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[ElectricZ]

A big complaint I 've seen about Mass Effect fan works or even when discussing the heroes of the story is how often characters are out of character. With as large a cast of characters as Mass Effect has, it's easy for that to happen. While it's fun to put the different characters in a variety of situations, there are a few basic traits that dominate each person that would keep them from ever associating with some of their shipmates, especially in a social setting. Would Garrus and Tali ever head out to a club for a little drinking and dancing? Would Grunt sit patiently around and listen to Zaeed's war stories?  Could the ladies of the Normandy ever just have a girls' night?

Maybe all of the above could be possible at different points in the plot. Garrus and Tali are comrades from the SR1 so that's plausible. Grunt listening to Zaeed? Zaeed's got some badass cred so Grunt might listen, for a while. Girls' night on the Normandy? Maybe after the suicide mission but my money would be on four out of five wanting to kill each other if they were in the same room before then. And let's not forget, what kind of Shepard is acting as referee? Paragon or Renegade, or somewhere in between?

What follows is a chart of the ME2 squad for a mostly paragon male shep, everybody pre-loyal, broken down thusly:
Likes - would hang out and have a beer, watch a movie, or actively defent against aggression by another character.
Respects - Not exactly pals, but is still comfortable putting his or her life in their hands. Could become friends depending on the circumstances
Tolerates - Basically works with these people because Shepard says so. Outside of that, won't be sending Christmas cards.
Hates - If Shepard is not around, might leave anyone on this list behind in a fight, or even "accidentally" engage in friendly fire.

Each category are listed in descending order.

I think this is a pretty solid reading of the SR2 crew before any loyalty missions. It's the basis I use in any fic and changes in characters are made knowing that each of them have a history with one another.  A post-ME2 list would look much different for every player, of course.

Feel free to post your own, pre or post suicide mission, or add ME1 or speculation for ME3.

Garrus
Likes: Shepard, Tali, Mordin
Respects: Thane, Kasumi, Jacob, Miranda, Samara
Tolerates: Legion, Zaeed, Jack, Grunt
Hates: None
Notes:
Likes are a given. Respect comes from skills of the team member and
loyalty to Shepard. Tolerates everyone else based on likelyhood of team
member killing innocents or committing injustice. No hatreds, even of
Cerberus crew as long as they do their jobs and follow Shepard.

Grunt
Likes: None
Respects: Shepard, Zaeed, Jack
Tolerates: Jacob, Samara, Garrus, Thane, Kasumi, Legion, Miranda, Tali, Mordin
Hates: None
Notes:
Doesn't really have friends. Respect comes from strength alone. Anybody
else isn't worth even getting to know. And hate? Why bother. Just kill
'em.

Jack
Likes: None
Respects: None
Tolerates: Shepard,
Tali, Zaeed, Grunt, Garrus, Kasumi, Mordin, Thane, Legion, Samara
Hates: Miranda, Jacob
Notes:
Likes no one. Respects no one. Tolerates everyone else based on either
mutual hatred of Cerberus or bad-assedness. Would probably hate Samara
but is smart enough to stay out of her crosshairs. Hatreds are pretty obvious.

Jacob
Likes: Miranda, Shepard, Garrus, Mordin, Kasumi
Respects: Samara, Tali
Tolerates: Zaeed, Grunt
Hates: Thane, Jack, Legion
Notes:
Likes team players who put everything aside to get the job done. Tali
would be a 'like' except for that little episode when she came aboard,
but still respects her skill as an engineer. Tolerates but does not
trust mercenaries and uncontrollable genetic experiments. Hates
assassins, thugs and sentient machines which wiped out his friends on
Eden Prime.

Kasumi
Likes: Shep, Jacob, Mordin, Tali
Respects: Garrus, Thane
Tolerates: Miranda, Jack, Legion, Samara, Zaeed,
Grunt
Hates: None
Notes: Has the hots for Jacob, likes friendly
people. Respectful of other skilled team mates but won't pursue a
friendship with stiff people. Still friendly to those she tolerates, but
would probably not pal around with them too much between missions, instead observing (spying) from a distance.

