55 réponses à ce sujet

[Augustei]

Just wondering if anyone here would like to try and predict what they think Fereldens actions and political stances will be on the goings on of thedas in the future? Such as the Mage-Templar war but perhaps more importantly The Orlesian Civil War.

Alistair has already indicated he supports the Mages in Dragon Age 2.. Plus with the title his mother holds if he were to discover who she is that may be further encouragement to support the mage cause.. However what of Anora? What do you think she would do and what of the landsmeet? will they support their monarch or feel they should support the Templars and condemn the mages. Maybe lend their millitary aid to the Templars? or support the mages and lend their millitary aid to them?

What about Orlais? Do you think Ferelden will cease this oppotunity and maybe make an Alliance with Nevarra and invade? Do you think they will just stay out of it? Or do you think they will lend their support to one of the two cantidates trying to obtain / maintain control of the Orlesian Throne (Celene or Grand Duke cant remember his name)

Alistair is persuing Allys among the Free Marches city states in DA2, what would this mean for Ferelden-Nevarran Relations do you think? Do you feel they will be future enemies and Ferelden will persue an alliance with Orlais as a result or maybe the City states of the Free Marches will support each other enough to pose a viable threat to Nevarra ?

What are your thoughts on all or some of these things?

[IanPolaris]

I still see a somewhat "Church of England" situation, except I suspect that King Alistair (or Queen Anora) would back the current Divine but the Chantry itself may well elect a hardliner (so we have a pope/anti-pope situation similiar to what occured in RCC history). Of course a theological "clarification" (giving mages far more human rights) would be Fereldan's price.

-Polaris

[Knight of Dane]

Nevarra was once a Free Marches City state, they just outgrown the others and got independence, i don't think they are hostile towards the other city states.

But i haven't read Asunder, so I'm not sure.

[Augustei]

IanPolaris wrote...
I still see a somewhat "Church of England" situation, except I suspect
that King Alistair (or Queen Anora) would back the current Divine but
the Chantry itself may well elect a hardliner (so we have a
pope/anti-pope situation similiar to what occured in RCC history). Of
course a theological "clarification" (giving mages far more human
rights) would be Fereldan's price.

-Polaris

Church of England situation would be cool, however the monarch would still need the support of the majority of Fereldens nobles, inevitably there will be some who oppose such a move (such as the Orlesian nobles that Maric let keep their titles after the rebellion, seeing as how weakening the chantry would weaken an empire they were once and possibly still may be loyal to or have in their interests that it remain strong) and those who just support the chantry, theres probably a few nobles who do.. Will be interesting to see how that turns out though

Knight of Dane wrote...

Nevarra was once a Free Marches City state, they just outgrown the others and got independence, i don't think they are hostile towards the other city states.

But i haven't read Asunder, so I'm not sure.

They tried to conquer them but were stopped by Tantervale, was in the codex about the previous champion of there from rivain, Nevarra wants to conquer them so its possible that Ferelden allying with the Free Marches would cause hostilities between Nevarra and Ferelden... Especially if they tried to unite The Free Marches like Maric was going to (according to one of the item pack 2 codexs.. cant remember which item codex but one of the ones from item pack 2)

[Knight of Dane]

Fair enough, i just never got the idea that there were any tensions, but perhaps it's simply just a want to expand and not a hate for the Free Marches that makes Nevarra invade?

[Heimdall]

Frankly I find the Church of England idea unlikely. Considering that the Divine herself has already expressed views in favor of mage rights, breaking away from her chantry serves little purpose. A chantry split is already in the works between the Divine and the hardliner Templars. The nations of Andrastrian Thedas will likely be left to choose sides between the two. Declaring himself head of a Ferelden Chantry would serve solely as a power grab against the side that sympathizes with mages, which really doesn't seem like Alistair's style, Anora's maybe.

As for what Ferelden is likely to do, I would guess that a pro mage-position will leave whatever kingdoms take the Templar's side ill disposed towards Ferelden. Ferelden will be left to either ally with similarly sympathetic nations or change it's tune. Knowing Alistair would probably choose the former, I'd prepare for war.

