269 réponses à ce sujet

[LinksOcarina]

Sylvianus wrote...

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

Sylvianus wrote...

But why is she doing that then ? What is the point of appearing stupid ? The motivation ?

She likes to see peoples' reactions to it and laughs at it on the inside? That's what I'd do.

sorry but that does not explain why she wants to do that. To laugh at other people, at her detriment, especially when we consider that she is socially awkward and that he is even aware that she may seem strange, and apologizes for that. (First meeting with her ) Why would she laugh at other at her expense ? Is she sado mazo. It's totally stupid too.

I don't know, she could have a good reason. For example, like  those who were already taken for fools, decided to play stupid, because it amused them, because they like to be under estimated, .. Because it makes people laugh when they do it;

Merrill has always been alone and the other didn't care about her. What motivation would she have to look stupid in the middle of individuals to who she seems a little intimidated ? Just for fun to see the reaction of others, without any basis, no specific reason that explains this ? It makes no sense.

No, I think it's a real personality trait.

I think it's more of a culture shock than anything else. She is Dalish after all, not a native of Kirkwall or of human contact. I think the naivety she shows is mostly due to inexperience. 

The ironic thing is her own hubris. She is trying to capture lightning in a bottle with the mirror, and instead is missing out on learning about the outside world more. She is looking backwards more than she is looking forwards, and that is her problem, that is what makes her foolish in many ways, but so likable in the process. 

[TEWR]

Sylvianus wrote...

I don't know, she could have a good reason. For example, like  those who were already taken for fools, decided to play stupid, because it amused them, because they like to be under estimated, .. Because it makes people laugh when they do it;

Actually, I think eroeru made the best case for why she acts so cute. It's a coping mechanism with the harsh realities of the world she now lives in.

I'm actually surprised I didn't think of it myself considering my own similar experience.

[TEWR]

I think it's more of a culture shock than anything else. She is Dalish after all, not a native of Kirkwall or of human contact. I think the naivety she shows is mostly due to inexperience. 

The ironic thing is her own hubris. She is trying to capture lightning in a bottle with the mirror, and instead is missing out on learning about the outside world more. She is looking backwards more than she is looking forwards, and that is her problem, that is what makes her foolish in many ways, but so likable in the process. 

Some would say that in order to move forward, you first need to know where you came from. And that's what Merrill tries to tell Aveline in Act I, if I'm reading the banter correctly

That's why I love the friendship path. It allows her to continue her work on the Eluvian without it obsessing every aspect of her life as well as letting her interact with the world.

[alex90c]

I never said I excused it. But you're using that as evidence that she's an idiot throughout the whole game, which was what I was disputing.

Act 2:

Arishok: This elf (the crazy one affected by gaatlok) was determined to lay blame at our feet.
Merrill: But your feet didn't do anything wrong! Did they?

HURRRDURRRHURRRR WHAT AN INTELLIGENT CHARACTER

Not everything is certain, so no she isn't wrong. Certainty implies that you can easily discern what is the right course of action.

To use something you talked about days ago, the King of Orzammar decision and the Anvil of the Void.

You found that decision to be one that wasn't so cut and dry. To you, it wasn't certain who should take the throne.

The same thing applies to the Mage-Templar debate and Merrill's own doubts. She's now beginning to doubt herself and quite possibly whether mages should be free. I'm certain that some part of her feels guilty for what happened when she shouldn't.

No, Anders is right. Some things are certain. To say some things aren't is plain wrong, Anders never claimed everything is certain, merely some things are, and while I find him an obnoxious wanker, he's right. Certainties? Kirkwall has a sh*tload of demons roaming around. Regarding the Mage/Templar conflict? Kirkwall is infested with blood mages, including GIGGLESQUEEE Merrill and they're a threat to the population, and it's crap like this that supports the Templar view that mages need to be locked in Circles.

To be honest, BioWare's representation of the conflict sucked, I would have found things a bit more morally grey if every goddamn mage we came across wasn't a freaking blood mage.

I edited my post to say after Act 1 I believe it was mostly a facade.

A facade she puts up consistently for seven years straight. Nah, not buying it.

[Rawgrim]

Merril and Fenris are hated because they are a pair of jrpg elves that sticks out like sore thumbs in a western rpg. Mixing artstyles is bad.

[Sylvianus]

LinksOcarina wrote...

Sylvianus wrote...

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

Sylvianus wrote...

But why is she doing that then ? What is the point of appearing stupid ? The motivation ?

