457 réponses à ce sujet

[HiroVoid]

Kyriani Agrivar wrote...

I'm a little late to weigh in on the voiced protagonist thing but...

I don't mind a voiced protagonist... IF and only IF multiple voice options are available for each gender. Three to five at least so that there's a reasonable chance to have a voice match the character. Otherwise you run the risk of causing a disconnect between the player and their character by virtue of the voice just not sounding right with the appearance the player has chosen.This was my issue in DA2. The hawke male voice works fine for any character with dark colored hair and facial hair (basically the default hawke) but when you make a young looking blonde guy? Well let's just say the voice sounds very strange to me. If I had a younger sounding voice for my hawke, or as many options as origins had for voices, I would have identified with him alot more I think.

Unfortunately voice acting is expensive and paying multiple actors to do protagonist dialogues would probably break the budget alotted for the game. If a company could make such an investment I'd say go for it otherwise I'd say stick with a silent protagonist. Most RPG's are very story driven and involve numerous dialogue interactions between the player and various NPC's. Non voiced protagonists typically have a few voice options at creation simply for combat and interaction audio and thus have the advantage of letting the player decide how they sound when speaking.

Actually, I think its less voice acting being expensive and more that voice acting takes up a ton of space.

[Heimdall]

HiroVoid wrote...

Kyriani Agrivar wrote...

I'm a little late to weigh in on the voiced protagonist thing but...

I don't mind a voiced protagonist... IF and only IF multiple voice options are available for each gender. Three to five at least so that there's a reasonable chance to have a voice match the character. Otherwise you run the risk of causing a disconnect between the player and their character by virtue of the voice just not sounding right with the appearance the player has chosen.This was my issue in DA2. The hawke male voice works fine for any character with dark colored hair and facial hair (basically the default hawke) but when you make a young looking blonde guy? Well let's just say the voice sounds very strange to me. If I had a younger sounding voice for my hawke, or as many options as origins had for voices, I would have identified with him alot more I think.

Unfortunately voice acting is expensive and paying multiple actors to do protagonist dialogues would probably break the budget alotted for the game. If a company could make such an investment I'd say go for it otherwise I'd say stick with a silent protagonist. Most RPG's are very story driven and involve numerous dialogue interactions between the player and various NPC's. Non voiced protagonists typically have a few voice options at creation simply for combat and interaction audio and thus have the advantage of letting the player decide how they sound when speaking.

Actually, I think its less voice acting being expensive and more that voice acting takes up a ton of space.

Partly, but think about it.  For every conversation that an NPC has, the protagonist has lines.  The protagonist's voice could easily take up and/or cost almost as much as all NPC voices put together given the multiple options.  When you start multiplying that things get difficult and expensive.

[Sacred_Fantasy]

Morroian wrote...

Sacred_Fantasy wrote...

How can I be wrong when I was just stating a preference? It's everything to do with how I perceive my character's origin  should be and how Kirkwall's people should response to it.

You may have thought they should respond differently but the fact is the NPC response to Hawke changed from Act 1 to Act 2 and to Act 3 clearly due to Hawke's changing circumstances so its disingenuous to suggest that there was no response.

All those "responses" have no ground to support my character's creation origin. A typical traditional medieval noble knight didn't ONLY have an empty mansion.He had castle, land such as Highever, title to reflect his position such as Teryn Cousland, etc.. We know little of Amell's origin except that  Leandra did owned a mansion which had been sold to thugs by Gamlen. And you want me to acknowledge all those responses based on this old empty mansion alone?

Modifié par Sacred_Fantasy, 13 janvier 2012 - 03:12 .

[Wishpig]

Well, counter to Skyrim is bioware's own HUGELY successful SWTOR and the ME series. Both of which have been praised for having voiced protagonists.

Skyrim may have proved the silent protagonist is not dead, but with the exception of DA2, bioware has been patted on the back for having voiced main characters.

Personally I like voiced AND silent. I think both have very strong strengths but very glaring weaknesses.

A silent protagonist allows you much more freedom in crafting your characters personality. It also allows you to imagine your characters voice. Nothing was worse than spending 30 minutes creating the perfect portly and evil Sith Inquisitor, but having his voice TOTALLY not fit his body. Ruined the character for me. In old republic I have to build the character around the voice... that's frustrating.

But having a voice character really makes the character feel real (relatively speaking). Many times seeing Shepard getting emotional is far more effective than reading a bunch of dialogue. A voiced character makes it far easier for me to see the protagonist as their own character.

