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Gotholhorakh wrote...
What I disagree with, is the notion that BioWare is sexist. What is sexist - literally and definitively sexist is the notion that something is sexist if it has a man in it, and that it should be changed to the "correct gender".
Just that Bioware is using the same one over and over. The problem is not Shepard or the Warden or Hawke. It is that they are all white and male. In the trailers. Or how many companions/squadmates are black or asian in the 4 games? Yes, one, Jacob. I'm really not counting Isabella from DA2 because any white girl could have just the same tan in summer and aside from skin color she does not possess any racial feature that would to something different than caucasian. And no, Qunari don't count either.Dean_the_Young wrote...
And this is where your failing is. You're confusing cause and effect.AlexXIV wrote...
It's racist because they are shaping the preference of their audience.
And quite horribly so, because this position would make any successful character with any distinctive identifiers racist and/or sexist, or whatever else they can be identified as.
The sad thing was that I thought you were outrageously out of line, before the last few pages.Ticktank wrote...
He's white. Racist!
He's young. BW hates old people!
He's straight. Once again society is oppressing gay people!
He's human. Animal hater!
He's smart. Liberal agenda!
He doesn't look like my Shepard. BW doesn't listen to fans!
This is stupid.
Dean_the_Young wrote...
The sad thing was that I thought you were outrageously out of line, before the last few pages.Ticktank wrote...
He's white. Racist!
He's young. BW hates old people!
He's straight. Once again society is oppressing gay people!
He's human. Animal hater!
He's smart. Liberal agenda!
He doesn't look like my Shepard. BW doesn't listen to fans!
This is stupid.
I'm sorry.
Except, of course, they aren't. They chose to continue a pre-established character advertisement from ME1 to ME2, and and created a second character (who isn't even The Warden) for a DAO trailer. Besides the nasty differentiation between Bioware departments, there are other games that aren't fitting your pattern that you are selectively ignorring.AlexXIV wrote...
Just that Bioware is using the same one over and over.Dean_the_Young wrote...
And this is where your failing is. You're confusing cause and effect.AlexXIV wrote...
It's racist because they are shaping the preference of their audience.
And quite horribly so, because this position would make any successful character with any distinctive identifiers racist and/or sexist, or whatever else they can be identified as.
Which isn't a racist act. Or a problem.The problem is not Shepard or the Warden or Hawke. It is that they are all white and male. In the trailers.
And Kasumi.Or how many companions/squadmates are black or asian in the 4 games? Yes, one, Jacob.
Seriously? Now you're moving goal posts. Might as well say that Jacob is wearing blackface while you're at it, since he could be white under a spray-on.I'm really not counting Isabella from DA2 because any white girl could have just the same tan in summer and aside from skin color she does not possess any racial feature that would to something different than caucasian. And no, Qunari don't count either.
Modifié par Dean_the_Young, 05 janvier 2012 - 03:03 .
Take ME2:AlexXIV wrote...
Just that Bioware is using the same one over and over. The problem is not Shepard or the Warden or Hawke. It is that they are all white and male. In the trailers. Or how many companions/squadmates are black or asian in the 4 games? Yes, one, Jacob. I'm really not counting Isabella from DA2 because any white girl could have just the same tan in summer and aside from skin color she does not possess any racial feature that would to something different than caucasian. And no, Qunari don't count either.Dean_the_Young wrote...
And this is where your failing is. You're confusing cause and effect.AlexXIV wrote...
It's racist because they are shaping the preference of their audience.
And quite horribly so, because this position would make any successful character with any distinctive identifiers racist and/or sexist, or whatever else they can be identified as.
Dean_the_Young wrote...
I'd disagree on one particular thing: racism/sexism is an issue... but it's no longer the issue it once was, and not all decisions can be villified by it.Last Vizard wrote...
BW or EA pretty much the same thing, my point is that it means nothing... racism/sexism isn't an issue anymore and until everyone has a tea spoon of cement and stops projecting their own fears/views such as sexism and racism onto others we'll be just fine.
Pretty much.RynJ wrote...
It would be nice to see more "faces" to video games that weren't white males, but don't count on it. All in all, marketing will appeal to their biggest demographic, and for video games that is white males.
That doesn't mean they are sexist or racist, they're just trying to make as much money as they can and in the end that's all that matters to any business.
Your pattern is that Bioware is a North American company that advertises in market demographics that are predominantly white, and you're calling that fact racist because they don't throw in token minorities as the advertising for the sake of a token minority.AlexXIV wrote...
Dean_the_Young wrote...
The sad thing was that I thought you were outrageously out of line, before the last few pages.Ticktank wrote...
He's white. Racist!
He's young. BW hates old people!
He's straight. Once again society is oppressing gay people!
He's human. Animal hater!
He's smart. Liberal agenda!
He doesn't look like my Shepard. BW doesn't listen to fans!
This is stupid.
I'm sorry.
It's not about one case. It is about a pattern. I said it before. Just the same as if someone steps on your foot. Once, happens, twice, coincidence, thrice, etc. At some point you will just assume it wasn't random.
Modifié par Dean_the_Young, 05 janvier 2012 - 03:06 .
