I'm trying to decide whether to have Leliana equipped with a rapid-aim bow and use rapid-fire sustained ability, or to equip her with stuff that increases critical chance and use the aim sustained ability.
Archery rogue: speed or critical?
Débuté par
Makatak23
, déc. 31 2011 02:04
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#3
Posté 01 janvier 2012 - 01:52
Zaxares
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I personally like giving her several Rapid Aim items (Marjolaine's Recurve Bow, Repeater Gloves, Armsman's Tensioner) and then using the Aim sustained mode. This adds about 0.6 seconds to her aim time, which is still acceptable, and it also means she doesn't go crazy with the arrows and blow through all my special ammunition too quickly.
#4
Posté 01 janvier 2012 - 06:31
Seagloom
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Using rapid shot with rapid aim items is a waste. Leliana will fire just as fast with a rapid aim item equipped alone. Since rapid shot also prevents critical hits, and that is a big part of where archers get their damage, avoid it like the plague. That talent is only useful early on, before you find any rapid aim bows.
Instead, find a bow with rapid aim to give her, grab the lethality talent, and pile on cunning to power up her song of courage. Prioritize equipment that raises Leliana's cunning, critical chance, or critical damage.
I'm not a big fan of Aim in Origins. It will slow down her shots too much unless relying on a certain item bug that without any fixes, gives a huge bonus to speed and can effectively negate Aim's penalty. Most trick archery shots are underwhelming outside niche situations. They take too long to activate. With the right focus, Leliana does very well just plinking away with basic attacks.
Instead, find a bow with rapid aim to give her, grab the lethality talent, and pile on cunning to power up her song of courage. Prioritize equipment that raises Leliana's cunning, critical chance, or critical damage.
I'm not a big fan of Aim in Origins. It will slow down her shots too much unless relying on a certain item bug that without any fixes, gives a huge bonus to speed and can effectively negate Aim's penalty. Most trick archery shots are underwhelming outside niche situations. They take too long to activate. With the right focus, Leliana does very well just plinking away with basic attacks.
Modifié par Seagloom, 01 janvier 2012 - 06:33 .
#5
Posté 04 janvier 2012 - 05:37
Bjond
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All the nice bows will have rapid aim on them. Like Seagloom said, the only time rapid shot doesn't hurt your dps is at a very low level before you acquire +crit or rapid aim items. If you have the DLC bow, Sorrows of Arlathon, then that would be never even at low levels.
Sea's comment on Aim was VERY interesting. I was going to add that Aim doesn't pay off until you have higher crit chance and damage bonus, but the truth is that Aim almost never pays off. Sea's comment and my own (obvious) assumption based on zero thought prompted me do some calculations that prove my assumptions completely wrong and Sea 100% right. Aim is basically so bad for DPS that you (almost) never want to use it.
You can read the details and check my math if you like. Considering that I was just about to build a ranged party and was considering 2x haste (with Aim) to improve the DPS, I have to thank Seagloom profusely for opening my eyes about this particular modal. It really changes my party layout and talent/spell plans.
Sea's comment on Aim was VERY interesting. I was going to add that Aim doesn't pay off until you have higher crit chance and damage bonus, but the truth is that Aim almost never pays off. Sea's comment and my own (obvious) assumption based on zero thought prompted me do some calculations that prove my assumptions completely wrong and Sea 100% right. Aim is basically so bad for DPS that you (almost) never want to use it.
You can read the details and check my math if you like. Considering that I was just about to build a ranged party and was considering 2x haste (with Aim) to improve the DPS, I have to thank Seagloom profusely for opening my eyes about this particular modal. It really changes my party layout and talent/spell plans.
#6
Posté 04 janvier 2012 - 04:45
ncknck
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I dont think math is needed here. What is needed are items reducing attack speed animation. Since it is possible to reduce it back to 0 in the game, Aim is a FREE ability, and ALWAYS pays off, provided correct gear. Failing to achieve that, of course there is a trade-off somewhere between speed and damage.
What never pays off, is rapid shot, due to how badly bows speeds are implemented. This is the beauty of Aim, it makes all the attack speed buffs actually work. IF default bow speed would not be designed by a monkey, rapid shot would ofc dominate. As for now all it does is nothing but disabling crits. Due to "All the nice bows will have rapid aim on them. "
Havent looked into xbows.
What never pays off, is rapid shot, due to how badly bows speeds are implemented. This is the beauty of Aim, it makes all the attack speed buffs actually work. IF default bow speed would not be designed by a monkey, rapid shot would ofc dominate. As for now all it does is nothing but disabling crits. Due to "All the nice bows will have rapid aim on them. "
Havent looked into xbows.
#7
Posté 05 janvier 2012 - 01:15
Bjond
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Well, the only time Aim pays is if you have Shale's Rock Mastery running or you're using the (somesay buggy) vanilla version of the repeater gloves. Without one of those, Aim will significantly reduce your dps because you simply can't reduce the aim-time penalty enough. If you're not using those items, you need 50% base crit (100% with aim) and at least +50% in crit damage gear just to break even.
Personally, I use the "fixed" repeater glove (the 0.3s version, not the 3.0s) and while Shale helps with Aim, she's a net loss overall; ie. the dps gained from another melee or archer will more than make up for the gains you get via rock-mastery combined with the neglible output of shale herself. Also, you just can't have Shale around all the time. You can get repeater early, but that's it. One character can now use Aim. The rest have to wait until you're nearly done with the campaign before you maybe have enough +crit & +crit damage (none of my characters ever had enough in DA:O).
Obviously tastes differ. If you like Shale and/or don't mind using the overpowered version of repeater, you can make Aim pay. If not, then there's really nothing you can do to make Aim DPS higher than non-Aim DPS. The time penalty is just too large to overcome.
If you like easy to remember general "rules of thumb", then simply avoid Aim.
Personally, I use the "fixed" repeater glove (the 0.3s version, not the 3.0s) and while Shale helps with Aim, she's a net loss overall; ie. the dps gained from another melee or archer will more than make up for the gains you get via rock-mastery combined with the neglible output of shale herself. Also, you just can't have Shale around all the time. You can get repeater early, but that's it. One character can now use Aim. The rest have to wait until you're nearly done with the campaign before you maybe have enough +crit & +crit damage (none of my characters ever had enough in DA:O).
Obviously tastes differ. If you like Shale and/or don't mind using the overpowered version of repeater, you can make Aim pay. If not, then there's really nothing you can do to make Aim DPS higher than non-Aim DPS. The time penalty is just too large to overcome.
If you like easy to remember general "rules of thumb", then simply avoid Aim.
Modifié par Bjond, 05 janvier 2012 - 01:25 .
