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#1
Naruxius

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Greetings everyone!


I recently got NWN2 Platinum edition and I am very eager to start creating small adventures which I can play together with my friends, and maybe do some bigger project aswell as a hobby thing since I've got alot of freetime.

However, everytime I try to create an exterior area, it always feels so man made, I just want it to look natural... Also I cant seem to get the hang of handling plants/terrains/horizons/texturing and such.

I really would like to get into creating my own adventures. How do you guys/gals make it look realistic or believeable? :crying: Maybe these things are some fundamental details of level designing, but Ive never done anything in a map editor except NWN1, which was well... Pretty limited when it comes to environments/graphics.

I am usually reachable on steam, if anyone wants to help me out or just want to be a pal and learn the NWN2 toolset together with. Add "Nuriox", without quotes.


Thanks

#2
NWN DM

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It takes a huge amount of time - experience just working with the toolset is what you need. There really aren't any corners you can cut if you want to do all this yourself.

There are tutorials (I believe one comes with the game in the install folder) available on NWVault.

Also, download some good modules and prefab areas, open them in the toolset and try to figure out what the author did to achieve an effect you like. That's how I've done my learning.

#3
Dann-J

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Nothing makes a natural area look artificial more than flat areas of ground (unless you're creating a saltpan). Vary the height of the terrain, then smooth it out a bit where necessary.

Don't be afraid to scatter very small placeables about at random (rocks, twigs, moss, bones etc). Try to avoid putting things in straight lines. Make them into environmental objects, and make sure they are low enough so that if the player walks through them, it looks like they're walking *over* them (often by scaling them down in the Z axis to flatten them a bit). For larger boulders or logs, clip the walkmesh so that players have to walk around them.

For snow or sand, I like to specify a direction for the prevailing winds and then raise the terrain on that side of any static object (after height-locking the placeable), so it looks like the sand/snow has accumulated up against things. Do that for every decent sized placeable and you'd be amazed at how effective it can be.

Modifié par DannJ, 03 janvier 2012 - 09:40 .


#4
kevL

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Terrain Tutorial

This is a remarkable tutorial on creating natural areas (sped up so it doesn't take forever to watch) - uTube playlist.

He starts with topology, moves through textures, and finally goes into using colors. Notice he has a tablet w/ plugin ... even says it would be madness using a mouse; but the ideas are there regardless.


ps. you can find lots of other tutes and demos from the page at uTube

#5
Naruxius

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Thanks alot for the advice everyone!

I have followed NWN DM's advice to download a couple of modules and playing through them meanwhile trying to find out what I like about the areas I happen to discover. Currently looking through Wulverheim which I find to be a impressive world.

If you know any other world available on nwvault which you personally find impressive, please do tell.

DannJ, I tried doing that but it often come up as unnatural, to me at least. I guess I am just bad at placing them. I tried putting the bear skeleton in front of a cave and slighly altered the height so that it looked like the skeleton had been there for a long time and started to sink into the earth.

Couldnt run the area however, since it crashed during loading screen. Maybe because the skeleton was slightly below earth level?

I guess it looked alright in the toolset, but then the trees and bushes which I scatter all over seem so inconsistent.

Also, thanks for the link kevL. I will look through his tutorials and see if I can find some other tutorials on youtube. Seems the online community is not as big as the one of NWN1.

If you got more tips, links or modules which I should take a look at please feel free to post!


Again, thank alot for the replies.
Naruxius

Modifié par Naruxius, 04 janvier 2012 - 04:32 .


#6
Fyrekrest

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I think the biggest thing you can do to break up the artificial looks is: variety. Whether it is variety in height, the angles at which placeables are set so that they are not all perfectly aligned, changing the size of trees and placeables, layering different textures over one another, etc. Placing the same object over and over really looks fake, but little alterations as you go really will give some visual interest to it.

And texturing is an art! Each person definitely has their own style and method, so the best way to figure it out is to simply try different combinations.

#7
_Knightmare_

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Go and get a bunch of prefab areas off the Vault. Some you can use just as they are, others you will want to tweak to suit your purpose. Tweaking these areas can give you a good head start on practicing by trying to edit/copy what others have already done. I suggest you keep a copy of the original prefab area so you can start back over if you really mess things up.

