757 réponses à ce sujet

[Sundance31us]

chance52 wrote...
Why is EA actively trying to drive away customers? That lifetime limit directly contradicts several conversations I had with EA's tech support.

When they implement these policies is it by someone who is about to apply for a job at a competing company and their goal is to walk in to the interview and say "Hire me, I just drove a lot of people away from you competition!"

I've run into download limits with just about every piece of software I own (when a computer dies you can't transfer a license) and the worse company I've ever dealt with to date was Adobe (closely followed by Intuit).

[chance52]

cgrimm54 wrote...

chance52 wrote...

There is a reinstall limit?! WTF?  For what possible reason would EA have to limit the number of times we change the program layout on our own computers?

So you can't, say, give all of your friends your Origin credentials, thereby effectively giving them a bunch of free games?  That's the entire reason behind install limits.

Aside from the fact that giving even one person your credentials is a violation of your Bioware/EA account and it can be suspended. Also you can't be logged in at the same time in multiple places. So what EA? Me and a dozen friends all share a few hours a week playing games little by little?

The entire reason I even bought Mass Effect one and two is because my friend let me borrow his physical copies.  Otherwise EA/Bioware you never would have made those two sales from me in the first place. I had zero interest in the series and my buddy kept trying for a year to get me to play them before I agreed. But when I asked tech support if I could let my buddy play my digital copy of dragon age to test out if he liked it I was told in no uncertain terms 'no'

EA just stop, stop now, for your own sake

But still any mods know anything about the backup issue, or any of these other issues with running Origin and if they will be fixed before ME3's release?

[chance52]

Sundance31us wrote...

chance52 wrote...
Why is EA actively trying to drive away customers? That lifetime limit directly contradicts several conversations I had with EA's tech support.

When they implement these policies is it by someone who is about to apply for a job at a competing company and their goal is to walk in to the interview and say "Hire me, I just drove a lot of people away from you competition!"

I've run into download limits with just about every piece of software I own (when a computer dies you can't transfer a license) and the worse company I've ever dealt with to date was Adobe (closely followed by Intuit).

Well that explains my surprise, most software I get is in physical form, I only buy games in digital form. The only other thing this even reminded me of was my iPod's activation limit and that is the entire reason I don't by my songs from iTunes anymore.

[IBPROFEN]

abaris wrote...

Boomer-Australia wrote...

I actually don't care about origin looking at my installed programs, my secret porn folder, etc 

So I assume you don't work on your computer, don't use it for banking or taxes. You don't use it for personal conversations with friends and family.

All of this says about all about you and leaves you wide open to all kinds of fraud up to identity theft.

What I want to say is this. Even if Origins sticks to a minimum, there's no guarantee they won't be hacked some time in the future. It happened to major players and their servers and bank- as well as credit card details became more or less public.

You're comfortable with that?

 If I use a CC on any computer its not my personal one. Like the BW points I bought I went to local store and purchased a $50.00 card for doing tht. I'll never use my cards online.
 As for Origin, if was more like Steam like game file backup and game integrity would be helpful.
 I've been playing DC of ME1 without origin running just make sure you have desktop shortcut for the game.

Modifié par IBPROFEN, 10 janvier 2012 - 02:20 .

[AndrewRogue]

Generally speaking, they can't endorse it. Period. At all. Otherwise they fling the gates wide for legitimate piracy of their materials. If they said "Sure, your friend can play it!" they are, in effect, giving you permission to throw it up on a file sharing site and go "All these people playing are my friends and I am just letting them try it out!"

Yes. This is jerk stuff to do. Unfortunately, customers are just as big of jerks, leading to a whole mess.

[chance52]

AndrewRogue wrote...

Generally speaking, they can't endorse it. Period. At all. Otherwise they fling the gates wide for legitimate piracy of their materials. If they said "Sure, your friend can play it!" they are, in effect, giving you permission to throw it up on a file sharing site and go "All these people playing are my friends and I am just letting them try it out!"

Yes. This is jerk stuff to do. Unfortunately, customers are just as big of jerks, leading to a whole mess.