[Augustei]

I hope they take a stance in the Orlesian Civil war and decide to help Celene and start persuing an Orlesian alliance =D that would be a cool arc in story. Celene is cautious in not following in Emperor Florians footsteps in their actions resulting in Orlais fighting wars on / in both borders. so not wanting to persue Ferelden hostilities.. Plus she has made attempts at peace already. Haven't read Asunder yet so dont know much about the Grand Duke but he's possibly one of the Orlesian nobles wanting to take Ferelden back.

[Maria13]

Anyone notice that the last we hear of Celene puts her mighty near the Fereldan border? An asylum application to Alistair/Anora in the works?

[Morroian]

Why would Ferelden ally with Nevarra?

As for what they'll do I would think they would take the civil war in Orlais as a chance to get sdome breathing space and build up their forces, maybe try and take in as many mages as possible. 

Modifié par Morroian, 08 janvier 2012 - 10:13 .

[TheJediSaint]

Well, the way I see it, both a King Alistair and/or a Queen Anora would try to keep Ferelden from getting involved any foreign wars. Ferelden is still recovering from the Fifth Blight, after all. It's likely they would need some convincing before taking sides. Convincing from, say...a player character.

[HiroVoid]

TheJediSaint wrote...Convincing from, say...a player character.

........

[nightscrawl]

XxDeonxX wrote...

Just wondering if anyone here would like to try and predict what they think Fereldens actions and political stances will be on the goings on of thedas in the future? Such as the Mage-Templar war but perhaps more importantly The Orlesian Civil War.

Alistair has already indicated he supports the Mages in Dragon Age 2.. Plus with the title his mother holds if he were to discover who she is that may be further encouragement to support the mage cause.. However what of Anora? What do you think she would do and what of the landsmeet? will they support their monarch or feel they should support the Templars and condemn the mages. Maybe lend their millitary aid to the Templars? or support the mages and lend their millitary aid to them?

What about Orlais? Do you think Ferelden will cease this oppotunity and maybe make an Alliance with Nevarra and invade? Do you think they will just stay out of it? Or do you think they will lend their support to one of the two cantidates trying to obtain / maintain control of the Orlesian Throne (Celene or Grand Duke cant remember his name)

Alistair is persuing Allys among the Free Marches city states in DA2, what would this mean for Ferelden-Nevarran Relations do you think? Do you feel they will be future enemies and Ferelden will persue an alliance with Orlais as a result or maybe the City states of the Free Marches will support each other enough to pose a viable threat to Nevarra ?

What are your thoughts on all or some of these things?

Oooh my, I had been giving this a fair bit of thought myself, especially since it's never directly mentioned who is ruling Ferelden in Asunder.

Uh... where did all of these references to Nevarra come from? Or is it only being mentioned because of it's geographical location between Orlais and the Free Marches?

I'm just going to assume that Alistair is king for the majority of my post.

As I see it, no matter who the ruler is, with regards to the Orlesian civil war, Ferelden has two options: 1) they can either sit back and watch while Orlais tears itself apart from within as Ferelden almost did 10 years prior, OR 2) they can choose to throw their lot in with whomever they deem the most beneficial to their own cause, which I would assume would be Empress Celene, since Cailan had made, and Alistair continues to make overtures to her.

There is also a terrible third choice, one which shouldn't even be considered because I doubt Ferelden is up to the task: strike while Orlais is vulnerable. This is dependent on timing though. If they try too early, the warring factions within Orlais might be able to put aside their differences long enough to drive out the invading army. If Ferelden is smart, they can catch them unawares, preoccupied, and completely exposed.

With the first choice, the main issue is that Ferelden would have no control over the outcome and could only hope that whoever comes out ahead either doesn't care about "getting their lost province back" as Alistair says in DA2, or is cooperative enough to negotiate so there is no attempt to conquer after Orlais finishes rebuilding.