#8
Lugaid of the Red Stripes

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I think it's also important to keep in mind that you're not trying to realistically reproduce a landscape, but rather a smaller, more exaggerated version of the landscape, kinda like how a cartoon character is a small, exaggerated version of a person. So you have more terrain variety crammed closer together, with steeper cliffs, more undulant plains, bluer oceans, and windier roads. (If you know anything about Chinese or Japanese traditional gardens, this is exactly what they do, recreate a whole continent of terrain in miniature).

To sum up and expand on the excellent tips above:
1) Varied elevation is key. Only artificial surfaces (and salt pans) are completely flat. I like to use the flatten tool to paint down different layers of terrain at different heights, just like a topographic map, and then use the smooth tool to erode everything down. Any flat spot left over, go over it a bit with either the raise/lower brush at 20%, and then smooth it again.

2) Details count. Look at a real landscape, and find at least one little detail you can copy, like the snow drifts mentioned above. You want to give the player something they can immediately recognize as belonging in a real landscape.

3) Interrupt patterns. Human eyes are great at finding patterns, which we immediately impute to some sort of artificial design. In the toolset, the biggest problem is the textures, which repeat in neat tiles. You have to interrupt the repetition of the textures either by mixing textures, interspersing different textures, using the color tool, or adding in other objects. You can also use misdirection; a deer trail through the grass will give the eye something to look at, a pattern to recognize, besides the tessellating texture of the grass. Likewise, any objects or trees you put into the area need to be randomized. You can't rotate trees, and you should only use a handful of different seeds, but you can resize the trees, and subtly alter their proportions.

4)Fractal detail. Fractals are those funky computer images that look the same zoomed in and zoomed out. Basically, detail or patterns get replicated both on the small scale and on the large scale. Think of a tree, where the big branches fork in exactly the same way as the little twigs. Fractal patters are actually what people recognize as 'natural' or organic. In the toolset, this boils down to making big details and little details, and having the big and little details mimic eachother. So you have big cliffs and small cliffs, big bends in the streams and little crooks, a big house and a little shack. In usually monotonous areas, like grasslands or forests, you need to have both a big landscape feature that dominates the whole area, and smaller features that individualize separate sections. Basically, you want to make sure that the player always has something small and interesting right in front of them to look at, and something big and interesting way off in the background to look at. Done well, the small detail helps the viewer understand the big detail, like a boulder helps you wrap your head around what a mountain is.

5)Make sure to change the lighting. There are a few lighting presets on the vault, enough to get you started. The defaults are terrible, and make everything look fake.

6)Keep scale in mind. You might want to place a creature down in the area while you're building, just to remind yourself how big exactly everything should be.

7)A little bit of grass goes a long way. Set the brush to 10%, small size, and just click here and there, don't hold the button down. Put a little down next to buildings and other placeables, to break-up their hard lines, and in tufts in open, grassy areas to give some relief.

8)Build each area with a particular mood in mind, and keep things simple.

Modifié par Lugaid of the Red Stripes, 05 janvier 2012 - 05:07 .


#9
M. Rieder

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Build the terrain with the plot in mind. Terrain is a big part of the plot. It isn't just where stuff happens, it is part of what happens. It makes a module more interesting when terrain can be part of combat tactics or part of a story line or something like that.

Also, elevation is very exiting. Mountains, cliffs, pits, chasms... things like that are very exciting.

#10
Naruxius

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Thank you everyone!

I looked through zicada1's tutorial, which kevL posted, it really gave me alot of tips and ideas about how to build the terrain. I'll make sure to recommend it to anyone who is a beginner and wants to get into the NWN2 toolset.

I still have a hard time getting the texture blending to work well however, but I assume thats something that needs alot of practise. I will probably be working with the toolset this weekend and see if I can get better at it.

Fyrekrest, yes I noticed how I can do more variety on the terrain. I never even thought of the idea that I could use "flatten" to raise the terrain, then smooth it down so that it looks pretty realistic. Untill just recently I was just using the "raise" button and trying to shape the world with that, which could be the reason why everything looked so artificial and manmade.

