398 réponses à ce sujet

[Fault Girl]

jreezy wrote...

Bekkael wrote...

Kaidan stated in ME1 that he enjoyed serving under Shepard. I doubt that sentiment has changed. If anything, that feeling has probably only increased during their separation.

More innuendo from Bekkael, gotta love it.

On topic:

I just love how people are feeling threatened by another character possibly outranking them, Bioware isn't making the VS the new Shepard. They will not be in charge. Heck as already stated Anderson nearly always let Shepard decide what to do, well it does have to fit in with gameplay mechanics.

Your game, your choices!

Heck nearly every other PC questions you at one point. Miranda does in ME2 and others, in which they are technically under Shepard.

[Silver77nz]

I don't know why Kaidan being a major is such a big deal. This is
shepard's story and Shepard will always be in charge no matter what.
People got their feelings hurt on Horizion. I understand that but sticks
and stones. Can you not reverse the roles? Can you not see it from his
perspective or is this only about you? Everyone has faced someone at
some point in their own life hurting them by calling them names. I
understand the frustration due to the lack of us being able to express
our anger about being called a traitor but that will all be resolved.

Also Admiral Anderson gave direct orders to Kaidan and James. The
message was to get to the Normandy to escort Shepard off Earth. Then in
front of both James and Kaidan Admiral Anderson reinstated Shepard and
gave Shepard direct orders to to go to Mars and the Council. He didn't
look at Kaidan and give those orders he specifically gave those orders
to Shepard. He transfered power over to Shepard in front of them. Which
tells James and Kaidan that Shepard is now following Admiral Anderson
orders to go to Mars and the Council. They can not go against Admiral
Anderson orders and Admiral Anderson gave direct orders to Shepard. They
can question some of his decisions but they must follow Shepard. He/she
is now in command.


A few people keep bringing up how they saved the whole colony and Kaidan's ass. Did you forget he was frozen in stasis? He couldn't move!!! He was lured into a trap and new nothing about how the collectors used those bugs to trap humans into stasis. He didn't sit on his ass he was frozen. I know I have heard how he magically appears after battle but that is called PLOT ARMOR. He needs to be alive for ME3. Also the stasis might of had to do with the collector ship proximity. Once they left it broke stasis and then Kaidan was able to move. As you know biotics are less affected from the side affects than normal people.

Why this is such a big deal I will never understand<_<

[Drone223]

Silverpearl1977 wrote...

*wall of text*

I thinks its because people happen to have a huge ego about Shepard, they don't like it when some one stands up to thier Shepard, they want everyone to bow down and worship Shepard (sounds harsh I know but that's what it looks like) or they can't accept that the VS was going through a lot of emotion's when they discovered Shepard was alive they are just being human,
 
The VS knew what Shepard was doing but their emotion's got the best of them , they proberly feel bad for calling Shepard a tratior (since Shepard is working with terrorist after all and seeing what they did e.g. Alliance marine's and experiments of colonist)

People will never agree with their leader all the time and will at times question what they are doing that's the reality of being a leader, the best thing a leader can do is listen to the concern's their follower's, they don't have to agree with it but they should at least understand thier perspective a leader can always learn from their follower's

Modifié par Drone223, 06 janvier 2012 - 10:24 .

[Silver77nz]

Drone223 wrote...

Silverpearl1977 wrote...

*wall of text*

I thinks its because people happen to have a huge ego about Shepard, they don't like it when some one stands up to thier Shepard, they want everyone to bow down and worship Shepard (sounds harsh I know but that's what it looks like) or they can't accept that the VS was going through a lot of emotion's when they discovered Shepard was alive they are just being human,
 
 

I agree with that as well. Actually I would love someone with actually real military experience to answer some questions for me. I think people forget that Shepard was almost charged with treason but was pardoned due to Anderson and saving the council.

So the question to those with military background

What would be the charges against Ashley/Kaidan is they did in fact leave and follow Shepard? What would happen when the Military also learned they were working for a known terriost group? Charged with going A-wall, treason, imprisonment, and possible execution? I think people forget about the Military consequences of leaving and following Shep. So anyone with Military background can you please answer that please:)

[Dariustwinblade]

Chakwas and Joker was also Alliance personal. Think about them when judging the VS. How they act and how the VS acts.

[implodinggoat]

Silverpearl1977 wrote...

So the question to those with military background

What would be the charges against Ashley/Kaidan is they did in fact leave and follow Shepard?

I'm not in the military; but I'm from a military family.

If you abandoned your post you would be charged with desertion and be dishonorably discharged and you would likely serve some time in a military prison as well particularly if you endangered the lives of others by abandoning your post.

These repurcussions might be avoided in some remarkable circumstances like for example when Shepard saved the citadel by going AWOL; but in the case of the VS, joining Shepard would almost certainly have been the end of their military career.

That said my objection to the VS actions was never the fact that they didn't join up with Shepard.   That was always totally justified in my eyes (as opposed to Liara's refusal which didn't make a lick of sense).  My objection was to the fact that the VS  had the gall to accuse Shepard of being a traitor literally minutes after he had just saved their life and the lives of the colonists who the VS had been tasked with protecting.

