Aller au contenu

Photo

Bioware taking inspiration from Skyrim, hope for...


457 réponses à ce sujet

#451
Fast Jimmy

Fast Jimmy
  • Members
  • 17 939 messages
Why does everyone think this is so impossible or so expensive???
Nothing is truly impossible about it, but it is exponentially more expensive than just changing text.

How many hours of dialogue do you think would need to be recorded? 
I'm not sure about DA2, but DAO had 750,00 words of dialogue. If you were to speak that, straight, with no interruptions, that would be roughly 83 hours. However, the time taken to do re-takes and re-dos would be much higher. Felicia Day, the actress used for MotA, said she did 12 hours alone for her dialogue, which is much less than that in game.

Throw in the fact that you'd have to multiply it by three for DA2, for a diplomatic, sarcastic and aggressive Hawke and you've got a SIGNIFICANTLY higher cost than just changing text.

How many different actors/actresses?
For DA2, there were two. The male Hawke was Nicholas Boulton and the female Hawke is voiced by Jo Wyatt. Nicholas Boulton is a  British actor, who has appeared in movies such as Shakespeare in Love, the British show Doctors, as well as a number of video game acting gigs. Jo Wyatt was originally known for her role in the British show Luna, but has many roles in the video game world as well.

At what wage?  I'm sure they would vary from actor to actor.
It would vary. But imagine how much it would cost to hire an established actor versus doing a silent movie.

Video game length, not to mention choices, which Bioware has always thrived off of, turns the production values for any spoken dialogue into an upside-down pyramid of inflated costs. The average video game last 40 hours, 20 times as long as your average animated movie. Add in choice, which means you need to record the dialogue for different situations, and it turns into easily double that. The question isn't "How much do Voice Actors make?" but rather "how much is it going to cost us to record dialgoue for a game that has enough dialogue to fill 40 animated movies?

Do they rent or already own a recording studio?
Given the amount of voice work Bioware does for ME, TOR, DA and whatever other projects Bioware has, I'd say if they don't own a recording studio at this point, then they are wasting money. However, I'm sure scheduling time between other more successful IPs like ME and TOR makes the studio not open 24/7 to them.

What's the actual profit on a game like DAO?  I know the sales numbers but not the profit?
Bioware and EA have never posted those numbers. However, it had roughly 4 million in sales, which at $50 a copy, would be $200 million in revenue, not including DLC and expansion sales. DA2 sold 2 million. However, since the large majority of those sales were in the first two weeks due to pre-orders and the large amount of returns that game retialers are reporting, this causes the product to be returned to the distributor, where EA/Bioware would eat the cost. However, ignoring that, revenue for DA2 would be around $100 million.

So, less revenue for a more expensive graphics engine, voice over for all actors and a revamped combat system which took the majority of development hours, in my guesstimate.

How much time would it take a writter to write out the dialogue?
That's a very subjective question. A) There are a team of writers, usually resulting in a group effort of writing, so no one person sits down and writes out the whole script. B) The process of writing is one of constant revisions and editting, as feedback from other departments let's the writing team know what can and cannot be done. The development, art, animation and software integration departments can't do their work without a story, but neither can the writing team know exactly what will go into the final product without feedback from these teams. So the writing is going in a constatnt loop of changes and alterations, from the "big-picture" aspect, where entire concepts and narratives are scrapped, to the minute details, where dialogue would need to be tweaked.

This can (and I'm sure DOES) result in a script that is constantly changing, and more than liklely requires them to bring back in Voice Actors to redo lines after changes have been made.

How much do the writters get paid?  Probably not much?
The writers are some of the most senior and leading influences on both the story and direction of the overall franchise. Jennifer Hepler, Cori May, David Gaider... these are all very big decision makers for the series, and (especially in the case of Gaider) are very public as being the voice of the series. I doubt they get paid in chicken feed.

