398 réponses à ce sujet

[HolyAvenger]

didymos1120 wrote...

HolyAvenger wrote...

didymos1120 wrote...

HolyAvenger wrote...

Spectre = None of this rank BS.

Normandy = Alliance vessel w/ Alliance crew = Rank still matters.

Spectres exist outside rank structure. If Anderson puts Shepard in command, it doesn't matter what his/her rank is.

Anderson doesn't, and what part of "Alliance vessel" don't you understand?  Remember the beginning of ME1?  That Nihlus guy?  Spectre right?  Was not the boss of the Normandy.

Because Nihlus was supposed to be an observer on said mission 1, not in charge of it. 

Anderson specifically order Shepard to go out and get help and come back to save Earth, imo putting Shep in charge of the Normandy to fulfil said mission. He even re-instates Shep's Alliance rank but I don't think that matters as Shep's Spectre status supersedes any rank-related nonsense.

I'm not sure why the fact the Normandy is an Alliance vessel should stop Shepard being CO. Its a complicated hierarchy as the Alliance is under the Council (or running the Council) and Spectre is a Council-granted status.

[daftPirate]

HolyAvenger wrote...

I'm not sure why the fact the Normandy is an Alliance vessel should stop Shepard being CO. Its a complicated hierarchy as the Alliance is under the Council (or running the Council) and Spectre is a Council-granted status.

When does the Alliance ever fall under the Council or run it? The closest the Alliance comes to "running" the council is whatever political influence they exert over human councilors, but they don't run it, and are certainly never beneath it.

[Helena Tylena]

daftPirate wrote...

HolyAvenger wrote...

I'm not sure why the fact the Normandy is an Alliance vessel should stop Shepard being CO. Its a complicated hierarchy as the Alliance is under the Council (or running the Council) and Spectre is a Council-granted status.

When does the Alliance ever fall under the Council or run it? The closest the Alliance comes to "running" the council is whatever political influence they exert over human councilors, but they don't run it, and are certainly never beneath it.

Technically, Alliance-controlled space is part of council space, and thus must answer to council laws.
Other than that, I got nothing. However, the authority of spectres IS widely accepted. I believe the fact that they can shoot anyone without repercussions has something to do with it.

[HolyAvenger]

daftPirate wrote...

HolyAvenger wrote...

I'm not sure why the fact the Normandy is an Alliance vessel should stop Shepard being CO. Its a complicated hierarchy as the Alliance is under the Council (or running the Council) and Spectre is a Council-granted status.

When does the Alliance ever fall under the Council or run it? The closest the Alliance comes to "running" the council is whatever political influence they exert over human councilors, but they don't run it, and are certainly never beneath it.

Um what? ME1 makes clear that the Alliance has to toe the Council line as it falls in Council space and is not powerful enough to stand up against all three Council species. If you chose the renegade ending in ME1 then Alliance basically takes over running the Council. If you chose the Paragon ending in 1, then the Alliance gains a representative on the Council but still has to fall under its laws and wishes. 

[silentassassin264]

Well Kaiden is dead and I am pretty sure I, err Shepard, outranks a corpse.

[seirhart]

Anderson reinstated shepard and told him/her that their orders is to unite all races and go to the council and get help, which means that the normandy is shepards ship and shepard is in charge.

[daftPirate]

Helena Tylena wrote...

daftPirate wrote...

HolyAvenger wrote...

I'm not sure why the fact the Normandy is an Alliance vessel should stop Shepard being CO. Its a complicated hierarchy as the Alliance is under the Council (or running the Council) and Spectre is a Council-granted status.

When does the Alliance ever fall under the Council or run it? The closest the Alliance comes to "running" the council is whatever political influence they exert over human councilors, but they don't run it, and are certainly never beneath it.

Technically, Alliance-controlled space is part of council space, and thus must answer to council laws.
Other than that, I got nothing. However, the authority of spectres IS widely accepted. I believe the fact that they can shoot anyone without repercussions has something to do with it.

Well, I wouldn't disagree that Shepard could comandeer the Normandy, if it weren't for the VS also being a Spectre. I'd like to think that the VS would defer to Shepard, being more experienced and generally believed to be "the problem solver". Maybe so, maybe not. What I'd rather see is the Alliance/Anderson simply putting the Normandy under his command(Which, to me, is the logical decision anyway, even in light of the batarian problem, which is utterly overshadowed by the reaper invasion).

edit: And even though Alliance space is, first and foremost, Council space, I think that's very different from the Council controlling the Alliance(which is what I gathered from the previous post, and my apologies if I misinterpreted it). It's easier to see how a human councilor/council would equate to the Alliance running things, but I believe they're still very separate organizations.