Or they could do what my gym does every 3-4 months and that is send me guest passes to hand out that are good for a set period of time.  My gym, and lets face it lots of other business like cable and internet services, do quite well by having existing customers act as sales agents and getting their friends and family to try a product they like.

But still any moderators out there, even if you have no info on these fixes could you look into it while we are wanting on final conformation on ME3's Origin requirement?

[AndrewRogue]

The problem is that enforcing gym memberships is a lot easier.

[charmingcharlie]

chance52 wrote... Or they could do what my gym does every 3-4 months and that is send me guest passes to hand out that are good for a set period of time.

You know that is an excellent idea, I really don't know why companies don't do this.  I mean with Digital Distribution it opens the doors up to things like "free weekends" where people can try aspects like the multiplayer or better still something like a "guest pass" a couple of passes that come with the game when you buy it that you can give to your friends and they get access to the game for a certain period of time.

I really do not know why someone hasn't thought of this ................ wait for it ............ wait for it ........ Yep there is already a DD service that offers free weekends of multiplayer games and also offer a guest pass service for any publishers wishing to use that facility.  I wonder if you can guess which DD service offers these ?  I will give you a clue it sure as hell isn't Origin.

This is another problem I have with Origin, it is needlessly restrictive.  There is no need for them to put limitations on my purchases other DD sites don't do that.  I know that if I buy Portal 2 from Steam I can download it as many times as I like, if I want I can download the game every single day if the fancy takes me.  I cannot say the same thing about an EA game and even less so with a game that has Origin infested in it.

[DiegoProgMetal]

Ok, I've been using Origin in my PC for more than 6 months now. And guess what: I'm still alive.

But I understand your concerns and your right to disagree with anything Origin/EA do.

If any of you want to play the game without having to worry about privacy, there is a simple, completely legal solution (by legal I mean, you don't need to sandbox/circumvent anything). Just create a new partition on your hdd, install Windows and Origin, hide the partition you use for daily tasks from this Windows install, and be happy with your games. There will be nothing to be "stolen", only Windows, it's device drivers, maybe an internet browser with some plugins and Origin. Done. No illegal methods used, no private files to be monitored, no concerns with a possible hacked Origin (if that is still a worry, make sure to install a good Antivirus+Firewall and only download the Origin client from EA servers).

If you're not happy with it, well that's the best I can do to help.

[100k]

How does EA/Bioware justify forcing Origin upon loyal and supportive customers who don't have internet, or don't want to risk unwelcome eyes?

I just want to know this.

[kojac.ghosper]

Look, I don't know if they consider sandboxing circumvention, but they shouldn't. If you are uncomfortable with the program's ability to access data it shouldn't, run it in an isolated environment. I don't think that's a violation of anything. You are certainly allowed to protect your physical property from trespass or theft, I don't see why digital property would be any different.

4th amendment wins.

[didymos1120]

100k wrote...

How does EA/Bioware justify forcing Origin upon loyal and supportive customers who don't have internet, or don't want to risk unwelcome eyes?

I just want to know this.

Well, the question actually is "How do publishers in general justify forcing online authentication upon loyal and supportive customers who don't have internet?", because from what we can tell, that's why EA is using it with ME3.

[DRUNK_CANADIAN]

Dear Bioware staff, is there any chance this game will come Origin free for PC, or that EA will get their heads out of their buttocks (too tired to put it nicely sorry) and modify the EULA and client so that it operates in the same manner as other clients? I seriously want this game on PC, but you are breaking my balls like you wouldn't believe. And yes its your product, but isn't the whole purpose of Origin to attract gamers to the platform and get sales? Bit hard when it operates in the manner it does.

[billy the squid]

hangmans tree wrote...

Yo.
Well, the lawyers in my country have spoken (on pages of Daily Legal Newspaper) - selling used games is legal.  Quoted after
http://www.cdaction.pl/news-24313/

(...)means that after selling it, the manufacturer can not protest against the sale (reselling) by the first purchaser.

This applies on Polish territory, and also on the European Economic Area. A license agreement? They can not restrict this right. Dr. Michalak says:

The provision of exhaustion of rights is a mandatory provision and the parties can not contractually modify it.

...

