, but just because you can doesn't mean you have to. 

DA, I love for different reasons. Story telling, tactics, controlling more than one character, etc. Haven't finished a playthrough yet, so I can't add any more so far.

Cheers.

[Deflagratio]

Both are great games, but completely different. I would favor Dragon Age over Oblivion though. Because of how they cut away several RPG elements to make room for hack n slash crap. I would still say Fallout 3 is a slight favorite over Dragon Age: Origins. But it's a very close race at worst. With Morrowind topping both of them by a bit more.

A lot of people seem to be surprised now when an RPG isn't in a sandbox world, and believe it's a discredit to games now. It's sad. I would liken Bioware's approach to RPGs from Bethesda (And the vast majority of open-world RPG pretenders) in a volume measurement. Bioware's games tend to be a lot more linear in progression, and constrained in actual area scope. But the depth of what is there is unrivaled. Think if a Bioware RPG as a body of water that is 50 feet long, 10 feet wide and 150 feet deep. Where Oblivion or Fallout would be a body of water that is 100 feet long, 100 feet wide and 20 feet deep. Some people might not be down to explore the depth, and maybe then they favor the more vast surface area. It's a personal preference, both have roughly the same amount of volume to them. It basically comes down to the Pie or Cake descision. And I'm sure that will start a flame war about how much better cake is (And with nonstop Portal references, because if you kick a dead horse enough it might involuntarily expel it's bowel contents).

So as far as the OP relation to this sputtering of words is. I honestly think there is few if any similarity between Oblivion and Dragon Age. I guess if you want to be nitpicky. Both are in a fairly Generic Fantasy setting, though Bioware has taken the familiar Elves Dwarves and Men, and woven some interesting twists among what we consider normal. And aside from both being games, their about as different as they can get.

Oblivion:
   Action-based
   Minor Stat Driven
   Horrible difficulty scaling
   Vast open area, with lots of useless space.
   Relatively few items, but at least they mostly look different.
   Fairly good on the eyes.
   Mediocre Musical score.
   No Spears.


Dragon Age:
   Tactical/Party based
   Very Stat-oriented
   Wonderfully challenging (Compared to every game released in the last 10 years, save for Demon's Souls)
   Constrained area, but deep.
   Quite a bit of items, but most are copypasta with a reskin. A little dissapointing, but surely they pushed the memory limit to the limit on the 360
   Graphically, bordering a failure. If it didn't run so damn good, we'd have an issue. Namely the distant Level of Detail is bad. Close up it looks good, and far off statics look passable, though could be better since they are inaccessible. But the nonstatic distant Lower LOD objects look downright ugly.
   Unusually good musical score. I hope it isn't a backhanded compliment to say it's one of the best features of the game.
   No Spears. Seriously wtf?

One thing I will point out. While Oblivion's game model (And Fallout 3's) Opens itself up well in it's style to Small bite-sized DLC focused around combat. I don't think personally this is the best option for Bioware's games. With Cinedesign, Dialog and story elements to consider, as well as keeping the Voice acting up to snuff, I really think large, healthy Expansion packs are the ideal way to go. I feel this about every game actually. But Mass Effect, Dragon Age and the like especially are not really about the combat encounters. Fun though they are. So to rely on lots of low-space combat to beefen up a DLC doens't fit well. I want to point out I find the combat system in Dragon Age the most rewarding single player RPG combat in some time, but really, and I think this is intention, they serve as distractions of the intricacies of the interactive story elements. If you do have to do big Combat expansions, how about clearing out some of those Old Thaigs in the Deep roads though????

Anyway, end of the textwall.

[darkblueglass]

I liked the open world structure of Oblivion.

The big and beautiful cities were jaw dropping and the trees and flowers were amazing.

The tower in the imperial city can be seen from so far away and it was amazing.



On the other hand, the story was disappointing. The world was beautiful but it felt rather generic at the same time and not so interesting. You go to wild or a dungeon and every single encounter were my enemies. I liked to talk to people who I met in the wild and I liked to fight along a mage that I met in a dungeon sometimes. If the mage had some background stories, it would have been good.



If I need to choose one, I will choose DA due to its rich story and interesting companions.



But if it is possible, I like to see a game with both elements: open world of Oblivion and engaging story and companions of DA. It will be my dream game.

How about you guys?