She likes to see peoples' reactions to it and laughs at it on the inside? That's what I'd do.

sorry but that does not explain why she wants to do that. To laugh at other people, at her detriment, especially when we consider that she is socially awkward and that he is even aware that she may seem strange, and apologizes for that. (First meeting with her ) Why would she laugh at other at her expense ? Is she sado mazo. It's totally stupid too.

I don't know, she could have a good reason. For example, like  those who were already taken for fools, decided to play stupid, because it amused them, because they like to be under estimated, .. Because it makes people laugh when they do it;

Merrill has always been alone and the other didn't care about her. What motivation would she have to look stupid in the middle of individuals to who she seems a little intimidated ? Just for fun to see the reaction of others, without any basis, no specific reason that explains this ? It makes no sense.

No, I think it's a real personality trait.

I think it's more of a culture shock than anything else. She is Dalish after all, not a native of Kirkwall or of human contact. I think the naivety she shows is mostly due to inexperience. 

The ironic thing is her own hubris. She is trying to capture lightning in a bottle with the mirror, and instead is missing out on learning about the outside world more. She is looking backwards more than she is looking forwards, and that is her problem, that is what makes her foolish in many ways, but so likable in the process. 

Well, I am more inclined to believe that.

[sylvanaerie]

Hmm loooks like the "Why do people hate Fenris and Anders" thread turned into the "Why I hate Merrill thread"....

[Clover Rider]

sylvanaerie wrote...

Hmm loooks like the "Why do people hate Fenris and Anders" thread turned into the "Why I hate Merrill thread"....

People who hate Merrill are stupid.

[TEWR]

alex90c wrote...

No, Anders is right. Some things are certain. To say some things aren't is plain wrong, Anders never claimed everything is certain, merely some things are, and while I find him an obnoxious wanker, he's right. Certainties? Kirkwall has a sh*tload of demons roaming around. Regarding the Mage/Templar conflict? Kirkwall is infested with blood mages, including GIGGLESQUEEE Merrill and they're a threat to the population, and it's crap like this that supports the Templar view that mages need to be locked in Circles.

Anders is commenting on the Mage-Templar conflict being certain. He's commenting that mages should be free and this is a certain fact, which Merrill and her own doubts conflict with.

Thus, to Merrill things aren't certain anymore because she believed that all mages should be free and not locked up.

This is what Merrill is arguing. What Anders believes is certain fact -- Mages being free -- Merrill is now unsure of.

And even then, the issue isn't cut and dry. Although DAII's story painted it to being black and white, the issue is itself a grey one.

To be honest, BioWare's representation of the conflict sucked, I would have found things a bit more morally grey if every goddamn mage we came across wasn't a freaking blood mage.

I agree, but this discussion isn't oriented towards DAII's horrible representation of the Mage-Templar debate.

A facade she puts up consistently for seven years straight. Nah, not buying it.

Would you buy a coping mechanism for someone who's fiercely fighting depression?

If not, then we're at an impasse as it seems you're determined to hate Merrill.

You evil fiend!

Modifié par The Ethereal Writer Redux, 02 janvier 2012 - 08:57 .

[LinksOcarina]

Rawgrim wrote...

Merril and Fenris are hated because they are a pair of jrpg elves that sticks out like sore thumbs in a western rpg. Mixing artstyles is bad.

Ugh...

1. JRPG is a racist term. It means nothing except at best, a superficial understanding of art styles in a game, which in this case means nothing because the elves in the art-style fit the ****ing art style of Dragon Age II. 

2. There is no such thing as a western RPG. There are Console RPGS, also known as Light RPGs in Japan, which is what Dragon Age is, along with a lot of so called JRPGS like Final Fantasy, Persona, Dragon Quest, Xenosaga, and Earthbound, to name a few. While were at, Western games, like Deus Ex, Mass Effect, the KOTOR games, and so forth are in the same boat.

3. Other games like Skyrim, Borderlands, Wizardry, Dungeon Defenders, Warcraft III, Diablo and so forth are a mix of different genres, from Roguelikes to Dungeon Crawlers to Computer RPGs, which were mostly derived from Dungeon and Dragon-style rules, different interfaces, multi-player,  RTS's, etc. But they are still RPGs.

Please, get your facts right before you make a statement like that.

ETA:

Can I just comment on one thing, even though its off topic

To be honest, BioWare's representation of the conflict sucked, I would have found things a bit more morally grey if every goddamn mage we came across wasn't a freaking blood mage.

I did a count of the blood mages in Dragon Age II, at least the major ones we see.