Lugaid, I think you got me there about the landscapes. Maybe I was striving for something thats too hard to achieve. I'll try to make the landscapes more exaggerated.

M. Reider, you probably have a point about the plot. I actually didnt think too much about the plot... I guess I need to do some writing tonight. Tried making a chasm yesterday, but I just couldnt figure out how to make it since the bottom of the "pit" was always visible in the game and I wanted it to look... endless or extremely steep.

I will try some basic scripting this weekend aswell, at this very moment I am doing some research to find some good tutorials or tips, such as knightmare's scripting for noobs. Trying to find as much tools/documentations as possible, since I am not the sharpest knife in the box lol.

I realized I need to add more humanoids to my map for height reference, I took this advice a little too lightly.

I made this map, looked alright in the editor.
http://steamcommunit...50222814231297/

Then I tried the map...
http://steamcommunit...50222813882742/

The tall vegetation made it impossible to navigate around the map, since you actually lose track of the character.
http://steamcommunit...50222813930406/

Well, lesson learned! :D

Oh, the steam screenshots have been a bit wonky today, if it shows up as a broken image or something, you can probably refresh a couple of times and it will appear.

Everyone have helped me so much to get started with the toolset, I very much appreciate all the advice you guys/gals gave me. Very grateful!

Modifié par Naruxius, 06 janvier 2012 - 01:47 .


#11
Shaughn78

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The screen shots are looking pretty good. A couple of suggestions:
-You want to breakup the stark lines between textures. Your first screen shot. The line between the mud and grass needs a bit more blending, us layers at various setting. I like using 30-40% for blending. Spots that are higher should have more grass and lower spots should have more mud. Adding coloring will also help blend you textures. Using a green and brown at 5-10% pressure will help with the transition to mud.

-For your chasm RWS has some cliff wall placeables. These can be used instead of texturing and prevent the stretched out look you get with tall vertical surfaces. For the bottomless look you have several optinions. The easiest may be to use the tile block placeable and scale it so it is a flat rectangle and place it at the bottom of the chasm. No there will be a black bottomless pit. Be use to make it an environmental object. A bit of fog VFX along the bottom will also give it that blur of depth as well.

Modifié par Shaughn78, 06 janvier 2012 - 02:04 .


#12
PJ156

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These look okay

What Shaugn said about colour.

I see you are already using grey on the mud beach but, as Shaugn said, using pea green at 10 % under larger clumps of grass helps. Using a warm brown under trees will create a more natural look. I use a brush that has a centre of 1 and the outer around 8 (15 for under trees) a single click is enough under trees but it takes some practice.

Try not to be too naturalistic in the toolset. You can spend hours being subtle in the toolset only to find it looks washed out in the game. You need to experiment with how bold you need to be in the toolset but I was suprised at how bold it was.

Also try paiting colour on a flat area with the surface mesh on. Colour does not apply evenly everywhere you need to be on a node rather than between nodes. It can make things quite patchy but hat may be what you want. 

PJ

Modifié par PJ156, 06 janvier 2012 - 07:28 .


#13
M. Rieder

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Use terrain and texture to compliment each other. When you have a hill, use a slightly lighter texture on the raised area to accent the elevation change. When you have a forest, use the color tab under texture to slightly darken the textures under the trees to give the appearance of shadows cast by the trees.

Use grass to accent rocks, trees, old outbuildings, old carts, things like that. Also, use grass and texture together. IF you have a grassland area, use a grass texture intermixed with one of the lighter dirt textures. Paint the grass over the grass texture and leave the dirt texture bare.

When you paint down the texture for a country road, try to leave some grass color texture in the middle to give the appearance of grass growing between ruts made by wagon wheels.

The areas look good, by the way. You are doing a good job of breaking up patterns and avoiding flat terrain.

#14
_Knightmare_

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Another option for the deep, bottomless chasm is to use the black color to paint towards the bottom. Blending in shades of dark colors or grey can help with the transition downwards.