95 réponses à ce sujet

[xbeton0L]

Haha, we are that primitive because we still hold values of "good and evil". The fault lies within the taboo of being so unevolved, we're incapable of realizing a better alternative.

I believe it's the instinctual ideal of losing your own individuality, and your own free will. This I can agree should at least be an option made available towards a more advanced solution. I also think that if a human-Reaper were created, it would most likely counter the original ideas of Reaper indoctrination as perhaps the Original species from which the Reapers were created did not evolve such a thing as free will and individuality <- perhaps their evolution was solely attributed to symbiotic relationships, which I do think could possibly accelerate actual evolution of an organism. In such a relationship, individual preferences do not matter as much, as all focus would go towards the betterment of the group as a whole.

Which means whatever species created the Reapers (or from which they evolved) they may never have had a clear concept on actual individuality, of which humans and other species in ME do understand and want to preserve.

So, the argument lies beyond "good and evil"; and even still lies beyond "better or worse"; so now it is a matter of "instinctual preference" based on symbiotic versus independent life forms.

Like I mentioned before with the successful creation of a human-Reaper, it would most likely take a different stance on Reaper ideals as the nature of humans would consist of the acknowledgement of individuality, and such that it would be most beneficial as the potential for genetic instruction would become the most diverse. Again, just a thought! _

Edit: ^This is a very good point. Take notes Bioware.

Modifié par xbeton0L, 08 janvier 2012 - 11:15 .

[xbeton0L]

*snip*

Modifié par xbeton0L, 08 janvier 2012 - 11:15 .

[Homey C-Dawg]

xbeton0L wrote... a bunch of cool stuff

I'm impressed with your view that an intelligent alien species would probably not think like a human being...at all. I agree. People are so use to star trek/star wars aliens that we tend to think that any intelligent life would somehow be familier with the idea of morality, emotion, honor, fear, etc which they may not be.

The universe functions on pure logic, and I find it very believable that by the time a species reaches the point that reapers have there would be nothing but pure logic left in their thought processes, indicating that they don't actually love or hate anything since they are just trying to fullfill their own agenda, which seems to be the betterment of the universe as they see it (or the elimination of a threat, or the harvesting of a crop, whichever their true motivations end up being).

Edit: I'm not so sure about the human reaper acting differently though. Thus far I'm of the opinion that once a species is gooified and reaperized it loses it's sense of self and will and just becomes a reaper. I think they have their own "reaper" way of thinking regardless of what they are made out of. We might never know for sure unless theres a conversation about it in ME3.

Modifié par Homey C-Dawg, 08 janvier 2012 - 11:45 .

[AlexXIV]

xbeton0L wrote...

Haha, we are that primitive because we still hold values of "good and evil". The fault lies within the taboo of being so unevolved, we're incapable of realizing a better alternative.

I believe it's the instinctual ideal of losing your own individuality, and your own free will. This I can agree should at least be an option made available towards a more advanced solution. I also think that if a human-Reaper were created, it would most likely counter the original ideas of Reaper indoctrination as perhaps the Original species from which the Reapers were created did not evolve such a thing as free will and individuality <- perhaps their evolution was solely attributed to symbiotic relationships, which I do think could possibly accelerate actual evolution of an organism. In such a relationship, individual preferences do not matter as much, as all focus would go towards the betterment of the group as a whole.

Which means whatever species created the Reapers (or from which they evolved) they may never have had a clear concept on actual individuality, of which humans and other species in ME do understand and want to preserve.

So, the argument lies beyond "good and evil"; and even still lies beyond "better or worse"; so now it is a matter of "instinctual preference" based on symbiotic versus independent life forms.

Like I mentioned before with the successful creation of a human-Reaper, it would most likely take a different stance on Reaper ideals as the nature of humans would consist of the acknowledgement of individuality, and such that it would be most beneficial as the potential for genetic instruction would become the most diverse. Again, just a thought! _

Edit: ^This is a very good point. Take notes Bioware.

I have a theory that the Reaper were originally a hive mind species. Like the Rachni. Some people already hinted there is a suprise with the Rachni, so it could as well be this. That the Rachni are the same sort. I doubt it is exactly the same sort, but considering they chose them for indoctrination may be another hint on them being more prone to obey. I mean species with strong sense of independence are probably harder to indoctrinate and coordinate than a hive mind species.

Modifié par AlexXIV, 09 janvier 2012 - 01:26 .

[AlexXIV]

Luc0s wrote...

AlexXIV wrote...

I have a theory that the Reaper were originally a hive mind species. Like the Rachni. Some people already hinted there is a suprise with the Rachni, so it could as well be this. That the Rachni are the same sort. I doubt it is exactly the same sort, but considering they chose them for indoctrination may be another hint on them being more prone to obey. I mean species with strong sense of independence are probably harder to indoctrinate and coordinate than a hive mind species.

