325 réponses à ce sujet

[Lotion Soronarr]

Chrisimo wrote...
TIM clearly states that he will achieve his goal of human dominance by all means neccessary. That alone is basis enough because it allows him to do anything he needs to achieve his goal and his actions show that he has no qualms about morality. But maybe you can tell me why you think he won't act like Hitler when he gains enough power.

Which is a pretty common expression.
"No one wants to make those kinds of decisions" - that's what TIM said.
The reason why TIM has no quals about "morals" is because he can't afford to. Remember the reapers? Wouldn't it be immoral to not  do everything to stop them?

[Mecha Tengu]

knightnblu wrote...

TIM is dangerous. Each man is the hero of his own story and though he may not call himself a saint, he also would not classify himself as a devil. I recall a scholar of the Third Reich that was asked if Hitler were evil and he replied absolutely. But when asked if Hitler saw himself that way he replied absolutely not. The same could be said of TIM. He has fostered experiments on children which subjected them to torture and execution (and before you go "He didn't know anything about it and stopped it when he found out!" recall that had the program been successful he would have jumped for joy. I give you the handicapped lad that was tortured in order to control the Geth as an example of this trait and the comments made by the team leader conducting the experiments. If that isn't enough for you, how about the experiments on Grayson's daughter in the Ascension project which he most certainly did know about?

Add in assassination, theft of military property, the outright murder of Alliance marines, and God knows what else and you have a clear picture of the man's character. If you experiment on people and their children, murder their leaders both civilian and military, and work on weapons projects that have backfired endangering those same people or fed human beings to your new weapons systems (Rachni and Husks) then how is any of that justified? The human colonies that TIM was wringing his hands over were his best laboratories and that's likely why he wanted the Collectors stopped because they were wrecking his investments by taking his guinea pigs.

I wouldn't be surprised to find that old blue eyes is indoctrinated because he didn't get those freaky eyes because he likes blueberry pie. He has managed to evade the military and intelligence outfits of the most powerful races in the galaxy for decades and he just doesn't have the background to manage that feat. That means that he had a helping hand and I will bet you that it was the Reapers and everybody knows how much they love us.

With friends like TIM, who needs enemies?

Godwin'd on the third page? 

seriously? 

Stay classy Bioware Forums

[Kaiser Arian XVII]

Chrisimo wrote...

AlexXIV wrote...

TIM isn't Hitler. There may be similarities but Hitler shares similarities with all powerhungry dictators. Hitler though made some very bad mistakes from start. He was so into his hate philosphy that many people never had a doubt about his intentions. TIM though could still be seen a well meaning person, despite his ruthless ways to get results. Though I don't find him trustworthy at all. He will help you as long as you share common interests. If you get in his way or he has no more use for you, you're going into the trash bin. The hard part is to figure out when you (or Shepard) have become more trouble than you're worth to him.

The fact that you don't see it shows the dangers of this ideology. TIM is actually well meaning - just like Hitler was. He is well meaning towards the master race (which only includes those of said race who don't act against him). TIM plainly states that he will try to achive his goals by any means neccessarry. His goals are human dominance over the weaker species. Why don't you believe him?
Try to adopt his ideology for a moment. Try to view the others species as inferior - as animals, which can be used for our purpose or can be kept as pets but must not be allowed to threaten human wellbeing. You think TIM would hesitate to exterminate the Turian species if he thought the posed a threat to humanity and had the power to stop this threat?

For Prosperity and Domination of Humanity over galaxy  It's a noble goal.
Comparing the inter-species goal of T.I.M who willingly suggested working with aliens with Hitler's racism is a Fallacy. You Joined only for this? Carry your Human-Rightism-oid ideas which keeps humanity weak and less important somewhere else. It's Shepard's occasion to enhance the place of humankind in the galaxy at this Era of Great War against Reapers. What T.I.M is doing is more like the work U.S.A did in WW2 ... Opportunism isn't always bad; a good decision can make a nation/country/race dominant and prosperous for a millennium.

[AlexXIV]

We should really stop this WW2 nonsense. People don't have the right picture of things and this would turn into a discussion about WW2, not ME3. Which makes it off topic. Comparision with WW2 isn't really necessary to discuss the topic anyway.

[Mecha Tengu]

Chrisimo wrote...

AlexXIV wrote...

Chrisimo wrote...