Legion
Likes: No Data Available
Respects: Tali
Tolerates: Mordin, Miranda, Garrus, Jacob, Thane, Kasumi, Samara, Zaeed, Grunt, Jack
Hates: N/A
Notes:
There was a hole. Respects creators. Does not experience emotions, but
it understands them or thinks it does. More likely to associate with
logical, scientific minds rather than emotional or unstable ones.

Miranda
Likes: Jacob
Respects: Shepard, Mordin, Garrus, Kasumi, Thane, Samara
Tolerates: Zaeed, Legion, Grunt, Tali, Jack
Hates: None
Notes:
Has a history with (and soft spot for) Jacob. Respects competency,
discipline and capability. Slips into tolerance the more emotional the
team member
gets. Doesn't return Jack's hate because that would waste energy and
accomplish nothing.

Mordin
Likes: Shepard, Garrus, Tali, Kasumi
Respects: Miranda, Jacob, Samara
Tolerates: Legion, Zaeed, Jack, Grunt
Hates: None
Notes:
Likes those who are willing to help others in need. Respects those who
try not to inflict harm but sometimes have to as an occupational hazard.
Will tolerate destructive team members as mission needs dictate.

Samara
Likes: None
Respects: Shepard
Tolerates: Legion, Mordin, Garrus, Tali, Jacob, Miranda, Kasumi, Thane, Zaeed, Grunt, Jack
Hates: None
Notes:
Has put "The Code" on hold as long as she serves Shepard, which means
everyone else gets a temporary pass at best. Tolerances are listed from least
likely to face justice at Samara's hand to most likely if they crossed
paths elsewhere.

Thane
Likes: None
Respects: Shepard, Garrus, Samara, Kasumi
Tolerates: Mordin, Tali, Jacob,
Miranda, Legion, Grunt, Jack, Zaeed
Hates: None
Notes: Admits
that he really has no friends and doesn't seek them out. Respects
discipline and skill in team mates as well as spirituality, whatever the
spirit may be. Everyone else is either targets or cover, but with a
distaste for those who cause excessive damage and unneccesary
casualties.

Tali
Likes: Shepard, Garrus, Mordin, Kasumi
Respects: Samara, Thane
Tolerates: Grunt, Zaeed, Jack
Hates: Legion, Miranda, Jacob
Notes:
Thinks of old SR1 crew as family. Likes friendly, nice people. Respects
strong team members who use their skills to protect the ship and crew,
thinks less of the meaner bully types who seem to have taken over deck
4. Hates geth and Cerberus, with the geth edging out Cerberus because of
that whole extermination/eviction thing.

Zaeed
Likes: None
Respects: Miranda, Thane, Grunt, Jack
Tolerates: Legion, Jacob, Mordin, Kasumi, Tali, Shepard,
Garrus, Samara
Hates: None
Notes: Likes? Sooner or later, they
end up dying. Why get attached? Respects anybody paying his fee or who's
good with a weapon, but that drops into tolerance when a team member is
likely to give him crap about collateral damage. And hate? That's
reserved for one Vido Santiago. Nobody else really matters.

What do y'all think? I miss anything obvious?

[jlb524]

I don't think Jack hates Jacob just because he's in Cerberus (she doesn't hate Shepard for it).

I also don't see that Jacob hates Thane or Jack...perhaps tolerates is better.

I also wouldn't say that Tali hates anyone. She tolerates the Cerberus crew and Legion.

[spirosz]

I like this idea, but this is going to turn into another "What, that's not how my favourite character thinks/works!" or some other fan favourite thing. About Jack, I don't think she actually hates anyone of the crew, not even Miranda, especially after the events of ME2. Its more of, if you bother me, I'll **** you up, but otherwise just leave me be. At least, that's the vibe I get, she obviously doesn't have to trust anyone, but that doesn't necessarily relate to the term hate, since that's a strong word to be thrown around.

