757 réponses à ce sujet

[jamesp81]

Wardka wrote...

DiegoProgMetal wrote...

Ok, I've been using Origin in my PC for more than 6 months now. And guess what: I'm still alive.

But I understand your concerns and your right to disagree with anything Origin/EA do.

If any of you want to play the game without having to worry about privacy, there is a simple, completely legal solution (by legal I mean, you don't need to sandbox/circumvent anything). Just create a new partition on your hdd, install Windows and Origin, hide the partition you use for daily tasks from this Windows install, and be happy with your games. There will be nothing to be "stolen", only Windows, it's device drivers, maybe an internet browser with some plugins and Origin. Done. No illegal methods used, no private files to be monitored, no concerns with a possible hacked Origin (if that is still a worry, make sure to install a good Antivirus+Firewall and only download the Origin client from EA servers).

If you're not happy with it, well that's the best I can do to help.

I appreciate that you're trying to help, but I don't think you understand what the issue is. It's not what Origin does right now that's really important - I don't think anyone really believes that the Origin client is trying to steal all your credit card numbers or whatever - but it is what it has potential to do, and the slippery slope of ambiguously worded EULAs and so forth.

Think of it this way:

Let's say your favorite grocery store would suddenly tell you that yes, they can absolutely sell you groceries, but only if you accept that they install a device in your fridge that keeps track of what you keep in there and what you eat, and then sends that information back to the store. No one would take that seriously and no one would accept that. This is exactly the same thing, but for some reason people don't take it as seriously since it's "just" data. Well, I'm saying that it's my data, and no one but me has any right to it. It doesn't matter how much or how little it is, or how trivial or sensitive the information is - it is my data, and mine alone.

The people protesting against the Origin client recognize the danger of allowing something companies like EA to get away with something like this - if we don't put our collective foot down and say that we don't accept our computers being pried into now, that leaves the door open for practices that are far more malevolent than what the Origin client does currently.

The bottom line is that any data that leaves your computer is not private.

IT  DOES  NOT  MATTER that EA plans no nefarious uses of things credit card info, or personal information.   The fact is that that information now exists on an EA server somewhere, and if some third party wants it bad enough, THEY  WILL  SUCCEED  IN  GETTING  IT.

And don't even get me started on security.  Origin can scan your hard drive and do pretty much anything it wants.  The potential for third party / hacker exploitation of that is very real and very dangerous.  And unlike business and industrial software, a game company simply does not care enough about its customers to fix security flaws in a timely fashion.

Origin is dangerous.  You'd be crazy to install it on a system that contains any data you'd rather not have prying eyes looking at.

[Lumikki]

There isn't much to say. Good product is something what customers likes.
 
Origin client is liked and hated, so it should be totally optional product. If company want to use digital distribution software, they can and some customers even want's it. How ever, customers who doesn't want it, should not be forced to use it, just to play games.
 
There isn't long when we will know Origin client situation in ME3, because publishing date is coming closer. Silence is pretty much always sign of bad news. I can only say that if Origin client is required to play ME3, I don't buy ME3 at all. It doesn't matter how good the games are, because it's my choice, what softwares are installed into my computer. It's my choice what softwares I like to use. If company can't make games so that they respects they customers choices, then I ques I give my money to some other company.

This is about company respecting they customers. We have rights to make our own choices about our computer privacy.

Modifié par Lumikki, 10 janvier 2012 - 05:14 .

[Tup3x]

Origin is just as "dangerous" as Steam. I have no idea why people think that it's dangerous. I can assure you that EA will not email your p0rn collection to your girlfriend nor does it steal your documents or anything like that. I'd like to keep my Mass Effect series in Steam and I much prefer that over Origin but it's not that big issue to me.

I haven't bought a single game from Origin directly, DA:O, BF2:BC, Crysis 2 and ME2 are Steam versions which registered just fine in Origin and BF3 and SW:TOR are retail versions from Amazon UK. Mass Effect 1 Steam version did not register in Origin.