Exactly. Organisations like this start slowly. If they are smart they don't state their agendas openly. And they would probably never speak openly about genocide even if that is the plan. They adapt their rhethoric and their methods to the situation at hand. It would be nearly impossible today for a new Hitler to come into a position of power in Germany in the same manner as Adolf Hitler back then. Today would require different methods and rhethoric.
When you read TIMs thoughts in the books it is clear that he views aliens as inferior. That doesn't mean he will say so. Of course he will use the rhethoric that will serve him best. But if you read his thoughts is is clear that even the though that something alien is better than something human is unthinkable to him.

Well it is good to keep your eyes open and be careful, especially with Cerberus. I never doubted that. But that doesn't mean we should jump to conclusions and judge prematurely. Also I didn't read the books. And I won't either, at least not until I finished ME3. Also I don't know how much canon books are for games in general. In alot of franchises games ignore facts from books and the other way round. From personal experience with TIM (in ME2) I can't say that he ever said something negative about other species.

The real problem here is the following question; At what point can someone be considered a Hitler? It seems to be that your answer would be that a person could only be considered the equivalent of Hitler when the person has done what Hitler has done. The younger Hitler who has just written finished Mein Kampf in 1925 could not be considered an equivalent of Hitler because we could not know for sure how he would develop. If we take this premise as the basis of our argument then I agree that TIM is not Hitler.
But when I compare someone to Hitler I do it because I want to prevent someone from gaining enough power to become the next Hitler. Therefore I try to identify the main criteria that made Hitler do what he did besides power. And I think the main criteria is his ideology combined with the fact that he doesn't play by any rules. The last part is actually the most imporant one. Many people have ideologies and many people view their interests as superior to others. Yet they don't do what Hitler did even if they are in a position of power. Many acknowledge that they can only act against the interests of others under certain circumstances. The only thing that limits Cerberus' actions is the amount of power the organisation has. If Cerberus gains enough power it seems highly likely that TIM wouldn't hesitate to exterminate or at least severely limit the population of a species that threatens human dominance in any way.

HITLER HITLER HITLER HITLER HITLER

can't we use Stalin or Mao for once?

[GMagnum]

dis is just a game plz calm down ever1 <33333 tbh

[AlexXIV]

Mecha Tengu wrote...
can't we use Stalin or Mao for once?

So Mao ... wasn't he chinese?

[Mecha Tengu]

AlexXIV wrote...

Mecha Tengu wrote...
can't we use Stalin or Mao for once?

So Mao ... wasn't he chinese?

Mao Zhedong

[Dean_the_Young]

AlexXIV wrote...

Thing is just Hitler has at one point been a new born cute little baby (I suspect at least he wasn't always ugly). I think you're going a bit the easy road. I am a paragon player because it is my mindset irl too. And that means for me being open minded. I don't think it is good in order to hunt fascists start hunting everyone who shows a bit of a fascist streak. It is dependant on personal history, enviroment, etc. I am sure Hitler could, under different circumstances, have become a nice guy, an asset to any society. His personal history and enviroment, his personal experience made him the 'monster' he became. So ... different people have different histories, so I think it is the good thing to do if you at least give them the chance to prove you wrong. I really don't know how TIM came to be but probably something happened. But nobody is irredeemable. Even Saren wasn't (in my paragon playthrough anyway) in the end. So yeah I think prejudice is wrong, in any of it's forms (even though it is a natural mechanism to have a first impression and evaluate a situation before the facts). Even if one's intentions are the best and one's a pacifist and philantropist.

How about we get to something far more basic.

Why should we believe the Illusive Man will seek to emulate Hitler's policies in power? There a hundreds of dictators who have ruled, and never approached Hitler's infamy. Likewise, there have been democracies that have done unconsciousable acts as well. Clearly it isn't the capacity for evil that makes someone a Hitler figure.

What makes someone Hitler-like isn't the capacity of evil, or even being evil. It requires being like Hitler in particular. Fortunately, comparisons are easier when you compare to specific, known aspects of the subjection in question. In our case, the points that made Hitler exceptional.

===


Has the Illusive Man or Cerberus ever espoused, supported, or claimed a belief of intrensic Human superiority to other races by virtue or race or genetics? (Humans are a higher race ideologies.)

Has the Illusive Man or Cerberus ever practiced, supported, attempted, or advocated the elimination or enslavement of other, inferior species, for reasons not well within the galactic norm? (Collectors, Krogan genophage, Reapers, etc.)

Has the Illusive Man or Cerberus cast innocent population groups as the scapegoat and source of all wrongs for Humanity, and pursued policies of genocide and ethnic cleansing as part of a race war?