Modifié par daftPirate, 05 janvier 2012 - 10:04 .

[Helena Tylena]

seirhart wrote...

Anderson reinstated shepard and told him/her that their orders is to unite all races and go to the council and get help, which means that the normandy is shepards ship and shepard is in charge.

True. I believe Anderson is admiral at this point, and I'm fairly sure admiral outranks whatever Kaid or Ash is at the time.

[didymos1120]

Helena Tylena wrote...

If an Alliance ship is on loan to the council, it is used as if it were property of the council, and de facto of the Spectre who uses it.

If.

[AlexXIV]

didymos1120 wrote...

Helena Tylena wrote...

If an Alliance ship is on loan to the council, it is used as if it were property of the council, and de facto of the Spectre who uses it.

If.

The normandy was a cross species coop anyway. It is quite possible the Normandy was part of the deal of Shepard becoming Spectre. Which means it is a Council Spectre Ship. You can actually even tell one of the Admirals to shove off when he wants to inspect the Normandy and you never hear from him again. Not to mention you don't get ordered by the Alliance. All missions Shep accepts for Hackett are voluntarily.

Anyway, the 'new' Normandy is from Cerberus. So who could claim it or take it from a Spectre who 'lend' it from Cerberus? The Council? Most likely. The Alliance? Less likely. The Alliance has no right to take anything from the Council.

Modifié par AlexXIV, 05 janvier 2012 - 10:11 .

[DiebytheSword]

didymos1120 wrote...

Helena Tylena wrote...

If an Alliance ship is on loan to the council, it is used as if it were property of the council, and de facto of the Spectre who uses it.

If.

+1 for using perhaps the finest piece of smack talk ever uttered, let alone finest smack talk ever spoken by the Spartans.

[Helena Tylena]

AlexXIV wrote...


Anyway, the 'new' Normandy is from Cerberus. So who could claim it or take it from a Spectre who 'lend' it from Cerberus? The Council? Most likely. The Alliance? Less likely. The Alliance has no right to take anything from the Council.

On that last point, the Alliance is as much at war with Cerberus as the Council. At least officially. As such, since Shepard landed the ship on Earth (which is very much Alliance territory), they have every right to confiscate it, and retrofit it to become an Alliance vessel. They also pretty much do so, new coat of paint included.

[AlexXIV]

Helena Tylena wrote...

AlexXIV wrote...


Anyway, the 'new' Normandy is from Cerberus. So who could claim it or take it from a Spectre who 'lend' it from Cerberus? The Council? Most likely. The Alliance? Less likely. The Alliance has no right to take anything from the Council.

On that last point, the Alliance is as much at war with Cerberus as the Council. At least officially. As such, since Shepard landed the ship on Earth (which is very much Alliance territory), they have every right to confiscate it, and retrofit it to become an Alliance vessel. They also pretty much do so, new coat of paint included.

So if a Spectre lands with his/her ship on Earth the Alliance has every right to confiscate it? Even against the will of said Spectre and the Council? Do the words political ****storm tell you anything? Not to mention, even without Council or Spectre status the Alliance doesn't want to cross Shepard. Because I promise you this, if they touch the Normandy without asking Shep first then help to save Earth may be arriving a bit late.

[Helena Tylena]

AlexXIV wrote...

Helena Tylena wrote...

AlexXIV wrote...


Anyway, the 'new' Normandy is from Cerberus. So who could claim it or take it from a Spectre who 'lend' it from Cerberus? The Council? Most likely. The Alliance? Less likely. The Alliance has no right to take anything from the Council.

On that last point, the Alliance is as much at war with Cerberus as the Council. At least officially. As such, since Shepard landed the ship on Earth (which is very much Alliance territory), they have every right to confiscate it, and retrofit it to become an Alliance vessel. They also pretty much do so, new coat of paint included.

So if a Spectre lands with his/her ship on Earth the Alliance has every right to confiscate it? Even against the will of said Spectre and the Council? Do the words political ****storm tell you anything? Not to mention, even without Council or Spectre status the Alliance doesn't want to cross Shepard. Because I promise you this, if they touch the Normandy without asking Shep first then help to save Earth may be arriving a bit late.

Well, no. The Alliance is not at war with the Council.  My point was that they are at war with Cerberus, and that, therefor, any Cerberus craft or equipment is fair game.

[Virginian]

jasonsantanna wrote...

Kaidan, out ranks Shep now. . .