Both can be done well (see ME and BG2 as an example). And both can be done wrong (see Old Republic and  for an example).

And don't get me wrong, I love Old Republic... but my major complaint is the whole voiced protagonist system. It's SO broken.That's me personally, critics and many gamers seem to love it though.

For me, DA3 could go either way, as long as the story is strong I don't care if the main character is Gordon Freeman or Shepard in the year 1,000. Honestly, I liked the dialogue in DA and DA2. Neither more than the other really.

Modifié par Wishpig, 13 janvier 2012 - 04:52 .

[Plaintiff]

Sacred_Fantasy wrote...

Plaintiff wrote...

And this series of non sequiturs was supposed to prove... what, exactly?

None of that has anything to do with anything. You said that nobody in Kirkwall reacts to Hawke's newfound nobility. I proved you wrong. You then proceeded to spew a fountain of irrelevent arguments.

How can I be wrong when I was just stating a preference? It's everything to do with how I perceive my character's origin  should be and how Kirkwall's people should response to it. And why are you quoting me in the first place? I was responding to other people's post regarding origins choices and I agree with him since I can create my noble knight character as Cousland very well in DAO as oppose to Hawke in DA 2. Wheter I expect more or less response from Kirkwall people is not your character's problem. As I said, Hawke did not fit to be my character due to his origin and how people react to it. Are you playing the same character as I did? 
 

Plaintiff wrote...

Is English your second, or possibly third language?

Insulting other people is not allowed here and you have just violating the forum's rule. Since, John already quoted your remark, I see no reason to report you. 

I was not insulting you. I was asking a serious question. Your posts are cobbled together from a series of disparate sentences that at no point form a cohesive paragraph. I responded to one point and you reacted by branching off on like, five different, unrelated tangents. 

Disrespect was not my intent. I seriously and honestly do not have a single goddamn clue what you were actually trying to tell me. And I read the thing through more than twice.

Precisely how much response you expect in regard to Hawke's change of status is not important. You unequivocally stated that there was none. I pointed out several specific instances where Hawke's ascension was indeed acknowledged. That is all I was doing. You are "wrong" because your statement conflicted with established reality. It's that simple.

Modifié par Plaintiff, 13 janvier 2012 - 05:32 .

[LobselVith8]

Corine_esq wrote...

What to say...I don't like Elders Scroll games at all.  I think that they are a giant world of side quest of little import.  Kind of like doing chores in a game.  My arguement for a silent protagonist is that they are the perfect picture of a Taoist disciple where everything molds them, but I've always felt that with a voice actor you can actually experiance a story with narrative and passion.  The further the main character gets away from being a doll, the better in my opinion.  Sorry, first post because having an empty world like Skyrim scares the ghost out of me.

I never saw Skyrim as empty. People were doing things in the different Holds, there was activity, people reacted to the protagonist and his (or her) skills and actions. I liked that the protagonist could be proactive, and that the dichotomy between Stormcloaks and the Legion didn't villify either side, even if the protagonist sided with one over the other. I honestly wished that the developers had handled Orsino and Meredith like Tullius and Ulfric were handled, instead of making them, and virtually every mage and templar, into caricatures.

As for Hawke, I don't think I disagree with you. I didn't like how Bioware handled their character, who never felt like my character since he was already pre-made, and even the dialogue options had him saying something completely different than what I chose for him to say. I found Hawke to be incredibly passive. He doesn't really seem to do much on his own initiative, doesn't seem particularly bright, and can be viewed as lazy.

[Sacred_Fantasy]

Plaintiff wrote...
Precisely how much response you expect in regard to Hawke's change of status is not important. You unequivocally stated that there was none. I pointed out several specific instances where Hawke's ascension was indeed acknowledged. That is all I was doing. You are "wrong" because your statement conflicted with established reality. It's that simple.

1. You said everyone calling him "Serrah" and "Messere",
The captain guard  also address him as "Serrah" even before Hawke was allowed to enter Kirkwall. Therefore, I interpreted "Serrah" or "Messere"  is equaivalent to modern day's "sir" or "mister" which has no weight to anyone's status. It just a respectful way to address ANY people.

2. You said, the viscount ask for personal favors.
The viscount ask for personal favors because Hawke is the only one who can negotiate with the Qunari.Also, Hawke is not the only one who attempted to rescue the viscount's son. There's a group of thugs hunting for reward too. Therefore I fail to see how this "response" has any weight to Hawke's nobility.