[knightnblu]

After clocking Zaeed on his loyalty mission and putting a gun to his head, I would think that Zaeed respects Shepard more so than tolerates him.

[FlyinElk212]

jlb524 wrote...

I also don't see that Jacob hates Thane or Jack...perhaps tolerates is better.

Actually, after Thane's recruitment mission, Jacob is unusually hostile to him when welcoming him on the Normandy. If questioned about his hostility by Shepard he explains that he doesn't like Mercenaries, and seems to show general disapproval of Thane's inclusion on the Suicide Mission.

[Razorsedge820]

I think it is unfair to put a character's personality into a chart based on one persons opinion, everyone who plays mass effect views each character through their own eyes differently. Mass effect gives players the chance to influence those around Shep to be different so there really is no canon for any one character.

Now as for not liking someones fan fic because you don't like the way the author is writing a character just simply ignore it, fan fic is just someones wild imagination, personally fan fics don't do it for me since most of them have outrageous dreamy romance and ridiculous character development.

Modifié par Razorsedge820, 02 janvier 2012 - 06:27 .

[AgitatedLemon]

I'm interested to know where you learned "Character X likes character Y but not character Z".

Modifié par AgitatedLemon, 02 janvier 2012 - 06:28 .

[AgitatedLemon]

jeremy719 wrote...

Shepard and thane are friends if he takes the time to talk, thane says so himself. Thane respects Shepard's dedication and the sacrifices Shepard is prepared to make as well as his skill as a diplomat and with a big gun.

Shepard and basically everyone become friends after conversing with them enough.

Namely, Thane, Mordin, and Jacob are the most obvious 3.

Of course, any romance you pick up is also super friendly, but that's obvious.

[BatmanPWNS]

Well Garrus didn't want Miranda to lead the fire team and even said that no one trusts her so I wouldn't say that Garrus respects Miranda.

[AgitatedLemon]

BatmanPWNS wrote...

Well Garrus didn't want Miranda to lead the fire team and even said that no one trusts her so I wouldn't say that Garrus respects Miranda.

My Garrus has never said anything in the Suicide mission, apart from his usual combat banter. He's not even involved in any conversations.

[CptData]

The OP is ignoring ME1 squadmates entirely (except Team Dextro).

Therefore ... invalid thread is invalid.

[AgitatedLemon]

jeremy719 wrote...

AgitatedLemon wrote...

jeremy719 wrote...

Shepard and thane are friends if he takes the time to talk, thane says so himself. Thane respects Shepard's dedication and the sacrifices Shepard is prepared to make as well as his skill as a diplomat and with a big gun.

Shepard and basically everyone become friends after conversing with them enough.

Namely, Thane, Mordin, and Jacob are the most obvious 3.

Of course, any romance you pick up is also super friendly, but that's obvious.

the op refers to a (mostly) paragon shep. If you paragon talk to jack she thinks you're a whiny brat (for awhile).
I think thane is the character that would most respect parasheps ideals.
Although I can't see thane sharing a beer with Shepard. Might not be good for his condition

So was I.

Going off experience with a fully Paragon Shepard, pretty much everyone is cool with you at the end of the game, if not downright friends. The only people I could see NOT being friends (But still associates) are Jack and Zaeed.

Jacob talks about getting drunk with Shep on the citadel once it's all over.

Thane explicitly tells Shepard that he's his friend, and Shepard reiterates.

Miranda holds more of a professional respect for Shepard, but I honestly don't see why they wouldn't keep in communication.

^ Also goes for Mordin.

Legion, as we know, has his weird idolization for Shepard.

Samara says something along the lines that Thane does.

Shepard is Grunt's battlemaster, and the crew is his krantt.

Garrus, Tali, and Shepard are of course close, having been through hell twice together.

I'm not counting the DLC characters due to their canned dialogue.

[naledgeborn]

This thread is a powder keg in a volcano.

[BatmanPWNS]

AgitatedLemon wrote...