With the second choice, the main issue is that there will be Fereldens, common folk and nobility alike, who think just as Loghain did: they want nothing to do with Orlais, they despise Orlesians and have lingering memories of what the occupation did to them, their families, their Queen and their country, and who I'm sure secretly resent that Alistair even attempts to deal at all with the Celene. There would no doubt be heavy resistance to the idea of going in there to help Celene, as nobles might refuse to send armies to aid a country from which they got their lands back a mere few decades ago.

The most logical choice is to aid Celene. It can be negotiated before or after any benefits Ferelden might receive for the aid. It would be difficult for Alistair to promote it to the Banns however. The most convenient choice is to wait and watch.


As a former templar, that issue is certainly one that Alistair understands. As far as his mother is concerned, that is tricky. As a disclaimer, it must be pointed out that it's not been confirmed that Fiona is indisputably Alistair's mother, however strongly it's implied. That said, there is no proof that we know of that she could give that she is his mother, and the only other person who was in fact there is now dead: Duncan. We also don't know how much exactly Arl Eamon and Bann Teagan know about Alistair's mother. Did they help Maric in the lie, or did Maric conceal the truth from everyone? We don't even know if Loghain knew the whole truth, and what if anything he might have told Annora once everyone became aware that Eamon was going to put forth Alistair's claim to the throne. Also, I highly doubt Fiona would try to use the connection, from the way The Calling ended, unless she were extremely desperate. Even then I would suspect she might even try to go the the Wardens for help rather than her son.

As far as to what Alistair would do, I'm not really sure. He's not one to aid the templars in their hunt, but neither does he wish to draw their wrath on Ferelden. He will also have the chantry within Ferelden to deal with. It might be too much of a risk to stick his neck out for the mages, so he might do nothing.

This is where it gets complicated in terms of gameplay, player experience and choices, and how those affect the series going forward. Many people, myself included, who have mage Wardens and mage Hawkes will be wondering what these characters are going to do -- despite their supposed disappearance. These characters, particularly the Warden as the Hero of Ferelden have a lot of influence not only because of their reputations, but because Alistiar knows and respects them (Hawke vaguely, Warden various dependent on player choice). Their influence may or may not affect his decision to act.

I don't really know what he should do as far as this is concerned, even if I channel my mage Warden who used her boon to free Ferelden's circle. Should he actively fight on the side of the mages? Should he do nothing, allowing templars and seekers to roam his lands hunting rebellious mages? Should he kick out the templars? Should he just let it be quietly known that Ferelden is a safe haven for mages but not actively do anything? I don't really see the common folk being pleased with any of those scenarios to be honest. Alistair has to weigh what he believes is right, what he was educated in the chantry, and what is best for his kingdom as a whole before deciding how to act.

Modifié par nightscrawl, 09 janvier 2012 - 03:45 .

[nightscrawl]

Maria13 wrote...

Anyone notice that the last we hear of Celene puts her mighty near the Fereldan border?

Yep, I did indeed notice .

HiroVoid wrote...

TheJediSaint wrote...Convincing from, say...a player character.

........

I'm afraid I don't understand this reaction. Are you sad that he might need convincing, or that it might come from a PC (the protagonist of DA3?), as opposed to your Warden or Hawke?

Modifié par nightscrawl, 09 janvier 2012 - 03:54 .

[Augustei]

nightscrawl wrote...
I'm just going to assume that Alistair is king for the majority of my post.

A Safe assumption, since he seems to be in Biowares canons of him so far (Awakening, Main DA2 pre-built history, Comic)

nightscrawl wrote...
There is also a terrible third choice, one which shouldn't even be considered because I doubt Ferelden is up to the task:
strike while Orlais is vulnerable. This is dependent on timing though.
If they try too early, the warring factions within Orlais might be able
to put aside their differences long enough to drive out the invading
army. If Ferelden is smart, they can catch them unawares, preoccupied,
and completely exposed.

