394 réponses à ce sujet

[spirosz]

Hybrid. Always been a Hybrid.

[1136342t54_]

In Exile wrote...
I like predetermined characters in general, because I feel that it makes for a better narrative. I think there should be significant elements of the player's background that are fixed anchors for the writers to latch on to, but each of which are sufficently variable to allow for the players to RP that character in different ways.

I think Shepard's background as written gets at this just fine. The problem is the writing. Not even the dialogue wheel per se - just the writing itself.

A great ME1 example (ME2, IMO, was far better at this) was with the Council after Eden Prime where no matter what you pick Shepard is frothing at the mouth, full on crazy about Saren being a traitor and the Council being wrong. There's just no room to disagree, and you'r enot given a reason why you should believe that.

That's a case of the writers overruling the player, and it has nothing to do with the dialogue wheel at all. It happens in DA:O all the time too, when it comes to talking about the Grey Wardens and getting stuck in I<3Wardens land.

In ME1 they did have those situations occur often (but not too much) it was enough that it was noticeable and ME2 actually fixed that. Although I would have liked dlc for the different backgrounds but obviously the survivor one is more complicated and the likelihood of those being made are small.

DAO did it but I could make a Warden that didn't every like the Wardens but just resigned to that fate. You were basically a Warden and you can easily choose what you believe a Warden means to you. Wynne's conversation was another way to roleplay it and to choose what type of Warden you wanted to be.

[1136342t54_]

Shifty Assassin wrote...

I would say Mass Effect 1 was an rpg while ME2 is an action-rpg leaning a bit more on action.

Mass Effect 1 was always an Action RPG. The difference between ME2 and ME1 was that ME2 did the action part better.

[AtreiyaN7]

It's always been an aRPG.

[Homey C-Dawg]

I don't know why people have such a need to polarize it into one or the other catagory. I'm perfectly fine with the ME games being Action/RPG.

[chunkyman]

Chris Priestly wrote...

I think it depends on what you call an RPG, because you can argue about what the title represents. Not the game's title, but the title "RPG".

If we took a more broad title, like "Is Mass Effect 3 a video game" people would all say yes. Same if you said "Is Gone with the Wind a movie?" People would all say yes. Now, if you said "Is Gone with the Wind a Historical movie?" NOW you would get some discussion. Sure, GWtW takes place in the American Civil War, there is the burning of Atlanta, slavery, many historical elements, etc. However, it is not 100% historically accurate (not that it claims to be). So I think most people would say "Yes, Gone with the Wind is a Historical movie." Still, there would be those that would argue the point. They would say that the Scarlett character was not an accurate representation of women of the time, that there were inaccuracies and such. This however, depends on what these "hardcore" people call a Historical movie. Maybe they are basing their opinion on a documentary film instead of a fictional story, whatever it may be. To them, this hardcore group, they may not call it a Historical movie no matter how many other people say that it is.

Now, take the same principal to Mass Effect. Again, all would agree it is a video game. I think (or hope) most would say it is a pretty good series. Is it an RPG? That is where you'll get the discussion and disagreement. I can say that BioWare feels Mass Effect is an action RPG series. There are RPG elements in each game that RPG fans come to expect. The discussion is usually "Is there enough RPG in the games to be called an RPG". For me, as an RPG gamer, I think there are enough customization and dialog choices in teh games for me to call ithem RPGs. I can also see where some people who expect otehr features to be present to call a game an RPG would not call Mass Effect RPG. For me, the customization, the dialog, the choice, etc coupled with all the otehr elements and features in teh game, is enough for me to enjoy Mass Effect as a series as an action packed RPG.

In the end, it comes down to what YOU think of as an RPG. There isn't much point in arguing this, because it is subjective to the person experiencing it.

That's true, RPG is a subjective term. I think Mass Effect isn't what I would call an RPG, but after reading people's opinions of it I would like to try it nonetheless. 

Now I have to figure out this "bootcamp" thingy. I wish compooters didn't confuse me so bad... 

Alternatively, I could simply skip the first Mass Effect. Would I still be able to enjoy/understand the plot of ME2 without playing ME1?

Modifié par chunkyman, 04 janvier 2012 - 07:30 .

[AtreiyaN7]

You could skip ME1, but it's better to play both for the full experience if you ask me.

[Kakita Tatsumaru]

Gatt9 wrote...
ME3 is not an RPG,  not fully,  due to the true shooter aspects.  Shepherd cannot miss unless you miss.

Actually a full HUD playthrough (has the one I play since ME1) makes just that: I make Shepard shoot and he don't miss the target even if I just suck at shooters.

[Chaos Gate]

In my opinion:

ME1: Action/RPG hybrid
ME2: Shooter with some light RPG elements

Furthermore:

chunkyman wrote...

On a scale of 1-10, how good is the story and setting?

ME1 story: 10/10
ME1 setting: 10/10

ME2 story: 1/10
ME2 setting: 5/10

Modifié par Chaos Gate, 04 janvier 2012 - 10:13 .

