387 réponses à ce sujet

[nitefyre410]

Dean_the_Young wrote...

AlexXIV wrote...

Dean_the_Young wrote...

Ticktank wrote...

He's white. Racist!
He's young. BW hates old people!
He's straight. Once again society is oppressing gay people!
He's human. Animal hater!
He's smart. Liberal agenda!
He doesn't look like my Shepard. BW doesn't listen to fans!

This is stupid.

The sad thing was that I thought you were outrageously out of line, before the last few pages.

I'm sorry.

It's not about one case. It is about a pattern. I said it before. Just the same as if someone steps on your foot. Once, happens, twice, coincidence, thrice, etc. At some point you will just assume it wasn't random.

Your pattern is that Bioware is a North American company that advertises in market demographics that are predominantly white, and you're calling that fact racist because they don't throw in token minorities as the advertising for the sake of a token minority.

And you don't understand what racism actually entails.

No the pattern is that someone just does not like the way Defualt   Shepard looks so their using the arguement of racims and or sexism to  come down on the avatar.  

Female   has the same exact lines and reachtions as  Male Shepard, they are same character. There  can be no portrayal of character that is sexist or not sexist, racist or not racist. Because there is no character but what we the player   chooses.  

[rabidhanar]

Dean_the_Young wrote...

rabidhanar wrote...
Oh and I am sorry but when I think of Skyrim I remember this
(Pause at 1:07) That seems to be a White Male Protagonist there...if my eyes are not playing tricks on me. So yeah... is Bethesda now racist/sexist?

Or hey, remember this FO3 commercial? Seems to be an aweful lot of white in there...

The early Oblivion Trailer also only has White Characters in it. The protagonist seems to be a White male wearing Imperial Guard Armor, hard to spot. i can go on even further in the past, but I think we made our point.

Nothing wrong with doing this.

[Ashley_SR2]

RynJ wrote...

It would be nice to see more "faces" to video games that weren't white males, but don't count on it. All in all, marketing will appeal to their biggest demographic, and for video games that is white males.

That doesn't mean they are sexist or racist, they're just trying to make as much money as they can and in the end that's all that matters to any business.

@RynJ - It's hopeless, good buddy I've mentioned similar facets earlier in the thread. This forum is too busy and people only read the last few posts in a thread so a lot gets missed. Plus the prevailing demographic here seems to be nerds with very narrowminded thinking.

[Darth Death]

Hellbound555 wrote...

Darth Death wrote...

didymos1120 wrote...

Darth Death wrote...

Not a lot of gamers play as femshep...

Plenty do.  About 1/5th of all ME players.  That works out to a lot of people.

That's not a lot... And I'm not trying to add salt to the wound but: http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2011/07/20/only-18-of-mass-effect-players-play-female/

With that said, I'm trying to discredit those who play as femshep. This is only for citation proposes.   

1 in 5.

for every 500 players, 100 of them are woman. for every 500,000 players, 100,000 of them are women. that seems like a lot to me.

Not in comparison though it's not... That's the point I'm trying to make. 

[AlexXIV]

Dean_the_Young wrote...

AlexXIV wrote...

Their target demographic are probably not male white gamers alone. Mind you they are the main target, but not exclusively.

No one said they were.

Not to mention that many of them prefer femShep over Sheploo.

Which is ultimately why Bioware had a contest to make an official femShep for advertising purposes.

Also if they want to expand as they say they do, just saying'. English is not a language exclusively to the english. Not to mention english is not the only language in which you can play ME. I bet the 'male white demographic' which can only relate to a 'male white hero' is smaller than most of you think.

Do you know where most of Bioware's non-English sales are?

Europe.

(Which, if you weren't aware, is mostly European in ethnicity. That means white.)

World's getting more open every day. If of course they are happy only selling in NA and EU, then ok.

[didymos1120]

Darth Death wrote...

That's not a lot...

OK then.  Give me a definition of "a lot".  Is it 30%? 40%?  50%? 53.43925%?

[Dean_the_Young]

Hellbound555 wrote...

Dean_the_Young wrote...

Also if they want to expand as they say they do, just saying'. English is not a language exclusively to the english. Not to mention english is not the only language in which you can play ME. I bet the 'male white demographic' which can only relate to a 'male white hero' is smaller than most of you think.

Do you know where most of Bioware's non-English sales are?

Europe.

(Which, if you weren't aware, is mostly European in ethnicity. That means white.)

and that means what to you exactly?

That Bioware's non-english customer base is still largely white. Which is a fact for bioware to consider in its advertising strategy, because you advertise to your consumer base.

and what does that to do about the lack of a female trailer?

What made you think that it had anything to do with the femShep?

The lack of a femShep before was that Bioware's advertising strategy was focusing on its main customer demographic of male. The lack of a femShep since the contest is unknown, but could range from simply 'have not released it yet' to 'still under construction.'

