60 réponses à ce sujet

[clopin]

Eviscerator makes life better.

Only real tips for Insanity Vanguard are to learn when to charge, as I have had way to many moments where I'm thinking "I can charge tha-" and then promptly die; learn to use Slam Warp bombs, it makes a great 1 point wonder until you max all your ammo powers out; and lastly is Squad Cryo on your team, Inferno on yourself.

[mcsupersport]

clopin wrote...

Eviscerator makes life better.

Only real tips for Insanity Vanguard are to learn when to charge, as I have had way to many moments where I'm thinking "I can charge tha-" and then promptly die; learn to use Slam Warp bombs, it makes a great 1 point wonder until you max all your ammo powers out; and lastly is Squad Cryo on your team, Inferno on yourself.

For me it is usually something along the line of "OH SH---, I didn't know you had reinforcements right ther.....reload!"

Learning when to charge makes a huge difference, but then so does hard shields, it amazes me how much difference one upgrade makes in the gameplay and what you can get away with.

[HolyAvenger]

Died a few times on the Collector ship, but man I forgot how much love I had for the Claymore. I'm not sure why the devs thought one of the most difficult fights in the game (imo) should come immediately after you get a new weapon with its own difficult learning curve but there you go. Brought Tali along on this mission for the first time, her drone is actually quite handy. Praetorian distractor supreme.

[capn233]

I basically agree. The platform battle when I was first doing Vanguard completely turned me off to the Claymore. I went back and took Sniper Rifles... Didn't ever even pick up the Claymore again until very recently at the behest of the people on here.

It's a fun weapon, and I am glad I did a playthrough with it finally.

[twisty77]

I'm actually playing my first playthrough of Vanguard and I ramped it up to Insanity just for the hell of it. I just finished Mordin's recruitment and I think I died 4 or 5 times during the mission (mostly due to stupid charges and "WTF where did that Krogan come from!?!?") It is definitely a challenge. I'm not looking forward to Garrus, though haha. Damn pyros...

[HolyAvenger]

Don't charge pyros (unless you've already stripped their protections).

Just played Miranda's LM. Not sure how I stayed alive at some points, but Claymore duel with Enyala was fun.

[goofyomnivore]

You can charge them and during the time dilation shoot the tank. Then they try to shoot you, but it doesn't burn you enough to stagger you and they blow up from using their weapon.

Shoot->run 6 feet in one direction->pyro shoots maybe a third of your shield out->pyro blows up

[ryoldschool]

Don't remind me about that SOB Vorcha on the Garrus Mission.  I tried to charge him on one of my vanguard runs.

[goofyomnivore]

yeah i hate that pyro. i bet he has killed me more than any other encounter. mass effect 2's defias pillager lol

[HolyAvenger]

You missed him with a charge twice. That's like asking him to kill you

[Locutus_of_BORG]

Yeah, read the old strat threads and watch some of those old vids. There were some real masters like Kronner and Boz on this board back then. Some of the newer guys have gotten pretty good too, like Ryold or Mi-Chan and their crowd.

From there it's really about practice to get familiar with the gameplay. Insanity is... not actually very hard. The rhythm of the gameplay is just a bit different.



EDIT: Yeah, that particular flamer vorcha can be hard, so you've gotta be prepared for that part. Generally, you have a split second to break his armor/overload, but you can try to draw him out of the blind spot by peeking/ducking, or by sending a Drone/squaddie/a few grenades that way. On the other hand, he doesn't always spawn in that blind corner, so you can luck out too.

Modifié par Locutus_of_BORG, 13 janvier 2012 - 06:04 .

[ryoldschool]

HolyAvenger wrote...

You missed him with a charge twice. That's like asking him to kill you

Yeah, the controller got a free ride after that.  The target changed to the guys behind him right when I hit the charge button.   I am alway careful right there ( you notice that I waited until after he had finished firing the pyro to move out from behind that column ) but it was still a disaster.