[Abraham_uk]

chunkyman wrote...

Chris Priestly wrote...

I think it depends on what you call an RPG, because you can argue about what the title represents. Not the game's title, but the title "RPG".

If we took a more broad title, like "Is Mass Effect 3 a video game" people would all say yes. Same if you said "Is Gone with the Wind a movie?" People would all say yes. Now, if you said "Is Gone with the Wind a Historical movie?" NOW you would get some discussion. Sure, GWtW takes place in the American Civil War, there is the burning of Atlanta, slavery, many historical elements, etc. However, it is not 100% historically accurate (not that it claims to be). So I think most people would say "Yes, Gone with the Wind is a Historical movie." Still, there would be those that would argue the point. They would say that the Scarlett character was not an accurate representation of women of the time, that there were inaccuracies and such. This however, depends on what these "hardcore" people call a Historical movie. Maybe they are basing their opinion on a documentary film instead of a fictional story, whatever it may be. To them, this hardcore group, they may not call it a Historical movie no matter how many other people say that it is.

Now, take the same principal to Mass Effect. Again, all would agree it is a video game. I think (or hope) most would say it is a pretty good series. Is it an RPG? That is where you'll get the discussion and disagreement. I can say that BioWare feels Mass Effect is an action RPG series. There are RPG elements in each game that RPG fans come to expect. The discussion is usually "Is there enough RPG in the games to be called an RPG". For me, as an RPG gamer, I think there are enough customization and dialog choices in teh games for me to call ithem RPGs. I can also see where some people who expect otehr features to be present to call a game an RPG would not call Mass Effect RPG. For me, the customization, the dialog, the choice, etc coupled with all the otehr elements and features in teh game, is enough for me to enjoy Mass Effect as a series as an action packed RPG.

In the end, it comes down to what YOU think of as an RPG. There isn't much point in arguing this, because it is subjective to the person experiencing it.

That's true, RPG is a subjective term. I think Mass Effect isn't what I would call an RPG, but after reading people's opinions of it I would like to try it nonetheless. 

Now I have to figure out this "bootcamp" thingy. I wish compooters didn't confuse me so bad... 

Alternatively, I could simply skip the first Mass Effect. Would I still be able to enjoy/understand the plot of ME2 without playing ME1?

I agree with Chris. I think of Mass Effect as an action/RPG franchise. But then again I think of Final Fantasy games as RPG's too.

[Sylvius the Mad]

I see only one meaningful difference between ME and ME2 in terms of their RPG-ness. ME includes a sort of tack-on free travel system with the uncharted worlds, and ME2 does not. As such, ME allows more player control over Shepard's day-to-day motives by akllowing him a greater number of optional objectives.

ME2 does not.

That's the only difference I see. The thing that stops both of them from allowing meaningful roleplaying is the dialogue system. It's the same thing that stops DA2 from allowing meaningful roleplaying.

To get back to roleplaying, BioWare needs either to scrap the voice+paraphrase system or to make it optional.

[JG The Gamer]

Yes.

[alex90c]

In Exile wrote...

That's a case of the writers overruling the player, and it has nothing to do with the dialogue wheel at all. It happens in DA:O all the time too, when it comes to talking about the Grey Wardens and getting stuck in I<3Wardens land.

I didn't feel that at all. I felt there were quite a few times where I could say "man, being a grey warden blows", and it was only really Awakening where your character had to like the wardens (well duh, you're their freaking commander).

[In Exile]

1136342t54 wrote...
In ME1 they did have those situations occur often (but not too much) it was enough that it was noticeable and ME2 actually fixed that. Although I would have liked dlc for the different backgrounds but obviously the survivor one is more complicated and the likelihood of those being made are small.

Sole Survivor is just messed up in ME2. You can't call out Cerberus for Akuze at all. Makes the background unplayable for me.

DAO did it but I could make a Warden that didn't every like the Wardens but just resigned to that fate. You were basically a Warden and you can easily choose what you believe a Warden means to you. Wynne's conversation was another way to roleplay it and to choose what type of Warden you wanted to be.

No, the problem is so much them making you a Warden as not allowing you to hate them. Like in Wynne's conversation. You can either say people should respect you for being a Warden, you love it, or it's none of her business, but you can't say something like "they're all kidnapping liars and should be evicted from Ferelden again." That's what I was getting at.

[Il Divo]

In Exile wrote...

No, the problem is so much them making you a Warden as not allowing you to hate them. Like in Wynne's conversation. You can either say people should respect you for being a Warden, you love it, or it's none of her business, but you can't say something like "they're all kidnapping liars and should be evicted from Ferelden again." That's what I was getting at.

Basically, you can't play an Anders-style Warden: bitter remorseful.

Modifié par Il Divo, 04 janvier 2012 - 04:45 .

[MerinTB]

Chris Priestly wrote...

I think it depends on what you call an RPG, because you can argue about what the title represents. Not the game's title, but the title "RPG".