Kaidan has out ranked Shepard since ME2. In ME3 he now out ranks him even more.

[AlexXIV]

Helena Tylena wrote...

AlexXIV wrote...

Helena Tylena wrote...

AlexXIV wrote...


Anyway, the 'new' Normandy is from Cerberus. So who could claim it or take it from a Spectre who 'lend' it from Cerberus? The Council? Most likely. The Alliance? Less likely. The Alliance has no right to take anything from the Council.

On that last point, the Alliance is as much at war with Cerberus as the Council. At least officially. As such, since Shepard landed the ship on Earth (which is very much Alliance territory), they have every right to confiscate it, and retrofit it to become an Alliance vessel. They also pretty much do so, new coat of paint included.

So if a Spectre lands with his/her ship on Earth the Alliance has every right to confiscate it? Even against the will of said Spectre and the Council? Do the words political ****storm tell you anything? Not to mention, even without Council or Spectre status the Alliance doesn't want to cross Shepard. Because I promise you this, if they touch the Normandy without asking Shep first then help to save Earth may be arriving a bit late.

Well, no. The Alliance is not at war with the Council.  My point was that they are at war with Cerberus, and that, therefor, any Cerberus craft or equipment is fair game.

It's not a Cerberus ship. It's Shepards. He captured it from Cerberus. If it was a Cerberus crew it would be different. But I guess they recognize Shepard well enough. Also I guess the ship is still controlled by EDI/Joker. So seriously, they can't do nothing to the Normandy without asking Shepard first. Unless they want to blow it up.

[Helena Tylena]

AlexXIV wrote...

Helena Tylena wrote...

AlexXIV wrote...

Helena Tylena wrote...

AlexXIV wrote...


Anyway, the 'new' Normandy is from Cerberus. So who could claim it or take it from a Spectre who 'lend' it from Cerberus? The Council? Most likely. The Alliance? Less likely. The Alliance has no right to take anything from the Council.

On that last point, the Alliance is as much at war with Cerberus as the Council. At least officially. As such, since Shepard landed the ship on Earth (which is very much Alliance territory), they have every right to confiscate it, and retrofit it to become an Alliance vessel. They also pretty much do so, new coat of paint included.

So if a Spectre lands with his/her ship on Earth the Alliance has every right to confiscate it? Even against the will of said Spectre and the Council? Do the words political ****storm tell you anything? Not to mention, even without Council or Spectre status the Alliance doesn't want to cross Shepard. Because I promise you this, if they touch the Normandy without asking Shep first then help to save Earth may be arriving a bit late.

Well, no. The Alliance is not at war with the Council.  My point was that they are at war with Cerberus, and that, therefor, any Cerberus craft or equipment is fair game.

It's not a Cerberus ship. It's Shepards. He captured it from Cerberus. If it was a Cerberus crew it would be different. But I guess they recognize Shepard well enough. Also I guess the ship is still controlled by EDI/Joker. So seriously, they can't do nothing to the Normandy without asking Shepard first. Unless they want to blow it up.

But it IS a Cerberus crew. Any human on board that ship who is not a squadmember, Joker or Hacksaw is Cerberus personel. To the last.
EDIT: And I shouldn't even mention Joker because "Hell yeah, I joined Cerberus"

Modifié par Helena Tylena, 05 janvier 2012 - 10:36 .

[AlexXIV]

Helena Tylena wrote...

But it IS a Cerberus crew. Any human on board that ship who is not a squadmember, Joker or Hacksaw is Cerberus personel. To the last.
EDIT: And I shouldn't even mention Joker because "Hell yeah, I joined Cerberus"

Shep's a Council Spectre. They don't answer to anyone other than the Council. So if Shep says 'this is my crew and my ship' then that's the state of affairs unless the Council has something different to say. Mind you the Alliance may convince the Council to give everything to them. But as I said, pissing off Shepard in the last of the trilogy is probably a big mistake. If they know what they have with him/her they just won't.

[seirhart]

AlexXIV wrote...

Helena Tylena wrote...

But it IS a Cerberus crew. Any human on board that ship who is not a squadmember, Joker or Hacksaw is Cerberus personel. To the last.
EDIT: And I shouldn't even mention Joker because "Hell yeah, I joined Cerberus"

Shep's a Council Spectre. They don't answer to anyone other than the Council. So if Shep says 'this is my crew and my ship' then that's the state of affairs unless the Council has something different to say. Mind you the Alliance may convince the Council to give everything to them. But as I said, pissing off Shepard in the last of the trilogy is probably a big mistake. If they know what they have with him/her they just won't.

what about those who in ME 2 didn't get reinstated or refused to get reinstated as a spectre? 