Modifié par Dean_the_Young, 05 janvier 2012 - 03:26 .

[AlexXIV]

[quote]Dean_the_Young wrote...

[quote]Hellbound555 wrote...

[quote]Dean_the_Young wrote...

[quote]
Also if they want to expand as they say they do, just saying'. English is not a language exclusively to the english. Not to mention english is not the only language in which you can play ME. I bet the 'male white demographic' which can only relate to a 'male white hero' is smaller than most of you think.[/quote]Do you know where most of Bioware's non-English sales are?

Europe.

(Which, if you weren't aware, is mostly European in ethnicity. That means white.)

[/quote]

and that means what to you exactly? [/quote]That Bioware's non-english customer base is still largely white.



[quote]and what does that to do about the lack of a female trailer?[/quote]What made you think that it had anything to do with the femShep?

The lack of a femShep before was that Bioware's advertising strategy was focusing on its main customer demographic of male. The lack of a femShep since the contest is unknown, but could range from simply 'have not released it yet' to 'still under construction.'

[/quote]
[/quote]
I'll send you a pm when the game launches without the trailer.

[Homebound]

Darth Death wrote...

Hellbound555 wrote...

Darth Death wrote...

didymos1120 wrote...

Darth Death wrote...

Not a lot of gamers play as femshep...

Plenty do.  About 1/5th of all ME players.  That works out to a lot of people.

That's not a lot... And I'm not trying to add salt to the wound but: http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2011/07/20/only-18-of-mass-effect-players-play-female/

With that said, I'm trying to discredit those who play as femshep. This is only for citation proposes.   

1 in 5.

for every 500 players, 100 of them are woman. for every 500,000 players, 100,000 of them are women. that seems like a lot to me.

Not in comparison though it's not... -snip-

100,000 people is a lot. and seeing as mass effect 2 sold over 2 million copies, those 1 in 5's add up to a lot. the female gamers for mass effect have a very large presence, ignoring them and saying they dont count is silly.

[rabidhanar]

AlexXIV wrote...
I'll send you a pm when the game launches without the trailer.

And I will happily send you a pm when a trailer does come out.
See, we both can make predictions! Did that help your case in any way?

[aksoileau]

Ugh this thread has turned for the worse.

[Homebound]

Dean_the_Young wrote...

Hellbound555 wrote...

Dean_the_Young wrote...

Also if they want to expand as they say they do, just saying'. English is not a language exclusively to the english. Not to mention english is not the only language in which you can play ME. I bet the 'male white demographic' which can only relate to a 'male white hero' is smaller than most of you think.

Do you know where most of Bioware's non-English sales are?

Europe.

(Which, if you weren't aware, is mostly European in ethnicity. That means white.)

and that means what to you exactly?

That Bioware's non-english customer base is still largely white. Which is a fact for bioware to consider in its advertising strategy, because you advertise to your consumer base.

and what does that to do about the lack of a female trailer?

What made you think that it had anything to do with the femShep?

look at the thread title...

[AlexXIV]

rabidhanar wrote...

Dean_the_Young wrote...

rabidhanar wrote...
Oh and I am sorry but when I think of Skyrim I remember this
(Pause at 1:07) That seems to be a White Male Protagonist there...if my eyes are not playing tricks on me. So yeah... is Bethesda now racist/sexist?

Or hey, remember this FO3 commercial? Seems to be an aweful lot of white in there...

The early Oblivion Trailer also only has White Characters in it. The protagonist seems to be a White male wearing Imperial Guard Armor, hard to spot. i can go on even further in the past, but I think we made our point.

Nothing wrong with doing this.

Well they are mostly showing gameplay. You just have to pick a character to show gameplay. But tbh at least in Fallout it wasn't necessary to pick Whitey Whitenose. Well but still Betheda is not picking a 'face' for their franchise/games.

[Dean_the_Young]

AlexXIV wrote...

World's getting more open every day. If of course they are happy only selling in NA and EU, then ok.

The world gets more open. Consumer markets are not the same. Token characters for advertisings to not break open a market.

[Darth Death]

didymos1120 wrote...

Darth Death wrote...

That's not a lot...

OK then.  Give me a definition of "a lot".  Is it 30%? 40%?  50%? 53.43925%?

The example you gave was 'a lot' by the definition of overall gamers, but in comparison to male vs. female players the percentage is quite small. I'd say 3 in 5 or more would be a lot.

[Dean_the_Young]

Hellbound555 wrote...

look at the thread title...

Read the context of a thread 11 pages later.

[Candidate 88766]

Hellbound555 wrote...

Darth Death wrote...

Hellbound555 wrote...

Darth Death wrote...

didymos1120 wrote...

Darth Death wrote...

Not a lot of gamers play as femshep...

Plenty do.  About 1/5th of all ME players.  That works out to a lot of people.

