29 réponses à ce sujet

[BubbleDncr]

I finished reading Asunder last night, and my one gripe with it is that it kind of made me feel like DA2 didn't really matter. 

I mean, everyone kept mentioning "what that mage Anders did in Kirkwall," but here it was, a year later, and all the circles still hadn't rebelled. Things were just "more tense" than they otherwise would have been, though that could be argueable in itself, since everything in Kirkwall still probably would have eventually gotten out of control without Anders. Afterall, their Knight Commander was going insane and their First Enchanter was helping research blood magic. 

I guess after DA2 ended, I felt like all the circle towers would revolt when they heard the news, the mage templar war would begin, and Cassandra was looking for Hawke because she was there at the event that started it all - the annulment of the Kirkwall Circle. 

But instead, it seems like the Conclave in Asunder is what caused the mages to revolt and start the mage/templar war. So it seems more logical, to me, that if Cassandra were looking for someone who was there at a piviotal moment, she would look for Rhys. He clearly played a much larger role in the beginnings of the war than Hawke, who frankly, just had to stand by and react to everything going on around her. 

Anyone else get similar feelings, or am I misinterpretting things?

[BubbleDncr]

 Even tho I looked for threads on Asunder for 10 minutes before posting this, I somehow completely missed the discussion thread about Asunder. I will move my post there so this thread can be closed, since its kind of redudant. 

[Knight of Dane]

I felt like Hawke didn't matter after i played DA2, didn't have to read a novel to figure that out.

[Deadmac]

Knight of Dane wrote...
I felt like Hawke didn't matter after i played DA2, didn't have to read a novel to figure that out.

I had the same feeling. Even though you pushed to establish yourself in Kirkwall, the end result was for your character to walk away. It felt as if Hawke said, "I give up man! You freaks take care of your own problems."

Modifié par Deadmac, 11 janvier 2012 - 05:57 .

[LobselVith8]

BubbleDncr wrote...

Anyone else get similar feelings, or am I misinterpretting things?

I feel the same. What you've said pretty much sums up how inconsequential the events in Dragon Age II really were, although Dane has a good point about the game doing little to make the player feel like anything that Hawke did mattered.

[PrinceLionheart]

Deadmac wrote...

Knight of Dane wrote...
I felt like Hawke didn't matter after i played DA2, didn't have to read a novel to figure that out.

I had the same feeling. Even though you pushed to establish yourself in Kirkwall, the end result was for your character to walk away. It felt like Hawke said, "I give up man! You freaks take care of your own problems."

One thing to keep in mind is that these expanded universe stories are going to keep references to the PC to a minimum. It's the same thing with all of Mass Effect Novels. Shepard is the single most important person in the galaxy, but (s)he's essentially footnote when it comes to the books.

[gaurdian9sunshine]

After I read the book, I was pissed. I felt like my actions in Kirwall really didn't matter at all. As I said in the other Asunder forum, I feel Casandra was just grasping at straws when she talked to Varric. I always thought that the other circles rebeled because of the actions of Anders and it wasn't the case. 

[Morroian]

gaurdian9sunshine wrote...

After I read the book, I was pissed. I felt like my actions in Kirwall really didn't matter at all. As I said in the other Asunder forum, I feel Casandra was just grasping at straws when she talked to Varric. I always thought that the other circles rebeled because of the actions of Anders and it wasn't the case. 

Yes it was, without Kirkwall the mages wouldn't have reached the point of rebellion as soon as the events of Asunder.

[Plaintiff]

Ander's actions most definitely do matter.

In war, there is no such thing as a single inciting incident. Conflict on such a scale erupts as the result of mounting tensions on all sides and a number of different factors.

It's the same case with the mage/templar war. Both sides have been leading up to this for the last thousand years. Pointing at Anders or at the events of Ausnder and saying "here is where the conflict began" would be ignoring everything else that contributed in an equally significant way.

That said, I haven't read Asunder, but it does bother me that the novel sounds like an attempt to sideline DA2. The most important aspects of the story should be occurring in the games, not in secondary media that isn't readily available to all audiences.

[Heimdall]

Kirkwall essentially prepped the kindling. The following events and the climax of Asunder provided the spark.

That's how it came off to me anyway.

Modifié par Lord Aesir, 12 janvier 2012 - 12:56 .

