394 réponses à ce sujet

[AlexXIV]

AgitatedLemon wrote...
And what are the big choices you make in Diablo? Your class, equipment and which enemy you kill first.
You don't need to have massive, world changing decisions to have an RPG.

Look at WoW.

Like I said before, it's an RPG, whether it's PnP, stat-based (Which Diablo is), or action oriented (Like ME is)

I can't talk about Wow, I never played it. Though I played EQ2, DAoC, AoC. They are MMORPGs but the RPG only comes from joining RPG communities and roleplaying with other players. The game itself offers quests, but no RPG.

Modifié par AlexXIV, 03 janvier 2012 - 07:22 .

[AlanC9]

AlexXIV wrote...

For me the core of RPG is to build and define your own character/protagonist. I mean you can make choices in many games. Choose your side, your team, etc. I want to shape the world through my protagonist. And first of all I want to shape my protagonist.

OK, as long as you're not saying that games which don't have this core are therefore not RPGs. Otherwise we're have to remove a ton of games from the category

[1136342t54_]

AlexXIV wrote...

Obsidian seems to mostly continue other franchises. Which makes them pretty diverse. They could continue a Bioware franchise as well as a Bethesda franchise. But they don't really have an own niche.

Pretty much this. I like Bioware and Bethesda for having that little niche and being able to do it better than most people. 

[AlexXIV]

AlanC9 wrote...

AlexXIV wrote...

For me the core of RPG is to build and define your own character/protagonist. I mean you can make choices in many games. Choose your side, your team, etc. I want to shape the world through my protagonist. And first of all I want to shape my protagonist.

OK, as long as you're not saying that games which don't have this core are therefore not RPGs. Otherwise we're have to remove a ton of games from the category

Yeah everyone has their point of view on RPGs. I can't say that mine is more valid than anyone else's. But I'll argue mine of course.

[AgitatedLemon]

AlexXIV wrote...

AgitatedLemon wrote...
And what are the big choices you make in Diablo? Your class, equipment and which enemy you kill first.
You don't need to have massive, world changing decisions to have an RPG.

Look at WoW.

Like I said before, it's an RPG, whether it's PnP, stat-based (Which Diablo is), or action oriented (Like ME is)

I can't talk about Wow, I never played it. Though I played EQ2, DAoC, AoC. They are MMORPGs but the RPG only comes from joining RPG communities and roleplaying with other players. The game itself offers quests, but no RPG.

Apart from having the various means to combat, WoW is almost a Bethesda clone.

Hell, you could stretch that and say the same for TOR.

Your character has no backstory - fresh for in-world RP'ing purposes.

You interact with other people in the world - be it NPC's or players.

(If you care about these things) You crunch numbers and min/max your gear for your role - just like in Diablo/DotA, or other similar games.

The only other major difference is the group content. I don't know of any Bethesda Multiplayer games.

You saying that ME, MMO's, Diablo, and the like aren't RPG's really stands against your intelligence. They're all different kinds of RPG, but they are RPG, what can you not understand?

[AgitatedLemon]

1136342t54 wrote...

AlexXIV wrote...

Obsidian seems to mostly continue other franchises. Which makes them pretty diverse. They could continue a Bioware franchise as well as a Bethesda franchise. But they don't really have an own niche.

Pretty much this. I like Bioware and Bethesda for having that little niche and being able to do it better than most people. 

Now that I think about it, have BioWare or Bethesda made anything OTHER THAN RPG's?

[ediskrad327]

technically it's been an action-RPG game since ME1, only that the action wasn't very well executed in the first one but the story was well done

[Sylvius the Mad]

Candidate 88766 wrote...

You know roughly what he is going to say, or at the very least the tone of it.

When you're choosing a dialogue option, the guy who wronte the paraphrase can't know which specific details are important to you in that moment.  Each PC is different.  If Shepard wants to hide a specific piece of information from Udina, or wants to avoid being the guy who makes any given suggestion, the player cannot make that happen using ME's dialogue system.

However, not knowing what he will say doesn't mean you don't have a choice

Absolutely it does.  If you don't know what it is you are choosing, you cannot be reasonably described as having chosen it.

AlanC9 wrote...

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

The player does not know  exactly what Shepard will say or how he will say it until after he speaks.  This is undeniably true.

Clarification inserted.

A player who understands the way ME handles dialogue will know which of the available options is the best for his character.

That information isn't available to the player without having the played the game extensively first.