Online passes - one-time codes included in the new copies that unlock access to multi or additives DLC. Thus, the original purchaser will not sell the same product, which he bought. This may mean that the buyer does not buy the game, but only a developer commitment to provide entertainment. Attorney Thomas Lustyk believes that it is incompatible with the rights of consumers:

Most people who acquire this game, however, is not aware of whether to buy or enters into a contract. For these reasons, I believe that such practices of game producers may be inconsistent with the rights of consumers and the obligations imposed on players decorum.

So in short, reselling gamas is OUR RIGHT.
Practices like Origin or Steam are in contradiction with EU law. Apart from being morally indecent, a game should be a product we can resell. Things like buying a game = a lifetime commitement is plain exploit.
Why do we have to put up with this I ask?

Prima facie the article is correct, but it heavily oversimplifies and does not go into the required detail and analysis required to determine whether the doctrine of exhaustion applies in total of not. Nor does it examine whether the DLC is treated as subsidiary part of the situation, namely part of IP, but itself being a seperate transaction and as such governed by a different and seperate contract.

In addition time issues are not accounted for. If the DLC is day one DLC is it part of the inital transaction or does the transaction take place when one enters the code? For I can enter the code seperately or simply sell it. As to the digitall nature of the transaction, there is nothing to sell. Doctrines of exhaustion tend to apply to physical copy resale so digital downlosd is a grey area which seems more akin to a license rather than physical ownership.

Finally there is a balance between IP protection and resale rights, paticularly on PC.

Starting to see that things are not so clear cut in terms of law? This is only some thoughts from a quick read, an actual analysisin detail would take several pages depending on how detailed an examination is performed.

Modifié par billy the squid, 10 janvier 2012 - 03:47 .

[Wardka]

DiegoProgMetal wrote...

Ok, I've been using Origin in my PC for more than 6 months now. And guess what: I'm still alive.

But I understand your concerns and your right to disagree with anything Origin/EA do.

If any of you want to play the game without having to worry about privacy, there is a simple, completely legal solution (by legal I mean, you don't need to sandbox/circumvent anything). Just create a new partition on your hdd, install Windows and Origin, hide the partition you use for daily tasks from this Windows install, and be happy with your games. There will be nothing to be "stolen", only Windows, it's device drivers, maybe an internet browser with some plugins and Origin. Done. No illegal methods used, no private files to be monitored, no concerns with a possible hacked Origin (if that is still a worry, make sure to install a good Antivirus+Firewall and only download the Origin client from EA servers).

If you're not happy with it, well that's the best I can do to help.

I appreciate that you're trying to help, but I don't think you understand what the issue is. It's not what Origin does right now that's really important - I don't think anyone really believes that the Origin client is trying to steal all your credit card numbers or whatever - but it is what it has potential to do, and the slippery slope of ambiguously worded EULAs and so forth.

Think of it this way:

Let's say your favorite grocery store would suddenly tell you that yes, they can absolutely sell you groceries, but only if you accept that they install a device in your fridge that keeps track of what you keep in there and what you eat, and then sends that information back to the store. No one would take that seriously and no one would accept that. This is exactly the same thing, but for some reason people don't take it as seriously since it's "just" data. Well, I'm saying that it's my data, and no one but me has any right to it. It doesn't matter how much or how little it is, or how trivial or sensitive the information is - it is my data, and mine alone.

The people protesting against the Origin client recognize the danger of allowing something companies like EA to get away with something like this - if we don't put our collective foot down and say that we don't accept our computers being pried into now, that leaves the door open for practices that are far more malevolent than what the Origin client does currently.

Modifié par Wardka, 10 janvier 2012 - 03:45 .

[kojac.ghosper]

You then have 2 choices with that grocery store: stop buying there OR build a little enclosure around their device.

[shep82]

sacre85 wrote...

Alex_SM wrote...

INSTALLATION OF THE ORIGIN CLIENT SOFTWARE (WWW.ORIGIN.COM/ABOUT) AND REGISTRATION WITH ENCLOSED SINGLE-USE SERIAL CODE(S) REQUIRED TO PLAY, ACCESS BONUS CONTENT (IF ANY) AND ACCESS ONLINE SERVICES

I guess I won't be playing ME3.