Modifié par implodinggoat, 06 janvier 2012 - 11:02 .

[implodinggoat]

Dariustwinblade wrote...

Chakwas and Joker was also Alliance personal. Think about them when judging the VS. How they act and how the VS acts.

I can actually relate to the VS position to a degree since my Shepard would have turned the SR2 over to the Alliance as soon as possible and arrested the entire Cerberus crew including Chakwas and Joker.  Sadly this option never presented itself and the game forced me to be the Illusive Man's errand boy.

That said the VS was totally unjustified in acting high and mighty right after Shepard had pulled their ass out of the proverbial fire by saving the colony.   They may not approve of Shepard's actions; but at that point they sure as hell weren't in any position to be passing judgement.

Now what really would have been interesting is if the VS had asserted that the Shepard they knew died two years ago and that the Shepard they were looking at now was just some twisted Cerberus experiment.   That would have been a good justification and it would have been a lot more dramatic.   But since they start the conversation by defending you as the real Shepard and elaborating about how magnificent you are their sudden turn into self righteousness judgementalism feels quite out of place.

Modifié par implodinggoat, 06 janvier 2012 - 11:13 .

[raist747]

Silverpearl1977 wrote...

So the question to those with military background

What would be the charges against Ashley/Kaidan is they did in fact leave and follow Shepard? What would happen when the Military also learned they were working for a known terriost group? Charged with going A-wall, treason, imprisonment, and possible execution? I think people forget about the Military consequences of leaving and following Shep. So anyone with Military background can you please answer that please:)

The punishment for Destertion can range from Non-Juducal types of punishment all the way up to the Death Pentalty in a time of war. A Court Martial will be convined reguardless due to the sevarity of the crime

http://usmilitary.ab...les/a/mcm85.htm

As someone in the Military, I'd guess from examples of people who have deserted or worked with enemy forces recently, he'd probably get a Dishonorably Discharged and Imprisoned for life or executed. If he's lucky, a Bad Conduct Discharge and a few years in jail.

Shepard is a Commander.

Kaidan is a Major. 

IRL, Commanders outrank Majors.

In Mass Effect, Majors outrank Commanders.

I'm still flabbergasted why they promoted Ashley to a mere Lieutenant. Realisitcally, that's more of a Demotion.

[AlexXIV]

They are Specters. (Am I repeating myself? Yes I am. Am I answering my own questions? Yes I am.)

They don't need to 'leave' to follow Shepard. They are just doing their jobs going with Shepard.

[BiggBno]

implodinggoat wrote...

Dariustwinblade wrote...

Chakwas and Joker was also Alliance personal. Think about them when judging the VS. How they act and how the VS acts.

I can actually relate to the VS position to a degree since my Shepard would have turned the SR2 over to the Alliance as soon as possible and arrested the entire Cerberus crew including Chakwas and Joker.  Sadly this option never presented itself and the game forced me to be the Illusive Man's errand boy.

That said the VS was totally unjustified in acting high and mighty right after Shepard had pulled their ass out of the proverbial fire by saving the colony.   They may not approve of Shepard's actions; but at that point they sure as hell weren't in any position to be passing judgement.

Now what really would have been interesting is if the VS had asserted that the Shepard they knew died two years ago and that the Shepard they were looking at now was just some twisted Cerberus experiment.   That would have been a good justification and it would have been a lot more dramatic.   But since they start the conversation by defending you as the real Shepard and elaborating about how magnificent you are their sudden turn into self righteousness judgementalism feels quite out of place.

Actually the VS (at least Ashley does) do mention they believe that Cerberus is manipulating Shepard to believe she is in charge. So the VS has reasons to not trust her and ofcourse the emotiional aspect has something to do with it as well.  The one thing I think is missing is an apology letter even if you didn' romance them, as they still were close in ME1.

[Lars10178]

Wait, so Ashley and \\Kaiden are being promoted to spectre? that sucks if so.

[spirosz]

Why does it matter if Kaidan outranks Sheploo. From my perspective, I'd worry more about defeating the Reapers than focusing on "x" outranks me. My Shepard will still be the one calling the shots (hopefully), regardless of anyone's rank.

[Lars10178]

I'll be using Garrus and anyone but Kaiden or Ash. I didn't like either. Probably Wrex again if he makes a return as a fulltime character. I Garrus+Wrex combo

[Luigitornado]

Kaiden and Ashley as leaders?

EW.

Don't f-ing think so.

Modifié par Luigitornado, 06 janvier 2012 - 02:00 .

[Silver77nz]

Dariustwinblade wrote...

Chakwas and Joker was also Alliance personal. Think about them when judging the VS. How they act and how the VS acts.

Joker was not imprisioned or charged with desertion but he was punished by being grounded. Chakwas slipped thru the cracks in the story because they wanted her in the story. I'm sure that she would of been in trouble as well.