3. You said Aveline constantly remind him of his responsibility and position. 
As far as I concern, Aveline never mentioned anything about what kind of responsibity and position. Therefore she could meant that Hawke's responsibility to hs mother. The story never provides any detail about Hawke's position and responsibility as a noble. We know he is not council's member and he has no obligation to the viscount either.

4. You said, Grand Cleric Elthina telling Hawke she's glad to see the Amell's returning to Hightown.
So? What does that has anything to do with Hawke being a noble?  Hightown is not populated by nobles only. It's a section for merchants and wealthy commoners too.

Every "spesific instance" you mentioned has no bearing to Hawke's nobility because I can intrepet such responses in different ways. 

Modifié par Sacred_Fantasy, 13 janvier 2012 - 08:09 .

[King_0_Hell]

The problem is that Dragon Age is currently stuck in the "old style" of gaming. They pretty much kept to what they did in DA1 and just gave it a new story.

Skyrim shows what a company can truely pull off when they sit down, and really put the time and effort into a game - the results were a game that sold more copies in the UK than Call of Duty over the Xmas period to become the number 1 game

http://www.vg247.com...mas-number-one/

Wheneve you compare the two games, DA just feels like a very "cheap" attempt at an RPG, and one that some might say has been sold while still in the idea's phase of it's development

[coomber]

I haven't played DA2 but I'll take DA:O over Skyrim any day. Far better interface and none of the damn bugs!

[Ricvenart]

Sacred_Fantasy wrote...

Morroian wrote...

Sacred_Fantasy wrote...

How can I be wrong when I was just stating a preference? It's everything to do with how I perceive my character's origin  should be and how Kirkwall's people should response to it.

You may have thought they should respond differently but the fact is the NPC response to Hawke changed from Act 1 to Act 2 and to Act 3 clearly due to Hawke's changing circumstances so its disingenuous to suggest that there was no response.

All those "responses" have no ground to support my character's creation origin. A typical traditional medieval noble knight didn't ONLY have an empty mansion.He had castle, land such as Highever, title to reflect his position such as Teryn Cousland, etc.. We know little of Amell's origin except that  Leandra did owned a mansion which had been sold to thugs by Gamlen. And you want me to acknowledge all those responses based on this old empty mansion alone?

You can be wrong if that personal preferance is used as an answer to something, next math exam you have fill out the answer sheet with personal preference, I'm sure you'll do really we'll. Besides what you did was nit pick, lie and grasp at straws to bash a game without justification. Things like the "change in fortune" when you only have 50 gold to your name, read between the lines, don't take everything at face value and realise some words in the english language have more then one meaning, fortune not only meaning money but luck, besides which owning a manor in the nice part of town is considered rich, sure you can't use it to purchase a weapon but it has value. Or would your rather have your handheld and be bluntly told point blank "GratZ on the cool new diggs man".

All those response are on something no game does to the extent you seem to claim they do, not even your precious skyrim which is the worst of them all, somehow having 1/5th of the total skill level makes you a master of it that all guards become aware of it then immediately follow it up with some insult based on another skill, being new to a guild when your the leader, or complaining about having your sweetroll stolen when you've save the land.
In all honesty, what game out there would support your characters origin story like that? Apply that in Skyrim and see how well it holds up when you're being beheaded and the town you own is gone and no one calls you Jarl. At least in DA theres some defense in deniability, you simply can't visit your hold, you've crossed the sea, you're on the run for a reason that is told and if thats so bad that your character is on the run before of a mage sister forced on you then how do you feel about being beheaded for no reason or being the dragonborn. Or simply it's not on the list of areas you can visit right now and your trying to infiltrate kirkwall.

Your mearly nitpicking at tiny things to bash a game without justification or point to get it to copy another game, instead of understanding it's not that sort of RPG game.
None of you're arguement have a leg to stand on when the slightest bit of scrutiny is applied. The mansion is nothing and of no value and the best you come up with is it's empty. Yes you're home in skyrim is filled with life as your house carl does nothing but pester you with "my thane" every 10 seconds. Even though Sandal only ever said one word he was less annoying, with more personality and emotion then that.

[Sacred_Fantasy]

Ricvenart wrote...

Sacred_Fantasy wrote...

Morroian wrote...