Act I, we see only 3, Tahome, the **** in the Blooming Rose and Decimus. There are a few other mages involved but I dont recall them using blood magic, I do see them raising dead though. One did it willingly with the demons, one was subtle and hiding in society, and one was on the run from Starkhaven. As for the noble child who preyed on the elven children, we never saw what he was so I won't count that as blood magic.

Act II, we see three blood mages, Gasgard, Quentin and Lady Herriman. And I don't need to go into detail on them really. Otherwise, there is no real peep from blood magic that I can recall. 

Act III, all hell breaks loose. And it is mostly because of the tightened grip of Meredith. So yeah, lots of blood mages here but plot-wise it does kinda make sense. Orsino is probably the only odd man out, but he even says he never dabbled in blood magic until the right of annument was called.

I don't know, I just don't see too much of a problem here considering it was a gradual buildup and not all of the mages were blood mages. Alain, Marethari, Fenryel, and so forth were not blood mages at all as well, (although Alain was in Act III but was not evil about it) Grace too, wasnt a blood mage until Act III, so really, it is kind of a broad brush to say they were all blood mages. 

Modifié par LinksOcarina, 02 janvier 2012 - 09:10 .

[Sylvianus]

sylvanaerie wrote...

Hmm loooks like the "Why do people hate Fenris and Anders" thread turned into the "Why I hate Merrill thread"....

And why couldn't we talk about all the characters we want, while we are at it ? If bioware want absolutely that we talk about Fenris and Anders, they'll tell us.

[TEWR]

sylvanaerie wrote...

Hmm loooks like the "Why do people hate Fenris and Anders" thread turned into the "Why I hate Merrill thread"....

Well, really it's now "Why do people hate Fenris, Anders, and Merrill?"

It always happens though. They're the characters in DAII that are hated the most by some people, so it'll eventually crop up.

[Gen. Grievous]

This discussion is absurd.
No, really.

[Clover Rider]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

sylvanaerie wrote...

Hmm loooks like the "Why do people hate Fenris and Anders" thread turned into the "Why I hate Merrill thread"....

Well, really it's now "Why do people hate Fenris, Anders, and Merrill?"

It always happens though. They're the characters in DAII that are hated the most by some people, so it'll eventually crop up.

I will never get the Merrill hate.

[Rawgrim]

They look like something copied and pasted out of a Final Fantasy game. A japaneese rpg. It has "anime-graphics". It was the artstyle I was getting at.

[Gen. Grievous]

Once again boys...
ANIME SUCKS!!!

[Gen. Grievous]

Look at how they're going to ruin the Mass Efffect universe by making a movie about it in anime.
Unless that's what the "dumb masses" want...

[Gen. Grievous]

Now, to change the subject...

[Clover Rider]

Gen. Grievous wrote...

Once again boys...
ANIME SUCKS!!!

Not really and I am not a "boys" we are Geth.

[Gen. Grievous]

Who here has played Battlefront II?

[Clover Rider]

Gen. Grievous wrote...

Who here has played Battlefront II?

[TEWR]

Some Geth wrote...

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

sylvanaerie wrote...

Hmm loooks like the "Why do people hate Fenris and Anders" thread turned into the "Why I hate Merrill thread"....

Well, really it's now "Why do people hate Fenris, Anders, and Merrill?"

It always happens though. They're the characters in DAII that are hated the most by some people, so it'll eventually crop up.

I will never get the Merrill hate.

Neither will I. It's why I defend her so fiercely. Hell I pour over everything Merrill says in game -- when I can bring myself to replay DAII -- in an effort to see if there's some deeper meaning to something that deals with her.

And then I use it wherever Merrill-bashing threads appear.

[sylvanaerie]

Sylvianus wrote...

sylvanaerie wrote...

Hmm loooks like the "Why do people hate Fenris and Anders" thread turned into the "Why I hate Merrill thread"....

And why couldn't we talk about all the characters we want, while we are at it ? If bioware want absolutely that we talk about Fenris and Anders, they'll tell us.

You completely missed my point.  The topic is "Why are people so mean to Fenris and Anders?".  There are several "I hate Merrill" threads as well as "I hate Isabela" (Fill in the blank of any character, they all have some people who don't llike them).  Not saying people can't discuss it, it just goes waaaaay off topic to start in on the hate gravy train for a completely different character in the thread where two others are being discussed.  It's like a debate team with ADHD...
"And I'd like to point out...oooooshiney!" *runs off*

[Gen. Grievous]

Some Geth wrote...

Gen. Grievous wrote...

Once again boys...
ANIME SUCKS!!!

Not really and I am not a "boys" we are Geth.

Yeah, you're probably right, mindless AI.