I have a theory that... no wait, I don't, I already know the Reaper's motivation and origin. I got spoiled by the leaked script.

Kinda takes away the suprise from the game, doesn't it?

[ncknck]

Dudes. I think you all got too much into philosophy.

Reapers are evil because they kill Asari/Humans.
Neutral Reapers would ignore our galaxy.
Good Reapers would help us.

It doesnt matter what their view point is. They are harmful from our viewpoint. And so must be dealt with.

[AlexXIV]

ncknck wrote...

Dudes. I think you all got too much into philosophy.

Reapers are evil because they kill Asari/Humans.
Neutral Reapers would ignore our galaxy.
Good Reapers would help us.

It doesnt matter what their view point is. They are harmful from our viewpoint. And so must be dealt with.

I am just gonna say ... we fight or die.

[OmegaBlue0231]

AlexXIV wrote...

ncknck wrote...

Dudes. I think you all got too much into philosophy.

Reapers are evil because they kill Asari/Humans.
Neutral Reapers would ignore our galaxy.
Good Reapers would help us.

It doesnt matter what their view point is. They are harmful from our viewpoint. And so must be dealt with.

I am just gonna say ... we fight or die.

Live free or die!

[rabidhanar]

AlexXIV wrote...
I am just gonna say ... we fight or die.

That's the plan!

[AlexXIV]

Luc0s wrote...

AlexXIV wrote...

Kinda takes away the suprise from the game, doesn't it?

Nah it doesn't. I've read the Lord of The Rings books before I watched the movies and still enjoyed the movies. I read the Harry Pottr books before I watched the movies and I still enjoyed the movies. Now I've read (parts of) the Mass Effect 3 script, but I'm still going to enjoy the game. Reading the script doesn't make a difference, I simply know stuff you guys don't know, which makes watching you guys speculating and theorizing about stuff I already know all the more fun.

There are not so many options actually. I mean guessing every tiny detail is probably unlikely. But they go to sleep for a long while, then come back and 'eat', reproduce and go back to sleep. Sounds like something I have seen on the discovery channel before.

[Homey C-Dawg]

ncknck wrote...

Dudes. I think you all got too much into philosophy.

Reapers are evil because they kill Asari/Humans.
Neutral Reapers would ignore our galaxy.
Good Reapers would help us.

It doesnt matter what their view point is. They are harmful from our viewpoint. And so must be dealt with.

tbh I think Vigil was wrong. Completely wrong. Overcoming a seemingly unstoppable foe is very dependant on understanding it. Otherwise your taking shots in the dark.

[AlexXIV]

I guess people shouldn't assume everyone is serious in threads like this. The title basically invites sarcasm and borderline trolling. Of course they are evil. As in they are going to kill everyone and everything that is imporant to you. So yeah, even if they were not evil it would still be considered self defense. Like this woman in the news who shot the guy who broke into her house. Was he evil? Probably not. Was it his own fault? I think so. So whatever the Reapers' purpose or plan, they are not going to sit with us at a table and discuss it.

Modifié par AlexXIV, 09 janvier 2012 - 02:18 .

[Ice Cold J]

IMO, ANYTHING that is trying to f*@&ing KILL me is NEVER "good."

End of story.

[AlexXIV]

Ice Cold J wrote...

IMO, ANYTHING that is trying to f*@&ing KILL me is NEVER "good."

End of story.

Well depends ... if you are evil, then ... you know ... the ones who are trying to kill you are probably the good guys. Are you a Reaper?

[Elasthor]

It's all a matter of perspective.

[chaosomegas]

reapers willl blow up good or not because no one tells humans what to do but our governments and will take that power away from them maybe voters lol

[xbeton0L]

I like what dude said about us being hypocrites, defending our "good" while at the same time gnashing into a meat burger made from a lesser animal.

Ah, the trivia of honor and treason. All power lies in conspiracy.

[Sturmwulfe]

xbetonOL, you totally added to what I was trying to say and did it much better than I did, so bravo. For all we know, good and evil may not even be a concept to some alien species. I think the yahg would also be a good example of that. I'm of the train of thought the reapers were originally a race that voluntarily did that to themselves trying to achieve the pinnacle of existence, and had existed so long without wiping themselves out and no longer resembled when they first achieved civilization. Maybe becoming reapers was the only way to avoid extinction. Perhaps one world of many across the entire galaxy decided to take that step, and forced it on the others. I think that would pretty much show how a fleet could get started, because I would imagine they'd have to have a decent amount of numbers to systematically purge an entire galaxy during each cycle. It would be ironic if there were a race that transcended into the reapers had achieved galaxy wide peace, or felt that by submitting themselves into a single entity they could achieve it.