Sacred_Fantasy wrote...

How can I be wrong when I was just stating a preference? It's everything to do with how I perceive my character's origin  should be and how Kirkwall's people should response to it.

You may have thought they should respond differently but the fact is the NPC response to Hawke changed from Act 1 to Act 2 and to Act 3 clearly due to Hawke's changing circumstances so its disingenuous to suggest that there was no response.

All those "responses" have no ground to support my character's creation origin. A typical traditional medieval noble knight didn't ONLY have an empty mansion.He had castle, land such as Highever, title to reflect his position such as Teryn Cousland, etc.. We know little of Amell's origin except that  Leandra did owned a mansion which had been sold to thugs by Gamlen. And you want me to acknowledge all those responses based on this old empty mansion alone?

You can be wrong if that personal preferance is used as an answer to something, next math exam you have fill out the answer sheet with personal preference, I'm sure you'll do really we'll.

Except that I don't do math exam, I merely stated why I like to eat orange over apple as in why I prefer Cousland's origin compare to Hawke's origin

Ricvenart wrote...

Besides what you did was nit pick, lie and grasp at straws to bash a game without justification. Things like the "change in fortune" when you only have 50 gold to your name, read between the lines, don't take everything at face value and realise some words in the english language have more then one meaning, fortune not only meaning money but luck,

Bethany is taken away or died or become a warden as the result of the expedition just to get that mansion is hardly called a fortune unless it works for you since it didn't do any good to me.

Ricvenart wrote...


besides which owning a manor in the nice part of town is considered rich, sure you can't use it to purchase a weapon but it has value. Or would your rather have your handheld and be bluntly told point blank "GratZ on the cool new diggs man".

How about something like rank and title like Bann Teagan or Teryn Cousland?  

I stop reading your post after above quote. Sorry. 

Modifié par Sacred_Fantasy, 14 janvier 2012 - 12:23 .

[Plaintiff]

Sacred_Fantasy wrote...

Ricvenart wrote...

Besides what you did was nit pick, lie and grasp at straws to bash a game without justification. Things like the "change in fortune" when you only have 50 gold to your name, read between the lines, don't take everything at face value and realise some words in the english language have more then one meaning, fortune not only meaning money but luck,

Bethany is taken away or died or become a warden as the result of the expedition just to get that mansion is hardly called a fortune unless it works for you since it didn't do any good to me.

"Change of fortune" is just a common turn of phrase for a change of circumstance, or a change in luck. It can be a good or a bad thing.

I am currently unemployed. If I get a job, that will be a "change of fortune". Will I have a fortune? No, but my fortunes will have changed.

Fenris used to be a slave. When he escaped, that was a "change of fortune". Aveline used to be married. When her husband died, that was a "change of fortune". Merril used to be First of her clan and now she lives alone in the Alienage, that is a "change of fortune". Anders used to be a Grey Warden, now he lives in a sewer. That is a "change of fortune". Isabela used to be a pirate captain. When her ship ran aground and left her stranded in Kirkwall, that was a "change in fortune".

When the Arishok points out Hawke's "fortunes have changed", all he means is that Hawke has experienced a change of circumstance. He gained a mansion and lost a sibling. Maybe you don't think it was "worth it". That's a fair enough judgement, but it has nothing to do with the quality of the game. It's just an extremely common turn of phrase in the English language, there is nothing wrong with using it in the context of Hawke's shifting circumstances.

Modifié par Plaintiff, 14 janvier 2012 - 03:36 .

[Silfren]

Sacred_Fantasy wrote...

1. You said everyone calling him "Serrah" and "Messere",
The captain guard  also address him as "Serrah" even before Hawke was allowed to enter Kirkwall. Therefore, I interpreted "Serrah" or "Messere"  is equaivalent to modern day's "sir" or "mister" which has no weight to anyone's status. It just a respectful way to address ANY people.

You're incorrect, they very much are terms denoting status. 

Similarities to the words notwithstanding, serah and messere are not merely archaic equivalents for the modern understanding of "sir" and "mister," no.  See this quote by Gaider, here.  They are gender-neutral terms, serah being used to address someone of equal or lesser rank, and messere used as a term of respect, also presumably used for those of higher rank.

Modifié par Silfren, 14 janvier 2012 - 09:39 .