So long I still will.

[Homey C-Dawg]

@Wardka Couldn't have said it better myself.

Too much restriction for us, too much allowance for EA.

Modifié par Homey C-Dawg, 10 janvier 2012 - 04:12 .

[Sundance31us]

Wardka wrote...
Think of it this way:

Let's say your favorite grocery store would suddenly tell you that yes, they can absolutely sell you groceries, but only if you accept that they install a device in your fridge that keeps track of what you keep in there and what you eat, and then sends that information back to the store. No one would take that seriously and no one would accept that. This is exactly the same thing, but for some reason people don't take it as seriously since it's "just" data. Well, I'm saying that it's my data, and no one but me has any right to it. It doesn't matter how much or how little it is, or how trivial or sensitive the information is - it is my data, and mine alone.

Technically unless you pay by cash and forgo a discount card they do do something like that when you purchase items. Your credit card, check and or discount card tells them who you are and they know what you buy from the bar codes. Depending on the chain you may be handed coupons specific to the products you usually buy after the sale is finished.

[MadLaughter]

"Until we give you answers." And when, pray tell, might that be? Oh yeah, the day of release, when everyone finds out anyway? Or never mention it again, like the DA2 mod tools or the Mordin VA situation.

[hangmans tree]

billy the squid wrote...

hangmans tree wrote...

Yo.(snip)
Why do we have to put up with this I ask?

Prima facie the article is correct, but it heavily oversimplifies and does not go into the required detail and analysis required to determine whether the doctrine of exhaustion applies in total of not. Nor does it examine whether the DLC is treated as subsidiary part of the situation, namely part of IP, but itself being a seperate transaction and as such governed by a different and seperate contract.

In addition time issues are not accounted for. If the DLC is day one DLC is it part of the inital transaction or does the transaction take place when one enters the code? For I can enter the code seperately or simply sell it. As to the digitall nature of the transaction, there is nothing to sell. Doctrines of exhaustion tend to apply to physical copy resale so digital downlosd is a grey area which seems more akin to a license rather than physical ownership.

Finally there is a balance between IP protection and resale rights, paticularly on PC.

Starting to see that things are not so clear cut in terms of law? This is only some thoughts from a quick read, an actual analysisin detail would take several pages depending on how detailed an examination is performed.

I forgot to mention it was about physical products, downloadable material excluded. So you are right on that part. And by lenght this article is a brief description of subject which the newspaper discuss in detail, I guess - I havent been able to buy the paper, I was informed about the article in the evening and the paper is daily :/

Modifié par hangmans tree, 10 janvier 2012 - 08:10 .

[Fredvdp]

I don't think this was mentioned here before but there is this tiny annoyance I had with the Origin software before I uninstalled it. Apparently EA, just like Microsoft, thinks that every country in the world is monolingual. I live in Belgium, a trilingual country where the dominant language (60%) is Dutch, which is also my first language, and then there is a group that speaks French and a small minority of German spakers. For some reason EA thinks that we all speak French and it is impossible to run the Origin store within the application in any other language than French when you download the software in Belgium. GFWL had the exact same problem.

Modifié par Fredvdp, 10 janvier 2012 - 11:44 .

[Sethan_1]

Homey C-Dawg wrote...

Chris Priestly wrote...

Each time it has been closed before is because talks turn to piracy or other copy/protection circumvention. Sicne this hasn't yet, it will stay open until we give you answers or someone takes teh discussion off course again.

Do appreciate that btw.

Think theres a chance we can get any information about this before March 6th? I know it's an uncomfortable subject, but people are waiting.

I hope we can.  I only check this forum once every few days anymore, but I still check specifically for that reason. 

I'd really like to be able to pre-order ME3, but the difference between my doing so and not getting it at all will depend on the news on Origin.  I'll still pick it up if the news is what we want to hear and doesn't come in until after March 6 - just won't be able to pre-order at that point.

[Killjoy Cutter]

Well, as of right now, no ME3 for me.

My privacy and security are more important than a game.

Yours are too.

Modifié par Killjoy Cutter, 10 janvier 2012 - 02:14 .