Has the Illusive Man or Cerberus advocated or pursued expansionist wars of aggression against neighboring groups in the name of territorial expansion and racial consolidation?

Has the Illusive Man or Cerberus pursued an all-intrusive police state in line with a militaristic, race-based, hyper-nationalistic ideology of supremacy?

Is the Illusive Man or Cerberus based around a populist cult of personality?

[AlexXIV]

Mecha Tengu wrote...

AlexXIV wrote...

Mecha Tengu wrote...
can't we use Stalin or Mao for once?

So Mao ... wasn't he chinese?

Mao Zhedong

Yeah he was chinese. Or not?

[Chrisimo]

[quote]Lotion Soronnar wrote...

[quote]
Look, he doesn't need to say that directly. [/quote]

If you want to claim as a fact that he's like that, then yes, yes he has to.
[/quote]

So someone needs to say the words 'I plan to exterminate species X" for you to believe that he plans to do that?


[quote]
You just need to believe him when he says he will try to achieve human dominance by all means neccessary. [/quote]

Someone is always dominating. Fact of life.
What's wrong with humans being the ones? You rather Asari dominate? Turians? Batarians?
[/quote]

I don't have a problem with humans dominating the galaxy. But this isn't about humans in general. Would you have a problem with Cerberus dominating the Galaxy?

[quote]
Genocide is not just killing people. It starts with socially suppressing them. Like not allow them in certain jobs, or areas, etc.[/quote]

And TIM seems quite content with working with aliens.
[/quote]

So what? He is pragmatic. Hitler worked with inferior races, too. Doesn't mean anything.

[Mecha Tengu]

Dean_the_Young wrote...

AlexXIV wrote...

Thing is just Hitler has at one point been a new born cute little baby (I suspect at least he wasn't always ugly). I think you're going a bit the easy road. I am a paragon player because it is my mindset irl too. And that means for me being open minded. I don't think it is good in order to hunt fascists start hunting everyone who shows a bit of a fascist streak. It is dependant on personal history, enviroment, etc. I am sure Hitler could, under different circumstances, have become a nice guy, an asset to any society. His personal history and enviroment, his personal experience made him the 'monster' he became. So ... different people have different histories, so I think it is the good thing to do if you at least give them the chance to prove you wrong. I really don't know how TIM came to be but probably something happened. But nobody is irredeemable. Even Saren wasn't (in my paragon playthrough anyway) in the end. So yeah I think prejudice is wrong, in any of it's forms (even though it is a natural mechanism to have a first impression and evaluate a situation before the facts). Even if one's intentions are the best and one's a pacifist and philantropist.

How about we get to something far more basic.

Why should we believe the Illusive Man will seek to emulate Hitler's policies in power? There a hundreds of dictators who have ruled, and never approached Hitler's infamy. Likewise, there have been democracies that have done unconsciousable acts as well. Clearly it isn't the capacity for evil that makes someone a Hitler figure.

What makes someone Hitler-like isn't the capacity of evil, or even being evil. It requires being like Hitler in particular. Fortunately, comparisons are easier when you compare to specific, known aspects of the subjection in question. In our case, the points that made Hitler exceptional.

===


Has the Illusive Man or Cerberus ever espoused, supported, or claimed a belief of intrensic Human superiority to other races by virtue or race or genetics? (Humans are a higher race ideologies.)

Has the Illusive Man or Cerberus ever practiced, supported, attempted, or advocated the elimination or enslavement of other, inferior species, for reasons not well within the galactic norm? (Collectors, Krogan genophage, Reapers, etc.)

Has the Illusive Man or Cerberus cast innocent population groups as the scapegoat and source of all wrongs for Humanity, and pursued policies of genocide and ethnic cleansing as part of a race war?

Has the Illusive Man or Cerberus advocated or pursued expansionist wars of aggression against neighboring groups in the name of territorial expansion and racial consolidation?

Has the Illusive Man or Cerberus pursued an all-intrusive police state in line with a militaristic, race-based, hyper-nationalistic ideology of supremacy?

Is the Illusive Man or Cerberus based around a populist cult of personality?

Stalin

Modifié par Mecha Tengu, 01 janvier 2012 - 03:12 .

[Dean_the_Young]

Mecha Tengu wrote...

HITLER HITLER HITLER HITLER HITLER

can't we use Stalin or Mao for once?

Or even the Khmer Rouge?

