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[Kakistos_]

Terror_K wrote...

Put it this way... when you see a speeding freight train heading towards a broken bridge and the people at the controls keep saying, "we'll stop in time" when they aren't slowing and all evidence given seems to indicate that they won't and aren't really even trying to, then it's hard to believe that they won't end up in the drink.

It's all well to have faith and all, but BioWare have long since shown that the once true adage of "trust BioWare" is dead, and almost nothing they've shown me illustrates that they've made the right decisions and are taking Mass Effect in the right direction. It still seems more about bringing in new fans than appealing to existing ones, and they still seem far too willing to toss their once-great universe down the toilet if it means appealing to the hardcore CoD and Gears crowd.

After Mass Effect 2 and Dragon Age 2 and most of the decisions that have been made since EA took the helm, I just can't see ME3 bringing back what ME1 had that ME2 lost. They're still too hung up on following modern trends and mass appeal to make something special, IMO.

'Tis exactly how I feel. I do however think that ME3 will be an improvement over past indiscretions. Bioware does pay attention to the forums and I have faith that they have considered all of our conerns.

[Genshie]

Kakistos_ wrote...

Terror_K wrote...

Put it this way... when you see a speeding freight train heading towards a broken bridge and the people at the controls keep saying, "we'll stop in time" when they aren't slowing and all evidence given seems to indicate that they won't and aren't really even trying to, then it's hard to believe that they won't end up in the drink.

It's all well to have faith and all, but BioWare have long since shown that the once true adage of "trust BioWare" is dead, and almost nothing they've shown me illustrates that they've made the right decisions and are taking Mass Effect in the right direction. It still seems more about bringing in new fans than appealing to existing ones, and they still seem far too willing to toss their once-great universe down the toilet if it means appealing to the hardcore CoD and Gears crowd.

After Mass Effect 2 and Dragon Age 2 and most of the decisions that have been made since EA took the helm, I just can't see ME3 bringing back what ME1 had that ME2 lost. They're still too hung up on following modern trends and mass appeal to make something special, IMO.

'Tis exactly how I feel. I do however think that ME3 will be an improvement over past indiscretions. Bioware does pay attention to the forums and I have faith that they have considered all of our conerns.

 I don't understand if someone has absolutely no faith and no "trust of BioWare" why they are even posting in their forums then...? *Not directed at the person I just quoted but to Terror*

[Terror_K]

Genshie wrote...

I don't understand if someone has absolutely no faith and no "trust of BioWare" why they are even posting in their forums then...? *Not directed at the person I just quoted but to Terror*

Because I'm still a fan of Mass Effect, or at least what it once was. Because they might surprise me. And because if those of us who weren't entirely happy with ME2's general direction had just kept quiet, then we likely wouldn't be getting things like weapon modding, more customisation and more RPG elements back in ME3 in the first place. Thankfully as much as BioWare seem to want to pander to a more mainstream audience lately, they still somewhat want to keep their old fans too... to a degree anyway.

In either case, Mass Effect 3 will basically be my make or break for BioWare. They could manage to pull it off and make something special. They could bring back the feeling of ME1 again and bring back that "more than the sum of its parts" feeling of immersion that ME2 completely lacked. The fact is though, beyond some promises and attempts to placate some of us with no real evidence to show for it, that doesn't look to really be the case. Almost all their marketing makes ME3 look awful and even worse and more "dudebro" than ME2 leaned, but they also have a lot of encouraging things they've said as well. The problem is, they've shown very little actual hard proof of the more positive-sounding factors since it's mostly in the form of the odd post or Twit, etc. rather than shown to us directly, and almost everything that is shown to us looks terrible.

[SirBoomstick]

Because they expect the worst and wish to be pleasantly surprised?

[StephanieBengal]

Terror_K wrote...

Genshie wrote...

I don't understand if someone has absolutely no faith and no "trust of BioWare" why they are even posting in their forums then...? *Not directed at the person I just quoted but to Terror*

Because I'm still a fan of Mass Effect, or at least what it once was. Because they might surprise me. And because if those of us who weren't entirely happy with ME2's general direction had just kept quiet, then we likely wouldn't be getting things like weapon modding, more customisation and more RPG elements back in ME3 in the first place. Thankfully as much as BioWare seem to want to pander to a more mainstream audience lately, they still somewhat want to keep their old fans too... to a degree anyway.