That's not a lot... And I'm not trying to add salt to the wound but: http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2011/07/20/only-18-of-mass-effect-players-play-female/

With that said, I'm trying to discredit those who play as femshep. This is only for citation proposes.   

1 in 5.

for every 500 players, 100 of them are woman. for every 500,000 players, 100,000 of them are women. that seems like a lot to me.

Not in comparison though it's not... -snip-

100,000 people is a lot. and seeing as mass effect 2 sold over 2 million copies, those 1 in 5's add up to a lot. the female gamers for mass effect have a very large presence, ignoring them and saying they dont count is silly.

He's not saying they don't count, he's saying that despite 400,000 people playing as FemShep there are 1,600,000 people not playing as FemShep. There may be a lot of FemShep players but according to those stats they are still in the minority. 

Modifié par Candidate 88766, 05 janvier 2012 - 03:33 .

[AlexXIV]

rabidhanar wrote...

AlexXIV wrote...
I'll send you a pm when the game launches without the trailer.

And I will happily send you a pm when a trailer does come out.
See, we both can make predictions! Did that help your case in any way?

If the trailer comes before launch I win. If it doesn't I at least get to send you guys a pm.

[rabidhanar]

Every single poster I saw of Skyrim had Mr. Freezing Cold there on it. His Face wearing the helmet and two wispy smoke trails going around it.

Here is one now.

AlexXIV wrote...
If the trailer comes before launch I win. If it doesn't I at least get to send you guys a pm.

There is no winning or losing in this. You think this is a contest?

Modifié par rabidhanar, 05 janvier 2012 - 03:35 .

[Dean_the_Young]

AlexXIV wrote...

I'll send you a pm when the game launches without the trailer.

You probably won't. You're not honest enough to acknowledge that Bioware has made and promoted games without centering on white males, both in the past (Jade Empire) and present (SWTOR), so even if you did remember you probably would just say nothing.

[AlexXIV]

Dean_the_Young wrote...

AlexXIV wrote...

I'll send you a pm when the game launches without the trailer.

You probably won't. You're not honest enough to acknowledge that Bioware has made and promoted games without centering on white males, both in the past (Jade Empire) and present (SWTOR), so even if you did remember you probably would just say nothing.

What? I said Jade Empire was long ago and SWTOR is an MMO there is not even a single protagonist in that game.

Also, I didn't say I send you a pm if you're right. But feel free to do it.

Modifié par AlexXIV, 05 janvier 2012 - 03:39 .

[Gotholhorakh]

I honestly think this knee-jerk monitoring of everybody and everything for PCness is the arch enemy of egalitarianism and liberal progressive change - it does nothing but provoke defensive revulsion in most people.

BioWare is a company that has fostered and encouraged an inclusive atmosphere in its games and community for all people - and taken a hell of a lot of flak for it - I can't see how anyone can dispute that since the evidence of it is plain for us all to see.

The fact that BioWare, even BioWare can be in the reticule, targeted as "sexist" and "racist" on such a mindless basis is further evidence of how silly it all is. Pull yourselves together, BioWare is obviously not out to be sexist.

Modifié par Gotholhorakh, 05 janvier 2012 - 03:39 .

[AlexXIV]

rabidhanar wrote...

Every single poster I saw of Skyrim had Mr. Freezing Cold there on it. His Face wearing the helmet and two wispy smoke trails going around it.

Here is one now.

AlexXIV wrote...
If the trailer comes before launch I win. If it doesn't I at least get to send you guys a pm.

There is no winning or losing in this. You think this is a contest?

Still can't see his face. He is just a Nord in a game that plays in the Skyrim which is the homeland of the Nord. Some things just make sense the way they are. And as I said, that they even had to pick the white guy in Fallout is a shame. Still not the poster boy of the game.

Modifié par AlexXIV, 05 janvier 2012 - 03:38 .

[Double_02]

Who is femshep?

[Dean_the_Young]

AlexXIV wrote...

Dean_the_Young wrote...

AlexXIV wrote...

I'll send you a pm when the game launches without the trailer.

You probably won't. You're not honest enough to acknowledge that Bioware has made and promoted games without centering on white males, both in the past (Jade Empire) and present (SWTOR), so even if you did remember you probably would just say nothing.

What? I said Jade Empire was long ago

And so were ME1 and DAO. Selectively setting the goal posts to shut out anything to the contrary is dishonest. Mass Effect 1 is closer to Jade Empire than it is to now.

and SWTOR is an MMO there is not even a single protagonist in that game.

There is: you.

SWTOR is a story-centered game revolving around the player. It's effectively DA if someone else could join in to help you with your quests. It's a standard Bioware plotline, including the character being the center of the story development across a self-contained plotline.


SWTOR is as much a Bioware RPG as any other.

Modifié par Dean_the_Young, 05 janvier 2012 - 03:40 .