[WhiteKnyght]

The events of Kirkwall caused a large Templar crackdown on all the other Circles.

- The College of the Magi was dissolved.

- Mages lost nearly all personal liberties that they had before.

- Every mage in Thedas was worried that the Right of Annulment would be invoked over the most minimal reason. Seeing as Meredith abused the right to satisfy her bigotry, not because the Circle was actually guilty.

And if Hawke hadn't been in Kirkwall it would have never got that far. The Qunari's siege would have succeeded and every mage in their Circle there would have become filled with Seerebas. And if that hadn't happened, Meredith wouldn't have been driven insane because that idol would still be in the deep roads. And Anders would have been captured in that trap the Templars set with Karl as bait, and he would likely have been made tranquil.

Also if you pay attention to what Varric says. He never explicitly says that the incident at the Gallows were the direct cause of the rebellion. He says "The champions name became a rallying cry that the Templars could be defied." Meaning that Hawke is merely used to inspire the mages to not surrender. Not that he was directly responsible for everything.

[gaurdian9sunshine]

Plaintiff wrote...

Ander's actions most definitely do matter.

In war, there is no such thing as a single inciting incident. Conflict on such a scale erupts as the result of mounting tensions on all sides and a number of different factors.

It's the same case with the mage/templar war. Both sides have been leading up to this for the last thousand years. Pointing at Anders or at the events of Ausnder and saying "here is where the conflict began" would be ignoring everything else that contributed in an equally significant way.

That said, I haven't read Asunder, but it does bother me that the novel sounds like an attempt to sideline DA2. The most important aspects of the story should be occurring in the games, not in secondary media that isn't readily available to all audiences.

You're right. The war has been building up for the last thousand years. Varric or Casandra never said what happened in the Gallows was the reason why the mages rebelled. That just made everything a lot more tense than before. The mages wern't able to meet anymore and they lost a lot of the freedoms after what happened in Kirkwall. What happened in the gallows lead up to the events of Asunder.
I always wondered why the templars spit off from the chantry, and Asunder covers that very well. Anders was right: there is no way to change things peacefully. They would rather kill all mages rather than be free. 
I ordered my copy of Asunder from Barnes and Noble and it was there less than a week later. 

[Sylvianus]

Hawk didn't really matter, indeed.
But, anyways, in mass effect novels, Shepard wasn't really mentioned either. One or two times and that's it.

It seems Anders served purpose. He darkened the atmosphere in the White Spire, etc , and give hope to many mages.

The warden is also mentioned sometimes, more than Hawk I think.

Modifié par Sylvianus, 13 janvier 2012 - 12:08 .

[Morroian]

Sylvianus wrote...

Hawk didn't really matter, indeed.
But, anyways, in mass effect novels, Shepard wasn't really mentioned either. One or two times and that's it.

It seems Anders served purpose. He darkened the atmosphere in the White Spire, etc , and give hope to many mages.

The warden is also mentioned sometimes, more than Hawk I think.

Hawke is not mentioned because s/he can do 1 of 2 things in the game, support the templars or suppoert the mages, whereas the Warden is important for one thing, defeating the Arch Demon. 

[darkrose]

Deadmac wrote...

Knight of Dane wrote...
I felt like Hawke didn't matter after i played DA2, didn't have to read a novel to figure that out.

I had the same feeling. Even though you pushed to establish yourself in Kirkwall, the end result was for your character to walk away. It felt as if Hawke said, "I give up man! You freaks take care of your own problems."

I just wish Hawke had the option to say that before Anders go boom.

[darkrose]

Plaintiff wrote...

Ander's actions most definitely do matter.

Anders' actions mattered, but I didn't feel like Hawke's did. Even granting that there were two choices you could have made, the bit where the Knight-Commander goes nuts and is turned into a lyrium statue always happens. That never got mentioned, though, even as an "well, Anders was wrong but Meredith being psycho didn't help" aside. 

[HiroVoid]

Wasn't all of DAII basically there to prove Hawke didn't really have anything to do with the mage and templar conflict, but just simply got caught up in it?

[gaurdian9sunshine]

HiroVoid wrote...

Wasn't all of DAII basically there to prove Hawke didn't really have anything to do with the mage and templar conflict, but just simply got caught up in it?