Ultima 7 seems one of the closest one for me even though the story and companions are not as sophisticated as DA and the graphics obviously is not as good as Oblivion but the style of the game seems right for me. And you can bake and it always helps :-)



I remember that I met an NPC in a dungeon with a dragon in Ultima 7. I initiated dialogue and I realized that I met his parents in a far away city. The parents mentioned that his son was missing and I was really surprised that I met the son crawling the dungeon to get the treasure from the dragon and obviously he couldn't do that. It wasn't quest or anything but I was pretty impressive the details of the game and subtleness of the game.

[Dark83]

Kaosgirl wrote...

Johohoho.Ehehehe wrote...

I hate sandboxes and can't see any advantage they could possibly provide, no matter how hard I tried in the past.

Heh.  That's what most of  the complaints about Oblivion sound like to me.  Kudos to you for being upfront about it.  

Hey, I played Morrowind for months. Then I reinstalled it years later (after I played Oblivion), and got rehooked for around two months. Oblivion was maybe two to four weeks, then never touched again.

Edit: The Morrowind main theme still invokes feelings of wonder and epic possiblities when I hear it. I remember just staring at the stars and realizing it matched the constellations, and the duststorms. Any flying and seeing a giant world where I could go anywhere.

Oblivion, to be blunt, dumbed it down for consoles. I don't mean the gameplay was stupidier. I meant the whole mechanics system had to be reduced in complexity for consoles - you don't have on giant seemless world because the consoles can't handle it, so you get loading screens and doorways everywhere - Morrowind's grand ruins are gone. Flying became definetely out. The world became smaller, connected subworlds. You couldn't even delete spells, and I can't even imagine why. It became more twitch, less skill - which I blame, perhaps unfairly, on the console gamer market.

Modifié par Dark83, 24 novembre 2009 - 05:07 .

[Godeshus]

Deflagratio wrote...



Oblivion:
   Action-based
   Minor Stat Driven
   Horrible difficulty scaling
   Vast open area, with lots of useless space.
   Relatively few items, but at least they mostly look different.
   Fairly good on the eyes.
   Mediocre Musical score.
   No Spears.

LOL I remember thinking the same thing when Oblivion finally came out. Had been waiting for it for 4 years, and was a little disappointed at some of the things they had removed from Morrowind. Such as Spears and the Levitate spell. Especially the levitate spell.

darkbluegrass wrote...

But if it is possible, I like to see a game with both elements: open world of Oblivion and engaging story and companions of DA. It will be my dream game.

How about you guys?

A worldmap style akin to dungeon siege, but with the rpg elements of DA would be nice. I remember loving dungeon siege for it's world. You could literally walk from one end of the map to the other without ever seeing a load time (they were there, but MS was hella sneaky at throwing them in and you never noticed it). It would take you a hours to do so, though.

[Godeshus]

Dark83 wrote...

Kaosgirl wrote...

Johohoho.Ehehehe wrote...

I hate sandboxes and can't see any advantage they could possibly provide, no matter how hard I tried in the past.

I tried playing Morrowind again after Oblivion, but couldn't get past the old physics system. I remember hearing talk about a Morrowind fan mod for Oblivion. That is the game would be Morrowind, but using the Oblivion physics. 

Heh.  That's what most of  the complaints about Oblivion sound like to me.  Kudos to you for being upfront about it.  

Hey, I played Morrowind for months. Then I reinstalled it years later (after I played Oblivion), and got rehooked for around two months. Oblivion was maybe two to four weeks, then never touched again.

[Greye]

Deflagratio wrote...

BothThink if a Bioware RPG as a body of water that is 50 feet long, 10 feet wide and 150 feet deep. Where Oblivion or Fallout would be a body of water that is 100 feet long, 100 feet wide and 20 feet deep.

I kind of disagree with the analogy.  To me, the DA:O style map seems much larger than Oblivion in terms of square miles, etc. because of the implied distances that aren't rendered.  I guess my imagination has me believing I'm actually traveling several hours with my group to get from Redcliff to the Mage Tower.  By the same token, Oblivion seemed tiny.  It was supposed to be larger than Morrowind, but it *seemed* smaller because of the open map.  Baldur's Gate did DA one better, (iirc?), with a date and time stamp.  So if you traveled the map, you'd really show up at your destination like two days later.  That's a heap of immersion to me.  Even though there are less dungeons and actual rendered features, the land of Ferelden seems far bigger than Cyrodiil with my imagination filling in the gaps. *shrug* Enchantment!