So it's also possible they used to know the concept of individuality and freedom, but lost it over the countless millions of years they've been doing it. But the symbiotic organism theory has a lot of merit, although I wonder how advanced a species could become like that.

If you've ever read the Ender's Game theories the formics were a hive-mind insect race that was hyper intelligent and could communicate instantaneously with each other via a telepathic connection of sorts, although only the queens had intelligence and all the countless thousands of workers and soldiers were nothing more than hands and feet, eyes, ears, and so on. When they first came in contact with humanity, they killed the humans they encountered, since they figured all sentient life would be like them, and they were only doing the equivalent of trimming a human queen's nails to show that they claimed that area. I won't spoil how the books go or anything, that was already a fairly big spoiler (how they think), but one thing that was pointed out in the books I found fascinating is that the queens, though few in number, were incredibly intelligent and able to remember absolutely everything from their history from the point they became sentient due to a queen's memories being passed on to the next one via birth, and queens could communicate across the galaxy instantly with each other. However, they never deviate far from what they've always understood and how they've done things, so while they're capable of learning, they don't venture out and make ideas. The human mind to them is chaotic, and while a group of people could come up with a hundred ideas that could never work, all it takes is one to cause a huge advancement and push us forward. Perhaps the reapers were somewhat like the hive queens, in a way.

In any case, I have no intention of finding out what it's like to be a part of the reaper club, so I'm going to send them all to hell if I can.

[Sturmwulfe]

xbeton0L wrote...

I like what dude said about us being hypocrites, defending our "good" while at the same time gnashing into a meat burger made from a lesser animal.

Ah, the trivia of honor and treason. All power lies in conspiracy.

I am cow, hear me moo. Unlike our delicious bovine friends, I have a lot more survival instinct than domesticated cattle. It is, however, an excellent comparison. The galaxy's had 50,000 years to fatten up, now we're featured on the drive thru menu.

@AlexXIV, we're going to need a really big coffee table and a collossal tea pot. I have a feeling reapers like earl grey.

[xbeton0L]

@Sturmwulfe
You sir, are a genius. You brought out a very essential idea I hadn't yet thought of. And as evident, diversity does play an important role in human advancement <- such was a time when many of the world's newest technologies began to collaborate in the 1900s, technology had the most significant advancement. However to complement this phenomenon, such a dramatic change in the world created unique aspirations for scholars, scientists and thinkers/tinkerers which created an even deeper and unique diversity that could have only reached such inspirational levels at that particular time in human history.

On the other hand, humanity is suffering from a lack of diversity particularly in part from conformity via higher exposure to global trends. Meaning people,as a result of technology, are thinking more similarly than not, and are more inclined to settle with conclusions that suit the most common opinion, rather than form and speculate their own. However, this does not limit the amount of diversity, it only standardizes it, thus reducing actual chance for diversity to evolve.

Think of it in relation to domestication. In wild animals, instinctual behaviour has a broader spectrum of unpredictability and diversity than their domestic relatives. Through complacency and repetition, their natural tendencies to be diverse are then limited to a substandard.

*At work. Getting rushed. Please elaborate.

[Sturmwulfe]

It takes all sorts of people to build civilization, from laborers to scientists, from soldiers to diplomats, and any shade in between, it takes many people to drive us forward, but sometimes it only takes one with a brilliant idea to shape the entire machine. Ever notice how during war times we see our greatest ideas and technology spring forward? During times of peace, I don't think there's that drive to think outside the box, and certainly no urgency to do better than who would be your foes. We're a species that does best when we're under some kind of threat that unifies us, or at least groups of us.

I've always been of the opinion that the more convenient technology gets, the worse people tend to suffer for it. As you said, people start to follow similar trends and conform to popular ideas. Anything that makes life uncomfortable is usually ignored, or done away with, instead of learning to adapt to it like in harder times. In times like these, it's almost like people who dare buck the trend and speak out against the norms and the conventionally accepted ways of doing things are ostracized. As you said, it standardizes diversity and we grow stagnant. I almost think this applies to the reapers. They think they've reached the top and are so focused on maintaining their cycle, I think they're going to have a heck of a hard time adapting to things they haven't seen before, and don't fit their cookie cutter way of doing things. It also goes back to the whole arrogance thing, they're unlikely to try to do things differently even if it could mean guaranteeing their success. Like great civilizations, if you get too comfortable when the stakes are high you have a greater chance of falling.

You know, the whole domestication thing is a double edge sword. If the galaxy and organic life is cattle, then why is it acting like a wild animal, unpredictably and uncooperatively resisting the reapers, while the reapers have been doing the same thing for countless hundreds of thousands of years. If nothing's ever changed, except for this once, wouldn't that make them almost seem like they're "domesticated" and unable to sense the danger until it's too late?

[tetrisblock4x1]

Ew, no. Sounds like something Blizzard would do.