This is where my mentions of Nevarra come in , Ferelden can find an ally in them since Nevarra is a country eager to expand its borders (as seen by them invading and conquering Orlesian territory the hills of Perendale in 8:99 blessed and as a result tensions being between the two nations because of this conflict, and when they tried and failed to conquer Free Marches territory resulting in them being repelled by Tantervale) Ferelden could form an alliance with Nevarra in their mutual interest in reducing Orlesian power and influence. Both have also been occupied by Orlais as well.
Perhaps.. even though this is a big stretch, Ferelden could increase its strength by promising to help the dalish retake the dales in exchange for military support.

nightscrawl wrote...

The most logical choice is to aid Celene. It can be negotiated before or
after any benefits Ferelden might receive for the aid. It would be
difficult for Alistair to promote it to the Banns however. The most
convenient choice is to wait and watch.

He should get support from some of the banns however, but probably not enough to make a difference, theres a few banns that are Orlesians that Maric allowed to keep their titles after the occupation so their support could be obtained pretty easily in comparison to the other nobles. The Couslands being extreme loyalists to the crown Fergus would probably give his support as well as well as Highevers Vassels Amaranthine, which is also possible due to the fact that The Warden isn't currently there to confuse things (since some peoples wardens might be against getting involved for whatever reasons)

Maria13 wrote...

Anyone notice that the last we hear of Celene puts her mighty near the Fereldan border?

No? Whats this? is this something that happens in Asunder or are you talking about the Chevaliers in Dragon Age: Origins under The Grey Wardens Command?

[nightscrawl]

XxDeonxX wrote...

This is where my mentions of Nevarra come in, Ferelden can find an ally in them since Nevarra is a country eager to expand its borders (as seen by them invading and conquering Orlesian territory the hills of Perendale in 8:99 blessed and as a result tensions being between the two nations because of this conflict, and when they tried and failed to conquer Free Marches territory resulting in them being repelled by Tantervale) Ferelden could form an alliance with Nevarra in their mutual interest in reducing Orlesian power and influence. Both have also been occupied by Orlais as well.

Perhaps.. even though this is a big stretch, Ferelden could increase its strength by promising to help the dalish retake the dales in exchange for military support.

Both of these are extremely interesting!

XxDeonxX wrote...

Maria13 wrote...

Anyone notice that the last we hear of Celene puts her mighty near the Fereldan border?

No? Whats this? is this something that happens in Asunder or are you talking about the Chevaliers in Dragon Age: Origins under The Grey Wardens Command?

Halamshiral is very near Ferelden. Not so near as Jader certainly, but the Imperial Highway shoots right past Orzammar into Ferelden proper. In fact, I'll go so far as to say that if Celene wanted to take refuge in Ferelden, going down to Redclliffe wouldn't be too difficult. Don't forget that Isolde is, or was, Orlesian, so Arl Eamon might not be unwilling to help the empress.

If this happened, I would find it extremely interesting and amusing, as it would put Celene in a similar position to Alistair's grandmother and father: running from an invading army, hoping for refuge from people you can only hope aren't only pretending to be your friends.

Modifié par nightscrawl, 09 janvier 2012 - 02:21 .

[Augustei]

So Celene and her Loyalists are currently in Halamshiral? I suddenly have a bad feeling if Alistair is on the throne a marriage to Celene will be pursued which will end badly =( Hope I'm wrong.

[Silfren]

XxDeonxX wrote...

Just wondering if anyone here would like to try and predict what they think Fereldens actions and political stances will be on the goings on of thedas in the future? Such as the Mage-Templar war but perhaps more importantly The Orlesian Civil War.

Alistair has already indicated he supports the Mages in Dragon Age 2.. Plus with the title his mother holds if he were to discover who she is that may be further encouragement to support the mage cause.. However what of Anora? What do you think she would do and what of the landsmeet? will they support their monarch or feel they should support the Templars and condemn the mages. Maybe lend their millitary aid to the Templars? or support the mages and lend their millitary aid to them?