[Rexxean]

darkblueglass wrote...

I liked the open world structure of Oblivion.
The big and beautiful cities were jaw dropping and the trees and flowers were amazing.
The tower in the imperial city can be seen from so far away and it was amazing.

On the other hand, the story was disappointing. The world was beautiful but it felt rather generic at the same time and not so interesting. You go to wild or a dungeon and every single encounter were my enemies. I liked to talk to people who I met in the wild and I liked to fight along a mage that I met in a dungeon sometimes. If the mage had some background stories, it would have been good.

If I need to choose one, I will choose DA due to its rich story and interesting companions.

But if it is possible, I like to see a game with both elements: open world of Oblivion and engaging story and companions of DA. It will be my dream game.
How about you guys?

Ultima 7 seems one of the closest one for me even though the story and companions are not as sophisticated as DA and the graphics obviously is not as good as Oblivion but the style of the game seems right for me. And you can bake and it always helps :-)

I remember that I met an NPC in a dungeon with a dragon in Ultima 7. I initiated dialogue and I realized that I met his parents in a far away city. The parents mentioned that his son was missing and I was really surprised that I met the son crawling the dungeon to get the treasure from the dragon and obviously he couldn't do that. It wasn't quest or anything but I was pretty impressive the details of the game and subtleness of the game.

Amen so many people forget or have never played Ultima 7 Quest of the Avatar. such a shame, it really changed me view on rpg's potential, Richard Garriot set some founding stone imho

[Tryggen]

Such a hatred against Oblivion.



I myself love Oblivion & Fallout 3 and i think it's because of the Open world and exploring.

I can see myself playing Oblivion & Fallout 3 far longer then Dragon Age (Still a great game with excellent story and companions) since DA gives you no real "explore-feeling".



But as people before me said, you can't compare this two great games with eachother since they're so different.

[Mordaedil]

Dark83 wrote...

Jim_uk wrote...

I think Bethesda took a step in the right direction with Fallout3, there are a couple of choices and it is possible to fail a couple of the quests but they could go a lot further. It's a huge improvement over Oblivion where the were no choices at all and the only way to fail was to die. That said I still had to have a lot of mods running to really enjoy it.

You've GOT to be ****ing kidding me.
They ****ed up Fallout 3 majorly by - and this is their own admission - putting writing as a non-priority. Not a low priority - they said writing was unimportant. In an RPG. Yeah.

Which is why we end up with the stupidest most worthless main storyline of all time. Not to mention the utter lack of the Fallout Series' signature endgame slides that tells you what the consequences of your actions were. This is pretty much the single most important bit, because it makes you feel like you actually made a difference. As opposed to setting off a nuclear weapon and having it almost be completely unrecognized.

Bethseda makes awesome sandboxes. They just need better writers. At least they got rid of the utterly brainless autoleveling enemies system which could have entire groups of random bandits show up in full daedric gear.

I loved firing rocket launchers in VATS and having the camera follow it to the mutie's eye, and the subsequent explosion in slow motion, but recognize that Bethseda is excellent at making sandboxes, not RPGs.

PROTIP: It's easy to filter radiation from water, all you need is dirt.

In all honesty, I agree. And I like Fallout 3 as a sandbox (though I think of it, really more as "Oblivion with guns" using the Fallout setting)

Bethesda are really bad writers, but they make fun sand-box games. I think they should either drop the damn pretense of having an epic story, or do as they are doing with Obsidian now on the next Fallout: Get some GOOD writers on the team and have the sandbox serve as a setting.

One of the reasons I'm looking forward to Fallout: New Vegas is because it's so completely new territory for both creators and it'll be a mix of dreams if it is done well.

If not, well...

[PhantoMSouljaX]

Few87 wrote...

I swear the people that like oblivion are all insane. It was one of the worst games ever made! There was literrally no choice whatsoever in the game. The "world" served as an interactive menu screen from which to choose dead end, one way to complete awfull quests. i imagine that the people who like oblivion are all around 18 years old and have never played reall games and think oblivion is some sort of classic. My god I wish that pathetic excuse for a game was never released. ahhhhhhh

Honestly your the one that sounds insane,if your not old enough to realize everyone is different and enjoys things about games differently,then your the one with issues.You didnt like oblivion,thats fine,but maybe john doe did,because someone does not think or feel like you do does not make them wrong or right.