[ScroguBlitzen]

HolyAvenger wrote...

Don't charge pyros (unless you've already stripped their protections).

Heresy.  ALWAYS charge pyros!

[Locutus_of_BORG]

ScroguBlitzen wrote...

HolyAvenger wrote...

Don't charge pyros (unless you've already stripped their protections).

Heresy.  ALWAYS charge pyros!

Yeah, what's wrong with charging pyros?

What else are they good for?

Modifié par Locutus_of_BORG, 13 janvier 2012 - 06:45 .

[goofyomnivore]

There were some real masters like Kronner and Boz on this board back then

Because of Boz every time I see Adept gameplay I hear Allegiance and What Have You Done in my head. His videos were always class, memorable and most importantly fun to watch.

ScroguBlitzen, Kronner and Huckabein also had really fun videos to watch.

[ScroguBlitzen]

Boz is awesome. Makes me want to play adept, but there's just not enough buttons on 360 to do it without pausing. Hopefully they will let us bind all of the d-pad directions to our own skills if we want in ME3.

In case any devs reading this: also give us back crouch, and option to remove the hated aim assist.

[Locutus_of_BORG]

ScroguBlitzen, my bad, I left you out. There's at least one other who's also on.. caolla or ryold was it? Props to you guys and anyone else doing PC-level play on console.

[Graunt]

None of those videos show the annoyingly awful charge bug where you "can't get a lock" with targets that are directly in front of you with no obstacles.  The first time it happens is in the Cerberus medical facility and the next, most easily recreatable spot is when two Blue Sons shotgunners are walking towards you from behind a door that just opened soon after you crossed the bridge on Zaeed's loyalty mission.  It happens at least 20% of the time, if not more throughout the game.

Then you have the randomy and utterly fail geometry issues that cause you to get stuck on top of pillars or boxes with no way down other than death or resetting.  This can happen to all classes occasionally, but it happens to the Vanguard more than any other.  It's completely rage inducing too because you die so much from this and it's not player error, it's terrible coding.

Slam is also a pretty crappy power for a Vanguard compared to Reave.  Who cares if it shatters frozen enemies?  That first requires that you have squad Cryo maxed out and it also eats a cooldown; charge shatters frozen enemies as well.  Reave also keeps frozen (aka unshielded enemies) stunned as well and also removes barriers and armor, and is immensely good for any husk mission.

Slam might be "ok" in the earliest levels, but after you max out Charge/Champion/Inferno/Squad Cryo you should dump it asap.

Modifié par Graunt, 14 janvier 2012 - 04:59 .

[Kronner]

Graunt wrote...

Slam might be "ok" in the earliest levels, but after you max out Charge/Champion/Inferno/Squad Cryo you should dump it asap.

Strongly disagree. Slam-Bombs are super quick mid-long range attacks.
Example here: 
 about 20s in. This is lvl30 NG+ Insanity with very few upgrades. It gets stronger as you go through the game.

E.g. Defend the Hatch


or Suicide Mission
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JEjv6V-VfUs 


As for the Charge bug, in my experience, it very, very rarely happens*. I certainly had many playthrough without a Charge bug.

*assuming normal play. Using FRAPS increases the odds of that bug happening. And pressing the Charge button too rapidly does it as well.

Modifié par Kronner, 14 janvier 2012 - 05:25 .

[Graunt]

Kronner wrote...

As for the Charge bug, in my experience, it very, very rarely happens*. I certainly had many playthrough without a Charge bug.

*assuming normal play. Using FRAPS increases the odds of that bug happening. And pressing the Charge button too rapidly does it as well.

Bolded what is constantly said, yet in my experience it happens a a hell of a lot of times.  I do press the charge button rapidly...because you can't just casually wait until you have 1 health left when under fire, yet can repeat the bug while under less stressful scenarios by just hitting charge once.