I am as grateful for that as they are for me buying their games tbh. Because customizing my own hero, including sex, race, etc. is the reason I buy their games still. Just sayin'.Darth Death wrote...
Sexist? Far from it. I think the people who complain about this particular issue are lacking in the appreciation department. They can't seem to appreciate the effort that BioWare has taken to make this a possibility. Not a lot of gamers play as femshep, but despite that BioWare still cater to the minority. I'm willing to bet the decision to implement femshep initially was a financial risk, but yet again BioWare took to the challenge. Instead of whining about a femshep trailer, be grateful you have the option to play as the female gender.
There's nothing wrong requesting a femshep trailer, but to go as far to calling it sexist? That's just ridiculous.
Darth Death wrote...
Not a lot of gamers play as femshep...
And I say that there is nothing wrong with purposefully catering to your chosen demographic. Now if Bioware used well worn stereotypes in their female, black, asian, white, etc. characters that would be racist and/or sexist. Bioware has not done so. Each character in a bioware game is unique. Look at Anderson or at Ashley Williams for crying out loud. Ashley Williams: Marine Badass, and Captain/Chancellor Anderson: Former Spectre, friend to Commander Shepard, political behemoth.AlexXIV wrote...
It's not about one case. It is about a pattern. I said it before. Just the same as if someone steps on your foot. Once, happens, twice, coincidence, thrice, etc. At some point you will just assume it wasn't random.
Their target demographic are probably not male white gamers alone. Mind you they are the main target, but not exclusively. Not to mention that many of them prefer femShep over Sheploo. Also if they want to expand as they say they do, just saying'. English is not a language exclusively to the english. Not to mention english is not the only language in which you can play ME. I bet the 'male white demographic' which can only relate to a 'male white hero' is smaller than most of you think.Dean_the_Young wrote...
Your pattern is that Bioware is a North American company that advertises in market demographics that are predominantly white, and you're calling that fact racist because they don't throw in token minorities as the advertising for the sake of a token minority.AlexXIV wrote...
Dean_the_Young wrote...
The sad thing was that I thought you were outrageously out of line, before the last few pages.Ticktank wrote...
He's white. Racist!
He's young. BW hates old people!
He's straight. Once again society is oppressing gay people!
He's human. Animal hater!
He's smart. Liberal agenda!
He doesn't look like my Shepard. BW doesn't listen to fans!
This is stupid.
I'm sorry.
It's not about one case. It is about a pattern. I said it before. Just the same as if someone steps on your foot. Once, happens, twice, coincidence, thrice, etc. At some point you will just assume it wasn't random.
And you don't understand what racism actually entails.
Guest_DuckSoup_*
Second time you say that yet to fail to explain. I'm still waiting you know. This going to be good I am laughing already.Dean_the_Young wrote...
And you don't understand what racism actually entails.
Or hey, remember this FO3 commercial? Seems to be an aweful lot of white in there...rabidhanar wrote...
Oh and I am sorry but when I think of Skyrim I remember this
(Pause at 1:07) That seems to be a White Male Protagonist there...if my eyes are not playing tricks on me. So yeah... is Bethesda now racist/sexist?
I said it in my first post of the topic. If you want to go broader, racism is the idea that intrensic different traits in human racial groups justify discrimination.AlexXIV wrote...
Second time you say that yet to fail to explain. I'm still waiting you know. This going to be good I am laughing already.Dean_the_Young wrote...
And you don't understand what racism actually entails.
That's not a lot... And I'm not trying to add salt to the wound but: http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2011/07/20/only-18-of-mass-effect-players-play-female/didymos1120 wrote...
Darth Death wrote...
Not a lot of gamers play as femshep...
Plenty do. About 1/5th of all ME players. That works out to a lot of people.
Modifié par Darth Death, 05 janvier 2012 - 03:19 .
No one said they were.AlexXIV wrote...
Their target demographic are probably not male white gamers alone. Mind you they are the main target, but not exclusively.
Which is ultimately why Bioware had a contest to make an official femShep for advertising purposes.Not to mention that many of them prefer femShep over Sheploo.
Do you know where most of Bioware's non-English sales are?Also if they want to expand as they say they do, just saying'. English is not a language exclusively to the english. Not to mention english is not the only language in which you can play ME. I bet the 'male white demographic' which can only relate to a 'male white hero' is smaller than most of you think.
Darth Death wrote...
That's not a lot... And I'm not trying to add salt to the wound but: http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2011/07/20/only-18-of-mass-effect-players-play-female/didymos1120 wrote...
Darth Death wrote...
Not a lot of gamers play as femshep...
Plenty do. About 1/5th of all ME players. That works out to a lot of people.
With that said, I'm trying to discredit those who play as femshep. This is only for citation proposes.
Dean_the_Young wrote...
Do you know where most of Bioware's non-English sales are?Also if they want to expand as they say they do, just saying'. English is not a language exclusively to the english. Not to mention english is not the only language in which you can play ME. I bet the 'male white demographic' which can only relate to a 'male white hero' is smaller than most of you think.
Europe.
(Which, if you weren't aware, is mostly European in ethnicity. That means white.)
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