Modifié par Tup3xi, 10 janvier 2012 - 04:05 .

[elitecom]

Tup3xi wrote...

Origin is just as "dangerous" as Steam. I have no idea why people think that it's dangerous. I can assure you that EA will not email your p0rn collection to your girlfriend nor does it steal your documents or anything like that. I'd like to keep my Mass Effect series in Steam and I much prefer that over Origin but it's not that big issue to me.

It's not so much about which is worse or I've nothing to hide. It's a matter of prinicples, and how so many have willingly forsaken those principles in exchange for convenience or reluctance to take action. EA or Steam or any corporate entity has no right to scan either your or my computer for any personal information and then give it to third parties. Especially when that information is in no way related to the game.

Some are willing to make a stand for this, and for that I commend them. 

Besides that, it's tacked on and should in no way necessary to play the game. Why must I these days instal an extra piece of software which has no relationship to the game I want to play just to play my game? It's absurd.

[Bostur]

Sethan_1 wrote...

Homey C-Dawg wrote...

Chris Priestly wrote...

Each time it has been closed before is because talks turn to piracy or other copy/protection circumvention. Sicne this hasn't yet, it will stay open until we give you answers or someone takes teh discussion off course again.

Do appreciate that btw.

Think theres a chance we can get any information about this before March 6th? I know it's an uncomfortable subject, but people are waiting.

I hope we can.  I only check this forum once every few days anymore, but I still check specifically for that reason. 

I'd really like to be able to pre-order ME3, but the difference between my doing so and not getting it at all will depend on the news on Origin.  I'll still pick it up if the news is what we want to hear and doesn't come in until after March 6 - just won't be able to pre-order at that point.

Yeah the same with me, I check in to see if there's any news on the requirements. Thanks for keeping this thread active, it would be nice if you would make a sticky when there is a definite answer.

[Relix28]

Tup3xi wrote...

Origin is just as "dangerous" as Steam. I have no idea why people think that it's dangerous. I can assure you that EA will not email your p0rn collection to your girlfriend nor does it steal your documents or anything like that. I'd like to keep my Mass Effect series in Steam and I much prefer that over Origin but it's not that big issue to me.

I haven't bought a single game from Origin directly, DA:O, BF2:BC, Crysis 2 and ME2 are Steam versions which registered just fine in Origin and BF3 and SW:TOR are retail versions from Amazon UK. Mass Effect 1 Steam version did not register in Origin.

I'm sorry, but you are really missing the point here. The real issue lies in how Origin's EULA is worded, in wich they are basically reserving the right to scan your entire computer and forward all that data to third-parties. Long story short, they might not be spying on your junk right now, but in the future they will have the right to invade your privacy without any notice, because by agreeing to their terms you basically signed a deal that allowes them to do so.
Maybe that's fine by you, or maybe you still think it's no big deal, but a lot of us gamers here, and not just here, know better and are not willing to stand for it.

Modifié par Relix28, 10 janvier 2012 - 05:15 .

[v0rt3x22]

Well for some people it's the EULA - for others it's the fact that we really don't need 2-3 digital distribution programs on our computer. We like to have things in one place - especially those who already purchased ME1 and 2 on Steam.

[Relix28]

While those issues might be inconveniet and annoying for some of the customers, they are miniscule problems in comparison for what's at stake here. Origin is a corporate scam, wich essentialy tries to fool people to agree to their intrusive terms and allow a corporation to have full access to your computer data at any given time. And EA's PR dept. can assure me a hundered times over that they aren't/won't scan my entire computer and I still won't buy it. Because it really doesn't matter what their spokesmen say, it's agreeing (or not agreeing) to thier terms is what really matters. And that's where the big issue is, in their ambiguously worded EULA, that basically allows them to invade one's privacy, if one chooses to agree to it.

Modifié par Relix28, 10 janvier 2012 - 05:37 .