The first video is loading like crap too, pausing every 5s for 20s or so, so I'll watch it later.  Watched the third, and it's no different than AverageGatsby trying to act like throw is super useful by doing Pull+Throw combos on that same mission; you know, an area that heavily favors it...unlike the majority of the game.

Slam on the Shadow Broker ship is pretty redundant too since Singularity sends them off into space too, albeit not as fast.  If you want to respec for every level that you know Slam is more useful than Reave then ok, but in general it's nowhere near as good.  The Shadow Broker outside fighting is very reminiscent of the attack on the Citadel, where Biotics were...actually somewhat useful compared to an all Immunity team.

Modifié par Graunt, 14 janvier 2012 - 07:05 .

[ryoldschool]

@Gaunt, Kronner

We had this discussion a year or so ago. If you look at the videos kronner posts with slam he gets great use of warp bombs with it - that is the major advantage, he does not have to invest in shockwave to get pull for bombs. I play xbox and the pause-free play is, imo, not that viable to warp bomb with slam -controls are a problem. I tried a playthrough with each slam, reave, and stasis. I don't remember a single warp bomb I was able to pull off with slam.

Although there is no doubt that slam works for some people, it just does not work well for me. I almost always use stasis on my Claymore vanguard, and only use it once in a while. I use reave on my cyroguard version. You have to find out what works for you.


As far as the charge bugs - as was pointed out a bunch of times it has more bugs that the other major powers ( Arush, Assault Armor, Singularity, cloak, drone ), and that is probably because of the more difficult to implement nature of charge.

There are targeting issues with singularity ( it gets stuck on a crate two inches from you instead of on top of the guy who you thought was targeted ), and drone ( drone gets cast next to you instead at intended target ). But with Charge you can charge somebody you did not intend ( target changed at last moment ), you are too close or docked into some cover and "can't get lock" will happen or the charge will register without you moving or getting a shield refresh, also there might be a problem of "landing you" where you charged - charging a guy that is jumping over cover, or right behind cover - these can end up with at times freak locations ( on top of a crate, behind the enemy facing the wrong way ).

We know charge can bug out sometimes, but I still play vanguard as much as any other class.

[CoffeeHolic93]

Graunt wrote...

Bolded what is constantly said, yet in my experience it happens a a hell of a lot of times.  I do press the charge button rapidly...because you can't just casually wait until you have 1 health left when under fire, yet can repeat the bug while under less stressful scenarios by just hitting charge once.

The first video is loading like crap too, pausing every 5s for 20s or so, so I'll watch it later.  Watched the third, and it's no different than AverageGatsby trying to act like throw is super useful by doing Pull+Throw combos on that same mission; you know, an area that heavily favors it...unlike the majority of the game.

Slam on the Shadow Broker ship is pretty redundant too since Singularity sends them off into space too, albeit not as fast.  If you want to respec for every level that you know Slam is more useful than Reave then ok, but in general it's nowhere near as good.  The Shadow Broker outside fighting is very reminiscent of the attack on the Citadel, where Biotics were...actually somewhat useful compared to an all Immunity team.

Since we're all quite opinionated about this, let's list a few pros and cons for each power, shall we? 

Slam

Pros:

Works as well with 1 point invested in it as it does with 4 points - an instant warp bomb, right where you want it to be. This frees up points for other stuff like Squad Cryo Ammo, and...Dare I say it...Shockwave. 

Can be upgraded to Crippling slam which can put a backrow enemy (like a heavy) out of the fight for a prolonged amount of time if you feel that charging is too risky.

Heavy slam shatters frozen enemies quite easily (~80% of their health in my experience)

A 3 SECOND BASE COOLDOWN. When upgraded by your passive and the cooldown reduction it becomes a 1.95 second cooldown. This. Is. Insane. 

Cons:

For the warp-bomb you need to pick a squadmate that has warp. Two if you're on a mission with barriers and you want it to be instant (Squadmates with Area Overlord, and Mordin for bloodpack missions) thus forcing you to stick with a one-trick-pony squad for maximum effectiveness which I find to be quite dull.

