69 réponses à ce sujet

[horacethegrey]

Just so you know, I like it when an rpg allows me to mix it up. I don't mind turn based affairs or point and click fests, but real time combat adds a whole new dimension that can make an rpg more enjoyable. Jade Empire was the first game I played like this, I thought it was good if a bit primitive.

Later games though (particularly of this gen) have been more successful. I think Mass Effect 2 is the perfect blend of third person shooter and rpg, and from what little of played of The Witcher 2, I thought it perfected the formula Jade Empire started of melding hack and slash combat with rpg elements. Currently I'm playing Skyrim, which has some decent (if a bit iffy) real time combat.

Modifié par horacethegrey, 03 janvier 2012 - 11:19 .

[Leinadi]

If you're just asking about a potential "this is how my dream RPG looks" then it would be tactical turnbased combat with the ability (though it should be difficult) to avoid it all if you give your character the right skills.

As for action elements, well... It depends on the game I suppose. But there are not many RPGs where I feel realtime action combat has been done particularly well. Most of the time it feels too much in the middle, not enough action to really get me going nor enough RPG stuff to really sink my teeth in. Then there is the fact that encounter design in most games suck so bad and... well, there isn't much left to enjoy about the combat sadly.

I thought Jade Empire had the potential for a really good combat system though but it kinda felt like they didn't make it all the way.

[Dominus]

I have no preference. I can play and enjoy the Mass Effect series, as well as something strictly turn-based like FF5 or Mother 3. As long as it plays well, I'm pretty open as a gamer.

[horacethegrey]

Leinadi wrote...
I thought Jade Empire had the potential for a really good combat system though but it kinda felt like they didn't make it all the way.

Did you ever play Rocksteady Studio's Batman Arkham City with the freeflow combat system? I mentioned in this thread on the Jade Empire board that if Bioware were to impelent a system similar to it for the sequel, then we'd have a great game indeed.

[Il Divo]

horacethegrey wrote...

Leinadi wrote...
I thought Jade Empire had the potential for a really good combat system though but it kinda felt like they didn't make it all the way.

Did you ever play Rocksteady Studio's Batman Arkham City with the freeflow combat system? I mentioned in this thread on the Jade Empire board that if Bioware were to impelent a system similar to it for the sequel, then we'd have a great game indeed.

 Do it, Bioware. Much potential here.

[THEPURPLEVAGRANT]

horacethegrey wrote...

Leinadi wrote...
I thought Jade Empire had the potential for a really good combat system though but it kinda felt like they didn't make it all the way.

Did you ever play Rocksteady Studio's Batman Arkham City with the freeflow combat system? I mentioned in this thread on the Jade Empire board that if Bioware were to impelent a system similar to it for the sequel, then we'd have a great game indeed.

you mean the combat system where you try to attack one enemy but he attacks the one 10 meters away from him because the game is really just one long overpriced QTE? no thanks, i think biowares combat system is fine the way it is.

[horacethegrey]

THEPURPLEVAGRANT wrote...
you mean the combat system where you try to attack one enemy but he attacks the one 10 meters away from him because the game is really just one long overpriced QTE? no thanks, i think biowares combat system is fine the way it is.

Funny. I don't remember Rocksteady's Batman titles being interactive cutscenes where you have to press a button otherwise it's game over, which is what a QTE is btw. 

[BatmanPWNS]

Loads and loads and..... (wait for it)..... loads.

[MrDizazta]

Il Divo wrote...

horacethegrey wrote...

Leinadi wrote...
I thought Jade Empire had the potential for a really good combat system though but it kinda felt like they didn't make it all the way.

Did you ever play Rocksteady Studio's Batman Arkham City with the freeflow combat system? I mentioned in this thread on the Jade Empire board that if Bioware were to impelent a system similar to it for the sequel, then we'd have a great game indeed.

 Do it, Bioware. Much potential here.

Fund it!

[In Exile]

I enjoy action combat, so long as it isn't the first person kind of thing that Bestheda games have. That kind of real-time combat is so unberable as to make the game effectively unplayable for me.

[bussinrounds]

None. Turn based FTW !! Character skill > Player skill. If i want action, I'll play a damn action game. (where the action is actually good, like Dark Souls or Blade of Darkness)

RPGs should of just stuck with what they did well, not try to be both (jack of all trades), and ultimately being weak and watered down in both aspects.

Vault Dweller said it best in his review of Oblivion - "An RPG for casual players. Brilliant ! Why brilliant ? Any gripes about the action elements, would be met with, well it's really a RPG, duh ! And any gripes about the RPG elements, would be met with, Well this isn't your grandpas RPG with dice rolls and skill checks, it's an action RPG, for the new generation, duh " !

[HoonDing]

I love action when it's good.

Modifié par virumor, 03 janvier 2012 - 07:25 .

[ErichHartmann]

Depends on my mood. I enjoy playing every type of RPG.

[bussinrounds]

virumor wrote...

I love action when it's good.

  I like it when it's good too, but unfortunatly in most of these hybrids it isn't.

[In Exile]

bussinrounds wrote...