In either case, Mass Effect 3 will basically be my make or break for BioWare. They could manage to pull it off and make something special. They could bring back the feeling of ME1 again and bring back that "more than the sum of its parts" feeling of immersion that ME2 completely lacked. The fact is though, beyond some promises and attempts to placate some of us with no real evidence to show for it, that doesn't look to really be the case. Almost all their marketing makes ME3 look awful and even worse and more "dudebro" than ME2 leaned, but they also have a lot of encouraging things they've said as well. The problem is, they've shown very little actual hard proof of the more positive-sounding factors since it's mostly in the form of the odd post or Twit, etc. rather than shown to us directly, and almost everything that is shown to us looks terrible.

I'm glad you feel that way...

Guess what? I don't feel that way...

I thought about adding something else, but after reading your post -- you go hard for what you believe no matter if you would be wrong. So whatever you say, hope you'll find some happiness in March. 

[xentar]

What's there to be optimistic about?

[Dovahzaan]

xentar wrote...

What's there to be optimistic about?

Mass Effect 3 has, unlike ME2, a plot. That's something.

[xentar]

Dovahzaan wrote...
Mass Effect 3 has, unlike ME2, a plot. That's something.

Something to be... neutral about.

[Icinix]

When ME1 came out - I was like, hell yeah! Here is a game that doesn't use objectified women and excessive swearing and crazy amounts of explosions and terrible rooster rock to sell. Its deep, there is choice, its intelligent etc.

Then - the forums erupted. "this shooter sucks, I can't run out of bullets? Thats stupid!" - "the elvators are dumb, this is a game about elevators" - "I can't drive this shark buggy up a vertical cliff face - YOU GUYS SUCK". "Choice? Whats that? Can't someone choose stuff for me? I just want to click and boom things."

Then - they made ME2 - ...it was....less than what ME1 promised for the future of games....if you speak out about it - you are torn to pieces by the fans who are now thrilled the game is less open RPG and more corridor shooter.

Now ME3 - ME3 has show nothing buy action, action - and a few more pieces of action.

There hasn't been a lot to get optimistic about.

That said - I am more than happy to sit in the "Failure (or success, depending on where you sit) of marketing" camp.

Just my 5 cents.

[abaris]

Icinix wrote...


Now ME3 - ME3 has show nothing buy action, action - and a few more pieces of action.

I'm on hold with my expectations for several reasons, Origins being the most prominent of them. But to judge a game by it's trailers isn't one of them. In the trailers they probably include as much crash/boom/bang as possible, which says nothing about the game as a whole.

[Icinix]

abaris wrote...

Icinix wrote...


Now ME3 - ME3 has show nothing buy action, action - and a few more pieces of action.

I'm on hold with my expectations for several reasons, Origins being the most prominent of them. But to judge a game by it's trailers isn't one of them. In the trailers they probably include as much crash/boom/bang as possible, which says nothing about the game as a whole.

As mentioned - I said I'm happy to sit in the failure of marketing camp - same as ME2 - it wasn't until Launch trailer and just before release we saw the good stuff.

But its the more the fact there hasn't been anything to get optimistic about - if I knew nothing about Mass Effect and saw only what I've seen for ME3.

I would think its an over the shoulder Call of Duty.

[xentar]

Icinix wrote...

But its the more the fact there hasn't been anything to get optimistic about - if I knew nothing about Mass Effect and saw only what I've seen for ME3.

I would think its an over the shoulder Call of Duty.

Which is probably what the businesss side decision makers are counting on, given the wide audience. And they don't really need to show anything interesting because the long term fans will likely buy the game anyway, just to finish the story they might have invested 100+ hours in, whether they think they will enjoy it or not. Which is probably one of the main sources of the pessimism being discussed.

Modifié par xentar, 09 janvier 2012 - 10:20 .

[RazielPC]

I don't care for Bioware's Dragon Age games, I never found them to be my kind of game so whatever happened with Dragon Age 2 hasn't bothered me. And besides, I'm sure the Mass Effect team wasn't responsible for that.

Mass Effect was amazing, the one game I continue to play, over and over again without losing interest.