[Sith_exar_kun]

I installed Origin and I'm having problems with Steam (ie Can't see steam update news if Origin is open, i run an i5 2500k unlocked to 4,8ghz and i have 8gb ram -> It's not a computer issue), so I keep it close. I really hope to get ME3 on steam.

[Fredvdp]

v0rt3x22 wrote...

Well for some people it's the EULA - for others it's the fact that we really don't need 2-3 digital distribution programs on our computer. We like to have things in one place - especially those who already purchased ME1 and 2 on Steam.

I register my EA games to Origin whether I'll use the platform or not for the simple reason that I want a digital backup in case I lose my product key or scratch my disc. I just hope it won't be necessary to have Origin running at all times when I want to play ME3. I can live with using Origin for online authentication but that's about it. If this means I can then play ME3 without the disc and without the Origin application I definitely won't have a problem with that.

As for privacy, I have two PCs and this one's for dedicated gaming. My other PC has some things on it I don't want them to see but my new one is pretty clean.

[Pupuppu]

Relix28 wrote...
... And that's where the big issue is, in their ambiguously worded EULA, that basically allows them to invade one's privacy, if one chooses to agree to it.

Not only that. When Origin was released their EULA was much more intrusive, with data selling to third parties and so on. After all the protest they changed their EULA many times, stating that it's not worse now then what a website policy requires. Surely they must have something like facebook in mind but still miss the fact, that we buy a game and not an opt-in to a social network/data mining experiment.
But looking back at the frequent EULA changes, no one gives you the guarantee, that the EULA will not change to the worse, they even explicitly give themselves the right to do so, and looking at their history this is what to expect will happen.
Then they will hold your purchased games as a hostage. Accept our great new community/data selling features or you cannot access your games anymore.

[Killjoy Cutter]

v0rt3x22 wrote...

Well for some people it's the EULA - for others it's the fact that we really don't need 2-3 digital distribution programs on our computer. We like to have things in one place - especially those who already purchased ME1 and 2 on Steam.

Or those of us who don't like or use digital distribution software at all. 

If I go buy a hard copy of a game, what possible use is an extra DD program to me?  None.  The answer is none at all.  

And even if you don't want a hard copy, there's always the good old downloadable installer for that game, no extra DD software needed. 

So not only is Origin invasive, it's also complete waste of resources and completely unnecessary.

[Killjoy Cutter]

Pupuppu wrote...

Relix28 wrote...
... And that's where the big issue is, in their ambiguously worded EULA, that basically allows them to invade one's privacy, if one chooses to agree to it.

Not only that. When Origin was released their EULA was much more intrusive, with data selling to third parties and so on. After all the protest they changed their EULA many times, stating that it's not worse now then what a website policy requires. Surely they must have something like facebook in mind but still miss the fact, that we buy a game and not an opt-in to a social network/data mining experiment.
But looking back at the frequent EULA changes, no one gives you the guarantee, that the EULA will not change to the worse, they even explicitly give themselves the right to do so, and looking at their history this is what to expect will happen.
Then they will hold your purchased games as a hostage. Accept our great new community/data selling features or you cannot access your games anymore.

Exactly.  As long as your access to the product you purchased is controlled by someone else, they can take it away at any moment. 

[v_Zalem]

I like how we're less than two months away from release and there's still no definite answer. When are the people that are supposed to be answering these simple questions going to stop beating around the bush? Do they take us for idiots? I think it's obvious at this point about Origin being required in some form or fashion. I'd just like to know why it isn't required for TOR - which is an online only game, it's required for Battlefield 3 (even though now plenty of people have issues with it), but somehow required for Mass Effect 3 - which is a single/multiplayer game...makes no sense to me at all. Why the backpedaling EA? Sad times indeed.

Modifié par v_Zalem, 10 janvier 2012 - 06:48 .