Why not go with the cold war petty tin-pot dictators? The Latin America Juntas, or the Banana Republics. Or the African dictators.

[Dean_the_Young]

Chrisimo wrote...

So someone needs to say the words 'I plan to exterminate species X" for you to believe that he plans to do that?

Or some other proof of intent or desire.

You generally have to show the intent before you can claim the intent exists. Personal admission is one option.

I don't have a problem with humans dominating the galaxy. But this isn't about humans in general. Would you have a problem with Cerberus dominating the Galaxy?

Context depends.

So what? He is pragmatic. Hitler worked with inferior races, too. Doesn't mean anything.

Yet Hitler suppressed his inferior races even as he worked with them, while you've yet to show TIM doing anything similar.

[Dean_the_Young]

Mecha Tengu wrote...


Stalin

Most of those would still apply, though the questions would need something about economic ideological supremacy, the abolishment of private property, and a tendency towards slave labor.

[AlexXIV]

Dean_the_Young wrote...
How about we get to something far more basic.

Why should we believe the Illusive Man will seek to emulate Hitler's policies in power? There a hundreds of dictators who have ruled, and never approached Hitler's infamy. Likewise, there have been democracies that have done unconsciousable acts as well. Clearly it isn't the capacity for evil that makes someone a Hitler figure.

What makes someone Hitler-like isn't the capacity of evil, or even being evil. It requires being like Hitler in particular. Fortunately, comparisons are easier when you compare to specific, known aspects of the subjection in question. In our case, the points that made Hitler exceptional.

===


Has the Illusive Man or Cerberus ever espoused, supported, or claimed a belief of intrensic Human superiority to other races by virtue or race or genetics? (Humans are a higher race ideologies.)

Has the Illusive Man or Cerberus ever practiced, supported, attempted, or advocated the elimination or enslavement of other, inferior species, for reasons not well within the galactic norm? (Collectors, Krogan genophage, Reapers, etc.)

Has the Illusive Man or Cerberus cast innocent population groups as the scapegoat and source of all wrongs for Humanity, and pursued policies of genocide and ethnic cleansing as part of a race war?

Has the Illusive Man or Cerberus advocated or pursued expansionist wars of aggression against neighboring groups in the name of territorial expansion and racial consolidation?

Has the Illusive Man or Cerberus pursued an all-intrusive police state in line with a militaristic, race-based, hyper-nationalistic ideology of supremacy?

Is the Illusive Man or Cerberus based around a populist cult of personality?

Damnit I wanted to knock it off, but I reply anyway. I agree with you. But thing is, you said Hitler was an idiot. He was a fanatic. That can count as idiocy, mind you. Because the smart thing would have been to put fanatism aside (as long as it was possible, because he knew the atrocities he commited and hid from public would not let him remain in power from a certain point).

Anyway, Hitler wasn't an idiot in general. He was educated and knowledgable. And still he acted like the biggest idiot at times. I guess it is due to fooling himself about a couple of things. I guess you can't lie to anyone as successful as to yourself. Point being, just because someone is intelligent it doesn't keep them from going crazy at times. After all all dictators who failed at some point were smart enough to get into this position of power and seize it.

Modifié par AlexXIV, 01 janvier 2012 - 03:17 .

[Dean_the_Young]

AlexXIV wrote...

Mecha Tengu wrote...

AlexXIV wrote...

Mecha Tengu wrote...
can't we use Stalin or Mao for once?

So Mao ... wasn't he chinese?

Mao Zhedong

Yeah he was chinese. Or not?

Yes, Chinese. He's the one responsible for the greatest famine in modern history. With many more years under his belt, I believe he also surpassed Hitler's total.

[Dean_the_Young]

AlexXIV wrote...

Damnit I wanted to knock it off, but I reply anyway. I agree with you. But thing is, you said Hitler was an idiot. He was a fanatic. That can count as idiocy, mind you. Because the smart thing would have been to put fanatism aside (as long as it was possible, because he knew the atrocities he commited and hid from public would not let him remain in power from a certain point).

Anyway, Hitler wasn't and idiot in general. He was educated and knowledgable. And still he acted like the biggest idiot at times. I guess it is due to fooling himself about a couple of things. I guess you can't lie to anyone as successful as to yourself. Point being, just because someone is intelligent it doesn't keep them from going crazy at times. After all all dictators who failed at some point were smart enough to get into this position of power and seize it.