Mass Effect 2 was even better, probably the greatest game I have, to date.

I have no doubt that Mass Effect 3 is going to be greatest entry to the series.

[Lotion Soronarr]

I'm a pessimist because I see no reason whatsoever to be an optimist in this case.


DA:O and ME1 where both lon in developmetn and were almsot done befire EA took over. Which is why they were good.

DA2 and ME2 have the EA influence visible on them. They are both going in a direction I do not like.

And we all know what happens to good studios that get taken over by EA. They spam progressively worse sequeles and are eventually grinded to dust. Remember Westwood?

Then there's the matter of the leaked script - which is IMHO horrible -  and past experience with leaked scripts indicates it's not far off from the final product.

I'll be pleasantly surprised if ME3 ends up really good.
And if it doesn't, at least I'll have "I told you so":lol:

[Icinix]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

I'm a pessimist because I see no reason whatsoever to be an optimist in this case.


DA:O and ME1 where both lon in developmetn and were almsot done befire EA took over. Which is why they were good.

DA2 and ME2 have the EA influence visible on them. They are both going in a direction I do not like.

And we all know what happens to good studios that get taken over by EA. They spam progressively worse sequeles and are eventually grinded to dust. Remember Westwood?

Then there's the matter of the leaked script - which is IMHO horrible -  and past experience with leaked scripts indicates it's not far off from the final product.

I'll be pleasantly surprised if ME3 ends up really good.
And if it doesn't, at least I'll have "I told you so":lol:

Yeah to all of this as well - and remember Origin - the Game studio - before EA bought them and turned the name into that...thing...I now have installed.

Its been down hill ever since.

[xentar]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...
And we all know what happens to good studios that get taken over by EA. They spam progressively worse sequeles and are eventually grinded to dust. Remember Westwood?

An interesting analogy, given that Bioware now work on the next C&C game. Might as well start betting on who will work on C&C after Bioware.

[Homey C-Dawg]

xentar wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...
And we all know what happens to good studios that get taken over by EA. They spam progressively worse sequeles and are eventually grinded to dust. Remember Westwood?

An interesting analogy, given that Bioware now work on the next C&C game. Might as well start betting on who will work on C&C after Bioware.

I was excited about Bioware C&C at first, then after some investigating I realised that "Bioware" is now being used as a brand name to lend credability to other studios. The studio making Generals2 (Victory) is mostly composed of the same people who made the last few C&C games. I doubt anyone from the Bioware we know will have anything to do with the project.

[Mister Mida]

xentar wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...
And we all know what happens to good studios that get taken over by EA. They spam progressively worse sequeles and are eventually grinded to dust. Remember Westwood?

An interesting analogy, given that Bioware now work on the next C&C game. Might as well start betting on who will work on C&C after Bioware.

PopCap maybe.

[Homey C-Dawg]

Mister Mida wrote...

xentar wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...
And we all know what happens to good studios that get taken over by EA. They spam progressively worse sequeles and are eventually grinded to dust. Remember Westwood?

An interesting analogy, given that Bioware now work on the next C&C game. Might as well start betting on who will work on C&C after Bioware.

PopCap maybe.

[Killjoy Cutter]

Homey C-Dawg wrote...

xentar wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

And we all know what happens to good studios that get taken over by EA. They spam progressively worse sequeles and are eventually grinded to dust. Remember Westwood?

An interesting analogy, given that Bioware now work on the next C&C game. Might as well start betting on who will work on C&C after Bioware.

I was excited about Bioware C&C at first, then after some investigating I realised that "Bioware" is now being used as a brand name to lend credability to other studios. The studio making Generals2 (Victory) is mostly composed of the same people who made the last few C&C games. I doubt anyone from the Bioware we know will have anything to do with the project.

It's EA, so there is no surprise in this. 

[PaulSX]

Terror_K wrote...

Genshie wrote...

I don't understand if someone has absolutely no faith and no "trust of BioWare" why they are even posting in their forums then...? *Not directed at the person I just quoted but to Terror*

Because I'm still a fan of Mass Effect, or at least what it once was. Because they might surprise me. And because if those of us who weren't entirely happy with ME2's general direction had just kept quiet, then we likely wouldn't be getting things like weapon modding, more customisation and more RPG elements back in ME3 in the first place. Thankfully as much as BioWare seem to want to pander to a more mainstream audience lately, they still somewhat want to keep their old fans too... to a degree anyway.