[Dovahzaan]

[quote]v_Zalem wrote...
Do they take us for idiots?
[/quote]
Yes, they do. And since there isn't as much protest, as it should be, they are right. We are idiots.
[quote]

v_Zalem wrote...
Why the backpedaling EA?[/quote]
[/quote]

http://www.eurogamer...l-us-what-to-do
I know it's not true, but they want us believe, that they are in charge. So blame BioWare, not EA.

[Abirn]

Relix28 wrote...

Tup3xi wrote...

Origin is just as "dangerous" as Steam. I have no idea why people think that it's dangerous. I can assure you that EA will not email your p0rn collection to your girlfriend nor does it steal your documents or anything like that. I'd like to keep my Mass Effect series in Steam and I much prefer that over Origin but it's not that big issue to me.

I haven't bought a single game from Origin directly, DA:O, BF2:BC, Crysis 2 and ME2 are Steam versions which registered just fine in Origin and BF3 and SW:TOR are retail versions from Amazon UK. Mass Effect 1 Steam version did not register in Origin.

I'm sorry, but you are really missing the point here. The real issue lies in how Origin's EULA is worded, in wich they are basically reserving the right to scan your entire computer and forward all that data to third-parties. Long story short, they might not be spying on your junk right now, but in the future they will have the right to invade your privacy without any notice, because by agreeing to their terms you basically signed a deal that allowes them to do so.
Maybe that's fine by you, or maybe you still think it's no big deal, but a lot of us gamers here, and not just here, know better and are not willing to stand for it.

That is why you limit it's access, via sandbox or virtual machine.  Neither of which (despite what bioware/EA wants you to think) is illegal.  It doesn't circumvent anything it simply limites the access that chosen programs have access to your computer.  A virtual machine is even moreso not illegal because for all intents and purposes you are simply putting Origin on a blank machine and there is nothing else there. 

[Wardka]

Abirn wrote...
That is why you limit it's access ...

No, it is why you (or I, at least) do not install Origin at all. If I agree to Origin's EULA and give EA money for a product that contains Origin, then that shows I accept their actions, which I most certainly do not. That's treating the symptoms, not the cause, which is their belief that my data = their data. A sale is a sale, and I will not give them that. As much as I'd like to see the end of Shepard's adventures, that isn't remotely as important to me as protecting my right to privacy and security.

[wolfsite]

Wardka wrote...

Abirn wrote...
That is why you limit it's access ...

No, it is why you (or I, at least) do not install Origin at all. If I agree to Origin's EULA and give EA money for a product that contains Origin, then that shows I accept their actions, which I most certainly do not. That's treating the symptoms, not the cause, which is their belief that my data = their data. A sale is a sale, and I will not give them that. As much as I'd like to see the end of Shepard's adventures, that isn't remotely as important to me as protecting my right to privacy and security.

I've been running Origin on a process monitor for a while now to see what it does.  Frankly over the past while it has become less and less intrusive.

The past few days all Origin did was check

\\program files
\\program files\\origin
\\program files\\origin\\origin.exe
\\program files\\origin\\EAcorp_app.exe

It doesn't even go into windows anymore (It did in a previous version) and this is pretty much on par with how Steam goes into your computer.

[Killjoy Cutter]

Wardka wrote...

Abirn wrote...

That is why you limit it's access ...

No, it is why you (or I, at least) do not install Origin at all. If I agree to Origin's EULA and give EA money for a product that contains Origin, then that shows I accept their actions, which I most certainly do not. That's treating the symptoms, not the cause, which is their belief that my data = their data. A sale is a sale, and I will not give them that. As much as I'd like to see the end of Shepard's adventures, that isn't remotely as important to me as protecting my right to privacy and security.

Exactly.

By installing Origin and agreeing to the EULA for Origin, you are telling EA that you accept and support their actions. 

The only things that will make Origin go away are legal trouble for EA, or sales trouble for EA. 

