142 réponses à ce sujet

[Biotic Sage]

[Off-topic post removed.]

Modifié par Stanley Woo, 07 janvier 2012 - 10:28 .

[tetrisblock4x1]

Biotic Sage wrote...

Swampthing500 wrote...

Let's see.

You had  the option to choose your character background, appearance, skills and class

You had dialogue options

You had options to resolve different quests

You had options to save or leave the Council to die.

You had options when levelling up.

You had options when equipping armour and weapons.

No no no.  They mean the specific options they want; your entire list is immediately dismissed.  What they don't realize is they have the option to choose not to play the game.

Gameplay choices, read idiots.

[Biotic Sage]

tetrisblock4x1 wrote...

Biotic Sage wrote...

Swampthing500 wrote...

Let's see.

You had  the option to choose your character background, appearance, skills and class

You had dialogue options

You had options to resolve different quests

You had options to save or leave the Council to die.

You had options when levelling up.

You had options when equipping armour and weapons.

No no no.  They mean the specific options they want; your entire list is immediately dismissed.  What they don't realize is they have the option to choose not to play the game.

Gameplay choices, read idiots.

I was responding to Kaiser and his kind.  His arguments are what your thread has evolved into.  And it was kind of inevitable because you posted a very misleading topic title.  If you want to discuss gameplay options, then you need to explicitly put "gameplay options" as the title.  Otherwise people (especially on these forums) are going to talk about what we've been talking about.

Modifié par Biotic Sage, 06 janvier 2012 - 03:13 .

[Cloaking_Thane]

tetrisblock4x1 wrote...

Biotic Sage wrote...

Swampthing500 wrote...

Let's see.

You had  the option to choose your character background, appearance, skills and class

You had dialogue options

You had options to resolve different quests

You had options to save or leave the Council to die.

You had options when levelling up.

You had options when equipping armour and weapons.

No no no.  They mean the specific options they want; your entire list is immediately dismissed.  What they don't realize is they have the option to choose not to play the game.

Gameplay choices, read idiots.

There are a few stealthy bits, Samara loyalty is totally different, You can use purely weapons or purely powers or a mix.

No there is no stealthy super sneaky gameplay per se, but is that really what you want? Kasumi, Thane, and Samara were plenty enough to break up some monotany for me

[Biotic Sage]

laecraft wrote...

Biotic Sage wrote...

Kaiser Shepard wrote...

Mass Effect's acclaim is far from universal as well; one only need to take a look at these very boards to realise that.

So...for something to have "universal acclaim," for you that means a Borg-like consensus where there is not even one dissenting opinion?  Not even a 1% that disagrees?  These boards don't even represent 1% of the people who have played Mass Effect, and of them not even 50% agree with you.  Are you really so deluded to think your miniscule dissenting opinion is an affront to the universal acclaim of the Mass Effect series?

If you're right, it doesn't matter how many people disagree with you. The truth, not numbers, is what matters.

Just look at Shepard. The absolute majority of the galaxy doesn't believe that the Reapers exist. Shepard's the only one who knows the whole truth. Does it make him any less right? Does that make them any less wrong? Is the fact that it's one's person opinion against the trillions' going to change the fact that the galaxy is going to be destroyed because the Reapers do exist, and they're coming?

Fantasy wish fulfilment, lack of solid villain motivations, lack of good story, black and white morality, and lack of C&C is the beginning of the downfall. Gaming has the potential to reach the level of novels in gaining insights about life, but if this route continues, the center will not hold, the masses will yield to decadence, and entropy will win another patch of ground from humanity.

Since people have subjectively decided what good storytelling is, numbers do matter.  Though like I said before, the elite still need to praise it too, and the video game elite have.  Even college courses in narrative theory are teaching Mass Effect, so the literary elite are even recognizing it as well.

So are you comparing the objective fact that the Reapers exist and are coming to the subjective idea of a "good videogame?"  Because that would be fallacious.

Modifié par Biotic Sage, 06 janvier 2012 - 03:21 .

[Plaguemaster]

RPG without any options? Neverwinter Nights 2. IMO the best example. And with great diversity of options! Such as
Do you want Gay Orc Pacifist Paladin that deals no damage and cannot wear any armor to join your party?
1. Yes.
2. Sure.
3. Of course.
4. Indeed
You were forced to do as game says in every corner. Act charitable as Chaotic Evil, lie and kill as Lawful Good. So what we got with Mass Effect is way betterthat it could be.

Modifié par Plaguemaster, 06 janvier 2012 - 04:00 .

[ODST 5723]

The flashback mission in CoD4 is what I think about when I picture variety.

Say what you will about CoD, but the MW series did present some interesting variety in how you could accomplish certain objectives. The SpecOps missions from MW2 were some of my favorites. They're the kinds of things that I wish Pinnacle Station could have been, but never really expected given the way ME plays vs. a FPS.

ME1 & ME2's gameplay wasn't suited for the types of things I'd like to have done on Kasumi's heist or the Arrival prison-break missions.

[Lotion Soronarr]

Biotic Sage wrote...

Kaiser Shepard wrote...

Mass Effect's acclaim is far from universal as well; one only need to take a look at these very boards to realise that.

So...for something to have "universal acclaim," for you that means a Borg-like consensus where there is not even one dissenting opinion?  Not even a 1% that disagrees?  These boards don't even represent 1% of the people who have played Mass Effect, and of them not even 50% agree with you.  Are you really so deluded to think your miniscule dissenting opinion is an affront to the universal acclaim of the Mass Effect series?

So...just wondering...where is this other 99% in which name you claim  to speak?

