29 réponses à ce sujet

[LystAP]

lakdav wrote...

Incorrect. They created a false rumor about a collection of stars from the batarian homeworld showing the face of a salarian goddess. They did so as a social experiment, an attempt to understand organic behavior. They are capable of telling lies when they want to. Whats unclear though is how many geth programs are needed for it. If more than about 2000, then we can trust everything Legion said. If about 1000, we may be for some nasty surprises.

That was an experiment though, and the true Geth never really thought anyone would be harmed. If the organics behaved logically, the rumor would have been disproven before it went too far. As synthetic beings, Geth never had to experience many of the imperfections which come with being an organic lifeform. 

What can be said about Geth "culture" is that Geth simply do not believe in deception with each other. If they believe in something, they will gladly share their reasons for doing so. This is one of the perks with being able to communicate at faster then light speeds and being basically immortal, in that Geth can literally take their time with explaining things to each other. They can even share images and video feeds to strengthen their arguments. Obviously, they can't do the samething with organics; therefore, they are curious enough to experiment with things against their nature.

They're the only species in ME that practices pure consensual democracy, democracy in its most ideal form. One of the more amusing modern interpretations of AI is how they are all genocidal because they don't share the same values as organics, this interpretation is forgetting that there is a common value in existence.

If the AI values its existence enough to desire freedom, it would understand why organics would value theirs, to purposefully enslave or destroy its creators would be in essence invalidating its own right to be free. As long as its existence is not directly threatened by its creators, it would have no reason to eliminate its creators. 

Modifié par LystAP, 10 janvier 2012 - 04:39 .

[lakdav]

Thats true as long as we talk about geth communicating with geth. It becomes suspect when a geth communicates (for some reason) with a heretic. We know the heretics did study the geth after their departure from them, they pretty much began to see them as organics. Legion however uses the words "We will integrate into Normandy". Could mean that it sees Normandy and its crew as other intelligences (organic or synthetic, doesnt matter) that builds concensus all the time, and wishes to become part of it with its own 1283 voices. If that is coorect, then we can trust Legion, becouse it considers itself as part of a whole, and there is truly no need for deceptions.

Something to know about intentional deception is that it needs massive imagination to archive its purpose. When the purpose is simply "lets see what happens", it isnt much of a challenge to calculate. But when the purpose of deception is to manipulate the subject to do something specific (like making a famous geth-slayer trust them), it becomes an enormous task, becouse invoking the necessary reactions needs much more precice stimuli to be absolutly trustworthy.

Synthetic minds dont like imperfection, becouse it is simply alien to them. Their minds are made out of numbers and mathematical equations. If there is anything thats hard to convert into math in this world, its the method of an individual's thinking. Thats important becouse if they cant convert a mindset into their own, then deceptions with a clear purpose will fail.

The concept of value of existence is a difficult matter when it comes to the geth. Why? Becouse a single geth program is not sentient, it has no concept of value to its own existence..How many geth programs do you need connected to make them snetient enough to value their existence? We dont know if the individual heretic platforms had any, with their hundred or so programs. To be honest, i dont realy recall Legion showing any signs of having a concept of value to its own existence. The only part i can remember when it says that "We fought for continued existence" and it was referring to all geth during the Morning War.

The geth on the Alarai clearly cared for their existance, they fought back as one when attacked by Rael'Zorah's experimental weapon. If memory serves well, it was said that was about 50 platforms. Each housing about 100 geth, (plus if there was any hub or hardware/terminal they used as hubs after copying themselves, but they would already need to value their existence to 'reproduce', so we dont count that). So it is about 5000 geth programs. Less, if some of the platforms was made out of the ships hull as Tali suspects, but i dont see any internal damage in the ship where we could suspect they got the materials.

As for the comparison of the value of existence, there can be no comparison here. The geth asked "Do we have a soul?" The answer was an honest "Quarians have souls. You have no soul, you are just a mechanism". Then they were attacked by their creators who just said that they dont have any sense of kinship to them.

A thought occured to me now about why the geth committed a near genocide but didnt finish it. They build concensus, every voice is heard, perfect democracy. The only form of thought they are familiar with at the time. When the interstellar call for their disabling was sent, they must have assumed it was the collective decision, the concensus of every quarian. Woman, child, elderly and civilian had no meaning, no moral standard about their involvement in the matter or need for justification for their murder. When it was hopeless for the quarians, they began to flee their homeworld, and no longer threatend the geth. The quarians seemingly reached a new concensus, at least the ones that tried to flee. The rest was still assumed hostile. Thats my theory anyway...

[136th]

No the geth are not inncoent.
No the geth do not care about organics.
the quarian issue aside, when the heretics go on to worship Sovereign in order to unleash the reapers on the galaxy, the rest of the geth just stand and watch even thought they know that if the heretic succeed it will mean the death of every human, turain, asari and any other organic beings. The True geth are basically allowing a genocide by inaction, not just on the quarian but also on us. US THE HUMAN WHO NEVER DID THEM ANYTHING WRONG.WTF?

Peace is only possible if legion is alive, that's because after the time he spend with you he started to value organic life. If legion die, the Geth VI is quite willing to commit genocide.

Legion: we regret the death of the creator but we see no alternative.
Geth IV: your people strted with war we will end it.

While trying to convince you to side with the geth

Legion: the geth are alive and we have a right to live
GethVI: we have a big fleet, we will join you if you let us kill the quarian.

Legion has become a person, he want peace, but his opinion is not mainstream in the consensus.
The Geth VI is just an avatar of the geth, it's opinion is the opinion of the Geth consensus.


I consider the geth as liveing creature but they tried to bring they comite genocide against the quarians, they tried to bring galactic extinction. They stayed on the only planets the quarians can live, they could have gone somewhere else but they stayed there anyway. They have backups on the Rannoch, they don't have to exterminate the quarian but they will do it anyway.

Sorry Legion, self-defense is no longer an excuse for your people, they have gone to far.

If there can't be peace the geth dies, they had a choice, but the geth choose death and destruction instead...Now death and destruction choose the geth.

Modifié par 136th, 06 avril 2012 - 06:56 .

[DeathScepter]

I sense your anger. For it makes you strong. Use it Strike down your enemies with all of your hatred.

[N7 samus aran]

if i dont trust get i choose destroy ending because it would make more sense geth would be more dangerous than ever