You forget, even before the events of Kirkwall, Hawke was already involved in it. At very least Hawke's father and Bethany were apostates, and Hawke may have been one as well. The point of DA:2 is that it was all possible because of Hawke. Hawke helped Anders with that ambush with Karl in act 1. You find out about Thrask's daughter, and either force some mages back into the circle or let them go. The events of DA:2 are what lead up to the book, and all the circles were a lot more tense than before Anders blew up the chanty with the Grand Cleric inside.

Modifié par gaurdian9sunshine, 13 janvier 2012 - 09:04 .

[Blacklash93]

At this point I'm convinced that the DA team just wants to wipe DA2's plot under the rug as much as possible now.

[Wulfram]

For want of a nail the battle was lost, but that doesn't mean I want to read a story about someone shoeing a horse incompetently

[leeboi2]

Hawke doesn't matter, it's what they did that matters.

[Sylvianus]

Morroian wrote...

Sylvianus wrote...

Hawk didn't really matter, indeed.
But, anyways, in mass effect novels, Shepard wasn't really mentioned either. One or two times and that's it.

It seems Anders served purpose. He darkened the atmosphere in the White Spire, etc , and give hope to many mages.

The warden is also mentioned sometimes, more than Hawk I think.

Hawke is not mentioned because s/he can do 1 of 2 things in the game, support the templars or suppoert the mages, whereas the Warden is important for one thing, defeating the Arch Demon. 

That's weird. Didn't they say, that books, comics have got their own canon story like Mass effect's novels ? Why couldn't they choose a side for Hawke in this case ?

Modifié par Sylvianus, 15 janvier 2012 - 12:42 .

[David Gaider]

Sylvianus wrote...
That's weird. Didn't they say, that books, comics have got their own canon story like Mass effect's novels ? Why couldn't they choose a side for Hawke in this case ?

Because creating canon for events and creating canon for player characters are two quite different things. The people at Tor, who have published numerous tie-ins, said as much-- fans tend to be okay with the former and far less okay with the latter-- and I can see their point. Since there's no way to avoid mentioning Hawke in the context of the book's conflict without also mentioning which side of the conflict Hawke came down on, I had to avoid mentioning Hawke at all.

Which doesn't bother me, since the references are minor at best anyhow. The point was not to pat a player on the hand and reassure them how very important their Hawke is. They'll have the games for that.

[Huntress]

Sylvianus wrote...

Morroian wrote...

Sylvianus wrote...

Hawk didn't really matter, indeed.
But, anyways, in mass effect novels, Shepard wasn't really mentioned either. One or two times and that's it.

It seems Anders served purpose. He darkened the atmosphere in the White Spire, etc , and give hope to many mages.

The warden is also mentioned sometimes, more than Hawk I think.

Hawke is not mentioned because s/he can do 1 of 2 things in the game, support the templars or suppoert the mages, whereas the Warden is important for one thing, defeating the Arch Demon. 

That's weird. Didn't they say, that books, comics have got their own canon story like Mass effect's novels ? Why couldn't they choose a side for Hawke in this case ?

Haven't read the book yet and I am sad and glad to know he/she in not mentioned in the book because, IF for any reason the writer pic the less flavored side of the story then the forum  implodes and explodes at the very same time, 0.5 seconds later time itself stops for millions of years and we never going to play DA3, now that would be a terrible thing to happen!

[Sylvianus]

David Gaider wrote...

Sylvianus wrote...
That's weird. Didn't they say, that books, comics have got their own canon story like Mass effect's novels ? Why couldn't they choose a side for Hawke in this case ?

Because creating canon for events and creating canon for player characters are two quite different things. The people at Tor, who have published numerous tie-ins, said as much-- fans tend to be okay with the former and far less okay with the latter-- and I can see their point. Since there's no way to avoid mentioning Hawke in the context of the book's conflict without also mentioning which side of the conflict Hawke came down on, I had to avoid mentioning Hawke at all.

Which doesn't bother me, since the references are minor at best anyhow. The point was not to pat a player on the hand and reassure them how very important their Hawke is. They'll have the games for that.

Okay, I see. Personally, It wouldn't bother me,  as long as in the games, I can have different perceptions from my own choices in my own story. Because like you said, references are minor at best. But it's probably better, indeed.
Also, I like the " they'll have the games for that ", that could mean, I don't know.... sequel !

Modifié par Sylvianus, 15 janvier 2012 - 10:26 .