Now those who got reinstated as a spectre no matter what the alliance has zero right to confiscate the normandy or any ship that belongs to the council and as a spectre the normandy is shepards ship but is the council's ship even if a human is a council member the alliance would get in trouble with messing with an council spectre and the councils ship.

Also it doesn't matter if kaiden or ashly outranks shepard, the normandy is shepards ship and shepard has the final say on what goes on in the normandy or out of it. Also I highly doubt that kaiden or ashly will pull rank on shepard especially with shepard the go to guy/lady when it comes to the reapers and getting all the races together under one unified force.

[KadianK]

Sebbe1337o wrote...

No, because Kaidan died on all my playthroughs.

That'll suck that means you have to listen to the infernal natering of Ashley Williams. Damn bi*tch.

I have something against all the "sexy women" in Mass Effect. Liara, she's the romantic type, I can handle her. Liara romance for the win.

Ashley and Miranda fail. =)

[didymos1120]

That's pretty funny, considering the entire asari race was designed to be sexy. They're ME's answer to Orion Slave Girls.

[seirhart]

KadianK wrote...

Sebbe1337o wrote...

No, because Kaidan died on all my playthroughs.

That'll suck that means you have to listen to the infernal natering of Ashley Williams. Damn bi*tch.

I have something against all the "sexy women" in Mass Effect. Liara, she's the romantic type, I can handle her. Liara romance for the win.

Ashley and Miranda fail. =)

seven of my play throughs I saved Kaiden with Kirahe. Though in the 8 th playthrough I saved Ashley along with kirahe and let Kaiden go. What I'd like to do is in ME 3 get rid of the suriving member of virmire either it be Kaiden or Ashly (yes I know the blashpemy) with the one with ashly alive I cheated on ashly with miranda and I will stay with miranda on that unless I find someone more interesting than her.

[KadianK]

seirhart wrote...

KadianK wrote...

Sebbe1337o wrote...

No, because Kaidan died on all my playthroughs.

That'll suck that means you have to listen to the infernal natering of Ashley Williams. Damn bi*tch.

I have something against all the "sexy women" in Mass Effect. Liara, she's the romantic type, I can handle her. Liara romance for the win.

Ashley and Miranda fail. =)

seven of my play throughs I saved Kaiden with Kirahe. Though in the 8 th playthrough I saved Ashley along with kirahe and let Kaiden go. What I'd like to do is in ME 3 get rid of the suriving member of virmire either it be Kaiden or Ashly (yes I know the blashpemy) with the one with ashly alive I cheated on ashly with miranda and I will stay with miranda on that unless I find someone more interesting than her.

Liara, is more interesting than both.

I always sent Kaiden with Kirahe, so you know. I can't stand Ashley, and I'm starting to feel a hatred towards Kaiden after our conversation in the termius systems.

[Note] - My account name is no way at all based on Kaiden from Mass Effect, truth be told, I made this name up randomly about 5 years ago, before even knowing the existence of the name "Kaden, Kaiden".

[KadianK]

didymos1120 wrote...

That's pretty funny, considering the entire asari race was designed to be sexy. They're ME's answer to Orion Slave Girls.

The point is I don't find Liara sexy. Personal preference and opinion mate.

[Helena Tylena]

KadianK wrote...

seirhart wrote...

KadianK wrote...

Sebbe1337o wrote...

No, because Kaidan died on all my playthroughs.

That'll suck that means you have to listen to the infernal natering of Ashley Williams. Damn bi*tch.

I have something against all the "sexy women" in Mass Effect. Liara, she's the romantic type, I can handle her. Liara romance for the win.

Ashley and Miranda fail. =)

seven of my play throughs I saved Kaiden with Kirahe. Though in the 8 th playthrough I saved Ashley along with kirahe and let Kaiden go. What I'd like to do is in ME 3 get rid of the suriving member of virmire either it be Kaiden or Ashly (yes I know the blashpemy) with the one with ashly alive I cheated on ashly with miranda and I will stay with miranda on that unless I find someone more interesting than her.

Liara, is more interesting than both.

I always sent Kaiden with Kirahe, so you know. I can't stand Ashley, and I'm starting to feel a hatred towards Kaiden after our conversation in the termius systems.

[Note] - My account name is no way at all based on Kaiden from Mass Effect, truth be told, I made this name up randomly about 5 years ago, before even knowing the existence of the name "Kaden, Kaiden".

Your avatar is kind of Kaidan-y, though.