But regardless, there would still be a neccessity for the exact same amount of writers, since the dialogue would need to be written anyway. But it does tie their hands. If you want to approach Situation A and give choices B,C and D as outcomes, but then it turns out that dialogue has already been recorded, you have to look at the pocketbook. Do you scrap this dialogue, which you've already paid for and would just wind up in the trash, or do you pay more money and pay to have three outcomes (read - three sepearate sets of dialogue) or do you leave it as is? 

Having a voiced actor having to re-read their lines (again, in three different tones of diplomatic, sarcasatic and aggressive) over the above-mentioned three choices (B,C and D), or settling for the mediocre resolution that you already had recorded... those are the options. Where you could have just gone into a Text Editor program and changed some dialogue lines with a slient character.


I just don't see how it's soooooo expensive or time consuming it can't be easily and cost effectively done.
It costs more, not just in actual budget dollars, but also in lost potential and creative license with the writing staff. For a feature that brings an extremely minimal amount of improvement to the series.

Modifié par Fast Jimmy, 24 janvier 2012 - 01:23 .


#452
Mr Fixit

Mr Fixit
  • Members
  • 550 messages
Nicely done, Jimmy.

One needs to look no further than DA2 when it comes to the consequences of having a voiced protagonist. The difference in the amount of dialogue compared to Origins is just staggering. In DA:O almost every random bystander had a line to say, not to mention that NPCs (non-recruitable) that you could truly engage in conversation with had vastly expanded and deeper dialogue options. Take Bodahn Feddic, for example - in Origins, you could talk to him for, dunno, 10 minutes perhaps, talking about this and that, about his past etc. There are virtually dozens of such unimportant characters in DA:O who still have a huge amount of dialogue, giving the world a lived-in feel, reinforcing the notion that it is a big place that exists unrelated to the protagonist.

DA2, on the other hand, and I'm sure voiced protagonist is partly to blame, felt like everything aside from Hawke is a prop, a virtual reality that comes to life only when Hawke strolls in.

#453
Jamie_edmo

Jamie_edmo
  • Members
  • 270 messages

Mr Fixit wrote...

Nicely done, Jimmy.

One needs to look no further than DA2 when it comes to the consequences of having a voiced protagonist. The difference in the amount of dialogue compared to Origins is just staggering. In DA:O almost every random bystander had a line to say, not to mention that NPCs (non-recruitable) that you could truly engage in conversation with had vastly expanded and deeper dialogue options. Take Bodahn Feddic, for example - in Origins, you could talk to him for, dunno, 10 minutes perhaps, talking about this and that, about his past etc. There are virtually dozens of such unimportant characters in DA:O who still have a huge amount of dialogue, giving the world a lived-in feel, reinforcing the notion that it is a big place that exists unrelated to the protagonist.

DA2, on the other hand, and I'm sure voiced protagonist is partly to blame, felt like everything aside from Hawke is a prop, a virtual reality that comes to life only when Hawke strolls in.


Im not sure a voice protagonist is purely to blame for this probably a mixture of things like short dev time etc, but anyway what youve said about the world in DA2 is spot on, a lot if not most characters feel like props because well, they dont do anything, but John Epler has said they are looking into fixing this, he might have said it in this thread or maybe actually

EDIT: It was in the other Skyrim thread from the registered section, heres the quote:

"And more intelligent and 'life like' ambient behaviour is definitely something we're looking into for future projects. Giving NPCs their own schedules and lives, within certain boundaries, is one of the best ways to make a world feel 'alive'"

Modifié par Jamie_edmo, 24 janvier 2012 - 06:47 .


#454
Mr Fixit

Mr Fixit
  • Members
  • 550 messages

Jamie_edmo wrote...