AlexXIV wrote...

They are Specters. (Am I repeating myself? Yes I am. Am I answering my own questions? Yes I am.)
They don't need to 'leave' to follow Shepard. They are just doing their jobs going with Shepard.

Are you referring to my question above about Horizion and them not being able to leave? If you are that was ME2 and they are NOT spectres so no they can't just leave.

Also ty Implodinggoat and Raist for answering my question about Military consequences. :happy:

[outlaw1109]

even in the first game, when Hackett is telling you about a mission, he says that Shep, while a Spectre, is still a human and he still answers to the Alliance, even though they weren't obviously pressing the issue.

Not that it matters. Shep is in charge of the Normandy. That's his/her command, if a senior officer chooses to become a member of the crew then that supercedes rank. At least, that's the way it works IRL. The reason it is done that way, at least IRL, is unit cohesion. The unit is used to the way their leaders operate and won't operate as efficiently under someone that just walks up and says "I'm in charge now."


Edit:  I should say that this is my experience from being in the U.S. Military, other RL militaries may be different.  In the U.S., at least, higher ranking officials defer to whomever is in charge of the unit.

Also, as far as the U.S. military goes, the Army/Marines do not have a "Commander" rank.

Marines

Army

Modifié par outlaw1109, 06 janvier 2012 - 03:20 .

[Chuvvy]

Lars10178 wrote...

Wait, so Ashley and Kaiden are being promoted to spectre? that sucks if so.

Ash is not only a Spectre, but she's also a LT Commander. The same rank as Shepard, she shot up six ranks in two years. I don't think that's how the military works.

Modifié par Slidell505, 06 janvier 2012 - 03:16 .

[Dariustwinblade]

The VS dosen't start the game as Spectres they become one halfway through.

And if you have read the leak the way they become one is mindnumblingly stupid.

[seirhart]

outlaw1109 wrote...

even in the first game, when Hackett is telling you about a mission, he says that Shep, while a Spectre, is still a human and he still answers to the Alliance, even though they weren't obviously pressing the issue.

Not that it matters. Shep is in charge of the Normandy. That's his/her command, if a senior officer chooses to become a member of the crew then that supercedes rank. At least, that's the way it works IRL. The reason it is done that way, at least IRL, is unit cohesion. The unit is used to the way their leaders operate and won't operate as efficiently under someone that just walks up and says "I'm in charge now."


Edit:  I should say that this is my experience from being in the U.S. Military, other RL militaries may be different.  In the U.S., at least, higher ranking officials defer to whomever is in charge of the unit.

Also, as far as the U.S. military goes, the Army/Marines do not have a "Commander" rank.

Marines

Army

that is all wrong though, and hackett is wrong as well both the ambassador and anderson both say that shepard answers to no one but the council. Thats how it works once you become a spectre there is nothing your government can do to you and if they interfere with you then the council is going to have problems with your former government.

Once shepard became a spectre he became the property of the council and is answerable to the council and no one else and doesn't belong to the alliance anymore.

[Destroy Raiden_]

I always took Hackets word about us still having to answer to the Alliance as poke to say remember where you came from shep. It was a way of saying despite his promotion he was still beholden to the Alliance because without them pushing for him to get there he wouldn't have made spector at all. I'm sure Anderson got a similar speech when he was in recruitment stage.

[outlaw1109]

I think it was more of a "don't burn your bridges" kind of thing. As I said, they weren't really pressing the issue on it, so again, it's a "maintain rapport" kind of deal.

The point of my post was to simply point out that (at least in the case of Admiral Hackett) Shepard is still viewed as a part of the SA even if he/she doesn't acknowledge it....

seirhart wrote...

outlaw1109 wrote...

*Snip*

that is all wrong though, and hackett is wrong as well both the ambassador and anderson both say that shepard answers to no one but the council. Thats how it works once you become a spectre there is nothing your government can do to you and if they interfere with you then the council is going to have problems with your former government.

Once shepard became a spectre he became the property of the council and is answerable to the council and no one else and doesn't belong to the alliance anymore.

You're also wrong about Udina.  He says that he still has to deal with the "S*** Storm."  Which is, IMO, his way of saying that Humanity will suffer the consequences of Shepard's actions.  If the council views Shepard as strictly one of their own and no longer a part of the SA, then, technically, there shouldn't be any reprecussions to the SA/humanity.

Modifié par outlaw1109, 06 janvier 2012 - 09:19 .

[jasonsantanna]

@outlaw, the alliance is a combo of navy &marines thats why there is a commander rank

[outlaw1109]

jasonsantanna wrote...

@outlaw, the alliance is a combo of navy &marines thats why there is a commander rank

IIRC, Commander is a navy rank (am too lazy to look it up), but a few pages back someone suggested that Major wasn't a rank...I don't remember the context, but I was trying to point out that they are the same rank (even the insignia are the same) one is used by "ground forces" while the other is used by the Navy...

Modifié par outlaw1109, 06 janvier 2012 - 09:25 .