What about Orlais? Do you think Ferelden will cease this oppotunity and maybe make an Alliance with Nevarra and invade? Do you think they will just stay out of it? Or do you think they will lend their support to one of the two cantidates trying to obtain / maintain control of the Orlesian Throne (Celene or Grand Duke cant remember his name)

Alistair is persuing Allys among the Free Marches city states in DA2, what would this mean for Ferelden-Nevarran Relations do you think? Do you feel they will be future enemies and Ferelden will persue an alliance with Orlais as a result or maybe the City states of the Free Marches will support each other enough to pose a viable threat to Nevarra ?

What are your thoughts on all or some of these things?

First off, be aware that it is by no means a giventhat Fiona is Alistair's mother.  There is as much evidence to refute that theory as there is to support it.  And even if it were true, Fiona would have no reason to just assume that Alistair was her son.  She couldn't prove that Maric hadn't had trysts with any other women, after all.  I don't think we should count on any revelations from this angle. 

No, I don't think that Ferelden will try to invade Orlais.  Alistair, certainly, doesn't strike me as the sort to wage war for conquest.  And for either Alistair or Anora, I think they're both going to be far more focused not only on the mage/templar conflict, but recovering from the Blight, to worry about invading any other country.  It would be a ridiculously stupid thing to do; Alistair lacks that kind of imperialistic ambition, and Anora's far more politically savvy than to take the risk.

I've got a feeling the next game will be set in Orlais and any mentions of Ferelden will be incidental background material, just as we saw with DA2.  Most likely, either monarch will be focused on maintaining Ferelden's stability, but just how is hard to say without any further information on what the political landscape will be when DA3 comes out.

[Silfren]

XxDeonxX wrote...

So Celene and her Loyalists are currently in Halamshiral? I suddenly have a bad feeling if Alistair is on the throne a marriage to Celene will be pursued which will end badly =( Hope I'm wrong.

No way.  There's no way this could be made to work as a tenable plotline, given that whether Alistair is the monarch of Ferelden depends on player choice in DA1.  It would have to be relegated to background information only in order to accomodate imports where Alistair wasn't made king, or even where he jointly rules with Anora.  But a marriage-alliance between Orlais and Ferelden is too dramatic in its implications to be given that kind of treatment.

[nightscrawl]

XxDeonxX wrote...

So Celene and her Loyalists are currently in Halamshiral? I suddenly have a bad feeling if Alistair is on the throne a marriage to Celene will be pursued which will end badly =( Hope I'm wrong.

There would be too much player rage, I highly doubt that they would do this. Actually, I think if we ever see Alistair again, it will be in a similar vein to his cameo in DA2, which was based on your import from DAO. As far as David Gaider's canon goes, we will have to wait until the comic is released next month to see whether he has Alistair as married or what, then we can speculate from that point onward.

[CrimsonZephyr]

I kind of want to see Celene and all of her closest confidantes brutally killed off, Red Wedding style, on the order of one of Alistair's advisors (let's make it the court mage), and then Ferelden using the political fallout to start seizing territory and demanding huge tributes from the battered and broken Orlesian Empire. Loghain would be proud.

Modifié par CrimsonZephyr, 09 janvier 2012 - 10:51 .

[Augustei]

Silfren wrote...
I've got a feeling the next game will be set in Orlais and any mentions
of Ferelden will be incidental background material, just as we saw with
DA2.

This got me scared they'd do a massive shock mention like TES: Oblivion did "BTW you hear morrowind got invaded and conquered by Argonians?"  =O

Silfren wrote...
No way.  There's no way this could be made to work as a tenable
plotline, given that whether Alistair is the monarch of Ferelden depends
on player choice in DA1.  It would have to be relegated to background
information only in order to accomodate imports where Alistair wasn't
made king, or even where he jointly rules with Anora.  But a
marriage-alliance between Orlais and Ferelden is too dramatic in its
implications to be given that kind of treatment.

There are a Male and Female on the Ferelden throne and both a male and female contending for the Orlesian one. if Anora was placed on throne she could secure political marriage with Grand Duke and if Alistair is on throne he could secure Marriage with Celene.. Dont know how they could work around if they both are on the throne however.. Maybe just Alistair and Celene... In any case though i hope your right

CrimsonZephyr wrote...