If we took a more broad title, like "Is Mass Effect 3 a video game" people would all say yes. Same if you said "Is Gone with the Wind a movie?" People would all say yes. Now, if you said "Is Gone with the Wind a Historical movie?" NOW you would get some discussion. Sure, GWtW takes place in the American Civil War, there is the burning of Atlanta, slavery, many historical elements, etc. However, it is not 100% historically accurate (not that it claims to be). So I think most people would say "Yes, Gone with the Wind is a Historical movie." Still, there would be those that would argue the point. They would say that the Scarlett character was not an accurate representation of women of the time, that there were inaccuracies and such. This however, depends on what these "hardcore" people call a Historical movie. Maybe they are basing their opinion on a documentary film instead of a fictional story, whatever it may be. To them, this hardcore group, they may not call it a Historical movie no matter how many other people say that it is.

Now, take the same principal to Mass Effect. Again, all would agree it is a video game. I think (or hope) most would say it is a pretty good series. Is it an RPG? That is where you'll get the discussion and disagreement. I can say that BioWare feels Mass Effect is an action RPG series. There are RPG elements in each game that RPG fans come to expect. The discussion is usually "Is there enough RPG in the games to be called an RPG". For me, as an RPG gamer, I think there are enough customization and dialog choices in teh games for me to call ithem RPGs. I can also see where some people who expect otehr features to be present to call a game an RPG would not call Mass Effect RPG. For me, the customization, the dialog, the choice, etc coupled with all the otehr elements and features in teh game, is enough for me to enjoy Mass Effect as a series as an action packed RPG.

In the end, it comes down to what YOU think of as an RPG. There isn't much point in arguing this, because it is subjective to the person experiencing it.

I think, overall, that should pretty much end the discussion as presented.  Especially that last paragraph there.

Now, if the thread had been "Do YOU think this is an RPG" that's a different kettle of fish.

(for the record, I think of ME as an Adventure/Shooter hybrid with some RPG elements tossed on... but its not what I'd really consider an "RPG" as my criteria for that needs greater character control than the ME series gives you.)

[jackyboy666]

When you have rent to pay, a job to keep and mouths to feed, topics like this are devoid of all importance, life and meaning.

[Sylvius the Mad]

I do think DAO supported indifference quite well (far better than DA2 did, which required active buy-in to just about everything), but In Exile is correct that open hostility toward the establishment simply didn't work.

[crimzontearz]

Chris Priestly wrote...
I think it depends on what you call an RPG, because you can argue about what the title represents. Not the game's title, but the title "RPG".

If we took a more broad title, like "Is Mass Effect 3 a video game" people would all say yes. Same if you said "Is Gone with the Wind a movie?" People would all say yes. Now, if you said "Is Gone with the Wind a Historical movie?" NOW you would get some discussion. Sure, GWtW takes place in the American Civil War, there is the burning of Atlanta, slavery, many historical elements, etc. However, it is not 100% historically accurate (not that it claims to be). So I think most people would say "Yes, Gone with the Wind is a Historical movie." Still, there would be those that would argue the point. They would say that the Scarlett character was not an accurate representation of women of the time, that there were inaccuracies and such. This however, depends on what these "hardcore" people call a Historical movie. Maybe they are basing their opinion on a documentary film instead of a fictional story, whatever it may be. To them, this hardcore group, they may not call it a Historical movie no matter how many other people say that it is.

Now, take the same principal to Mass Effect. Again, all would agree it is a video game. I think (or hope) most would say it is a pretty good series. Is it an RPG? That is where you'll get the discussion and disagreement. I can say that BioWare feels Mass Effect is an action RPG series. There are RPG elements in each game that RPG fans come to expect. The discussion is usually "Is there enough RPG in the games to be called an RPG". For me, as an RPG gamer, I think there are enough customization and dialog choices in teh games for me to call ithem RPGs. I can also see where some people who expect otehr features to be present to call a game an RPG would not call Mass Effect RPG. For me, the customization, the dialog, the choice, etc coupled with all the otehr elements and features in teh game, is enough for me to enjoy Mass Effect as a series as an action packed RPG.

In the end, it comes down to what YOU think of as an RPG. There isn't much point in arguing this, because it is subjective to the person experiencing it.

honestly Chris...I'd leave the customization bit out if I were you at least where ME2 is concerned

[crimzontearz]

jreezy wrote...

crimzontearz wrote...
honestly Chris...I'd leave the customization bit out if I were you at least where ME2 is concerned

It's actually pretty easy to leave that customization bit in.

not for me

not when there are straight shooters with more non linear customization than ME2

[AlanC9]

In Exile wrote...
Sole Survivor is just messed up in ME2. You can't call out Cerberus for Akuze at all. Makes the background unplayable for me.

You can play that background fine -- just don't do the assignment where Shepard meets Toombs.

Not much help if you're not metagaming, of course.

[chothug]

Mass Effect 1 would be called an RPG in my opinion. Mass Effect 2 would be called TPS with less RPG elements than the first. Mass Effect 3? Havent heard much of it, but im guessing it will be more of a TPS than anything else...