None. Turn based FTW !! Character skill > Player skill. If i want action, I'll play a damn action game. (where the action is actually good, like Dark Souls or Blade of Darkness)

I really hate this statement. It's nonsense. What do you think being good at, for example, building a character or turn-based combat is? It's all player skill. It's just a different kind of skill.

Let's say I'm really, really ignorant. I want to play an RPG, but it's my first time. I want to make an epic warrior and tactical mastermind. But I b0rk the leveling, don't understand THAC0 and don't use my wizards and clerics right.

Well, my "epic warrior and mastermind" is going to turn out to be garbage, and fail at encounters even on easy. It's all player skill.

Modifié par In Exile, 03 janvier 2012 - 08:33 .

[Eternal Phoenix]

Balanced. A bit of combat. A bit of dialogue. A bit of looting.

[bmwcrazy]

Like Human Revolution. That game is just perfect.

[Addai]

There can be action in my RPG as long as there's an RPG in my RPG.

[Costin_Razvan]

Addai67 wrote...

There can be action in my RPG as long as there's an RPG in my RPG.

Amen to that.

[bussinrounds]

In Exile wrote...

bussinrounds wrote...

None. Turn based FTW !! Character skill > Player skill. If i want action, I'll play a damn action game. (where the action is actually good, like Dark Souls or Blade of Darkness)

I really hate this statement. It's nonsense. What do you think being good at, for example, building a character or turn-based combat is? It's all player skill. It's just a different kind of skill.

Let's say I'm really, really ignorant. I want to play an RPG, but it's my first time. I want to make an epic warrior and tactical mastermind. But I b0rk the leveling, don't understand THAC0 and don't use my wizards and clerics right.

Well, my "epic warrior and mastermind" is going to turn out to be garbage, and fail at encounters even on easy. It's all player skill.

   It's called planning, tactics and understanding the mechanics of the game.  Not fast twitch skills, the ability to manipulate a m&k/gamepad or fight with the interface.

[Costin_Razvan]

And you think there are no tactics, planning and understanding the game mechanics in a game where there is action? Lol.

[In Exile]

bussinrounds wrote...
 It's called planning, tactics and understanding the mechanics of the game.  Not fast twitch skills, the ability to manipulate a m&k/gamepad or fight with the interface.

1) That's still a player skill.

2) Try a real-time strategy game.

I prefer turn-based interfaces too, because they don't rush me, but pretending like they're not but about player skill is silly.

[bussinrounds]

In Exile wrote...

bussinrounds wrote...
 It's called planning, tactics and understanding the mechanics of the game.  Not fast twitch skills, the ability to manipulate a m&k/gamepad or fight with the interface.

1) That's still a player skill.

2) Try a real-time strategy game.

I prefer turn-based interfaces too, because they don't rush me, but pretending like they're not but about player skill is silly.

      1 -  It's a different type of skill, more a mental skill.  Like chess.  When i was talking about player skill,  I was referring more to the skills used for the common video games, such as (hand to eye coordination, twitch type gameplay...)    In a fully turn based game, there COULD be no difference in 80 year old grandma playing and someone else. That's what I meant when i said it's more about character skill >player skill for RPGs.  Of course there's mental skill involved. 
 
2) I have tried real time strategy games and It's not my thing.  I don't like being rushed either. Plus, i like the slower pace of turn based, having control over everything that's going on, and being able to get all feedback. (example- see who hit who, how, for how many pts of damage ?)   I get to watch and enjoy each characters action as they perform it.  There's too much going on at once in real time, i feel like I'm missing out on alot.  In BG, I'm scrolling back in the battle log constantly to see wtf just happened, instead of being able to see and enjoy everything while it happenes.

Take JA2, for example. say you want to split up your squads.  You want to keep precise control of each squad. But they're far away from each other. In turn based it is effortless to control each one. In
real time with pause it is incredibly frustrating as you are constantly
pausing and scrolling, pausing and scrolling. It doesn't feel anything
like real time at this point, and you would have to sacrifice control or rely on an the AI .  What if you got into 2 battles at once ?  You wouldn't even be able to watch them !



In RT games, your forced to limit your
tactics due to the interface.

[naughty99]

horacethegrey wrote...

Leinadi wrote...
I thought Jade Empire had the potential for a really good combat system though but it kinda felt like they didn't make it all the way.

Did you ever play Rocksteady Studio's Batman Arkham City with the freeflow combat system? I mentioned in this thread on the Jade Empire board that if Bioware were to impelent a system similar to it for the sequel, then we'd have a great game indeed.

I bought it during the Steam winter sale and tried it for about 20 minutes, just to make sure it was working properly. I'm sure I'm missing something, but the combat just felt like button mashing to me. There didn't seem to be any strategic aspect to it other than "press the button when the blue circle appears" and "keep pressing the button" 

Modifié par naughty99, 03 janvier 2012 - 11:08 .

[bussinrounds]

Costin_Razvan wrote...

And you think there are no tactics, planning and understanding the game mechanics in a game where there is action? Lol.

  Depends on the game.  Some more than others.   Dark Souls ?  I would say so.   God of War ?  No.  You can get away with just button mashing.