Hitler was clever, and Hitler was lucky, but he wasn't smart enough to know his own limitations. He was notorious in weighing in on things he had no expertise in, and pushing forward incredibly idiotic projects that appealed to his insanity while pushing back far more intelligent projects for stupid reasons.

He was not an idiot in all fields, but he was insane and idiotic in his visions of how to build and maintain national power once getting in power. He was very much one of those people who excelled at rising to power in a nation, not building or keeping the nation's power.

Modifié par Dean_the_Young, 01 janvier 2012 - 03:20 .

[AlexXIV]

Dean_the_Young wrote...

AlexXIV wrote...

Mecha Tengu wrote...

AlexXIV wrote...

Mecha Tengu wrote...
can't we use Stalin or Mao for once?

So Mao ... wasn't he chinese?

Mao Zhedong

Yeah he was chinese. Or not?

Yes, Chinese. He's the one responsible for the greatest famine in modern history. With many more years under his belt, I believe he also surpassed Hitler's total.

But he only did it to his own people. And he was an ally to the ... western alliance. Against the axis. Well except he supported the Koreans and Vietnamese against the USA later. Yeah politics, could make you laugh if it wasn't so sad.

[AlexXIV]

Dean_the_Young wrote...

AlexXIV wrote...

Damnit I wanted to knock it off, but I reply anyway. I agree with you. But thing is, you said Hitler was an idiot. He was a fanatic. That can count as idiocy, mind you. Because the smart thing would have been to put fanatism aside (as long as it was possible, because he knew the atrocities he commited and hid from public would not let him remain in power from a certain point).

Anyway, Hitler wasn't and idiot in general. He was educated and knowledgable. And still he acted like the biggest idiot at times. I guess it is due to fooling himself about a couple of things. I guess you can't lie to anyone as successful as to yourself. Point being, just because someone is intelligent it doesn't keep them from going crazy at times. After all all dictators who failed at some point were smart enough to get into this position of power and seize it.

Hitler was clever, and Hitler was lucky, but he wasn't smart enough to know his own limitations. He was notorious in weighing in on things he had no expertise in, and pushing forward incredibly idiotic projects that appealed to his insanity while pushing back far more intelligent projects for stupid reasons.

He was not an idiot in all fields, but he was insane and idiotic in his visions of how to build and maintain national power once getting in power. He was very much one of those people who excelled at rising to power in a nation, not building or keeping the nation's power.

One of his problems was that people around him were too scared to criticize him (openly). Instead they kept telling him how great he was. I think a case of causality. If he had been nicer, more of his advisors would have ... you know, given actual advice instead of singing praise gospel. I mean that's what advisors are for after all. If he wanted someone to sing praise gospel he would have hired singers, not generals and politicians.

[Dean_the_Young]

AlexXIV wrote...

Dean_the_Young wrote...

AlexXIV wrote...

Mecha Tengu wrote...

AlexXIV wrote...

Mecha Tengu wrote...
can't we use Stalin or Mao for once?

So Mao ... wasn't he chinese?

Mao Zhedong

Yeah he was chinese. Or not?

Yes, Chinese. He's the one responsible for the greatest famine in modern history. With many more years under his belt, I believe he also surpassed Hitler's total.

But he only did it to his own people.

Yes.

And he was an ally to the ... western alliance. Against the axis.

Not really. He only fought the Japanese briefly when he wasn't fighting the Nationalist Chinese.

Well except he supported the Koreans

Yes.

and Vietnamese against the USA later.

Not quite. Vietnam was a USSR client, not a Chinese client. China's support was charging the USSR fees to let there be transit of goods. China under Mao and Vietnam under Ho never got along.

Yeah politics, could make you laugh if it wasn't so sad.

Yes.

[nitefyre410]

Dean_the_Young wrote...

Mecha Tengu wrote...

HITLER HITLER HITLER HITLER HITLER

can't we use Stalin or Mao for once?

Or even the Khmer Rouge?

Why not go with the cold war petty tin-pot dictators? The Latin America Juntas, or the Banana Republics. Or the African dictators.

 

because hilter is the easiest and most wildly  known out of these dictators.  Though the   comparison  may not be right when you bring supermincist, the first things that come to most peoples minds are ... neo ****'s>****'s> Hilter.

Its just easy to use to elicite the image that you want put in the person head as  one is debating the point. Not that I agree with  the comparison.   Through you could  liken  Cerberus more the KKK  possible.  