Im not sure a voice protagonist is purely to blame for this probably a mixture of things like short dev time etc, but anyway what youve said about the world in DA2 is spot on, a lot if not most characters feel like props because well, they dont do anything, but John Epler has said they are looking into fixing this, he might have said it in this thread or maybe actually


Sure, it's not *only* voiced protagonist, but every game probably has a VA budget. Without the voiced protagonist, devs have two options:

1) have more NPC dialogue. One has to bear in mind that DA2 has two voice actors for Hawke, and each of them has three (diplomatic, sarcastic, agressive) possible dialogue choices for most situations. It quicky adds -- I wouldn't be surprised if fully half of dialogue lines (and budget) had been spent on Hawke.

2) divert the resources to other fields, for example environments, encounter design, graphics etc. Of course, it's not one-for-one conversion, but still...

I want to add that I am not fundamentally opposed to a voiced protagonist (I loved Mass Effect), but it must be done with care and without stripping a game of other features.

Modifié par Mr Fixit, 24 janvier 2012 - 07:01 .


#455
suprhomre

suprhomre
  • Members
  • 1 671 messages
 I installed Dragon Age 2 on my computer the day it was released and the game is still in my disc. I still play it from time to time. I also bought Skyrim on the launch day installed it play it for ten mintes and quite the game and uninstalled it. Wraped it later as a X-mas present to the cousin I hate the most and enjoyed of the thought of how boring he will have it. 

Skyrim is the most overrated game i have ever played. Crappy combat and landscape so huge I could sum up half my gameplay running around doing nothing but running and killing minions.

DA2 super winner Skyrim is just a rim job.

#456
surfgirlusa_2006

surfgirlusa_2006
  • Members
  • 455 messages

suprhomre wrote...

Skyrim is the most overrated game i have ever played. Crappy combat and landscape so huge I could sum up half my gameplay running around doing nothing but running and killing minions.


That has always been the point of the Elder Scrolls games, as I understand it: the developers want the players to explore this huge open world and create their own story, so much so that they don't lock any content and thus your character can make little sense from a roleplaying standpoint.  The main quest is fairly inconsequential in the grand scheme of things; a strong story and well writte characters are not Bethseda's focus.  Plenty of forum posters over there lament this, and wish Elder Scrolls incorporated some more elements of Bioware games.  The grass is always greener on the other side, I suppose.

Back to the main topic: I don't mind unvoiced protagonists in games such as Skyrim, simply because the story and character interactions are not the primary focus.  Yes, your character "speaks" to people; however, it's less immersion breaking when you can also avoid talking to peole, the main quest is somewhat minimalistic, and deep relationships with other characters simply do not exist.  In DA:O, I found it much more jarring that my protagonist didn't speak; the game was very story and character driven, and it felt strange to watch th other characters engage with eachother more than they did with my character; I felt very much like a passive observer at times. 

That being said, I perfectly understand not everyone agrees, and that the system in DA2 is far from perfect.  I personally would prefer Bioware to keep the voiced protagonist but address some of the other issues (lack of dialogue choices, particularly in developing different ways to resolve problems; lack of a choice for race; the fact that the tones were very simplistic in nature and reduced immersion), but we shall see if this is possible.

#457
Neoideo

Neoideo
  • Members
  • 107 messages
I used to like DA2 scenarios, until i took an arrow to the knee.

Seriously, after playing Skyrim and being able to put it on max settings... Dragon Age 2 si a joke from an artistic and technical point of view, However i feel different for DA1 which somehow made an art style for itself.

What DA3 needs to keepup with the high standards that Skyrim put:

- huge interactive scenarios
- physics
- open world nagivation (no invisible walls, that is from the 1990's)
- an epic story, DA1 had epic story => nice, DA2 main story didnt have any impact on the world at all, it was just a stupid politician fight.
- It needs to be graphically good, at least avobe skyrim.

#458
Guest_Dalira Montanti_*

Guest_Dalira Montanti_*
  • Guests
I read that Bioware plan to give it an open world like feel dose that mean it be mostly a small box with lots of fake walls around 'Eye candy'?
so you can look into the distance but can go the distance that an open world offers sort of thing?