BatmanPWNS wrote...

Well Garrus didn't want Miranda to lead the fire team and even said that no one trusts her so I wouldn't say that Garrus respects Miranda.

My Garrus has never said anything in the Suicide mission, apart from his usual combat banter. He's not even involved in any conversations.

Firstly, I'd like to say that I knew you would reply to this.

You need Jack dead for Garrus to say it and here's a link to prove it . Just go to around 9:45 to 9:50 and hear Garrus say it.

Modifié par BatmanPWNS, 02 janvier 2012 - 06:54 .

[Ryzaki]

FlyinElk212 wrote...

jlb524 wrote...

I also don't see that Jacob hates Thane or Jack...perhaps tolerates is better.

Actually, after Thane's recruitment mission, Jacob is unusually hostile to him when welcoming him on the Normandy. If questioned about his hostility by Shepard he explains that he doesn't like Mercenaries, and seems to show general disapproval of Thane's inclusion on the Suicide Mission.

...using that logic shouldn't he hate Zaeed? 

[mineralica]

I think Jacob treats Zaeed and Thane equally - one is bat**** insane mercenary, another is precise and emotionally alien mercenary; where's the difference? And since he obviously likes them less than other crew, I think it will move to "hate" category, while hate being not at all correct.

Further, two couples: Miranda / Mordin and Tali / Garrus.

Miranda envies the time when Mordin was with STG. She would probably note his effectiveness as well. Mordin is renegade with a sense of ethnics - and Miranda, while generally following "ends justify the means", votes for destroying Collectors base. I think both like each other.

Now Garrus / Tali. Garrus obviously likes Tali (banter on Citadel), but Tali herself? "I have shotgun". "Are you sure it's good idea?" (Tali's response on being left to protect Garrus at his recruitment mission). Hence I think her thoughts will be at "respects" category.

[AgitatedLemon]

BatmanPWNS wrote...

AgitatedLemon wrote...

BatmanPWNS wrote...

Well Garrus didn't want Miranda to lead the fire team and even said that no one trusts her so I wouldn't say that Garrus respects Miranda.

My Garrus has never said anything in the Suicide mission, apart from his usual combat banter. He's not even involved in any conversations.

Firstly, I'd like to say that I knew you would reply to this.

You need Jack dead for Garrus to say it and here's a link to prove it . Just go to around 9:45 to 9:50 and hear Garrus say it.

Good thing you were unnecessarily hostile to me, when I didn't do anything to you.

[ElectricZ]

To reiterate, the above list is the freshly recruited squad, with no loyalty missions or romances in play. Basically the gang's gut reactions to one another. So Shepard (again, paragon in this case) hasn't had a chance to win (or browbeat) anybody over.

jlb524 wrote...

I don't think Jack hates Jacob just because he's in Cerberus (she doesn't hate Shepard for it).

I also don't see that Jacob hates Thane or Jack...perhaps tolerates is better.

I also wouldn't say that Tali hates anyone. She tolerates the Cerberus crew and Legion.

You might be right about Jack/Jacob because Jacob's not a "true believer" in Cerberus... But he wears the uniform and Jack really doesn't like Cerberus... This is definitely a relationship that could improve, especially after Shepard & Co. break away from the Illusive Man.

The bit with Thane, though, comes from the dialogue that FlyinElk512 mentioned. For whatever reason, Jacob does NOT like Thane when he comes aboard and it sounds like it might be a problem.

spiros9110 wrote...

I like this idea, but this is going to turn into another "What, that's not how my
favourite character thinks/works!" or some other fan favourite thing.
About Jack, I don't think she actually hates anyone of the crew, not
even Miranda, especially after the events of ME2. Its more of, if you
bother me, I'll **** you up, but otherwise just leave me be. At least,
that's the vibe I get, she obviously doesn't have to trust anyone, but
that doesn't necessarily relate to the term hate, since that's a strong
word to be thrown around.