[Biotic Sage]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Biotic Sage wrote...

Kaiser Shepard wrote...

Mass Effect's acclaim is far from universal as well; one only need to take a look at these very boards to realise that.

So...for something to have "universal acclaim," for you that means a Borg-like consensus where there is not even one dissenting opinion?  Not even a 1% that disagrees?  These boards don't even represent 1% of the people who have played Mass Effect, and of them not even 50% agree with you.  Are you really so deluded to think your miniscule dissenting opinion is an affront to the universal acclaim of the Mass Effect series?

So...just wondering...where is this other 99% in which name you claim  to speak?

Lotion!  There you are.  Unfortunately I'm too tired for you right now and must go to bed.  If you look around I'm sure you will be able to find them quite easily.

[OmegaBlue0231]

All RPGs have no choice, because the choices are already predetermined by the company

[Arkitekt]

The worst offense is that Bioware forces us to be Shepard. What if I wanted to play Anderson instead?

I'll just cancel my preorder for the 7th time already. I can't stand this anymore!!

[didymos1120]

I've actually seen serious complaints that we couldn't join up with Saren in ME1.

[HiroVoid]

Mass Effect is ruined forever if Mass Effect 3 doesn't recognize my efforts at Pinnacle Station in ME1.

[Ticktank]

HiroVoid wrote...

Mass Effect is ruined forever if Mass Effect 3 doesn't recognize my efforts at Pinnacle Station in ME1.

You think thats bad? According to the spoilers, the ME1 gathering minerals quest accounts for 80% of galactic readiness.

[tetrisblock4x1]

I sense that a lot of people didn't read the OP fully. You know how games like Arkham City give you a minimum of three possible ways of dealing with enemies?

Can take them down quietly, use explosive gel, or disrupt the firearms of armed thugs so that batman can melee everyone into unconsciousness? And usually there are additional ways to approach the problem

That is the sort of variety the OP is talking about,

[AgitatedLemon]

tetrisblock4x1 wrote...

I sense that a lot of people didn't read the OP fully. You know how games like Arkham City give you a minimum of three possible ways of dealing with enemies?

Can take them down quietly, use explosive gel, or disrupt the firearms of armed thugs so that batman can melee everyone into unconsciousness? And usually there are additional ways to approach the problem

That is the sort of variety the OP is talking about,

You should try playing Call of Duty, or Halo.

You can--

Shoot them to death.
Melee kill them.
Throw grenades.

In Mass Effect, it's-

Shoot
Melee
Heavy Melee
Grenades
Heavy Weapons

Voila, gameplay choices.

[tetrisblock4x1]

But ME2 had no awesome button

[AlanC9]

tetrisblock4x1 wrote...

I sense that a lot of people didn't read the OP fully. You know how games like Arkham City give you a minimum of three possible ways of dealing with enemies?

Can take them down quietly, use explosive gel, or disrupt the firearms of armed thugs so that batman can melee everyone into unconsciousness? And usually there are additional ways to approach the problem

That is the sort of variety the OP is talking about,

Yeah, I figured that's what you meant. Only.... what of it?

Some RPGs have varied approaches to a situation, and some do not. Bio's games have pretty much always had you use minor variations on a standard combat approach to beat the game.

It's perfectly OK to dislike this design approach, of course. But there's no real difference between ME2 and, say, KotOR here.

Modifié par AlanC9, 06 janvier 2012 - 06:09 .

[Il Divo]

AlanC9 wrote...

Yeah, I figured that's what you meant. Only.... what of it?

Some RPGs have varied approaches to a situation, and some do not. Bio's games have pretty much always had you use minor variations on a standard combat approach to beat the game.

It's perfectly OK to dislike this design approach, of course. But there's no real difference between ME2 and, says, KotOR here.

Even there it depends on how broadly we are defining our options. To use the Batman example, he's saying disabling firearms first can be considered a different strategy than using explosive gel. But couldn't we say the same of Mass Effect, with the ability to choose between disabling with biotics, then killing our enemies, versus using heavy weapons?  

[AlanC9]

Or using AI Hacking and ducking behind a corner. Etc. Yeah. I'm guessing that what the OP wants are approaches that are... discontinuous? You don't mix-and-match in the middle of a battle.

[Praetor Knight]

Il Divo wrote...

Even there it depends on how broadly we are defining our options. To use the Batman example, he's saying disabling firearms first can be considered a different strategy than using explosive gel. But couldn't we say the same of Mass Effect, with the ability to choose between disabling with biotics, then killing our enemies, versus using heavy weapons?  

AlanC9 wrote...

Or using AI Hacking and ducking behind a corner. Etc. Yeah. I'm guessing that what the OP wants are approaches that are... discontinuous? You don't mix-and-match in the middle of a battle.

That's sufficient variety for me.

Modifié par Praetor Shepard, 06 janvier 2012 - 06:09 .

[Candidate 88766]

tetrisblock4x1 wrote...

But ME2 had no awesome button

The vanguard charge button.

[Il Divo]

I'm thinking almost like a Deus Ex-esque kind of variety then, if the OP is referring to the Predator vs. Combat segments of Arkham City. You can go straight combat, entirely stealthy, hacking, etc.

And with that, it's hard to say on whether it's worth it for Bioware to go with that approach. KotOr allowed a bit of that with the Stealth + Security skills. But even then, like Alan said, most encounters did devolve back into turn-based battles. And in ME's case, we don't even have that much (assuming we ignore the small sections of Arrival).

Modifié par Il Divo, 06 janvier 2012 - 06:10 .