[Xerxes52]

There are a few things that Skyrim did well that Bioware could learn from, such as:

Open world setting.
Game continuing after the end of the main questline.
Endless supply of random side jobs, mobs replenishing after a few in-game weeks.
Streamlined leveling system (Health, Magicka, Stamina).
Amazing musical score.

But they did fall flat in some areas:

Voiceless main character (Mass Effect and DA2 have spoiled me, and FUS RO DAH!!! doesn't count).
Bugginess (quest breakage being the worst offender).
Flat characters (no real personality, heavily recycled voice actors, people acting solely as quest dispensaries).
Minimal storytelling.
Killable companions (Oops, dragon killed Lydia again, back to my save point).

If Bioware can take the good without getting any of the bad, then I would be fine if they stole a few ideas from Skyrim.

[Morroian]

Sacred_Fantasy wrote...

Ricvenart wrote...

Besides what you did was nit pick, lie and grasp at straws to bash a game without justification. Things like the "change in fortune" when you only have 50 gold to your name, read between the lines, don't take everything at face value and realise some words in the english language have more then one meaning, fortune not only meaning money but luck,

Bethany is taken away or died or become a warden as the result of the expedition just to get that mansion is hardly called a fortune unless it works for you since it didn't do any good to me.

 
You're ignoring everything else. Its not an either or situation, someone can have a personal tragedy occur but other good things happen to them and still be referred to as having a change in fortune.

Modifié par Morroian, 14 janvier 2012 - 10:46 .

[Wulfram]

Xerxes52 wrote...

There are a few things that Skyrim did well that Bioware could learn from, such as:

Open world setting.
Game continuing after the end of the main questline.
Endless supply of random side jobs, mobs replenishing after a few in-game weeks.
Streamlined leveling system (Health, Magicka, Stamina).

I hope none of these appear in DA3.  It's not like levelling in DA is at all complicated anyway.

Amazing musical score.

Wasn't that good

But they did fall flat in some areas:

Voiceless main character (Mass Effect and DA2 have spoiled me, and FUS RO DAH!!! doesn't count).

I like the voiceless main character.  Though I would expect a Bioware game to have much less minimally written dialogue for the PC

Bugginess (quest breakage being the worst offender).

Haven't found it particularly bad

Flat characters (no real personality, heavily recycled voice actors, people acting solely as quest dispensaries).
Minimal storytelling.

Agreed there.

Killable companions (Oops, dragon killed Lydia again, back to my save point).

Companions don't die all that often for me.  Usually only if I kill them myself by accident, though I believe some area of effect attacks can get them,

Modifié par Wulfram, 14 janvier 2012 - 10:45 .

[Curlain]

Wulfram wrote...


I don't recall any armour like this in previous Elder Scrolls games, for example

.(Don't give me that look Synnoeve, it's just for illustration)

Umm,

from the cover of The Elder Scrolls 1: Arena:


Or ingame images from The Elder Scrolls 2:Daggerfall:











And those npc Daggerfall images were tamer then some I remember you coming across such as in the Houses of Debilla (or however you spell the beauty goddess's name), though with the graphics of those days it didn't really make any difference. Truth is though chain-mail bikini has a history in the Elder Scrolls art style, only in more recent game editions has the art shifted (with Morrowind onwards) towards more functional appearing armour for females. So that armour isn't as out of place as you think in the Elder Scrolls.

[CrimsonZephyr]

The Thalmor should be the ideological guide for any elf. Even if they're second-class citizens, if they don't emulate fascism, the story isn't gray enough to compensate for the heavy amount of "humans are evil, elves are poor and oppressed."

Show elves being brutal, bloodthirsty, and monstrous, as much as any other race. The fantasy!Jew/Romani portrayal wears thin after awhile.

[ApuLunas]

skyrim? ffs skyrim? bethesda should learn from bioware!
arena and daggerfall (elder scrolls chapter I and II) were good games, but the rest are nothing more than disappointment

Modifié par ApuLunas, 15 janvier 2012 - 09:34 .

[Wulfram]

Curlain wrote...

And those npc Daggerfall images were tamer then some I remember you coming across such as in the Houses of Debilla (or however you spell the beauty goddess's name), though with the graphics of those days it didn't really make any difference. Truth is though chain-mail bikini has a history in the Elder Scrolls art style, only in more recent game editions has the art shifted (with Morrowind onwards) towards more functional appearing armour for females. So that armour isn't as out of place as you think in the Elder Scrolls.