That's all the knowledge I require, since in the end I only have whatever speech options the devs wrote for me, whether in KotOR or ME.

Even if this is true, you don't know what those options are in ME

Modifié par Sylvius the Mad, 03 janvier 2012 - 07:28 .

[Fiery Phoenix]

Laughing my ass off at this thread...

[N7Raider]

@Sylvius the Mad
are you serious dude? 

Modifié par N7Raider, 03 janvier 2012 - 07:34 .

[AgitatedLemon]

jreezy wrote...

AgitatedLemon wrote...

1136342t54 wrote...

AlexXIV wrote...

Obsidian seems to mostly continue other franchises. Which makes them pretty diverse. They could continue a Bioware franchise as well as a Bethesda franchise. But they don't really have an own niche.

Pretty much this. I like Bioware and Bethesda for having that little niche and being able to do it better than most people. 

Now that I think about it, have BioWare or Bethesda made anything OTHER THAN RPG's?

Edit: That's a non-RPG BioWare game.

The tagline for that game is unrelentingly cheesy.

[AlexXIV]

AgitatedLemon wrote...

AlexXIV wrote...

AgitatedLemon wrote...
And what are the big choices you make in Diablo? Your class, equipment and which enemy you kill first.
You don't need to have massive, world changing decisions to have an RPG.

Look at WoW.

Like I said before, it's an RPG, whether it's PnP, stat-based (Which Diablo is), or action oriented (Like ME is)

I can't talk about Wow, I never played it. Though I played EQ2, DAoC, AoC. They are MMORPGs but the RPG only comes from joining RPG communities and roleplaying with other players. The game itself offers quests, but no RPG.

Apart from having the various means to combat, WoW is almost a Bethesda clone.

Hell, you could stretch that and say the same for TOR.

Your character has no backstory - fresh for in-world RP'ing purposes.

You interact with other people in the world - be it NPC's or players.

(If you care about these things) You crunch numbers and min/max your gear for your role - just like in Diablo/DotA, or other similar games.

The only other major difference is the group content. I don't know of any Bethesda Multiplayer games.

You saying that ME, MMO's, Diablo, and the like aren't RPG's really stands against your intelligence. They're all different kinds of RPG, but they are RPG, what can you not understand?

To have my own view on what an RPG is stands against my intelligence? Also I never said MMORPGs are not RPGs. But if you play only single player content (all alone) you don't have more RPG than ... say ... Madden's. Which means in MMORPGs the RPG comes from players, not the content as such. The only exception is maybe places to RP in and other RPG stuff like clothes, emotes, etc.

Modifié par AlexXIV, 03 janvier 2012 - 07:34 .

[Jaron Oberyn]

AgitatedLemon wrote...

http://www.1up.com/f...ttle-rpg-titans

Good article. I agree that bio and Beth should collaborate on a game. It would be game of the century no doubt. 


-Polite

[nitefyre410]

N7Raider wrote...

@Sylvius the Mad
are you serious dude? I mean you've gotta be trolling right?

 

having been to the  DA 2 forums and seeing his post before ... he is  serious and no he is not trolling.

[AgitatedLemon]

AlexXIV wrote...

AgitatedLemon wrote...

AlexXIV wrote...

AgitatedLemon wrote...
And what are the big choices you make in Diablo? Your class, equipment and which enemy you kill first.
You don't need to have massive, world changing decisions to have an RPG.

Look at WoW.

Like I said before, it's an RPG, whether it's PnP, stat-based (Which Diablo is), or action oriented (Like ME is)

I can't talk about Wow, I never played it. Though I played EQ2, DAoC, AoC. They are MMORPGs but the RPG only comes from joining RPG communities and roleplaying with other players. The game itself offers quests, but no RPG.

Apart from having the various means to combat, WoW is almost a Bethesda clone.

Hell, you could stretch that and say the same for TOR.

Your character has no backstory - fresh for in-world RP'ing purposes.

You interact with other people in the world - be it NPC's or players.

(If you care about these things) You crunch numbers and min/max your gear for your role - just like in Diablo/DotA, or other similar games.

The only other major difference is the group content. I don't know of any Bethesda Multiplayer games.

You saying that ME, MMO's, Diablo, and the like aren't RPG's really stands against your intelligence. They're all different kinds of RPG, but they are RPG, what can you not understand?