[Mikey_205]

Unfair Terms of Use in the UK if you want it taken out: http://www.oft.gov.u...erms/oft311.pdf

[eyesofastorm]

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

Wardka wrote...

Abirn wrote...

That is why you limit it's access ...

No, it is why you (or I, at least) do not install Origin at all. If I agree to Origin's EULA and give EA money for a product that contains Origin, then that shows I accept their actions, which I most certainly do not. That's treating the symptoms, not the cause, which is their belief that my data = their data. A sale is a sale, and I will not give them that. As much as I'd like to see the end of Shepard's adventures, that isn't remotely as important to me as protecting my right to privacy and security.

Exactly.

By installing Origin and agreeing to the EULA for Origin, you are telling EA that you accept and support their actions. 

The only things that will make Origin go away are legal trouble for EA, or sales trouble for EA. 

And they won't have to worry about the legal trouble because part of the ToS is you waiving your right to legal recourse.  Insanity.

[wolfsite]

eyesofastorm wrote...

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

Wardka wrote...

Abirn wrote...

That is why you limit it's access ...

No, it is why you (or I, at least) do not install Origin at all. If I agree to Origin's EULA and give EA money for a product that contains Origin, then that shows I accept their actions, which I most certainly do not. That's treating the symptoms, not the cause, which is their belief that my data = their data. A sale is a sale, and I will not give them that. As much as I'd like to see the end of Shepard's adventures, that isn't remotely as important to me as protecting my right to privacy and security.

Exactly.

By installing Origin and agreeing to the EULA for Origin, you are telling EA that you accept and support their actions. 

The only things that will make Origin go away are legal trouble for EA, or sales trouble for EA. 

And they won't have to worry about the legal trouble because part of the ToS is you waiving your right to legal recourse.  Insanity.

This is becoming standard in TOS.  Sony had it before EA, and before that many Mobile device companies added it to there TOS.

Note this is mostly for class action suits you can still pursue legal action against a company if you feel your rights have been violated and I believe Sony is in the court system right now about if the class action waiver can be considered precendent (If Sony gets struck down that could have a dramatic affect on TOS wording).

[Killjoy Cutter]

True, a judge can always rule that the clause was invalid...

[Pupuppu]

wolfsite wrote...

I've been running Origin on a process monitor for a while now to see what it does.  Frankly over the past while it has become less and less intrusive.

The past few days all Origin did was check

program files
program filesorigin
program filesoriginorigin.exe
program filesoriginEAcorp_app.exe

It doesn't even go into windows anymore (It did in a previous version) and this is pretty much on par with how Steam goes into your computer.

The initial reports after the Origin release is what you report and this is well documented. EA blamed it on poor programming on their part and the Windows operating system and promised to fix this what they obviously did (for now)
Still Origin connects to various destinations on the internet to provide it's "services", including the Adobe Digital Marketing Suite Provider and others like Amazon, Akamai, Digitalriver and one host which actually belongs to an assigned EA network.
It looks like a whole lot of services are outsourced and everyone runs their own privacy policy.

[craigdolphin]

Hypothetically speaking, I would prefer Origin as EA's first party client compared to a third party DRM solution like SecuROM. However, much depends on how it is implemented. E.g., whether it has an offline mode like steam, what restrictions they apply to the games, and whether they have a planned sunsetting policy for those restrictions.

However, the TOS/EULA for Origin concern me a lot. I want to be assured that the only files/folders being scanned are specific to EA games that I've purchased, or to generalized summary system capabilities (RAM, CPU, GPU etc). Specifically, the EULA should be worded such that scanning anything else on my HD is forbidden without my explicit permission. I also would like to know that the terms I agree to now will not be altered without my permission, and there should be a guaranteed refund of the full puchase price if I refuse to agree to future changes and they then subsequently remove my ability to play the game I paid for.

I would also like the ability to log and read all communications between origin and EA's servers to verify that nothing untoward is being done using this 'potential spyware' client.