The pictures you're showing are of clothes not armour.  And anyway, my point was that the art style changed between Oblivion and Skyrim, which your reply reinforces - it's changed repeatedly during the series.

[Plaintiff]

CrimsonZephyr wrote...

The Thalmor should be the ideological guide for any elf. Even if they're second-class citizens, if they don't emulate fascism, the story isn't gray enough to compensate for the heavy amount of "humans are evil, elves are poor and oppressed."

Show elves being brutal, bloodthirsty, and monstrous, as much as any other race. The fantasy!Jew/Romani portrayal wears thin after awhile.

Pretty sure the Dalish already do that perfectly well. They're constantly bragging about how awesome their long-lost culture and how totally superior they are with their immortality and unfathomable magical knowledge, de3spite no longer possessing either of those things..

I don't doubt that if roles were reversed, the elves would be treating humans equally badly, if not worse. Consider that under human rule, City Elves are still able to obtain impressive positions, like Fiona the Grand Enchanter.

There's nothing really "grey" about the Thalmor. They're just dicks.

Modifié par Plaintiff, 15 janvier 2012 - 08:12 .

[CrimsonZephyr]

Plaintiff wrote...

CrimsonZephyr wrote...

The Thalmor should be the ideological guide for any elf. Even if they're second-class citizens, if they don't emulate fascism, the story isn't gray enough to compensate for the heavy amount of "humans are evil, elves are poor and oppressed."

Show elves being brutal, bloodthirsty, and monstrous, as much as any other race. The fantasy!Jew/Romani portrayal wears thin after awhile.

Pretty sure the Dalish already do that perfectly well. They're constantly bragging about how awesome their long-lost culture and how totally superior they are with their immortality and unfathomable magical knowledge, de3spite no longer possessing either of those things..

I don't doubt that if roles were reversed, the elves would be treating humans equally badly, if not worse. Consider that under human rule, City Elves are still able to obtain impressive positions, like Fiona the Grand Enchanter.

There's nothing really "grey" about the Thalmor. They're just dicks.

Have a plot line start with them recovering the Dales...and then turning into a fascistic police state that sacrifices tens of thousands of Orlesian humans to demon-gods.

Basically, make the Dalish as completely undeserving of having land and power in the Dales as the humans and Qunari are. Show them resorting to the most wanton butchery possible.

Modifié par CrimsonZephyr, 15 janvier 2012 - 11:52 .

[yaw]

Cyberstrike nTo wrote...

ADelusiveMan wrote...

I do not want a silent protagonist. Making Hawke speak was a step in the right direction.

I have to agree. A silent protagonist without an in-game reason why s/he is silient is HUGE step backwards. It just barely works Skyrim and IMHO it looks stupid to have an NPC essentionaly having a one-sided conversation with a silent character. 

S/he ISN'T silent, though. There's dialogue choices, there's communication. Whether a voice actor performs those lines for us or not, they're still being spoken in-game. A 'silent protagonist' and a mute character is not the same thing. So this is not an issue. 

Whether or not it 'looks stupid' to the player is objective. Personally, I read and hear the dialouge in my head when I'm choosing it, so it all goes smoothly for me. In fact, my protagonist saying something completely unexpected from my choice is what looks stupid to me.

[LinksOcarina]

ApuLunas wrote...

skyrim? ffs skyrim? bethesda should learn from bioware!
arena and daggerfall (elder scrolls chapter I and II) were good games, but the rest are nothing more than disappointment

Actually, Morrowind is perhaps the best game they made in the entire series, because it blended the magic of Daggerfall in terms of actual role-playing with more modern mechanics that make it a playable game. 

At least that is how I see it. I love Daggerfall, but the game has not aged to well...

[ApuLunas]

LinksOcarina wrote...

ApuLunas wrote...

skyrim? ffs skyrim? bethesda should learn from bioware!
arena and daggerfall (elder scrolls chapter I and II) were good games, but the rest are nothing more than disappointment

Actually, Morrowind is perhaps the best game they made in the entire series, because it blended the magic of Daggerfall in terms of actual role-playing with more modern mechanics that make it a playable game. 

At least that is how I see it. I love Daggerfall, but the game has not aged to well...

well dude, a female called me my love in private chat, and false incarnate when i stopped private chat. that kind of absurdity was so common in morrowind (also in oblivion and skyrim). how did you feel any role play i wonder! i believe the most important parts of rpg are story and story telling and bethesda never succeeded in those two.