I kind of want to see Celene and
all of her closest confidantes brutally killed off, Red Wedding style,
on the order of one of Alistair's advisors (let's make it the court
mage), and then Ferelden using the political fallout to start seizing
territory and demanding huge tributes from the battered and broken
Orlesian Empire. Loghain would be proud.

That would be awesome =D btw while its been mentioned. RIP Robb Stark King of the North.. he was pretty awesome

[SkittlesKat96]

Well ideally I think Ferelden would try and avoid the conflict regardless of who is in charge because of how weakened it is after the fifth blight.

That said I think this conflict is obviously going to be hard to avoid, especially for a big nation like Ferelden that already has a bit of a tense relationship with Orlais.

Most of all though I think Ferelden will try hard to keep peace with the cities of the Free Marches, and maybe Ferelden and some of the cities in the Free Marches will seek out an alliance or something.

[nightscrawl]

XxDeonxX wrote...

There are a Male and Female on the Ferelden throne and both a male and female contending for the Orlesian one. if Anora was placed on throne she could secure political marriage with Grand Duke and if Alistair is on throne he could secure Marriage with Celene.. Dont know how they could work around if they both are on the throne however.. Maybe just Alistair and Celene... In any case though i hope your right.

Asunder does not specify who is the current ruler of Ferelden: Alistair alone, Alistair with Queen Anora, Alistair with Queen Warden, Anora alone. Also, to my knowledge, Empress Celene is not married, Asunder mentioning one of the rumors for her retreat to Halamshiral to spend some time with her "latest" lover; this in addition to the various other things mentioned about her marital status in DAO.

However, if Alistair is not married, I have no doubt that Celene would try to catch herself another Therin-born Ferelden king if she thought it expedient.

Again though, unless DG writes another book using his own canon, I doubt they will put it in the game. The options are too variable. Unless it can be based around your imports and is only relegated to a background reference and doesn't really influence the plot at all.

Silfren wrote...

I've got a feeling the next game will be set in Orlais and any mentions of Ferelden will be incidental background material, just as we saw with DA2.

While I've also thought this for some time now, I hope it's not the case. With The Stolen Throne, Mark of the Assassin DLC, and now Asunder I've had just about enough of Orlais and Orlesians.

I saved Ferelden from the Blight dammit, it's my country and I want to stay there!

That said, I wouldn't be averse to going there as part of the overall DA3 plot, much in the same way that part of Neverwinter Nights took place in their rival city of Luskan.

Modifié par nightscrawl, 10 janvier 2012 - 02:35 .

[Selej]

Don't forget the option of a Cousland, who is also Teryn or Gwaren and is brother to the only other Teryn in Ferelden ala Highever, who could be married to the Queen and is the Hero of Ferelden and Warden Commander who the First Warden trusts. That's where the real power lies.

[WhiteKnyght]

I imagine more people would side with the mages than the Templars. Including Ferelden.

1. Alistair sympathizes with what mages have to endure. Not to mention a lot of nobles, mercenaries, etc harbor apostates to give their forces more kick. Autonomy for the Circle means they can get more even easier than before.

2. The Grey Wardens consider magic to be an invaluable asset when fighting with darkspawn. Hence why they have treaties with the Circle of Magi. Autonomy for the Circle and no more Templars would give them almost unrestricted access.(I heard somewhere that normally the Wardens are only allowed to have one or two mages in their ranks at a time)

3. Most families are probably tired of having their children taken away from them, never to be seen again. Very few mages do get to keep contact with their families. Even a powerful noble family like the De Launcets hadn't seen their son in twenty years. Like Cullen said, these days people slam their doors in the faces of Templars.

Chantry authority needs to go. Religions exist to save people, yet it seems like the Chantry is trying to control people and exterminate anyone who disagrees with them.

Modifié par The Grey Nayr, 10 janvier 2012 - 06:51 .