Personally I don't like the comparisons at all not how correct or incorrect... TIM is a pixellated charactered not  some sociopath that helped engineered some of the  worst arocities in human history. If need  I  personal prefer to use those comparsions sparingly.  That's me  though

[Dean_the_Young]

AlexXIV wrote...

One of his problems was that people around him were too scared to criticize him (openly). Instead they kept telling him how great he was. I think a case of causality. If he had been nicer, more of his advisors would have ... you know, given actual advice instead of singing praise gospel. I mean that's what advisors are for after all. If he wanted someone to sing praise gospel he would have hired singers, not generals and politicians.

They were scared to criticize them because Hitler built an entire apparatus around imprisoning and killing anyone who did, after he overruled them anyway.

You don't have to be nice to have a feedback system, but Hitler thought he was nearly infallible. What he thought was right, he thought was right, and tried to remove anyone who told him otherwise.

Idiocy.

[AlexXIV]

Dean_the_Young wrote...

AlexXIV wrote...

One of his problems was that people around him were too scared to criticize him (openly). Instead they kept telling him how great he was. I think a case of causality. If he had been nicer, more of his advisors would have ... you know, given actual advice instead of singing praise gospel. I mean that's what advisors are for after all. If he wanted someone to sing praise gospel he would have hired singers, not generals and politicians.

They were scared to criticize them because Hitler built an entire apparatus around imprisoning and killing anyone who did, after he overruled them anyway.

You don't have to be nice to have a feedback system, but Hitler thought he was nearly infallible. What he thought was right, he thought was right, and tried to remove anyone who told him otherwise.

Idiocy.

Yeah, he was a megalomaniac. And occultist, so likely he considered himself of a sort of savior by divine right or whatever.

[Chrisimo]

[quote]Dean_the_Young wrote...

[quote]Chrisimo wrote...

[quote]Dean_the_Young wrote...

[quote]Chrisimo wrote...

[quote]Saphra Deden wrote...

[quote]Chrisimo wrote...

But if you read his thoughts is is clear that even the though that something alien is better than something human is unthinkable to him.

[/quote]

So that's why he had Shepard recruit all those aliens in ME2, huh?

[/quote]

Hitler and many of his henchmen were Untermenschen according to his own ideology. He also used creations of inferior races if they proved to be better than the creations of the master race. But that didn't change his views.

[/quote]Hitler was notorious for putting on the brakes of the 'Jewish Sciences.'

Not, mind you, that you've provided any basis that Cerberus and the Illusive Man is comparable to Hitler in this fashion, so your mistaken historical metaphor needs to back up a few miles.

[/quote]

TIM clearly states that he will achieve his goal of human dominance by all means neccessary. That alone is basis enough because it allows him to do anything he needs to achieve his goal and his actions show that he has no qualms about morality. [/quote]

No, it isn't, because you fail to understand something critical about amorality.

Amorality isn't the argument for doing anything.

Amorality is the lack of a moral reason not to do something... but the reasons to do something have to be grounded in something else, and overcome the non-moral reasons to not do the actions. Hitler's genocidal policies weren't based on logical advancement of power, they were based on the primacy of racial-purity supremacy ideologies of intrensic race superiority.
[/quote]

I never said that amorality is a reason to do something.
I said that he has no qualms about morality which means that he doesn't care for morality in any way. He cares about results, about reaching his goals. To achieve his goals he will use any means neccessary, which means that the only factor in the decision of i.e. exterminating the turians would be the usefulness of such action in relation to his goals. If it would be useful (or if he simply wants to do it and the action doesn't hurt him) he would do it, if it would hurt his goals he wouldn't.



Anyone not having the primacy of such beliefs will have to have some other reason to conduct genocide... and genocide is a horribly costly policy with few benefits.

[quote]But maybe you can tell me why you think he won't act like Hitler when he gains enough power.

[/quote]Because Hitler was an idiot, and acting like Hitler when you get to power is the best way to lose power.

Hitler didn't rise to power by acting in the ways that made Hitler horrific. Hitler destroyed his power by acting in the ways that made Hitler horrific.

Anyone who wants power, and wants to keep power, has no reason to act like Hitler.

[/quote]

Excactly. Hitler didn't rise to power by acting in the way that made him horrific. He acted smarter before he came to power. But you have not answered my question. Hitler lost the connection to reality once he gained control over germany. He lost this connection more and more over time. Again, what makes you think that Cerberus/TIm would not act in the way Hitler did after his rise to power? Because he is too smart?