Doesn't work on shielded enemies (look at aforementioned post)

If the enemy is in their freezing animations (IE not fully frozen) the power WILL glitch out and cease to work.

It's not really as effective as charging in most cases - the enemy really has to be in a rather large group for it to be worth it.

Pull-field - while this power has travel time it has an area of effect that  Slam doesn't.



Reave

Pros:

Effective against Barriers, Armor and health.

Can let you get away with crazy stuff as it refills your health. Here's some proof.

It can stun enemies for a while, and it damages them while doing so. Not only that, but the animation leaves them open to enemy fire.

Doesn't need specific squadmates to be effective. You can use it to strip defenses, or when the defenses are stripped. Either way it's effective.

Cons:

Sorely lacking against shields. This can be alleviated with a squadmate with Area Overload, but then there's the issue of using the same squadmates constantly.

Against enemies with regenerating health, a warp-bomb would be more effective as it would stop their health regen. Reave doesn't.

It has a long and prohibitive cooldown that prevents you from charging, and you have to wait for the cooldown to finish. 

It has to be fully upgraded to be effective, where slam can be a one-point wonder if need be.


Based on this I prefer slam as it's quick, light crowd control without any need for investment. And after I use it, I only have to wait 2 seconds to play around with another power. 

[Locutus_of_BORG]

Also to add about charge bugs... there are a few playstyle tips out there to help reduce the probability of your charge getting fizzled.

A few:
1. Make sure your target is actually reachable on foot. Charge is not meant to let you reach places you couldn't normally reach in the environment.
2. Try to leave cover before charging
3. Try to avoid charging at things at different elevations from you
4. For console'ers, aim-assist is a real thing, and it'll mess you up sometimes. But that's aim-assist, not charge.

Modifié par Locutus_of_BORG, 14 janvier 2012 - 09:44 .

[Graunt]

Locutus_of_BORG wrote...

Also to add about charge bugs... there are a few playstyle tips out there to help reduce the probability of your charge getting fizzled.

A few:
1. Make sure your target is actually reachable on foot. Charge is not meant to let you reach places you couldn't normally reach in the environment.
2. Try to leave cover before charging
3. Try to avoid charging at things at different elevations from you
4. For console'ers, aim-assist is a real thing, and it'll mess you up sometimes. But that's aim-assist, not charge.

All of what you listed is helpful advice, but it's not necessary for the charge bug.  The bug is simply that charge just does not work and claims that it can't get a lock when the 1-4 requirements are already met.  It's as though there's a crack on the floor preventing you from charging something directly in front of you on a FLAT plane with nothing in the way and you're not behind cover or anything.  Happens all of the time.

As far as Reave vs Slam, I'm not going to continue to argue about it.  Slam isn't worthless, and has it's uses, especially if you build a squad that revolves around it--and for one point only it *is* better than Reave--but in general Reave has more applications, but you won't be using it as much until the late 20's.  You can still use it earlier for stripping, but it's not nearly as effective until you have 10 points dumped into it.  Or you could simply hold off on squad Cryo (since you could just be using someone with another squad ammo) and start filling out Reave at level 18+

Modifié par Graunt, 14 janvier 2012 - 09:55 .

[Kronner]

Graunt wrote...

All of what you listed is helpful advice, but it's not necessary for the charge bug.  The bug is simply that charge just does not work and claims that it can't get a lock when the 1-4 requirements are already met.  It's as though there's a crack on the floor preventing you from charging something directly in front of you on a FLAT plane with nothing in the way and you're not behind cover or anything.  Happens all of the time.

Try lowering your details. In my experience, when the workload required by the game becomes too much for the computer, bugs are bound to happen (this happened to me when I was recording with FRAPS). Even if you have powerful computer, there could be a driver issue or something. Try lowest settings and see if it gets better.