Could be I got Jack pegged wrong, too... But I still think at the start her blind hatred of Cerberus would mean she'd put a bullet in Jacob's back if she had a chance.

As for this turning into a subjective my character thread, eh... so be it. If it doesn't we might get some decent discussion on it. If it does, well, that's the internet for ya. We tried.

Razorsedge820 wrote...

I think it is unfair to put a
character's personality into a chart based on one persons opinion,
everyone who plays mass effect views each character through their own
eyes differently. Mass effect gives players the chance to influence
those around Shep to be different so there really is no canon for any
one character.

I would say that's true to a certain point, but there is a basic character framework in place that shouldn't be ignored, just like it would  not ring true if people were talking about warp drive, time travel, or magic in the ME universe. If someone were to want to talk about what happens if Miranda and Jack went out shopping for shoes, there's a good chance it would not be taken seriously for several different reasons based on what we know of these characters in the game. Now if you wanted to write a story about the two of them as friends, you'd at least have to throw in some kind of back story to explain just how that came about. In this case it's not one person's opinion - they were going to kill each other on the ship and everybody who played the game saw this. Every person who reads a fic saying otherwise would want the dots connected... and truthfully a story explaining how that could happen might just be an interesting read.

AgitatedLemon wrote...

I'm interested to know where you learned "Character X likes character Y but not character Z".

Mostly from what happens in the game, with a fair amount of guestimation on my part. I don't claim to be the crew's psychologist or have any knowledge of ME outside of what's available to anybody else, nor do I expect what I've written here to be taken as cannon.

In short, it's just my opinion.

BatmanPWNS wrote...

Well Garrus didn't want Miranda to
lead the fire team and even said that no one trusts her so I wouldn't
say that Garrus respects Miranda.

True, but  comes on at the end of the suicide mission, and only if Jack is not around to voice her opinion. Otherwise his only comment on any of the Cerberus crew is they get along fine and that he appreciates that they seem to give him props for being part of the crew that took down Sovereign. 

I've always wondered though if Garrus' line in the suicide mission briefing is a remnant of some deeper conflict they were going to have with Garrus and Miranda, like the one between Mordin and Grunt that got cut, or if they just needed a backup person to object to Miranda being the fire team leader if Jack weren't around...

[BatmanPWNS]

AgitatedLemon wrote...

BatmanPWNS wrote...

AgitatedLemon wrote...

BatmanPWNS wrote...

Well Garrus didn't want Miranda to lead the fire team and even said that no one trusts her so I wouldn't say that Garrus respects Miranda.

My Garrus has never said anything in the Suicide mission, apart from his usual combat banter. He's not even involved in any conversations.

Firstly, I'd like to say that I knew you would reply to this.

You need Jack dead for Garrus to say it and here's a link to prove it . Just go to around 9:45 to 9:50 and hear Garrus say it.

Good thing you were unnecessarily hostile to me, when I didn't do anything to you.

Hostile? What I do hostile?

[ElectricZ]

CptData wrote...

The OP is ignoring ME1 squadmates entirely (except Team Dextro).

Therefore ... invalid thread is invalid.

By all means, whip up an ME1 crew list!

Discussions work better when people actually discuss.

[AgitatedLemon]

BatmanPWNS wrote...

AgitatedLemon wrote...

BatmanPWNS wrote...

AgitatedLemon wrote...

BatmanPWNS wrote...

Well Garrus didn't want Miranda to lead the fire team and even said that no one trusts her so I wouldn't say that Garrus respects Miranda.

My Garrus has never said anything in the Suicide mission, apart from his usual combat banter. He's not even involved in any conversations.

Firstly, I'd like to say that I knew you would reply to this.

You need Jack dead for Garrus to say it and here's a link to prove it . Just go to around 9:45 to 9:50 and hear Garrus say it.

Good thing you were unnecessarily hostile to me, when I didn't do anything to you.

Hostile? What I do hostile?

When you say "I just KNEW you'd reply", it comes off as hostile to the receiving party.