In either case, Mass Effect 3 will basically be my make or break for BioWare. They could manage to pull it off and make something special. They could bring back the feeling of ME1 again and bring back that "more than the sum of its parts" feeling of immersion that ME2 completely lacked. The fact is though, beyond some promises and attempts to placate some of us with no real evidence to show for it, that doesn't look to really be the case. Almost all their marketing makes ME3 look awful and even worse and more "dudebro" than ME2 leaned, but they also have a lot of encouraging things they've said as well. The problem is, they've shown very little actual hard proof of the more positive-sounding factors since it's mostly in the form of the odd post or Twit, etc. rather than shown to us directly, and almost everything that is shown to us looks terrible.

Oh, man. Do not put faith in any game developer these days.  I learned that lesson from dragon age II.  Back to DA Origins, people said a lot of good things about that game and hoping Bioware to keep the trend but they still turned DA2 to an ugly mess. I liked Mass Effect 2 so I am still looking forward to ME3. However, ME1 fans should already realize that it will either be like ME2 or worse. you know EA is money's man and bioware is a part of them.

[Lumikki]

I'm fine by ME3 game it self, haven't much pay attention because so many spoilers. My only issues are Origin client and MP. One stops me buying the game and other just delays. But I will hope EA does the right thing, so I can actually buy the game.

[sevach]

I thought ME1 was awesome and i was really excited (so i used to be an optimist) for ME2 which imo ended up being (very) good, if a bit dissapointing.

I don't care much for the new improvements, aditions, multiplayer and everything...
I've read the leak and thought it was cringe worthy at times, and i don't think they quite pulled the trilogy thing off.

Even so it will still be at least a ME2 level game i think, good, very good even...
The thing is with ME1 and promises of a trilogy Bioware set themselves up for a challenge they couldn't possibly meet.
I think it will end up both good and a dissapointment.

[CrutchCricket]

"Leave Mass Effect 3 alone!!":crying:

[Balek-Vriege]

If ME3 turns out to be one of the best games ever, I think the people who posted endless amounts of complaints on these boards should apologize to the community for forcing us to read them.
 

On a more serious note, I think the complaints about ME3 are pretty baseless.  Pick any thread complaining about ME3 features.  After 15 pages it turns out those complaining seemed to forget the features thread, rant more about Dragon Age 2, marketing etc. and depict EA as an evil empire (which it may or may not be, but they have the cash to fund some pretty awsome games).  There just isn't any factual evidence strong enough pointing to ME3 being anything less than ME1 or ME2.  The closest was the leaked storyboard "script" hacked out of a leaked and very dated press demo (earlier than the one the press got to see during the spring, summer and fall).  It was obvious to anyone not biased against Bioware that it was clearly unfinished and thread's like "Garrus is not in the game!!  But he's in the trailers how could you cut him out at the last minute!" laughable.

It was different with Dragon Age 2 as there were some features which seemed questionable at the time.  I know I even got a heavy heart from some of the new features announced.   The saving grace for me was the combat (not battle implementation) and Hawke's not so serious dialogue paths.  It appears the DA team got the message and improved the gameplay a lot in the DLCs.

So if the DA team already got the message who originally made glaring mistakes with DA2 (who have officially said so by the way), why do so many believe the ME team will make the same mistakes with all evidence pointing to the contrary?  Or do many not understand that they're two very different teams of people working on two different franchises?  Or do you fear EA is the main force in dumbing down the games?

If so to the latter question I would recommend to anyone to read or reread the features thread again and look at the trailers.  I could be proven wrong with the soon to be released demo, but I doubt it.  Two issues I do think are worthy though:

-  There needs to be a trailer focusing on RPG/story features.  Hard to do when it seems the story and dialogue are very spoilerific in ME3, but it needs to be done.  That would possibly quell a lot of RPG fan heartache.
-  The second and bigger issue is Origin which doesn't have anything to do with the gameplay itself, but needs clarification.

Modifié par Balek-Vriege, 09 janvier 2012 - 06:21 .