To have my own view on what an RPG is stands against my intelligence? Also I never said MMORPGs are not RPGs. But if you play only single player content (all alone) you don't have more RPG than ... say ... Madden's. Which means in MMORPGs the RPG comes from players, not the content as such. The only exception is maybe places to RP in and other RPG stuff like clothes, emotes, etc.

It sounds like you're trying to cement that just because a game like WoW has sword slashing, or ME has shooting, that it isn't an RPG.

[AlexXIV]

Fiery Phoenix wrote...

Laughing my ass off at this thread...

You could at least turn around when you're talking to us.

[Candidate 88766]

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

Candidate 88766 wrote...

You know roughly what he is going to say, or at the very least the tone of it.

When you're choosing a dialogue option, the guy who wronte the paraphrase can't know which specific details are important to you in that moment.  Each PC is different.  If Shepard wants to hide a specific piece of information from Udina, or wants to avoid being the guy who makes any given suggestion, the player cannot make that happen using ME's dialogue system.

But the writers know Shepard's motivations, so of course they know whether the information is relevant enough. As we've already established, Shepard is a relatively defined character - a necessity of a good story - so the writers always know Shepard's motives, whether they be paragon, renegade or somewhere roughly in between. The player's motives may not match up with this, but thats a different matter.

And regardless of whether you know excatly what the choice is, you still have a choice. You are fundamentally wrong in saying that you can't choose the dialogue. You don't know exactly what Shepard will say, but you know roughly and at the end of the day you still get a choice of which dialogue option to select.

[log1x_dr4g0n]

I bet I could make myself a pizza, come back, and this thread will still be going...

Modifié par log1x_dr4g0n, 03 janvier 2012 - 07:38 .

[happy_daiz]

log1x_dr4g0n wrote...

I bet i could make myself a pizza, come back, and this thread will still be going...

I'm sure you're right.

Modifié par happy_daiz, 03 janvier 2012 - 07:39 .

[Candidate 88766]

PoliteAssasin wrote...

AgitatedLemon wrote...

http://www.1up.com/f...ttle-rpg-titans

Good article. I agree that bio and Beth should collaborate on a game. It would be game of the century no doubt. 


-Polite

Bioware's storytelling skills and characters combained with Bethesda's open worlds? If that were possible it would be adream come true, but I don't think a truly open world and a focused story would work well together.

A man can dream though...

[Abraham_uk]

AgitatedLemon wrote...

AlexXIV wrote...

AgitatedLemon wrote...
And what are the big choices you make in Diablo? Your class, equipment and which enemy you kill first.
You don't need to have massive, world changing decisions to have an RPG.

Look at WoW.

Like I said before, it's an RPG, whether it's PnP, stat-based (Which Diablo is), or action oriented (Like ME is)

I can't talk about Wow, I never played it. Though I played EQ2, DAoC, AoC. They are MMORPGs but the RPG only comes from joining RPG communities and roleplaying with other players. The game itself offers quests, but no RPG.

Apart from having the various means to combat, WoW is almost a Bethesda clone.

Hell, you could stretch that and say the same for TOR.

Your character has no backstory - fresh for in-world RP'ing purposes.

You interact with other people in the world - be it NPC's or players.

(If you care about these things) You crunch numbers and min/max your gear for your role - just like in Diablo/DotA, or other similar games.

The only other major difference is the group content. I don't know of any Bethesda Multiplayer games.

You saying that ME, MMO's, Diablo, and the like aren't RPG's really stands against your intelligence. They're all different kinds of RPG, but they are RPG, what can you not understand?

World of Warcraft is a Bethesda clone? I've played Bethesda games such as Fallout 3 and Elderscrolls Oblivion but I've never played any World of Warcraft games. How is World of Warcraft a Bethesda clone?

Why is there still a debate whether or not Mass Effect is an RPG?

Here is an amusing thread. Enjoy


http://social.biowar...3/index/8775508

[In Exile]

1136342t54 wrote...

Not really a fault though. Bioware likes their own story structure (they even blatantly told us this) Obsidian just does different stories and even build on previous ones very well. 

Obsidian doesn't have a structure. They're really good about that. To me, though, a game suffers very strongly as an RPG when the designers take control of a character away from you. I think giving the character secret knowledge the player doesn't have and then making the player make decisions based on that is not good.

ME is just not a game like that. We know about Elysium etc. upfront and then the entire game takes place in the present. Even the Prothean vision was always nonsense for Shepard and us.